View Full Version : Ok PT lovers (spoilers)
Ruben Barrios
07-11-04, 03:33 PM
Time for this guy to be sat out a race or two. Wasn't he under observation?
redmist
07-11-04, 03:38 PM
why? with all these stupid penalties there is no incentive to even try and pass anymore. might as well make it church league racing.
Ruben Barrios
07-11-04, 03:41 PM
What penalties, there should be penalties, harsh penalties, in F1 PT would have been black falgged on the first incident
running into ppl like he's stevie wonder isn't racing
Fitti Fan
07-11-04, 03:44 PM
He saw the potential for the championship going down the drain and just lost it. Too bad for all of those he took out.
:shakehead
why? with all these stupid penalties there is no incentive to even try and pass anymore. might as well make it church league racing.
Huh? If everybody drove like PT did today (like a child throwing a temper tantrum) there would be no cars left at the end of the races and a bunch of injured drivers.
Ruben Barrios
07-11-04, 03:45 PM
LOL
the PT/JW battle on the straight into turn three was really intriguing until they collided...bummer...
Opposite Lock
07-11-04, 03:55 PM
The Wilson thing might have been "one of them racin' deals", but I think Jourdain just got mugged.
Great race, though! Way to go JV!
Of course, according to Rubens Barrios (aka. I Hate PT) Tracy is also responsible for carpal tunnel syndrom, ingrown toenails and the Atkins Diet. But thanks to the big 'conspiracy' of the unofficial OWRS (nee C^RT) PT fan club he gets away with it. :rolleyes:
Hey Rubens, did you know that PT was behind the grassy knoll?
Ruben Barrios
07-11-04, 04:53 PM
Mappy: being a mexican I would not know what a grassy knoll is, but, I have read a bit about conspiracies....
No conspiracy here, just a desperate guy drving like an idiot and his blind followers defending his actions. Don't stick your neck out for him on this race, he screwed up big time.
If you knew me you'd know better than to say stupid things like that, I do encourage you to pay attention befr spouting off like that.
Dr. Corkski
07-11-04, 04:57 PM
Just got a call from Rahalnut who was at the race. He basically spent the entire call telling me who Punt Tracy took out today. The call took 4 minutes and 34 seconds.
ShickStift
07-11-04, 05:08 PM
Cart can't afford to sit out Paul Tracy. That's the sad truth.
Classic PT. I thought for sure he was gonna take PC as they dueled....that brought back memories of Houston in '98 (w/o the same outcome). Taking out MJ was simply inexcusable.
Lots of bush league driving out there today....PT, Tags, RHR... :shakehead
-Kevin
Sean O'Gorman
07-11-04, 05:58 PM
At least he made the race exciting. Let 'em wreck each other, eventually they'll learn to keep it clean.
And how bout Bruno's lame excuse for lap 1? :shakehead
A couple brain fades but overall I enjoyed the street fight. :thumbup:
Didn't PT have 10 points on probation? If so I think he can kiss them goodbye.
Opposite Lock
07-11-04, 06:18 PM
A couple brain fades but overall I enjoyed the street fight. :thumbup:
Didn't PT have 10 points on probation? If so I think he can kiss them goodbye.
NM had some advisories to PT over the radio near the end - something about "10 points" and "diplomatic".
If you watch the PT/Wilson incident, you will see that PT is clearly in front of Wilson on the outside. At that point, Wilson does not need to let him go, but he does need to commit to the inside line.
Wilson doesn't. He clearly misses his breaking point and skids in front of PT. The only reason there wasn't an accident is because PT backed out.
Then, PT takes the inside line, which he is allowed to do. The only thing you can criticize PT for his trying to pass an out-of-control driver, but if you're not allowed to pass somebody who makes a mistake I don't want to watch.
Personally, I like to see drivers trying to pass one another. If you enjoy drivers lapping around so far apart they have a hard time even seeing each other, watch F1.
Rogue Leader
07-11-04, 06:40 PM
Im a PT fan but todays run was shades of brilliance (like his charge through the field after the penalthy) backed up by shades of utter stupidity (most of the rest of he race). Yes Champcar cannot afford to lose him, in fact Champcar needs PT as hes a good antagonist, but theres one thing to antagonize and another to drive like a monkey ****ing a football. Hes got the talent to lead, if he would learn to control his emotion and not punt every car in front of him instead of just pass them maybe he wouldnt be losing the championship right now..
I think the Wilson/Tracy incident was just that, an incident which happens when guys go deep into a shallow corner. It should be noted that not even God could have made Wilson's car stick to the inside line on that corner. Tracy knew Wilson was going to lose it. The black flag Tracy got for that incident was uncalled for IMO
That being said.... The crashing of Jourdain upon exit of the pit was very sophmoric. There was no way in hadies that Tracy was going to keep the RuSport car behind him with cold tires. Maybe Tracy did not see that particular car, I dont really know. It did appear to me that Tracy drove rather unprofessional today. He nerfed alot of guys. Sebastian hit number one could be attributed to Bourdais lifting off the gas ubruptly. (I tried to look the word up, no dice) (meaning very quickly, without warning, etc)
If the non racefan happened to stumble across this broadcast (which I very much doubt) they may have been entertained. I thought Spike did a pretty good job keeping camera's where the action was happening. Kudo's to them. Tom Kendall needs to quit explaining the obvious. His explanation of pit stops actually made me feel sorry for him. The nugget of info that was "if you dont pit with the leaders, then you can lead a lap" was a classic on par with Murry Walker.
I have seen champions drive like goons before. These big cars on these little circuits tend to bring out the worst in some drivers. Tracy's career has many examples of this sort of thing.
Tracy is Champcar's biggest star. I just returned home from a vacation in South Carolina. I wore some gear, and my little car has Champcar decal fore and aft. The car still draws attention. Many folks asked "what is Champcar" to which I usually responded, "it used to be CART" but found it easier to just say "the series Paul Tracy races in" and they would go "Oh, yeah" like they understood?
Fine him some points, move on to the next race
Next
Tracy drove like a blind idiot-again. I say put him and Tony Stewart in bumper cars and let them crash into each other for 3 hours. That's how they race anyway.
PT's gonna have his skills finely honed when it's time to switch to napcab
Cmndr Keen
07-11-04, 07:06 PM
Jesus, everything's so extreme, black or white. Action packed race with some stupid PT moves for which he was penalized. Sat down for a race or two? Please. Let the guys race, sometimes stuff happens. When it does, take action but not to the point that you kill any motivation for guys to take risks.
Racing Truth
07-11-04, 07:18 PM
Tracy drove like a blind idiot-again. I say put him and Tony Stewart in bumper cars and let them crash into each other for 3 hours. That's how they race anyway.
Why not? I'm a fan of both guys, but h=ll, they pretty much hit everything else today didn't they?
In terms of the Wilson deal, clearly Justin broke too late, but I thought just a tad of restraint on PT's part was called for. That hole was so small and short-lived.
The Jourdain thing was pure bush league on PT's part.
Spicoli
07-11-04, 07:23 PM
http://www.slightlywarped.com/forumpictures/all/stopwhineing.jpg
Methanolandbrats
07-11-04, 07:43 PM
PT is a baldy dickhead, simple as that. And I've got lots of PT gear which I am considering selling/putting on the curb.
redmist
07-11-04, 07:48 PM
Huh? If everybody drove like PT did today (like a child throwing a temper tantrum) there would be no cars left at the end of the races and a bunch of injured drivers.
and 1000's of more fans.
and 1000's of more fans.
this isn't nascar dude
redmist
07-11-04, 08:05 PM
this isn't nascar dude
i'd rather see 18 paul tracys rather than 18 alex sperificos.
i'd rather see 18 paul tracys rather than 18 alex sperificos.
who wouldn't?
FCYTravis
07-11-04, 08:19 PM
Well, look on the bright side... at least Michel's crew didn't go ape**** and start a brawl in PT's pit :rofl:
When I turned off the TV, I thought it was the best race of the year.
I come here and everyone is bitching.
If you didn't like today's race, why the heck do you bother watching?
Well, look on the bright side... at least Michel's crew didn't go ape**** and start a brawl in PT's pit :rofl:
haha, true!!
Agreed - fun race.
PT drove like an idiot, but it made things interesting.
This race was PT's career in a nutshell - flashes of brilliance, but almost always set back by brainfade.
For those who say there's no passing and no action on street circuits - watch a tape of this race.
FCYTravis
07-11-04, 08:28 PM
Agreed - fun race.
PT drove like an idiot, but it made things interesting.
This race was PT's career in a nutshell - flashes of brilliance, but almost always set back by brainfade.
For those who say there's no passing and no action on street circuits - watch a tape of this race.
:thumbup:
Hammer, meet nail. Thanks, JoeBob, for putting it all in perspective. Fantastic race, certainly the best this year. Never got boring!
Spicoli
07-11-04, 08:33 PM
PT running thru the field after his penalty was epic. I especially liked how that Gaston dick just pulled over. LMFAO. Go home girly-man.
This was a great race.
If all those drivers had half the sack PT does, they might win something. Whiners. :gomer:
Dr. Corkski
07-11-04, 08:45 PM
If it was a Schumacher pulling half the crap that PT did, half of you would be on the first flight to Switzerland to lynch him yourself. :gomer:
FCYTravis
07-11-04, 08:46 PM
Don't forget Mario Haberfeld in that sc***** old clapped-out Walker Reynard. FOURTH!?!?!??!? :eek:
Hell of a run... that's as good as a win for that crew. I hardly expected them to get so much as a top 10 :thumbup:
Edit: That ties his career-best finish, set way back at St. Pete last year!
Ruben Barrios
07-11-04, 08:53 PM
good overall race, pissed of that all mexicans were punted :( but good overall.
jonovision_man
07-11-04, 08:56 PM
PT drove like an idiot, but he sure was a popular idiot.
The fans loved every second of it, especially PT charging through the field after the Wilson penalty. The grandstand I was in was errupting at every pass, it was very cool.
CART T. Katz
07-11-04, 09:02 PM
PT is a baldy dickhead, simple as that. And I've got lots of PT gear which I am considering selling/putting on the curb.
(this is being typed with the provision that i have not read the full thread yet)
can i have it all then?
and 1000's of more fans.
IMO, they'd be the wrong fans. Those are the fans that want to see Ultimate Fighting.
This is a form of auto racing that requires not running into other cars to win. NASCAR is where you can run into other cars and win. (and hey, if that's your thing, that's fine with me - it's not my thing)
I like PT's driving as much as the next guy -- WHEN he drives like an adult. But today? Well, it's easy to see why he's only won one championship and has cracked up many, many cars. The Penske team guys didn't call him Cap'N Crunch for noting.
Cmndr Keen
07-11-04, 09:09 PM
When I turned off the TV, I thought it was the best race of the year.
I come here and everyone is bitching.
If you didn't like today's race, why the heck do you bother watching?
Damn, so true. I missed the middle of this race on HDNet so had to settle for the Spike version. Bout time people start showing some sack.... Bad about Jourdain, classic PT brain fade. Sucks to be Michel right now. I seem to recall in the glory days there being plenty of "incidents". Let the guys race and sort the knucklehead moves out later.
PopOffValve
07-11-04, 09:18 PM
Tracy made some amazing, bold moves. I was oohing and ahhing for the first 4 or 5 passes.... then he started taking people out. I guess when you make passes like he did today, you are bound to take people out, but the last few moves were just idiotic.
I agree it was one of the most fun races of the year. Great to see Jimmy on the podium.
Coldfart
07-11-04, 09:42 PM
I especially liked how that Gaston dick just pulled over. LMFAO. Go home girly-man.
Driving for Coyne, guess who girly-man finished directly behind? And without having to cause DNF's to make up positions!
Gaston is coming, chromedome and the blinky-brigade are going to give way!
:beatsSpicoliwithWilkespanties:
I'll say it again, Zanardi took out Moore, coming out of the pits, in the exact same spot, in the exact same way, in .
If you want to say that Zanardi and Tracy are both idiots, I'll give you points for logical consistency, but then you will be wrong about two drivers.
Making mistakes doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human.
Railbird
07-11-04, 10:18 PM
IMO
PT's tangle with Wilson was a result of his underestimation of the Giraffe's ability to claw back down after the lunge, just one of them racing deals.
The Jourdain deal was as mindless as Blinkey's lap one crunch with Stoopid Mario.
In between those two stumbles "The Thrill from West Hill" put on one of the most amazing charges through the concrete canyons I have ever seen.
On to Vancouver
Rogue Leader
07-11-04, 10:56 PM
Oh there was no doubt this race was extremely exciting and the best of the year... And seeing PT rip through the field was unreal, shows how good he can be.
BUT we can only hope the future races can be as action packed, but with less cracked up carbon fiber, and pissed off race teams.
PS... Spike psses me off with the commercials I felt like I watched more commercials than race!
who wouldn't?
Rubin Barrios for one. If you could merge this thread with his CW rantings, you would be close to the meltdown he's conveniently forgot at 7G.
He screwed up, that makes him a dork, an idiot, a loser, a red mist fool, etc.
According to popular opinion, when does the "Bring back FabiodaddypaidmywayintoChampCar" petitions start?
After all, when his car had blue flags, mirrors and pit crew installed, it would shrink from its customary 30' wide stance and get off the racing line. And he never tried to bust the paint by attempting a pass.
Also, he was damn good with his use of the PTP button.
All in all, a driver I would pine over.
X 18.
Sean O'Gorman
07-11-04, 11:23 PM
PT running thru the field after his penalty was epic. I especially liked how that Gaston dick just pulled over. LMFAO. Go home girly-man.
:laugh:
I wonder what would make a better drinking game, chugging every time PT punts someone, or chugging everytime Gaston goes offline, whether on his own or because a car is approaching.
redmist
07-11-04, 11:24 PM
IMO, they'd be the wrong fans. Those are the fans that want to see Ultimate Fighting.
This is a form of auto racing that requires not running into other cars to win. NASCAR is where you can run into other cars and win. (and hey, if that's your thing, that's fine with me - it's not my thing)
I like PT's driving as much as the next guy -- WHEN he drives like an adult. But today? Well, it's easy to see why he's only won one championship and has cracked up many, many cars. The Penske team guys didn't call him Cap'N Crunch for noting.
i wasn't talking about running into other cars, i was talking about having guys that have a win it or wear it attitude, which paul has in spades. and actually i think it was the newman haas guys that came up with the cap'n crunch moniker, after one of pauls run in's with michael.
ah well, I hope stevie wonder likes being 4th in points behind his teammate who has 1/2 the engineering, :rofl:
Steve99
07-11-04, 11:47 PM
All that action, passing, crashes, etc. really got in the way of the street parade. :)
I think we may have set a record for number of commercials in a two hour window though. :(
Tag had some serious brain fade too. Looks like he's watched too much Road Warrior.
only thing missing with the nintendo nitro powerup button and tag/pt/rhr/junkie running into everything is 007 style nosecone housing for heat seeking missles and razor sharp bayonettes protruding from teh wheel hubs
napcab eat your heart out
RaceGrrl
07-12-04, 12:14 AM
Loved this race. Drivers that should know better did some stupid things. PT was a joy to watch as he came back up through the field. Too bad that he just couldn't control himself. I'd have liked to see him win this one.
Commercials? What commercials? Tivo rocks.
yoketv.com has fluff pieces during commercial time :)
Dr. Corkski
07-12-04, 12:31 AM
I'll say it again, Zanardi took out Moore, coming out of the pits, in the exact same spot, in the exact same way, in .
If you want to say that Zanardi and Tracy are both idiots, I'll give you points for logical consistency, but then you will be wrong about two drivers.
Making mistakes doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human.I was never a big fan of Zanardi driving either, but his wins/punt ratio was nowhere near as bad as PT's. On the track, Zanardi was just as much of a menace as PT sometimes. If you want to call them idiots for that fine, but I would say overagressive.
Difference was that he showed far more class outside the car than PT ever has.
chop456
07-12-04, 01:25 AM
He sure talks a lot of smack for someone who's won 1 championship after 15 years on top flight teams. Consider this: had he not taken Dario out twice (?) during Montoya's championshp season, Franchitti would have won it.
If someone could point me to an instance of him getting out of the car and saying "I messed up", I'd like to see it.
I used to be a huge Tracy fan, but this crap gets stale after a while.
Warlock!
07-12-04, 10:35 AM
I used to be a huge Tracy fan, but this crap gets stale after a while.
Yup, and StickShift's observation, "Cart can't afford to sit out Paul Tracy" is pretty much dead on the money, too. Tracy would pitch a b!tch of epic proportions and start lamenting the losses of all the good teams to the IRL again, just like when he got his hand slapped last year.
Can you say "Rock and a hard place" for ChampCar's officials?
Still, those couple o' laps after his first penalty were something incredible.
Warlock!
Opposite Lock
07-12-04, 10:56 AM
If someone could point me to an instance of him getting out of the car and saying "I messed up", I'd like to see it.
Road America 2003? Ok, there was no one else he could have blamed, seeing as how he took himself out.
Fitti Fan
07-12-04, 10:59 AM
I just don't believe the names Zanardi and Tracy should ever be used in the same sentence.
Ruben Barrios
07-12-04, 11:21 AM
Agreed!
Chiphead_Dave
07-12-04, 11:21 AM
I'll say it again, Zanardi took out Moore, coming out of the pits, in the exact same spot, in the exact same way, in .
If you want to say that Zanardi and Tracy are both idiots, I'll give you points for logical consistency, but then you will be wrong about two drivers.
Making mistakes doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human.
Absofreakinglutely. I remember back in the Z-man days. He would bang wheels with anyone (and did). At the time I wondered how his car seemed to never have any damage and the other car would be in the wall.
People complained but loved the action it created. People also called for his head on a platter. These days people have seemed to forget what it was like. Remember "THE PASS" at laguna. That was nuts. If he hadn't made it it would be called "THE CRAZY Z-MOVE". IIRC the next year they made a rule to keep some other driver from trying it.
Now Paul suffers from trying to pass and making some mistakes and people act like he is the devil in a race car.
Sure he screwed up some but IMHO he was overly punished for stuff that was racing.
Zanardi was never gracious about punting people. He would say "we hit, he went into the wall and I drove through it, good for me".
Some "fans" around here need to get medical help.
Thanks C Dave and FTG.
It appears that every ill this series has could be laid at Paul's feet. Now we can't mention PT and Alex in the same sentence.
While I love Alex for his talent and determination, should that be tempered by the times that he tried an awesome pass and it failed, like taking out Greg the identical way at the same corner in Toronto, or "The PASS", which was nothing more than bull***** luck?
Or maybe it would have been better if we had another boring street parade, then the usual suspects could start 30 posts as to how you improve passing.
Or maybe he should have locked the brakes, jumped out of the car and let MJ past.
Or maybe MJ should have conceded the corner knowing full well that he would have been able to take the position back going into T3.
Or maybe the kudos I've heard here about his awsome drive to the front after the 1st penalty is just something that anyone can do, given the opportunity.
Or maybe we should submit to the whims of PissBoy and surrender these races to earl. That would be great. Then we would be able to watch that close 3 wide sidebysidebysidebyside carnage.
Or maybe this august body of expert bench racers need to realize that sometimes while pushing the envelope, the bitch will push back every now and then.
"Some "fans" around here need to get medical help."
Easily the best comment in this thread.......
Madmaxfan2
07-12-04, 01:13 PM
Tracy wasn't the only "idiot" out there. There was more banging and wall tagging going on, wondered if a NECKCAR race broke out. Seriously, given it is a hard place to pass, like many street circuits, maybe the push to pass button time should be unlimited. Use fuel economy limits to control overall speed. IF the only way for an unskilled driver to pass is to use the button, he will run out of fuel. That would put strategy back into the game, and the skilled racers would be rewarded.
Cmndr Keen
07-12-04, 01:14 PM
Thanks C Dave and FTG.
.............Or maybe this august body of expert bench racers need to realize that sometimes while pushing the envelope, the bitch will push back every now and then.
Classic. Seems like alot of folks are looking at the past like we had tons of passing with nary a bent chassis. I wish I knew what race that was....
Dirty Sanchez
07-12-04, 01:15 PM
I believe that Tracy's incredible run through the field wasn't all that incredible. I think those guys just wanted to make it to the finish and let Tracy drive on by. Didn't see anyone defend any lines or anything... either really poor driving or really smart driving... depends on your point of view, I guess.
Paul's incident with Wilson was the more severe of the two, imo. Wilson dives in deep... commits to the corner and sacrifices his exit. Naturally PT will be quicker on the exit... but this is concrete canyon stuff (its a lot like indoor karting)... there isn't a lot of track. PT is only entitled to the piece of track he is on or an open piece of track. He decided he wanted a piece of track that belonged to Wilson. Pretty common mistake for a hothead who's just been passed and can't regroup and take the fight back to him cleanly. Not something I would expect from a 10+ year veteran and/or a champion. There is no question of vision (Wilson was directly in front of him) or grip (neither were on new tires).
I'm not as sure about those two elements when I think about the Jourdain incident... so its maybe a little less flagrant. I am quite sure that both PT and his team knew it was going to be close, though.
I think it was noted before that PT's incredible run through the field ended at Jourdain. I guess we see what happens to guys that don't yield. :thumdown:
RaceGrrl
07-12-04, 01:23 PM
Wilson's front right was locked going into that corner- he'd already started to skid and was countersteering. If you have the race recorded- rewatch it.
Dirty Sanchez
07-12-04, 01:26 PM
I did watch it. Locking up is common when braking deep for a corner... and compromises his exit. He could have been going 1mph at the exit of the corner and PT would have the same responsibility to pass him cleanly.
RaceGrrl
07-12-04, 01:29 PM
You're right...I'm not arguing that point with you. :)
"Some "fans" around here need to get medical help."
Easily the best comment in this thread.......Must disagree re. best comment.
This is:
All that action, passing, crashes, etc. really got in the way of the street parade. :thumbup: Steve!
Or maybe he should have locked the brakes, jumped out of the car and let MJ past.
Or maybe MJ should have conceded the corner knowing full well that he would have been able to take the position back going into T3.
Or maybe as the guy coming out on cold tires who wasn't at the same speed as Jourdain he could've exercised some restraint?
Chiphead_Dave
07-12-04, 03:35 PM
Must disagree re. best comment.
This is: :thumbup: Steve!
I agree with G. This could have been yet another street parade. But we got to see 2 runs from the back to almost the front and the guy who was the fastest and ran the cleanest race (Bourdais) won. What more could you ask for. Well ok Jimmy could have won :D
The incident w/ Wilson was a racing incident. Crap I do stuff like that all the time on the road. Some nutjob infront of me misjudges traffic ahead or the terain and slows or loses it and gets out of shape Gee lets see should I stay behind him and see if I can get caught up his accident/mess or should I go for the open space and let him be an accident of 1. If Tracy had stayed on the outside he would have been collected just the way Junky caught his victim on lap 1. Sure he could have slowed and let him catch himself (Wilson) but this is RACING you try and force mistakes and when they happen you capitalize on them.
Or maybe as the guy coming out on cold tires who wasn't at the same speed as Jourdain he could've exercised some restraint?
If he wasn't at the same speed entering the corner, how in hell did they travel wheel to wheel thru the apex?
:confused:
PT rocks! Great race! :thumbup:
Bet the whingers on these boards also complain about no passing :cry: :o
Insomniac
07-12-04, 04:08 PM
PT rocks! Great race! :thumbup:
Bet the whingers on these boards also complain about no passing :cry: :o
I complain about no passing. You won't see me complain after this one. I saw lots of aggression which meant people trying to pass. As someone said earlier, the way people talk, you would think back in the day every race had passing and was clean. The diiference then and now was car count. You lose 8 of 30 cars, no big deal. You lose 8 of 18 not as much fun. We actually saw some racing instead of follow the leader. :thumbup:
oddlycalm
07-12-04, 04:12 PM
This thread is nearly as entertaining as the race itself. Always good to see lively thread that is actually about events on the track.
Also entertaining was TK's comment about PT's "eyes on stalks" charge through the field. :laugh:
oc
Chiphead_Dave
07-12-04, 04:33 PM
You lose 8 of 30 cars, no big deal. You lose 8 of 18 not as much fun. We actually saw some racing instead of follow the leader. :thumbup:
I would rather see 3 cars finishing and passing (I said passing not crashing) than 30 cars parading in behind the bandleader.
If he wasn't at the same speed entering the corner, how in hell did they travel wheel to wheel thru the apex?
:confused:
same speed explains why jourdain closed on him so quickly as they entered 1
I did watch it. Locking up is common when braking deep for a corner... and compromises his exit. He could have been going 1mph at the exit of the corner and PT would have the same responsibility to pass him cleanly.
Got to disagree. There are 2 lines through 3. Wilson was committed to the inside and missed the braking point. At that point, he is committed to the outside line, but he didn't stay outside.
Earlier, or later, I can't remember which, Patreek overcooked it in 3, stayed outside and I think he let 2 cars by on the inside.
There are two lines. Wilson had two opportunites to pick one, and failed both times.
Hard Driver
07-12-04, 06:22 PM
If you watch the PT/Wilson incident, you will see that PT is clearly in front of Wilson on the outside. At that point, Wilson does not need to let him go, but he does need to commit to the inside line.
Wilson doesn't. He clearly misses his breaking point and skids in front of PT. The only reason there wasn't an accident is because PT backed out.
Then, PT takes the inside line, which he is allowed to do. The only thing you can criticize PT for his trying to pass an out-of-control driver, but if you're not allowed to pass somebody who makes a mistake I don't want to watch.
Personally, I like to see drivers trying to pass one another. If you enjoy drivers lapping around so far apart they have a hard time even seeing each other, watch F1.
Exactly
Dirty Sanchez
07-12-04, 06:31 PM
:rolleyes:
There are a finite number of lines in this kind of racing.
http://www.trmodels.com/images/slot_car_track_7.JPG
PT was passed cleanly. JW was punted. Very, very simple.
:rolleyes:
There are a finite number of lines in this kind of racing.
http://www.trmodels.com/images/slot_car_track_7.JPG
PT was passed cleanly. JW was punted. Very, very simple.
Don't let your blind hatred of anything NOT involving Blinky and Ferarri cloud the issue.
While your earlier post comparing street racing to indoor karting has merit, one thing you forgot was marbles. Lots and freaking lots of marbles. But lets not turn this into a PT fanboy thing. How about we reverse the positions?
PT takes the inside line, locks up and blows the corner. JW justifiably makes a tight apex and retakes the position, but PT on full opposite lock recovers and stabs the throttle.
Same result. On the track and these boards.
Dirty Sanchez
07-12-04, 07:21 PM
Fine... the tables are turned and Wilson is at fault. Sorry, that's not what happened.
I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Wilson blew the corner. He made it just fine... and was on his way in front of Tracy when he was taken out. Was it the fastest way around? No. It never is when you are driving offline and racing for position.
I guess the officials were wrong too :shakehead
But lets not turn this into a PT fanboy thing. when has it ever not been? :p
Insomniac
07-12-04, 07:57 PM
I would rather see 3 cars finishing and passing (I said passing not crashing) than 30 cars parading in behind the bandleader.
I was trying to explain a lot of people's memory of the days of old. There were accidents and FCYs then but it didn't/doesn't bother anyone then/now. I'm happy not to see a parade.
I was trying to explain a lot of people's memory of the days of old. There were accidents and FCYs then but it didn't/doesn't bother anyone then/now. I'm happy not to see a parade.
na, PT's ability to run into anyone even while going straight down the pitlane has always annoyed me the past 10+ years
Insomniac
07-12-04, 08:07 PM
Fine... the tables are turned and Wilson is at fault. Sorry, that's not what happened.
I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Wilson blew the corner. He made it just fine... and was on his way in front of Tracy when he was taken out. Was it the fastest way around? No. It never is when you are driving offline and racing for position.
I guess the officials were wrong too :shakehead
He may not have stuffed it in the wall, but taking the inside line going in and the outside line going out isn't exactly taking the corner properly. Technically, altering you line is blocking.
We'll never know if the officials were right or wrong. (they'd never admit it) However, I called them on taking so long to make a decision and said they needed to start going with their instincts and handing out penalties immediately. I commend them for not waiting until after the race to dock PT 2 points (or none if that was the case) and making decisions at the time. IMO, both of PT's incidents were close. Racing is a close sport. PT was right in saying he shouldn't have to yield to MJ, and MJ had every right to try and pass PT. At this point, every driver in the series knows the chances of PT backing off are slim to none (especially with him not leading the championship). I'm not saying MJ should back off, or anybody, but you have to weigh that risk. PT's day could've been over as well. He got lucky in both incidents.
Insomniac
07-12-04, 08:09 PM
I'm glad people are starting to bully their way through the field. It's clear waiting on a guy to move over is not going to do anything. It's about time everyone got aggressive again. It may be the start of drivers respecting each other and giving each other some room instead of just trying to maintain their position.
Spicoli
07-12-04, 08:17 PM
This cracks me up.
Last year everyone LOVED PT for standing up to TG and the nimrods at EARL. He symbolized the new ChampCar.
Now we have a bunch of whiners, who are usually the FIRST to complain about a bvoring race.
Well, LMFAO, look what PT did - made a great race, took his penalties and lumps, and got you all on a 4 page thread about it. He must have made 20 passes during the race, and nobody can talk about that!
What a bunch of whiners.
http://www.slightlywarped.com/forumpictures/all/boohoo.jpg
FCYTravis
07-12-04, 09:24 PM
Well, LMFAO, look what PT did - made a great race, took his penalties and lumps, and got you all on a 4 page thread about it. He must have made 20 passes during the race, and nobody can talk about that![/IMG]
And he didn't call Chris Kneifel a circus clown afterwards, either :laugh:
Just like this thread, it seems everyone has a different perspective on good racing:
DP's Toronto Notes (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/11992/)
Asked why so many incidents on the day, Vasser commented, "The grid has been very, very tight. Sebastien pulled away easily, he was kind of the class of the field all weekend long. But I think you've seen the grid be very tight…. Second, third, all the way back to the top 10, guys are pushing very hard. It's competitive. Sometimes it's very inviting, especially on a restart or some of these braking zones to try to make a maneuver because it's easier at the start of a stint than once everything settles in. It's difficult to pass. Guys like to try to take that opportunity. You know, it's very high-energy out there."
Phillips also has the date wrong for the Vancouver Olympics, which will be in 2010 (not 2008).
-Kevin
You guys are killin' me. "At least it wasn't boring..." :rolleyes:
Like the choices are:
a) No passing
b) Drive like a selfish little boy and throw your car anywhere you want and if there's somebody there, BLAM! Little pieces of car all over the track, full course yellow. Less people to RACE.
Hey, PT has talent - no question about it. And, I've been a fan of his. I like people that aren't afraid to try something brave -- especially if they can pull it off.
But that doesn't mean it's okay to drive like you're the only one on the track.
It's not just about bravado, it's about skill and good judgement. I love spectacular passes and driving but not at the expense of everybody else on the track AND all those unnecessary full course yellows.
This cracks me up.
Last year everyone LOVED PT for standing up to TG and the nimrods at EARL. He symbolized the new ChampCar.
Now we have a bunch of whiners, who are usually the FIRST to complain about a bvoring race.
Well, LMFAO, look what PT did - made a great race, took his penalties and lumps, and got you all on a 4 page thread about it. He must have made 20 passes during the race, and nobody can talk about that!
What a bunch of whiners.
haha, not everyone buddy, now wait, who was it that was crying last weekend about someone in his way when he didnt even try a pass?
Sean O'Gorman
07-12-04, 09:38 PM
haha, not everyone buddy, now wait, who was it that was crying last weekend about someone in his way when he didnt even try a pass?
Heh, Ank has a good point for once.
Heh, Ank has a good point for once.
hey, what was your first post at that other forum about? oh right, it was censored :p
Seven cautions, 27 laps, 32% of the race.... :thumdown:
haha, not everyone buddy, now wait, who was it that was crying last weekend about someone in his way when he didnt even try a pass?
ROFLMAO!!!! Exactly!!! :rofl:
Railbird
07-12-04, 09:54 PM
Seven cautions, 27 laps, 32% of the race....
Dead on RT.
I was bitchin' about that at the bar, fewer FCYs and quicker clean ups after some of the minor deals should be on the top of the "to do" list if the three amigos expect to take this act back to the mainstream.
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