Heidfeld vs. Pizzonia for Williams German GP seat

[The Doctor]

According to speculation, Sir Frank summoned the German's F1 chief Eddie Jordan to the BMW motor home at Silverstone to see if 'Quick Nick' might be available.

A rumour is that NH and tester Antonio Pizzonia might do a track 'shoot out' to discover who's best-equipped to drive the final seven Grand Prix of the season.

Jordan has previously said he would 'never' stand in the way if Heidfeld is offered a better deal but is understood to be asking for 'more than' $3 million.

Munich-based manufacturer BMW is applying pressure for a German next season after injured Ralf Schumacher announced the switch from Williams to Toyota.

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html

--------------

Nick Heidfeld could test for Williams this week with a view to racing at the German GP.

Reports suggest that Williams have lost patience with test driver Marc Gene, who filled in for the injured Ralf Schumacher at Magny-Cours and Silverstone.

Gene finished 10th and 12th respectively in the French and British Grands Prix and is unlikely to get a third chance to impress.

It had been thought that the Italian’s fellow tester Antonio Pizzonia might be given a chance but Heidfeld has now emerged as a contender.

The deal makes sense because it would ensure the team has a German in one of its cars at Hockenheim – something that would go down well with engine supplier BMW.

Jordan would be due some compensation to release Heidfeld from his contract, but EJ has previously said that one of his missions this season is to find the German a drive at a bigger team.

Should the deal go through, it would give Heidfeld an ideal chance to stake his claim for a top drive in 2005.

It is not clear when Schumacher will be back behind the wheel of a Williams, if at all. Doctors told him he needed to rest for 8-12 weeks after his accident at Indianapolis last month.

Schumacher indicated yesterday that he hoped to be back in time for the Hungarian Grand Prix on August 15 – but Williams are unlikely to want to rush him back, especially since the German has already signed to drive for Toyota in 2005.


http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30694

[Railbird]

And yet Buddy Lazier's phone isn't ringing?... :shakehead


Seriously, I would still like to see Pizzonia get a shot, if Heidfeld is head and shoulders above so be it. It seems to me that "Quick Nick" exist in that netherland occupied by the likes of Jos the Boss and Memo Gidley, they can never come up short enough to discourage their ardent supporters.

Of course "Jungle Boy" could be included in that same group.

Hell, give Narain Karthikeyan a tryout.

or there's always that unemployed former champ.

or Marty Roth

silly season, gotta love it

right up untill Crapus comes along and tells us all to shut up

[nissan gtp]

I'd like to see Nick get a chance. Not that the Williams is a good car :rolleyes: , but anything is better than the Jordon (car not gal).

Nick might "have it".... I'd like to see if he does ....... and he'd be cheap, which would appeal to Sir Frank :D

[Railbird]

and he'd be cheap, which would appeal to Sir Frank

yep

Sir Frank isn't sniffing around too many high dollar shoes, he doesn't hire high-priced heroes, he makes them.

[JT265]

yep

Sir Frank isn't sniffing around too many high dollar shoes, he doesn't hire high-priced heroes, he makes them.

True dat. I'd like to see Nick in the seat, if for no other reason than if he can live up to his junior formula hype.

And speaking of $$$$, JVil likely makes more on his investments than Sir Frank is willing to pay him or anyone else.

[Cam]

True dat. I'd like to see Nick in the seat, if for no other reason than if he can live up to his junior formula hype.

And speaking of $$$$, JVil likely makes more on his investments than Sir Frank is willing to pay him or anyone else.

I will echo that... Nick has always had potential.... He has just never had the seat to prove it! Give the guy a chance.

As an aside..... I have a pic from the USGP that I would like someone to scrutenize, I think I see someting that doesnt add up.....

[JT265]

As an aside..... I have a pic from the USGP that I would like someone to scrutenize, I think I see someting that doesnt add up.....

Post it. You didn't REALLY think that stuff was Clabber Girl, did ya? :rofl:

[Cam]

Post it. You didn't REALLY think that stuff was Clabber Girl, did ya? :rofl:

OK.... What's the logo above Fisi's right eye in this (http://www.pccruisers.com/pict0031.jpg) pic? Is that what I think it is? (Caution large picture). Seems Sauber are double dipping? :saywhat:

[chop456]

OK.... What's the logo above Fisi's right eye in this (http://www.pccruisers.com/pict0031.jpg) pic? Is that what I think it is? (Caution large picture). Seems Sauber are double dipping? :saywhat:

Maybe it's a leftrover graphic from when they actually used Mercedes power? That was a long time ago, though. Maybe their transporters are Mercedes?

[chop456]

http://www.hitechbulletin.com/2004/formula1/Sauber-extendsDamChrytruckdeal-feb20-04.htm

I love Google. :D

[Rogue Leader]

Maybe it's a leftrover graphic from when they actually used Mercedes power? That was a long time ago, though. Maybe their transporters are Mercedes?

I think youre right about the transporters, because they didnt have Mercedes Power when they had these paint schemes IIRC....

[Dirty Sanchez]

Can't recall telling anyone to shut up... y'all did that all on your own. I did comment that I thought the Villenuve racing for Williams @Magny-Cours rumors were stupid.

Williams are in real danger of slipping to 5th in the constructor's title... each position up or down means approx. $2,000,000. They will give the seat to whoever they think gives them the most realistic chance at getting points now. I think Gene retains the seat for Hockenheim... but future lackluster performances may give Pizzonia a shot. Guys within the team should have greater chance at success than someone (even a former champ) that is coming in fresh from the outside.

The only scenario I see where someone else gets the call is if Jaguar agree to let Webber go... and he signs a multi-year Williams deal. Getting the jump on next year and being able to work on next year's car being the reasons for such a move. This is supposedly possible by Hungary... but also unlikely, imo.

I read the Heidfeld rumors as being the kind of convenient german driver/german company rumors... not much substance there. I don't think it would be a very good career move for Nick without some assurance that he will be there for 2005.

I believe Williams will stick to actually testing drivers in order to evaluate them rather than handing them a race seat.

But why believe me.?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Williams: Pizzonia or Gene Likely to Race in Germany

Tuesday July 13th, 2004

By Dieter Rencken

Spaniard Marc Gene or Brazilian Antonio Pizzonia are likely to race for Williams at the German Grand Prix next week, the Formula One team said today.

Gene replaced the injured Ralf Schumacher at the French and British Grands Prix, but the Spaniard failed to shine in both races, finishing in 10th position at Magny-Cours and only 12th at Silverstone last Sunday.

Williams are still considering their options for the German Grand Prix, and test driver Pizzonia is one of the favourites for the seat.

"It is 95% certain that the obvious drivers will be testing this week. By the obvious I mean Marc and Antonio," said a Williams spokesman. "The next logical question is race nominations; I think the team will wait until next week before nominating for Hockenheim.

"All sorts of names have been linked, and whilst we never say 'never', I think you'll find that Marc or Antonio will drive in Germany."

Both Pizzonia and Gene are scheduled to test at the Jerez circuit this week, but other drivers like Jordan's Nick Heidfeld have been linked with the second Williams seat until Schumacher returns.

Pizzonia last raced at the British Grand Prix last year, when he was driving for Jaguar.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Anyone on here speak Finnish? :gomer:

LINKAGE (http://www.turunsanomat.fi/f1/?ts=1,2,1,0,27:28:29:30,0:0:0:0,1,1:1:1:1,171593,2 004-07-13)

The translation that I read says this: "Sunday night (in Silverstone) it has been found out that Fisichella has already announced to Peter Sauber that he is leaving the team after this season. This means contract with Williams."

Yes, silly season is great. :)

[Coldfart]

I think Gene retains the seat for Hockenheim... but future lackluster performances may give Pizzonia a shot.

Considering his first two performances were lackluster [along with the one in Italy last year], how many lackluster performances should Williams endure before giving someone else a chance?

Gene has performed poorly as a fill in at Monza, Magny Cours and Silverstone. Monza can be argued but France and England cannot. Gene had his chance, he sucks. Let someone else drive.

[Dirty Sanchez]

He scored points in Monza... finishing 5th behind M. Schumacher, Montoya, Barrichello and Raikkonen. Hardly lackluster. In fact, his performance was pretty damn impressive.

In France, the Williams was the 4th or 5th best car. Montoya could only manage 8th and 1 point. Gene finished 10th... but was not on Montoya's pace. Guess its time to find a replacement for Juan too?

In Silverstone, Gene looked worse, finishing 12 to Montoya's 5th. Lackluster.

The team's only other serious option would be to put Pizzonia in the car. It may just come to that... but he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either with his racecraft (dominated by Webber last year).

[Dirty Sanchez]

The only scenario I see where someone else gets the call is if Jaguar agree to let Webber go... and he signs a multi-year Williams deal. Getting the jump on next year and being able to work on next year's car being the reasons for such a move. This is supposedly possible by Hungary... but also unlikely, imo.God damn, I'm good ;)

Webber doubts he will switch mid-season
Thu 15 Jul, 9:02 AM

Mark Webber won't race a Williams in Hungary.

Earlier reports suggested a deal was done where the Australian might hang up his Jaguar career after Hockenheim to seize Marc Gene's fill- in racing role.

"As far as you can ever say anything in F1," the 27-year-old told the Herald Sun, "I don't believe I'll be in anything other than a Jaguar [this year]."

According to further speculation, Webber has now turned down a $22 million offer to partner Ralf Schumacher at Toyota next season in favour of a Williams deal.

He told publications "I'm not interested in the money. I'm interested in podiums. I have a lot more to prove."

Meanwhile, BMW-Williams spokesman suggested either incumbent Marc Gene "or [second test driver] Antonio Pizzonia" will drive the second FW26 at Hockenheim.

[Coldfart]

He scored points in Monza... finishing 5th behind M. Schumacher, Montoya, Barrichello and Raikkonen. Hardly lackluster. In fact, his performance was pretty damn impressive.

In France, the Williams was the 4th or 5th best car. Montoya could only manage 8th and 1 point. Gene finished 10th... but was not on Montoya's pace. Guess its time to find a replacement for Juan too?

So while Montoya was busy fighting for the win in Monza, Gene was languishing around in 5th, 20 odd seconds behind the Colombian. Hardly impressive.

As for Montoilet finishing 8th in France, he managed a spin and still finished ahead of Gene.

Look, we're not talking about some guy Williams just drafted into the seat. This guy has thousands of kilometers of testing and still can't come close to the pace. I can see Williams thinking Monza was an abberation, but when he couldn't match the pace a spinning Montoya had in France: a circuit Gene has done thousands of km on: that should have been a tip off to tap someone else for Silverstone - and the Silverstone performance should have certainly eliminated all doubt.

At this point, even a beer-gutted Mansell is probably a better choice.

[Chaos]

Heidfeld supporters are still miffed that he never did get a seat in the McLaren, especially when McLaren acquired Raikkonen

[mapguy]

I can't see Sir Frank hiring any of these wankers. Both were owned by former teammates (Raikkonen and Webber).

As for Fisi. If he was really that good he would have been in a top seat by now. He is well past his sell-by date.

[chop456]

As for Fisi. If he was really that good he would have been in a top seat by now. He is well past his sell-by date.

There haven't been all that many opportunities if you think about it. God knows how Coulthard has stayed in the game. Fisi has outscored his teammate almost every year and won in a Jordan for god's sake.

Who knows what he's turned down, too? There seem to have always been rumblings about Ferrari, he's not the Badoer testing type, though.

He's not prone to mistakes, and he's fairly consistent. At 30, and with a ton of experience, I'd disagree that he's washed up. Everyone thinks that BAR's drivers are the cat's meow right now. Fisi waxed both of them.

[mapguy]

In one of Nigel Roebuck's Fifth Columns in Autosport during the off season when Fisi was in play one high ranking team official (who I suspect is Patrick Head) was quoted "If he was really good we would have signed him long ago."

I think that he is a top mid-packer. Decent driver, but not worthy of a top ride. Just my honest opinion.

Although all of our opinions on this thread are moot until OC's self-appointed driver expert, Dr. Corkski, pipes in with his incredible insight that makes us all look like simpering gomers.

[Railbird]

Planet F1 (http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_16569.shtml) has Pizzonia in the seat in Germany with Williams calling EJ foolish for setting the Fisi price too high.

[chop456]

Planet F1 (http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_16569.shtml) has Pizzonia in the seat in Germany with Williams calling EJ foolish for setting the Fisi price too high.

What does Eddie have to do with Fisichella's contract? Is he on loan to Sauber or something? :confused:

[Dr. Corkski]

Heidfeld never exactly got owned by Kimi when they were driving the same car. I don't know if it's "incredible insight", but it was a well-known fact that Heidfeld outscored Kimi that year. I guess you could say Heidfeld got owned in that he didn't have young Finnish boy look that Uncle Ron had a Kate Shaw-like fetish for.

The same Patrick Head that thinks Fisico is no good is also the same Patrick Head that thought Blinky was better than Timberlake, Frentzen better than Schumacher, and that a certain Canadian almost threw away a championship with a superior car. But hey, if you want to take his words as gospel, fine by me.

I think EJ was asking for $3mil to release Heidfeld to Sir Frank. :rolleyes:

[Rogue Leader]

Planet F1 (http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_16569.shtml) has Pizzonia in the seat in Germany with Williams calling EJ foolish for setting the Fisi price too high.

That was Heidfelds price.....

[Railbird]

my bad

early and all you know.

[Rogue Leader]

my bad

early and all you know.

whats funny is at this time I can barely function normally.... yet I can belt out racing info easily!

[Railbird]

this time of the day the over-rated midpackers all run together for me.

[chop456]

this time of the day the over-rated midpackers all run together for me.

:laugh:

[jonovision_man]

Pizzonia (as reported by AtlasF1):

"All I know is that the team has told me to be ready"

Good! I'm excited to see the guy out there, I'm sure he'll be a blast to watch, kind of like Sato. I don't think he had a fair shake at Jaguar.

jono

[Dirty Sanchez]

So while Montoya was busy fighting for the win in Monza, Gene was languishing around in 5th, 20 odd seconds behind the Colombian. Hardly impressive.

As for Montoilet finishing 8th in France, he managed a spin and still finished ahead of Gene.

Look, we're not talking about some guy Williams just drafted into the seat. This guy has thousands of kilometers of testing and still can't come close to the pace. I can see Williams thinking Monza was an abberation, but when he couldn't match the pace a spinning Montoya had in France: a circuit Gene has done thousands of km on: that should have been a tip off to tap someone else for Silverstone - and the Silverstone performance should have certainly eliminated all doubt.

At this point, even a beer-gutted Mansell is probably a better choice.Oh boy. He didn't match Montoya's pace, so he sucks? wtf? His job was to come in and get points for the team... that's what he did... on extremely short notice. He was universally praised for his performance... finishing behind guys that finished 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the championship is about the best one could reasonably hope to expect. I think you underestimate the difficulty of jumping into a race seat. Look how pathetic Wilson performed at Jaguar last year. I don't believe anyone here thinks that he sucks?! :saywhat:

F1 has not tested at Magny-Cours in 2 or 3 years. So I can't imagine how Gene could have done thousands of km there.

Sheeeez... you must come from the Pat Patrick school of driver development.... give him a few races and then kick 'em to the curb. :shakehead

[Dirty Sanchez]

I can't see Sir Frank hiring any of these wankers. Both were owned by former teammates (Raikkonen and Webber).

As for Fisi. If he was really that good he would have been in a top seat by now. He is well past his sell-by date.The uber-gomer post of the year. :gomer:

Get it straight, doodsicle.

Heidfeld was not owned by Raikkonen. Check the standings. That's not to say that I don't rate Raikkonen over Heidfeld.

Fisichella hasn't been owned by anyone. Only Michael Schumacher has been more dominant vs. his teammates.

Villeneuve was oVVned by Button.

There is only one driver of the three mentioned that is past his sell by date. ;)

[Dirty Sanchez]

F1 has not tested at Magny-Cours in 2 or 3 years. So I can't imagine how Gene could have done thousands of km there.The last 3 tests @Magny-Cours... September 2001, May 2001, April 2001. ;)

[jonovision_man]

Heidfeld was not owned by Raikkonen. Check the standings. That's not to say that I don't rate Raikkonen over Heidfeld.

Fisichella hasn't been owned by anyone. Only Michael Schumacher has been more dominant vs. his teammates.

Villeneuve was oVVned by Button.

There is only one driver of the three mentioned that is past his sell by date. ;)

Raikkonen came into that seat next to Heidfeld with significantly (almost ridiculously!) less experience and matched him in pretty short order. There's a reason Mercedes picked Kimi, not Nick, even though Heidfeld was in Mercedes pocket. Maybe he didn't "own" him, but he certainly embarrased him!

Fisi is a tough one, there's no doubt he's fast and would do well in a top team, but he really hasn't been up against the toughest teammates, and he's no spring chicken. I rate him quite highly, but for some reason none of the team owners have taken a bite, there's got to be more to this guy.

Jacques being owned by Button is a little misleading, he had a lot of engine failures that Button magically avoids (a trend that's continued with Sato!) and the environment on that team was absolute poison. I don't think that was a straight comparisson.

jono

[Dirty Sanchez]

Pizzonia is in... :o

Williams confirms Pizzonia switch.
Fri 16 Jul, 4:09 PM

The Williams-BMW team has put an end to the speculation surrounding its second driver for next weekend's German Grand Prix by naming test driver Antonio Pizzonia as Juan Montoya's team-mate.

[tomahawk]

If Pizzaman does well, I certainly rates a look...though I don't think that Webber rates him at all - either as a racer or as a developer. So pairing them again could be a disaster.


:tomahawk