10 Road/Street Courses

[Napoleon]

This is the companion thread to nrc's on having to pick 10 ovals for a reunified series.

What are the 10 road/street races?

Cleveland
Road America
Toronto
Australia
Mid-Ohio
Long Beach
Laguna
Portland
Vancover
one of the Mexican circuits

[jonovision_man]

This is the companion thread to nrc's on having to pick 10 ovals for a reunified series.

What are the 10 road/street races?

Cleveland
Road America
Toronto
Australia
Mid-Ohio
Long Beach
Laguna
Portland
Vancover
one of the Mexican circuits

Vancouver? :P Good crowds, horrible circuit. I heard that the Olympics are going to result in development around where the Indy is currently held, possibly interefering with the track.

I like the rest of your choices, though. I'd swap Vancouver for Montreal (sorry left-coasters). Or race at RA twice. :)

[RaceGrrl]

Forsythe would insist on having the Mexican races. You can't alienate that segment of the ChampCar fanbase. Too big a demographic to ignore.

[KobySon]

Forsythe would insist on having the Mexican races. You can't alienate that segment of the ChampCar fanbase. Too big a demographic to ignore.

yep.

From a business stand point, laguna and RA would be cut in my book. M-O too, unfortunately, unless they can somehow get Miller, Marlboro and homoco sponsorship back, which is doubtful, even if unified.

Edit: I was thinking RA and typing Vancouver before... just to be clear, from a business standpoint:

Without major sponsors, the natural road courses can't pay for themselves. I'm not of the opinion that a unified series will return sponsors.

[j_d]

I think the 10 that would make the most sense (not necessarily carry the most sentiment) would be:

Long Beach
Both Mexican races
Toronto
Australia
RA
Cleveland
St. Pete
Montreal
Vancouver

[RichK]

Long Beach
Road America
Mid Ohio
Laguna Seca
Portland
Mexico City
Montreal
Toronto
Surfers Paradise
Cleveland

Although the attendance is big, I don't like the Monterrey track at all.

[Ankf00]

RA, portland, barber, monterrey, mexico city, LB, surfers, toronto, montreal, st pete

[rabbit]

Both Mexican
All three Canadian
Oz
Road America
Cleveland
Long Beach
Mid-Ohio

[Car-B-Q]

Both Mexican
All three Canadian
Oz
Road America
Cleveland
Long Beach
Mid-OhioThat sounds about the right mix (only if MO gets their act together).

[pchall]

That sounds about the right mix (only if MO gets their act together).

Maybe Michelle can go into exile along with Tony? :gomer:

[nissan gtp]

Long Beach ... road 1 / road racing triple crown
Monterrey
Portland
Cleveland ... road 2
Toronto
Road America ... road 3
Denver
Montreal
Laguna
Surfer's
Mexico City
Mid Ohio
Brands Hatch

oops. that's more than 10. Too bad, fewer ovals.

Indy ... 500/1 ... oval Triple crown
Michigan ... 500/2
Fontanauky ... 500/3
Milwaukee
Brazil
Richmond
Kansas City


ahhh good. that's 20.
:D :thumbup:

[Railbird]

I love RA, MO and Road Atlanta (I know they don't run there).

The problem is who is going to foot the bill at such out-of-the way places?

Without the manufactures to promote the classic courses they will be cut out of any combined series.

The money makers in Mexico and Canada are a lock as is Surfers as long as the bucks keep flowing.

Long Beach and maybe Clevelnd make the cut.

The rest of the street courses will live or die with local political support.

Do you whore the series out to the manufactures in order to save the natural roadcourses or do you try to restore it through profitable events in an attempt to attract a suger daddy series sponsor?

[RTKar]

Railbird, "I love RA, MO and Road Atlanta (I know they don't run there).

The problem is who is going to foot the bill at such out-of-the way places?

Without the manufactures to promote the classic courses they will be cut out of any combined series.

The money makers in Mexico and Canada are a lock as is Surfers as long as the bucks keep flowing.

Long Beach and maybe Clevelnd make the cut.

The rest of the street courses will live or die with local political support.

Do you whore the series out to the manufactures in order to save the natural roadcourses or do you try to restore it through profitable events in an attempt to attract a suger daddy series sponsor?"


My guess is the level of interest in the series for many fans will fall on the decisions made in the next year, maybe two. Can enough new fans be generated to offset those that move on? With alternatives like F1 and ALMS the upcoming decisions are critical even for some of the most ardent current supporters of CART/Champcar.

[FanofMario]

From Nissan GTP:
"Long Beach ... road 1 / road racing triple crown
Monterrey
Portland
Cleveland ... road 2
Toronto
Road America ... road 3
Denver
Montreal
Laguna
Surfer's
Mexico City
Mid Ohio
Brands Hatch

oops. that's more than 10. Too bad, fewer ovals.

Indy ... 500/1 ... oval Triple crown
Michigan ... 500/2
Fontanauky ... 500/3
Milwaukee
Brazil
Richmond
Kansas City"

I like the number, but I have issues with some of these.
Denver just absolutely blows chunks and Brands Hatch was too narrow---especially the pit lane. Why not go to Spa instead of Brands?
Richmond is too little for Champ cars IMO. I would rather see the northeast get Nazerath back or Loudon. How come no German oval? If you want to go to Europe you would think you would go back to a successful oval there.

[nissan gtp]

From Nissan GTP:
"Long Beach ... road 1 / road racing triple crown
Monterrey
Portland
Cleveland ... road 2
Toronto
Road America ... road 3
Denver
Montreal
Laguna
Surfer's
Mexico City
Mid Ohio
Brands Hatch

oops. that's more than 10. Too bad, fewer ovals.

Indy ... 500/1 ... oval Triple crown
Michigan ... 500/2
Fontanauky ... 500/3
Milwaukee
Brazil
Richmond
Kansas City"

I like the number, but I have issues with some of these.
Denver just absolutely blows chunks and Brands Hatch was too narrow---especially the pit lane. Why not go to Spa instead of Brands?
Richmond is too little for Champ cars IMO. I would rather see the northeast get Nazerath back or Loudon. How come no German oval? If you want to go to Europe you would think you would go back to a successful oval there.

no biggie disagreement with you ... Denver is an important market with an improving event ... now that Brands dodged the bulldozers and developers, it's the best option in England (Spa would be great, but very doubtful... Estoril could work) the Lausitz oval should be on the list but with another Euro race for cost-sharing ... and Richmond is 50 miles from my house :D .

[devilmaster]

oops. that's more than 10. Too bad, fewer ovals.


This is one of the major reasons why a deal probably won't and shouldn't be worked out.

There was always the debate of schedule changes......

I assume the talk of 10 ovals and 10 road courses is to ensure that no one can claim 'victory' (whatever victory would mean in this stupid war).

Problem is, would you drop a decently successful road course so that Homestead can still have its 10000 people on race day? There really isn't 10 ovals in the US that can claim to have good enough support. If you stretch the oval bit, throw in the Brazilian roval, and maybe the Brit Rockingham, now you only need 7 ovals stateside. But even then, I still have problems coming up with 7 good ovals.

Steve

[cartmanoz]

Canada
Montreal
Toronto

Mexico
Monterrey
Mexico City

Australia

USA
Road America
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Cleveland
Mid-Ohio
Portland

If there is eventually a European swing, I'd like to see Laustiz oval and Spa-Francorchamps. If there is a return to Brands Hatch, only on the full grand prix circuit.

[Racing Truth]

Laguna is a beautiful track, great tradition, but it MAY be time to part with it.

Sadly, Indy/Champcars (or whatever a unified series would call them) have outgrown it, and the place doesn't draw anymore. Similar arguments could be made with M-O of course, but I still think it could work. RA might not draw, but it's too d@mn good to leave.

Dump Denver and Miami. Bad circuits (esp. Denver). Vancouver might as well go away now b/c, as I understand it, it won't be around much longer due to the 2010 Olympics.

So, what do we have left? In no particular order

RA
MO
Cleveland
Long Beach
Toronto
Mexico City
Portland
St. Pete (yeah, I know there are issues here)
Surfer's
Montreal

Reasonable, I think. Best part is, all good circuits, IMHO.

[cart7]

My list:

Cleveland
Road America
Toronto
Australia
Mid-Ohio
Long Beach
Laguna
Portland
Montreal
Surfers
Both Mexican races.

Sorry, dump a couple ovals. :cool: