View Full Version : ALMS from MO on the tube today
Railbird
06-27-04, 09:19 AM
ALMS (http://www.americanlemans.com/home/index.aspx)
Would have been a good weekend for camping at Mid Ohio but at least I'll have something to watch while working around the house today. First event since Sebring and we Champcar fans think the gaps in the OWRS schedule are too large.
The somewhat disappointing lineup:
1. James Weaver, England; Butch Leitzinger, State College, PA; Lola EX257-AER/MG (LMP1), :12.123, 112.707 mph.
2. Marco Werner, Germany; JJ Lehto, Finland; Audi R8 (LMP1), 1:12.184, 112,612.
3. Chris Dyson, Pleasant Valley, NY; Andy Wallace, England; Lola EX 257-AER/MG(LMP1), 1:12.372, 112.320.
4. Jeff Bucknum, Lake Havasu City, AZ; Chris McMurry, Phoenix, AZ; Bryan Willman, Kirkland, WA; Pilbeam MP91-Nissan (LMP2), 1:17.246, 105.233.
5. Oliver Gavin, England; Olivier Beretta, Monaco; Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (GTS), 1:18.622, 103.391.
6. Ron Fellows, Canada; Johnny O'Connell, Flowery Branch, GA; Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (GTS), 1:19.148, 102.704.
7. Terry Borcheller, Gainesville, GA; Johnny Mowlem, England; Saleen S7R (GTS), 1:19.686, 102.010.
8. Clint Field, Dublin, OH; Robin Liddell, Scotland; Lola B2K/40-Judd (LMP2), 1:19.855, 101.795.
9. John Macaluso, Winter Haven, FL; Ian James, England; James Gue, Athens, GA; Lola B2K/40-Nissan (LMP2), 1:20.465, 101.023.
10. Tom Weickardt, Whitefish Bay, WI; Jean-Philippe Belloc, France; Dodge Viper GTS-R (GTS), 1:21.515, 99.722.
11. David Brabham, Australia; Peter Kox, The Netherlands; Lamborghini Murcielogo R-GT (GTS), 1:21.695, 99.502.
12. Timo Bernhard, Germany; Jorg Bergmeister, Germany; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:22.909, 98.045.
13. Gunnar Jeannette, Palm Beach Gardens, FL; David Saelens, Belgium; Panoz Esperante GT-LM (GT), 1:23.583, 97.254.
14. Marc Lieb, Germany; Romain Dumas, France; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:23.588, 97.248.
15. Johannes van Overbeek, San Francisco, CA; Darren Law, Phoenix, AZ; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:23.633, 97.196.
16. David Murry, Cumming, GA; Craig Stanton, Long Beach, CA; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:23.728, 97.086.
17. Justin Jackson, Buford, GA; Tim Sudgen, England; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:23.942, 96.838.
18. Lonnie Pechnik, Pacific Grove, CA; Seth Neiman, Burlingame, CA; Porsche 911 GT3 RS (GT), 1:23.975, 96.800.
19. Patrick Long, Oak Park, CA; Cort Wagner, Pacific Palisades, CA; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:24.061, 96.701.
20. Ralf Kelleners, Germany; Anthony Lazzaro, Acworth, GA; Ferrari 360 Modena (GT), 1:24.238, 96.498.
21. Pierre Ehret, Santa Rosa, CA; Jim Matthews, Boca Raton, FL; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:24.984, 95.651.
22. Peter Boss, Naragansett, RI; Hugh Plumb, Chadds Ford, PA; Porsche 911 GT3 RS (GT), 1:25.214, 95.393.
23. Leo Hindery, New York, NY; Peter Baron, Deerfield Beach, FL; Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (GT), 1:25.710, 94.841.
24. Eric Van der Steur, Spartanburg, SC; Gunnar Van der Steur, Chesapeake City, MD; Lola B2K/40-Nissan (LMP2), no speed.
25. Andy Lally, New York, NY; Ryan Eversley, Winder, GA; Lola B2K/40-Nissan (LMP2), no speed.
26. Jon Field, Dublin, OH; Duncan Dayton, North Salem, NY; Lola B160-Judd (LMP1), no speed.
4 LMP1
5 LMP2
5 GTS
12 GT
No Ferraris
no competition in the GTS division. not sure about the others though. I usually watch ALMS to see how Ron Fellows is doing.
no competition in the GTS division. not sure about the others though. I usually watch ALMS to see how Ron Fellows is doing.
The dissapointint ALMS fields are keeping me away today. The only reason I could have to show up would be to kick Michelle Gajocky @$$ up and down Thunder Alley for what she has and hasn't done for road racing at my home track.
After a moment's reflection I'd have to be kicking Don Panoz through Madness and the Esses for what he has done to sportscar racing in North America. Hooking up with the Euro tradition of long distance sportcar racing was a noble thought, but a failure since it meant lining up all the marbles with one race in another world. For some stupid reason Panoz is hooked on LeMans like Penske is on Indy.
Can you imagine what the crowd would be at Mid-Ohio if the field in the main event had 20+ cars about the size and wieght of LPM 675s powered by unrestricted 7.0l OHV V8s and an bunch of unrestricted 3.5l twin turbos? :eek:
Jag_Warrior
06-27-04, 12:25 PM
Can you imagine what the crowd would be at Mid-Ohio if the field in the main event had 20+ cars about the size and wieght of LPM 675s powered by unrestricted 7.0l OHV V8s and an bunch of unrestricted 3.5l twin turbos? :eek:
I really thought things would work out for ALMS. Especially when the FIA seemed to be on board with the ACO. But no one is building/buying cars to the revised specs. I guess there's not much demand in the U.S. for "prototypes" that don't have a NASCAR quotient = Grand Am (no crowds but plenty of "prototypes").
Well, there's always Historics...
I really thought things would work out for ALMS. Especially when the FIA seemed to be on board with the ACO. But no one is building/buying cars to the revised specs. I guess there's not much demand in the U.S. for "prototypes" that don't have a NASCAR quotient = Grand Am (no crowds but plenty of "prototypes").
Well, there's always Historics...
The stupid part is the ACO 24 Hour race car requirements really seem to make a two hour sprint race in North America an impossibility.
Here I sit, dreaming of winning the lottery and getting a Lola (not sold by Carl Haas) and a Traco 7.0l Chevy and showing them how it is done.
The Doctor
06-27-04, 01:51 PM
I'm still holding out hope...
Hopefully if Audi ever builds the R5 and if the Aston-Martin and Maserati programs get it together and get to the ALMS things will improve. Sad to see no Ferraris, but it's a real transition year for the Ferrari program so next year should hopefully see a return of the real Ferrari vs. Corvette battle. GT would be nice if there was something competitive other than the RSR, but still a number of good duels among the various GT teams. Overall, though, the racing is still good in all the classes... just needs more competition in each class.
Again, hope upon hope that the prototype rules take off in the next year and more people build some LMP1 cars... and hopefully the FIA and ACO don't slaughter the GTS class in the near future when they review the regs because of the Maserati supercar.
This series is dead. For sports car racing go see Grand-Am. Funny how things change, eh?
^ Are you quoting Doc Austin? :thumdown:
Railbird
06-27-04, 02:34 PM
ALMS certainly isn't healthy but niether are they a tube frame spec series masquerading as prototypes.
Jag_Warrior
06-27-04, 02:46 PM
This series is dead. For sports car racing go see Grand-Am.
Oh. Well, if that's the case, then sports car racing is well and truly dead. Grand Am is another answer to a question that no one asked.
I hate the Daytona Prototypes, but you can't argue the fact that the grids are healthy with good quality teams and drivers. Of course you have some punters like Milka Dunno, but that is something that always goes with sportscar racing. Grand-Am is a good series, I just hope they don't try and make it too American with the proposed American GT deal using Nascar technology. :rolleyes:
I love the Audi that races in AMLS, but 1 Audi and 2 Dyson Lolas is not a race. I wish the Courages, Pescarolos, Domes and others would show up, but unfortanetly, they don't...... :shakehead
Coldfart
06-27-04, 04:19 PM
I hate the Daytona Prototypes
To steal Conan O'Brien's 'If They Mated':
http://atlantmotors.by/images/volkswagen%20beetle.jpg
+
http://www.classicchevytrucks2.20m.com/81%20el-camino%20rood.jpg
=
http://www.speedonline.com.br/fotos/24daytona03-carro59.jpg
Railbird
06-27-04, 04:36 PM
Well hell, enjoy Fio.
Make sure and check back with us when they make those sleds smaller, lighter and quicker. Considering who is running that series though I'm afraid we won't be hearing back from you for quite a while.
Sean O'Gorman
06-27-04, 07:01 PM
Just got home.
For the most part, that race was pathetic. When a Corvette is third overall by the end of the second lap, you know your series is in trouble. Dumb dumb dumb Don Panoz. I've been saying it for two years now but all I got was "Grand-Am shill Sean, shut up, etc." Is there something about being involved in professional road racing that makes you not able to see the big picture when it comes to business? :saywhat: Seriously.
On the plus side, World Challenge GT was an awesome race, and so was Spec Miata, but for all the wrong reasons. There were cars piling up on the front stretch by lap 1! Alot of carnage, some good moves, I'd do it in a second if I were to start road racing.
Also, while this is partly a sign of how pathetic things are in ALMS, my friend Ryan Eversley ended up second in LMP2 and 12th overall (ran high as 7th) in his first race, despite barely being able to turn a lap all weekend. His story is very inspiring, he crewed for various teams the past few years just hoping to be able to get some seat time. He did a Grand-Am Cup race last year, some F. Mazda races, and now this. He has two more ALMS races this year. Oh yeah, did I mention hes only 20, and didn't have to buy any of his rides? :thumbup: to him.
Its too bad I didn't run into anyone from OC this weekend. I guess the closest I came to that was when I saw our former resident anti-American wandering the paddock aimlessly. No surprise that her crooked glasses were as thick as her fat head. :laugh:
Jag_Warrior
06-27-04, 08:26 PM
"Grand-Am shill Sean, shut up, etc." Is there something about being involved in professional road racing that makes you not able to see the big picture when it comes to business? :saywhat: Seriously.
Its too bad I didn't run into anyone from OC this weekend. I guess the closest I came to that was when I saw our former resident anti-American wandering the paddock aimlessly. No surprise that her crooked glasses were as thick as her fat head. :laugh:
Huh? Resident anti-American? :confused: Just the initials.
Oh yeah, "Grand-Am shill Sean, shut up, etc." :laugh:
I just got home from MO. Granted, the ALMS race was down on number, but it's still better than Grand-Am. The Lamborghini with Brabham & Cox finished a respectable 3rd in GTS, behind the 2 Corvettes, 8th overall. I won't be going to MO for the G-A "race," it's a matter of being consistent.....
Grand-Am is to ALMS what IRL is to OWRS.
Also, while this is partly a sign of how pathetic things are in ALMS, my friend Ryan Eversley ended up second in LMP2 and 12th overall (ran high as 7th) in his first race, despite barely being able to turn a lap all weekend. His story is very inspiring, he crewed for various teams the past few years just hoping to be able to get some seat time. He did a Grand-Am Cup race last year, some F. Mazda races, and now this. He has two more ALMS races this year. Oh yeah, did I mention hes only 20, and didn't have to buy any of his rides? :thumbup: to him.
Great for Ryan. He drove my son Chris' Formula Mazda earlier this year (his first race in an actual car!)
Its too bad I didn't run into anyone from OC this weekend. I guess the closest I came to that was when I saw our former resident anti-American wandering the paddock aimlessly. No surprise that her crooked glasses were as thick as her fat head. :laugh:
Got be Liz/Kate/Krusty? was she chasing young factory Porsche drivers around? :rofl:
Sean O'Gorman
06-27-04, 09:34 PM
Got be Liz/Kate/Krusty? was she chasing young factory Porsche drivers around? :rofl:
She seemed to be too confused to find the Porsche drivers. I guess that she lost her seeing eye dog! :laugh:
Turbos 4 Life
06-27-04, 09:38 PM
Yeah, unfortunately the ALMS is in BIG trouble. 4 cars in the premiere class does not a series make. The funny thing is, over on the other side of the big pond the fields are full. Monza had quite a few protos in the opening round of the LMES. Now try this on. One series split between Europe and America. The season starts in Sebring then runs one more race in the States, say Laguna. Then across the waters for LeMans Test Day. After that run two races. Say Spa and Monza. Then the 24 and back across the pond to the U.S. Run three or four races, ending with Petite. Back to Europe for Silverstone and Nurbergring to end the season. Make teams commit to doing the whole season, with exceptions when a car is totalled. It's gonna be expensive with the travel, sure, but I don't know of any sportscar teams that actually make $$$. Ever see what the purse structures are for the ALMS? Do they even pay prize money? I'll still watch because the cars are soooo beautiful but for action on the track I'm gonna go with the Rolex series. The watkins Glen race was crazy. I guarantee the Mid-Ohio GrandAm race will be better than the ALMS race. Sorry, that's how I see it.
Sean O'Gorman
06-27-04, 09:40 PM
I just got home from MO. Granted, the ALMS race was down on number, but it's still better than Grand-Am. The Lamborghini with Brabham & Cox finished a respectable 3rd in GTS, behind the 2 Corvettes, 8th overall. I won't be going to MO for the G-A "race," it's a matter of being consistent.....
Grand-Am is to ALMS what IRL is to OWRS.
How is it better than Grand-Am? Because the cars look prettier?
I'll give you that they are ugly, and the diversity when it comes to cars, engines, and courses leaves alot to be desired, but IMHO it all comes down to competition. I'd rather see 15 Daytona Prototypes stocked with pro drivers with better on track action than a series that looks more like a parade or a car show. Honestly, the DPs don't look noticably slower than the LMPs, at least not at Mid-Ohio.
I like the emphasis on the drivers. Think about a Grand-Am race, and you think Pruett, Donohue, Haywood, Leitzinger, Papis :thumdown:, etc. When you ask any ALMS fan what they are looking forward to on a particular race weekend, its usually some expensive and uncompetitive car that'll probably break in the first half hour.
Something thats always bugged me is when you watch a race, and its like "Audi passes Dyson!" or "Corvette wins!" I know sports car racing is more about the car than other forms of racing, but the driver is practically irrelevent to the ALMS fan.
Sean O'Gorman
06-27-04, 09:46 PM
Great for Ryan. He drove my son Chris' Formula Mazda earlier this year (his first race in an actual car!)
Oops, I missed this comment the first time around, it got stuck in my quote.
I didn't realize Ryan drove a F. Mazda this year, I know he had at least one race last year. He actually went into this year with prospects for driving pretty bleak, so he decided to concentrate on crewing and before you know it, this opportunity came up! He seemed to hold his own during his stint, something happened right after the driver change and he had to pit again, but he was running just ahead of the American Spirit car throughout the stint. I'd say that was pretty good considering his only laps on Friday were with the car stuck in one gear, and I don't think he got any track time on Saturday. Race Car Company is a very low budget team (Lally doesn't bring money either) and I'm assuming they didn't put in much track time because of the costs related to lapping.
I missed him at the podium, but I saw it on the TV screen (I will give ALMS two :thumbup: :thumbup: for turning those scoreboards into TV screens with timing at the top, it makes watching a sports car race easier than ever). It was so wierd to think he was the kid I was raising hell with on the ALMS forums just five years ago. :D
Oops, I missed this comment the first time around, it got stuck in my quote.
I didn't realize Ryan drove a F. Mazda this year, I know he had at least one race last year. He actually went into this year with prospects for driving pretty bleak, so he decided to concentrate on crewing and before you know it, this opportunity came up! He seemed to hold his own during his stint, something happened right after the driver change and he had to pit again, but he was running just ahead of the American Spirit car throughout the stint. I'd say that was pretty good considering his only laps on Friday were with the car stuck in one gear, and I don't think he got any track time on Saturday. Race Car Company is a very low budget team (Lally doesn't bring money either) and I'm assuming they didn't put in much track time because of the costs related to lapping.
I missed him at the podium, but I saw it on the TV screen (I will give ALMS two :thumbup: :thumbup: for turning those scoreboards into TV screens with timing at the top, it makes watching a sports car race easier than ever). It was so wierd to think he was the kid I was raising hell with on the ALMS forums just five years ago. :D
Sorry, you are right. It was last year not this year at Sears Point. I really should have had the time right as I worked on the car all weekend and towed it there. :gomer:
Jag_Warrior
06-28-04, 07:16 AM
I just got home from MO. Granted, the ALMS race was down on number, but it's still better than Grand-Am. The Lamborghini with Brabham & Cox finished a respectable 3rd in GTS, behind the 2 Corvettes, 8th overall. I won't be going to MO for the G-A "race," it's a matter of being consistent.....
Grand-Am is to ALMS what IRL is to OWRS.
I agree. I've been to one Grand Am race and I felt that was one too many. I find Spec Racer Fords put on as good a "prototype" show as anything Grand Am DP's have. If I want to see "prototype stock cars", I'll go to a Nextel Cup race. Speaking of which.... who does Jeff Gordon think he is, Michael Schumacher?! Helluva drive yesterday! :thumbup:
I agree. I've been to one Grand Am race and I felt that was one too many. I find Spec Racer Fords put on as good a "prototype" show as anything Grand Am DP's have. If I want to see "prototype stock cars", I'll go to a Nextel Cup race. Speaking of which.... who does Jeff Gordon think he is, Michael Schumacher?! Helluva drive yesterday! :thumbup:
Grand Am makes the early 90s "Humpy GTP" idea look brilliant.
I'll give you that they are ugly, and the diversity when it comes to cars, engines, and courses leaves alot to be desired, but IMHO it all comes down to competition.
I agree. We may not think the cars are that great looking, and can we can wish for more mechanical pluralism, but right now Grand Am is putting cars on the track and ALMS is not. Grand Am had, what, 17 DP's for their race at Watkins Glen and more are coming for next year.
Say you wanted to entire one of the 2 premier endurance races in 2005. Right now you can purchase a DP that is capable of winning the 24 hours of Daytona at a fairly reasonable price. However, Audi R8s are a lot harder to come by and you can't win without one.
From a purely technical point of view I prefer LMPs. But they are becoming a rare breed while more and more DPs are coming out of the shops. I take issue with a some things Grand Am does. But I must give them their due of producing a competitive series with large fields and potential winners.
The number 1 reason why the AMLS race sucked at Mid Ohio? Because Boris Said wasn't racing in it! If there's a sports car/ Sedan race in America worth a s****e, then Boris Said would be in it! :laugh:
Railbird
06-29-04, 07:46 AM
Boris was off rubbin' fenders in the premiere tube frame spec series.
The somewhat disappointing lineup:
20. Ralf Kelleners, Germany; Anthony Lazzaro, Acworth, GA; Ferrari 360 Modena (GT), 1:24.238, 96.498.
No Ferraris
Or did you mean the 550 or 575?
Steve99
06-30-04, 12:21 PM
No Ferrari GTS cars to fight with the Corvettes. Are the Ferrari GTS cars racing in Europe this year?
I would find GrandAm more watchable if they would stop screwing up the GT classes. It would be fun to see the C5R racing with the prototypes. Now the GT cars can just be tube-framed with a body thrown on (link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/roadracing/10948/) ). :shakehead
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