View Full Version : Will Brian B. give Chevy more oomph?
The darkside is already talking about it and the season hasn't even started yet.:rofl: :gomer: :rofl:
NO. And you probably noticed that almost everyone thought it was a bad idea.
In response to a flury of outcry from teams and drivers running Chevrolet engines for the 2003 IRL season, the IRL has mandated a new rear wing for Toyota and Honda powered cars which will be implimented at the season-opener at Homestead. OffCamber.net has obtained exclusive photos of the wing being tested at Phoenix by Toyota driver Tora Takagi.
http://marcbreuers.homestead.com/files/imscf2906.jpg
mnkywrch
02-10-03, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by RTKar
The darkside is already talking about it and the season hasn't even started yet.:rofl: :gomer: :rofl:
Yes, it's quite a discussion.
One guy likes (http://66.223.17.243/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=023981) the idea, the others are shouting him down.
Yep, that's how the "darkside" feels.... :rolleyes:
Why has everyone over there got their panties in a wad, wrnch?
Haven't they heard of nitrous oxide? :D
Hey, I just think it's funny the idea comes up at all. In all the years of multiple engine manufacturers in CART, I've never heard the idea proposed by a fan. What I'm sensing from irl fans is some, and possibly growing, dissolution in the direction of the series. If it's true that Chevy will be down on power and Hornisch can't compete up front, how long will it be before Penske and Floyd are blamed for controlling the manufacturers and receiving preferential treatment?
1st session at Homestead, RT.
Originally posted by JT265
1st session at Homestead, RT. http://indyracing.artemisimages.com/viewbig.asp?id=imscf2906
mnkywrch
02-10-03, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by RTKar
Hey, I just think it's funny the idea comes up at all. In all the years of multiple engine manufacturers in CART, I've never heard the idea proposed by a fan. What I'm sensing from irl fans is some, and possibly growing, dissolution in the direction of the series.
I've been sensing that for two years.
Originally posted by RTKar
What I'm sensing from irl fans is some, and possibly growing, dissolution in the direction of the series.
I agree. I am also sensing this from CART fans.
racer2c
02-12-03, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by JSR
I agree. I am also sensing this from CART fans.
Strange, I've been on CART forums for many years now and this year there is more of a positive vibe than I an remember since the Zanardi days.
Originally posted by racer2c
Strange, I've been on CART forums for many years now and this year there is more of a positive vibe than I an remember since the Zanardi days.
I have not been on CART forums for many years. But I have seen posts of "some" CART fans not happy with the current direction of CART. Subjects that I have noticed this in:
To many city street courses
Possible loss of Road America
Not enough ovals
Specford
Loss of the "Stars"
"F1 feeder series"
Now remember the original quote that I based my statement on was that "some" fans didn't like the direction of the series.
Those threads for the most part were not started by CART fans. Since you admit that you haven't been around for a long time, you need to realize that there are many IRL fans that pose as CART fans and initiate negative responses on CART forums.
Are some of those issues that you mention valid, sure somewhat. Are they things that will make the CART fan leave the series for the IRL? No.
Originally posted by Turn7
Are some of those issues that you mention valid, sure somewhat. Are they things that will make the CART fan leave the series for the IRL? No.
I never said anything about CART fans becoming IRL fans. Just that "some" CART fans didn't like the direction of the series.
Originally posted by JSR
I never said anything about CART fans becoming IRL fans. Just that "some" CART fans didn't like the direction of the series.
You mean C^RT 'fans' like Brickman?
Originally posted by mapguy
You mean C^RT 'fans' like Brickman?
Does anyone here think that ALL CART fans like the direction of the series?
or
That ALL IRL fans like the direction it is heading in?
Originally posted by JSR
Does anyone here think that ALL CART fans like the direction of the series?
or
That ALL IRL fans like the direction it is heading in?
Honestly, from what I have read here, on 7G and on TF I would say that more C^RT fans like where their series is headed as opposed to the IRL.
Originally posted by mapguy
Honestly, from what I have read here, on 7G and on TF I would say that more C^RT fans like where their series is headed as opposed to the IRL.
I am a member of those 2 sites as well. I think I would definately agree with you on this statement. JMO of course.
Originally posted by JSR
Does anyone here think that ALL CART fans like the direction of the series?
or
That ALL IRL fans like the direction it is heading in?
That depends on your definition of the word "is".
Originally posted by JSR
I am a member of those 2 sites as well. I think I would definately agree with you on this statement. JMO of course.
Our opinions don't amount to a hill of beans. You can buy me a beer for giving you my marvelous insight... :D
Right now there's a 5 page thread going on none other than JJ Yeley, next great white USAC hope to go fendered. One of the posters had this melt-down:
Maybe I'm speaking out of turn,but,I think it's time for those of us who are entirely disgusted with the direction of the IRL to wave it goodbye like we waved CART goodbye!The Indianapolis Euro Speedway is NOT going to change!It is a sellout organization that has an all encompassing inferiority complex!It has pandered to Eurocentric car owners,drivers,engine manufacturers,and has done the exact opposite of what its original stated objectives were!Tony George has only paid lip service to the American open wheel oval track racer,while jumping into bed with the very people that have ruined Indy car racing in the past!
Therefore,it is time for the rest of us to get up and leave!Let the Formula car niche folks have thier marginalized series of no name drivers!They are irrelevent!We need to bang the drum for a new vision of open wheel oval track racing!A series that can rightfully be called the upper echelon of open wheel oval track racing.A modern FE car,raced on various types of ovals.Ans COMPLETELY SEPERATE FROM THE INDIANAPOLIS EURO SPEEDWAY!I now know why the Gurney White Paper was written.I don't agree with its vision,but the salient issue of the Euro Speedway being the millstone around Indy car racings neck cannot be dismissed!
Hey Tony:If you were wondering why there are so many empty seats...It's about the cars,drivers,and cost
Indianapolis Euro Speedway.
:laugh:
I now know why the Gurney White Paper was written.I don't agree with its vision,but the salient issue of the Euro Speedway being the millstone around Indy car racings neck cannot be dismissed! I had to read that part twice just to make sure it said what I thought it said.:rofl:
tube frames is the answer, tube frames
Originally posted by rabbit
I had to read that part twice just to make sure it said what I thought it said.:rofl:
I did a double take on that line, too. For years I have said that IRL owners should have a laminated copy of the White Paper in their wallets for quick reference when things go awry in the IMS/IRL universe. I used to be hooted down at TF for such a suggestion: ni'ts nice to see the start to come around.
This is "Pure Speculation" but my spies tell me that in Homestead, the Bow ties will be replaced with this:
http://www.flexible-flyer.com/Menu/menu_r1_c6.jpg
:D
mexican
02-23-03, 05:39 AM
We need to bang the drum for a new vision of open wheel oval track racing!A series that can rightfully be called the upper echelon of open wheel oval track racing.
8 years later and I'm glad to see the "vision" is still plyable :p
TG has a ton of time on his hands to be able to post regularly at TF
mnkywrch
02-25-03, 05:05 PM
IRL won't change engine rules to aid underpowered Chevrolets
Indy Racing League competition boss Brian Barnhart said he will not help a lagging engine manufacturer with rule changes—can you say NASCAR?—but he will let the afflicted help itself. “We would allow for a resubmission of designs in the closed areas of development,” Barnhart said. “But we are not going to allow engine manufacturers to have different rev limits.” ...
Full Story (http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=motorsportsnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07373779)
Napoleon
02-25-03, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by mnkywrch
[B]IRL won't change engine rules to aid underpowered Chevrolets
Thats not exactly how I read that article. In fact it confirms as far as I am concerned that they are running things just like NASCAB. Everyone is bound by the design they submitted "in the closed areas of development", well except for Chevy which gets to play by a seperate set of rules. That is exactly what NASCAB does by suddenly allowing one car to increase its spoiler or what have you while other makes are forbidden to make the same changes.
But why do they worry about it Nap? It's really simple to bury a NOS button on the steering wheel, and of course it will pass tech.
Hell, ask ol' AJ for his rigging, now that he runs Yodas.
mnkywrch
02-25-03, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Napoleon
Thats not exactly how I read that article. In fact it confirms as far as I am concerned that they are running things just like NASCAB. Everyone is bound by the design they submitted "in the closed areas of development", well except for Chevy which gets to play by a seperate set of rules. That is exactly what NASCAB does by suddenly allowing one car to increase its spoiler or what have you while other makes are forbidden to make the same changes.
So Chevy's going to suddenly re-submit & manufacturer their engine before Homestead?
Where does it say that Honda & Toyota can't do the same?
It doesn't.
It's a huge difference, Nap.
Look, if they change the wing angles & rev limits for the Chevy teams, I'm with ya. But right now, I'm not.
“We would allow for a resubmission of designs in the closed areas of development,” Barnhart said. “But we are not going to allow engine manufacturers to have different rev limits."
Lemming logic will contend every manufacturer will get to resubmit designs in "closed areas of development."
They just won't acknowledge that Tony George and his minions can decide to approve only the changes they want for the manufacturer(s) they want to help.
Napoleon
02-26-03, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by mnkywrch
Where does it say that Honda & Toyota can't do the same?
Read the article, its a closed area of development. Therefore Honda and Toyota are not permitted to make any changes unless the rule is waived by the IRL.
Originally posted by pchall
Lemming logic will contend every manufacturer will get to resubmit designs in "closed areas of development."
They just won't acknowledge that Tony George and his minions can decide to approve only the changes they want for the manufacturer(s) they want to help.
That pretty much sums it up.
mnkywrch
02-26-03, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by pchall
Lemming logic will contend every manufacturer will get to resubmit designs in "closed areas of development."
They just won't acknowledge that Tony George and his minions can decide to approve only the changes they want for the manufacturer(s) they want to help.
Yes, that would be far worse than what what CART did with Spacer-Gate. Oh yeah, I forgot. CART does no wrong. They treat their manufacturers right. That's why two out of three of them liked CART so much they split for the IRL.
IIRC, and, no, I don't have an IRL rule book in front of me, "closed area of development" means that every engine of the same make has to have the same part - or at least access to the same part.
If you've got it elsewhere saying something else, let me know.
If the IRL screws Honda/Toyota by not allowing their changes, I'd agree with you guys. But they haven't, so I can't.
From this morning's USA Today article "CART defections change face of IRL IndyCar Series":
GM racing program manager Joe Negri "We've put together the resources we think is necessary to win this series."
racing speak:
Man, now I know what Ford was talking about. My bosses have given me a budget set in stone, they've told me they're not spending any more money on the irl program than before. If I can't produce results they're out.
from Eddie underaCheever: "I believe GM has been a little bit tepid in how it's approached this season. GM is half-way between where it was and where it needs to be."
racing speak:
Don't expect to see Buddy near the front like last year. Chevy will never catch-up now now's a good time to quit, I'm tired of being a back-marker.
from Hornish: "Chevy is doing everything it can to get more power everytime we got out."
racing speak:
We've turned every nut on the thing to get more power and nothings working. I've got DE Jr. on speed dial.
Originally posted by mnkywrch
[B]Yes, that would be far worse than what what CART did with Spacer-Gate. Oh yeah, I forgot. CART does no wrong. /B]
When cornered in an IRL argument, lash out at CART.
Hey, no need for the Chevy teams to worry. This is the IRL and anyone can get any piece of hardware, right? So if the Chevy is a slug the teams can simply purchase a Toyota or Honda (just like the kind Pimpske and Mikey have) at a league set price and go racing. Brian will make sure of it so even the little guy (who is what the IRL was made for) can get any engine for that low-low league price because the IRL is all about cost controls.
Yiseree, no need to worry. Tony and Brian have it all under control. They won't let those mfgs dictate anything or otherwise do what they did in CART when it came to engines and who got them.
mnkywrch
02-26-03, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by RichK
When cornered in an IRL argument, lash out at CART.
Cornered? Not likely.
But, but, but, the IRL has no idea how to run a series.
They should look up Georgetown Road for the right way to do things.
Matter of fact, they should fire Barnhardt. J. Kirk Russell will free them from the shackles of the engine manufacturers and lead them to the promised land of spec engines. :rolleyes:
Will Tony do what he wants? Sure.
Has he done anything yet on this issue to warrant the criticism you guys have given him on this issue? Nope.
Originally posted by DaveL
Hey, no need for the Chevy teams to worry. This is the IRL and anyone can get any piece of hardware, right? So if the Chevy is a slug the teams can simply purchase a Toyota or Honda (just like the kind Pimpske and Mikey have) at a league set price and go racing. Brian will make sure of it so even the little guy (who is what the IRL was made for) can get any engine for that low-low league price because the IRL is all about cost controls.
Yiseree, no need to worry. Tony and Brian have it all under control. They won't let those mfgs dictate anything or otherwise do what they did in CART when it came to engines and who got them.
That's exactly right! :D
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