View Full Version : Portland
ChampCar might be out (http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1089979808154950.xml)
Grrrrrr......
ChampCar want's to sign a three year extention, assuming the financial responsibility and Portland wants an RFP to 'essentially a questionnaire that outlines what potential benefits a race would bring to the city'.
After all these years they don't know the benefits to the city??? :rolleyes:
Maybe the yahoos in charge deserve the earl.
The RFP gives a 'competing' series a chance to outbid OWRS. And somehow, I don't expect that 'competing' series to be either ALMS or GrandAm.
oddlycalm
07-16-04, 06:08 PM
:thumdown: My prediction is that within 5yrs professional formula car racing will be a distant memory for Portland, and along with it the $20 million that the race brought to the community. :shakehead
Local golf pro/big-fish-in-a-small-pond Peter Jacobson along with former event chairman Bill Hildick (paid consultant to IPS) and race originator (and Penske buddy) Bob Ames have been are doing the lobbying for TG. In other words, the fix is in. My take is that it's a done deal and the bid process is simply a way to give an outward appearence of a fair process.
oc
Nice. The Request for Proposal is pretty much a smack in the face. I sure hope people stay away from the IRL race there.
If they want us, they want us. If they don't they don't. If they don't, so long.
oddlycalm
07-16-04, 06:29 PM
I sure hope people stay away from the IRL race there.
That's virtually guaranteed Rich. I've also been cosidering a little scorched earth action. There is serious opposition to the track from the surrounding neighborhoods due to noise, and armed with accurate information the neighborhood groups could make it very difficult to put on an EARL race. The one thing that stops me from doing this is that the ALMS race would ultimately be impacted as well. Stirring up the neighborhood organizations is a long term negative for the future of the track, but creating a big problem for the EARL and the fool commisioner that is causing this to happen is very tempting.
oc
The one thing that stops me from doing this is that the ALMS race would ultimately be impacted as well.
oc
Not to mention trackdays in your M3! I definitely understand the temptation, though.
Portland is such a great, unique track. I'll miss it from the schedule.
Lizzerd
07-16-04, 06:59 PM
Dear God, don't let our beloved Champ Cars become a street series!
* We've lost Mid-Ohio
* We are on the verge of losing Road America and Laguna Seca (I think?)
* We can't go to: Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, Sears Point, Lime Rock, Mosport...
What else is there besides the Mexican races, Montreal, and some "maybes" in Europe?
^ I agree Lizzerd, but in this case what's OWRS to do? The RFP is nothing more than an invitation to be outbid. OWRS passes and makes it publicly known they will not respond. Whatever series that bids now, won't bid so high (or in this case bid a lower sanction fee). In the long run, by OWRS not bidding the city of Portland loses money by it not being competitive.
Anteater
07-17-04, 12:57 PM
The news just got worse! :flame:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/109006590142351.xml
Rogue Leader
07-17-04, 01:31 PM
I think this calls for an FTG!!!
Hardball. That's the way these guys seem to play.
oddlycalm
07-17-04, 04:03 PM
Not to mention trackdays in your M3!
The M3 has been sold Rich, but track days with street mufflers wouldn't have been in jeopardy in any case, only unmuffled NA engines that can be heard in all the North Portland neighborhoods. The Panoz and ALMS Corvettes were over 130db last time they were here, and the EARL would not have been far behind. Champ Cars are much quieter.
It appears to be a done deal now, and while I will greatly miss the race, I applaud CCWS for calling BS on the political farce and opting out. This also calls the EARL's bluff, and puts the reputations of Peter Jacobsen, Bob Ames and Bill Hildick right on the line. When, not if, Portland no longer has a race in June that brings $20 million into the local economy, those responsible will have destroyed their credibility.
don't let our beloved Champ Cars become a street series!
It's no accident that the EARL is focusing at undercutting CCWS at the natural terrain courses. With Mid-Ohio gone, if they can remove Laguna Seca Road America and Portland from the CCWS schedule they take a lot away from Champ Car.
oc
Bound to happen. No unification talks opened the flood gates to cherry picking venues.
It's no accident that the EARL is focusing at undercutting CCWS at the natural terrain courses. With Mid-Ohio gone, if they can remove Laguna Seca Road America and Portland from the CCWS schedule they take a lot away from Champ Car.
My concern is that it's a strategy that may have some legs. Champ car fans love their series, but they also tend to love their favorite road courses. If the IRL races at MidOhio, Laguna Seca, Portland, or Road America, I guarantee that some people here will say, "I hate the IRL, but how can I pass up a race at my favorite track?" in just the same way that some folks can't pass up an F1 race even though they're directly supporting the Great Satan himself.
They'll come back and report that the crowd was sparse, the racing sucked and overall it was a great big joke, but the tickets were cheap and they got a free hat so, sure, they'll go back next year.
It's stuff like this, along with the Herdez announcement, that makes me really stop caring anymore.
I'm sorry to say it, but that's the way I feel at the moment barring anything to be optimistic about.
It's stuff like this, along with the Herdez announcement, that makes me really stop caring anymore.
I'm sorry to say it, but that's the way I feel at the moment barring anything to be optimistic about.
I still have some faith in the business sense of the guys running the store right now. Go back to the Toronto race video and watch Kalkoven greeting Vasser and it will raise your spirits and build your confidence.
There is plenty to be concerned about, but if OWRs says that things are looking up I'll wait for the schedule announcement to start nashing my teeth.
oddlycalm
07-17-04, 08:15 PM
My concern is that it's a strategy that may have some legs.
If the strategy is about damaging CCWS, it is already very effective. If the strategy is about attracting new fans to the EARL, it won't work. What's more, now that CCWS has been chased off, I won't be at all surprised if the EARL never turns a wheel at PIR, it's mission already accomplished.
Portland is a different situation from Ohio and Indiana in that this was the only pro level formula car race in the area, and that is no traditional race fan base here, nor has there been other high level racing until ALMS made their on-again-off-again attempt.
The other major difference is the sheer number of other things to do here, from the mountains to the beach, from the festivals to the fishing. Folks have turned out to watch Champ Cars for 20yrs, but have not embraced any other racing. ALMS crowds are barely larger than for club races. In addition, aside from the racing, I predict the EARL's dopey persona will be a severe culture clash with this audience.
IMO the race in Portland simply won't survive after the fist couple stillborn EARL fiascos, assuming the EARL manages to hold a race here at all. Even if it were to survive a few years, it would have ALMS sized crowds and near-zero economic benefit for the area. It's a lose/lose situation regardless.
oc
Steve99
07-17-04, 11:27 PM
^ I agree Lizzerd, but in this case what's OWRS to do? The RFP is nothing more than an invitation to be outbid. OWRS passes and makes it publicly known they will not respond. Whatever series that bids now, won't bid so high (or in this case bid a lower sanction fee). In the long run, by OWRS not bidding the city of Portland loses money by it not being competitive.
But by putting in some bid, couldn't OWRS force FTG to spend more money to get the race? The quicker FTG squanders the family money the better.
But by putting in some bid, couldn't OWRS force FTG to spend more money to get the race? The quicker FTG squanders the family money the better.
It's not about the money, it's about principles.
If OWRS caves now and bids, then it sets them up for the same situation all over again when it comes time to negotiate with Road America, Laguna Seca, and other tracks on the bubble. By refusing to bid for Portland OWRS sends the message to the other venues they they're not going to tolerate any horsing around. Deal with them straight or don't deal at all.
It's not about the money, it's about principles.
If OWRS caves now and bids, then it sets them up for the same situation all over again when it comes time to negotiate with Road America, Laguna Seca, and other tracks on the bubble. By refusing to bid for Portland OWRS sends the message to the other venues they they're not going to tolerate any horsing around. Deal with them straight or don't deal at all.
I doubt all venues will emulate Cleveland, it's going to get to the point of personal contacts and tracks will look at the bottom line of who will pay more.
I agree they shouldn't get into a bidding war. IF TG gets Portland, they have another right turner, they lose Portland by getting outbid, it bleeds OWRS a little bit more.
So the Earl will win win whether they get the track or not.
Methanolandbrats
07-18-04, 03:02 PM
The IRL outbidding and obtaining a venue is a lot different than running a race there. That's the hard part. There was an FTG ****box running with Champcars and newer F1 cars at Road America this weekend. Watching that POS brake very early, grind the gears and fart it's way out of a corner was nauseating. It was SLOWWWWW as hell and sounded horrible. Nobody will pay to watch that junk on road or street courses.
This is a good sign in my opinion.
Although I hate the way this is being played out, I can’t see how OWRS can afford to get involved in bidding wars with Boy George for each venue as each contract comes up for renewal. At this point, we need to concentrate on doing business with those who want to do business with us. We are fighting for survival and don’t have the time or the money to play games. If Portland has no loyalty toward us after all these years, it is best to move on.
BTW: I predict that we will find surprising numbers of people do show up for IRL races on road courses. Very few people see this as a question of values beyond the environs of Internet bulletin boards.
Madmaxfan2
07-19-04, 09:00 AM
I still have yet to see the IRL actually schedule a road race, despite the rumors for the last two years. Portland may have actually screwed itself out of a top level formula Car race. I predict that even with the upgrades, crapwagons will still make crappy lap times, and the road courses that host thier events will be dumbed down, ala Sears Point and Watkins Glen NASCAR style. Basically circuliar course with an occasional gentle right hander with one 'Inner loop" or hairpin turn. I think "inner loop" is NASCAR speak for chicane. Of course NASCAR couldn't bear itself to use proper terminology, that would give road racing it's due.
Methanolandbrats
07-19-04, 09:48 AM
BTW: I predict that we will find surprising numbers of people do show up for IRL races on road courses. Very few people see this as a question of values beyond the environs of Internet bulletin boards. If you're right and crowds do show up American racing is done. It will then be clear the public cannot tell the difference between racing and a junk parade.
racer2c
07-19-04, 10:30 AM
This is a good sign in my opinion.
...
BTW: I predict that we will find surprising numbers of people do show up for IRL races on road courses. Very few people see this as a question of values beyond the environs of Internet bulletin boards.
What constitutes a "surprising numbers of people"? CART, a veteran road racing series was losing attendance at permanent road courses by the tens of thousands to the point that the CCWS is on the verge of losing some of the courses that are practically synonymous with the series. So if the IRL has 20K at a course that the CCWS had 25K, is that going to be heralded as a grand success and that open wheel racing in the US has been SAVED! I remember pre-lockout road races having 75 to 100K. Thanks Tony.
I also disagree with your last sentence. One word: Cleveland. I have friends who are CCWS fans and F1 fans and have never even seen an Internet message board, let alone influenced by one, and they wouldn't even entertain the thought of attending an IRL race.
Steve99
07-19-04, 11:48 AM
Basically circuliar course with an occasional gentle right hander with one 'Inner loop" or hairpin turn. I think "inner loop" is NASCAR speak for chicane. Of course NASCAR couldn't bear itself to use proper terminology, that would give road racing it's due.
Chicane? Is dat one of dem der furrin' words? Damn Frogs. :gomer:
Chicane? Is dat one of dem der furrin' words? Damn Frogs. :gomer:
Petites grenouilles: fried frog legs. Chicane: lousy turn.
Do syllogisms work in French?
Madmaxfan2
07-20-04, 11:08 AM
I still have yet to see the IRL actually schedule a road race, despite the rumors for the last two years. Portland may have actually screwed itself out of a top level formula Car race. I predict that even with the upgrades, crapwagons will still make crappy lap times, and the road courses that host thier events will be dumbed down, ala Sears Point and Watkins Glen NASCAR style. Basically circuliar course with an occasional gentle right hander with one 'Inner loop" or hairpin turn. I think "inner loop" is NASCAR speak for chicane. Of course NASCAR couldn't bear itself to use proper terminology, that would give road racing it's due.
RM and other rumors now have it that my original above premise is likely to be right, Portland just got screwed out of a Champ Car race with no IRL event to replace it.
RM and other rumors now have it that my original above premise is likely to be right, Portland just got screwed out of a Champ Car race with no IRL event to replace it.
Hopefully RoadAmerica and others are paying attention.
oddlycalm
07-20-04, 04:20 PM
RM and other rumors now have it that my original above premise is likely to be right, Portland just got screwed out of a Champ Car race with no IRL event to replace it.
Absolutely right. Pumped up by TG's schills, the city overplayed it's hand and was caught out in a bluff, which is exactly why I applauded CCWS withdrawing even though it meant losing our race.
Now the ball is in the EARL's court, where I predict will dribble out unreturned. Portland screwed itself out of a race thanks to our inspired politically leadership.
oc
pferrf1
07-20-04, 06:35 PM
Ha Ha HA.
I am laughing to myslef at the thought of an IRL start with the Festival curves. ha ha ha.
Maybe they'll just take that section out and let them run straight.
Anteater
07-20-04, 09:58 PM
I am laughing to myslef at the thought of an IRL start with the Festival curves. ha ha ha. Maybe they'll just take that section out and let them run straight.
I believe that CARTNUT illustrated the proper I*L configuration for PIR in a previous post:
http://www.xpphotoalbum.com/data/4794/2422track.jpg
SurfaceUnits
07-21-04, 07:48 PM
Champ Car co-owner Paul Gentilozzi said he told city officials they would not be part of a bidding process to stage a race in Portland.
"We busted our tails to have a race there (in June), promoted it ourselves to show good faith and in essence they've just turned their backs on us," Gentilozzi tells the Oregonian newspaper.
"You can't play with sanctioning bodies. And that's what I felt like they were doing. Perhaps they were being played, too, because in my sincere opinion the IRL has no intention of really going there."
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/12160/
Question for area residents or rabid surfers: What is local media saying about this, especially Op-Ed and People's Voice (voice of the people, reader's write, etc.)? Are the politicians getting a thorough reaming?
Sean O'Gorman
07-22-04, 01:27 PM
Question for area residents or rabid surfers: What is local media saying about this, especially Op-Ed and People's Voice (voice of the people, reader's write, etc.)? Are the politicians getting a thorough reaming?
My guess is that they are like the rest of the country is when it comes to open wheel racing. They dont GAF. :(
Michaelhatesfans
07-22-04, 01:27 PM
Question for area residents or rabid surfers: What is local media saying about this, especially Op-Ed and People's Voice (voice of the people, reader's write, etc.)? Are the politicians getting a thorough reaming?
Even in the track's heyday, the local media have always been pretty much oblivious to racing. There are a LOT of racing fans in this town, but the local media never seemed to figure that out. There would be tons of coverage the week of the race, then good luck finding results for the following race. :saywhat: Hey, we've got the Trailgangsters to follow, after all. :shakehead
pkvracing12
07-22-04, 01:49 PM
I'll bet that the turn out for the earl race is about 12 thousand. and 8 thousand are give away tickets. Screw them we dont need them we still have a bunch of races that are profitable to our series and that what will keeps us alive. tony needs to realize one thing his crapwagons will not ever compare to what champcar has brought to that city and when that track goes under like nazareth the other tracks will know they made a huge mistake and beg for us to come back. FTG flame:
oddlycalm
07-22-04, 02:37 PM
Question for area residents or rabid surfers: What is local media saying about this, especially Op-Ed and People's Voice (voice of the people, reader's write, etc.)? Are the politicians getting a thorough reaming?
The papers have been silent since the day CCWS withdrew it's offer. The only noise are letters to the editor. However, Commisioner Francesconi has received a serious quanity of mail on the subject from what I have heard, and he's tried to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
While none of us can be certain of exactly what was said, it appears that Gentilozzi & company were probably looking for the door on this race. My guess is that they had lost some money and said to themselves "who needs this?" The city's witless handling of the process simply gave them an opportunity for a graceful exit, and they are now free to add a date to the calendar that will make them money as opposed to costing them money.
My own letter to Francesconi said as much. CART, and now CCWS, spent money to put on this event because the city has failed to do it's job and come up with event sponsors. Under such circumstances a wise man would smile and say thank you, not invite in their competitor for a bidding process. The fact that Francesconi's phone calls are going unanswered should make it clear how important he is, and by extension how important Portland is, in the broad scheme of things.
I'm sorry there won't be a race here in the future, but I understand. Nobody on this end picked up the ball and ran with it. They laid back and relied on the sanctioning body to gift it to them, and now that's over. Predictable outcome.
oc
fourrunner
07-22-04, 04:00 PM
I'm guessing that Politicians of any stripe are Dumbasses pretty much anywhere you go! :shakehead
devilmaster
07-22-04, 05:50 PM
I'm guessing that Politicians of any stripe are Dumbasses pretty much anywhere you go! :shakehead
ouch, bruce.
very ouch.
Hey TRDfan, I'll pull the knife out of your back if you grab the one in mine..... ;) :laugh:
Steve
fourrunner
07-22-04, 06:22 PM
ouch, bruce.
very ouch.
Hey TRDfan, I'll pull the knife out of your back if you grab the one in mine..... ;) :laugh:
Steve
With TWO exceptions of course ! ;)
Boy ....you can't insult anybody anymore! :rofl:
There goes that cabinet position I was hoping for!!
Spicoli
07-22-04, 06:50 PM
The papers have been silent since the day CCWS withdrew it's offer. The only noise are letters to the editor. However, Commisioner Francesconi has received a serious quanity of mail on the subject from what I have heard, and he's tried to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
While none of us can be certain of exactly what was said, it appears that Gentilozzi & company were probably looking for the door on this race. My guess is that they had lost some money and said to themselves "who needs this?" The city's witless handling of the process simply gave them an opportunity for a graceful exit, and they are now free to add a date to the calendar that will make them money as opposed to costing them money.
My own letter to Francesconi said as much. CART, and now CCWS, spent money to put on this event because the city has failed to do it's job and come up with event sponsors. Under such circumstances a wise man would smile and say thank you, not invite in their competitor for a bidding process. The fact that Francesconi's phone calls are going unanswered should make it clear how important he is, and by extension how important Portland is, in the broad scheme of things.
I'm sorry there won't be a race here in the future, but I understand. Nobody on this end picked up the ball and ran with it. They laid back and relied on the sanctioning body to gift it to them, and now that's over. Predictable outcome.
oc
OC is a smart man. sometimes reality sucks, but these guys are in this to make sure we have a series in the future. Something the ___king Gomer could never promise, if not for his endless amounts of family fortune and Yen.
Let's build the series RIGHT this time.
RaceChic
07-22-04, 07:01 PM
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/12160/
For some weird reason, this article has disappeared since this morning. Or is it just me? Why would it get removed? Any ideas? :confused:
Here is where it is posted at ChampWeb before it disappeared: Gentilozzi Explains Portland Breakdown (http://www.champweb.net/headline.php?t=h&id=25955)
Champ Car World Series principal Paul Gentilozzi says the organization pulled its offer to negotiate a three-year extension with Portland International Raceway because it believes the track was trying to force it into a bidding war for the event with the IRL. Gentilozzi told The Oregonian that CCWS refuses to take part in such a process.
"We won't do it," he said. "We busted our tails to have a race there (in June), promoted it ourselves to show good faith and in essence they've just turned their backs on us. You can't play with sanctioning bodies. And that's what I felt like they were doing. Perhaps they were being played, too, because in my sincere opinion the IRL has no intention of really going there."
Winston Wolfe
07-22-04, 11:35 PM
Screw them we dont need them we still have a bunch of races that are profitable to our series and that what will keeps us alive. . FTG flame:
Unfortunately we keep losing some of the natural terrain road courses that have helped make this series what it is... a diverse group of tracks, which require different skills that provide the best ALL AROUND racing series out there.
We cant go to ISC tracks, or SMI tracks, and if we keep blowing out on these others (RA, Mid-Ohio, Portland,) then where do we go from there ?
:confused:
Sean O'Gorman
07-22-04, 11:37 PM
We cant go to ISC tracks, or SMI tracks, and if we keep blowing out on these others (RA, Mid-Ohio, Portland,) then where do we go from there ?
More crappy street courses that do nothing to attract new followers to the sport, and international races in countries with no real fanbase, apparently. :rolleyes:
A crappy street course just provided the most entertaining race of the season so far.
I agree that natural terrain courses are an important part of the mix for the diehard fans, but I don't believe they're drawing new fans any more than anything else right now.
The owners need to keep a view of the big picture as well as the bottom line and decide just how much each venue is worth to them - not just in dollars and cents, but for the overall long term good of the series.
Right now the road courses are probably money losers, but that's offset by the fact that they appeal to the diehards and roadracing fans. It's a delicate balance that the folks in Portland just stepped up and kicked right over.
Sean O'Gorman
07-23-04, 12:53 AM
A crappy street course just provided the most entertaining race of the season so far.
I agree that natural terrain courses are an important part of the mix for the diehard fans, but I don't believe they're drawing new fans any more than anything else right now.
The owners need to keep a view of the big picture as well as the bottom line and decide just how much each venue is worth to them - not just in dollars and cents, but for the overall long term good of the series.
Right now the road courses are probably money losers, but that's offset by the fact that they appeal to the diehards and roadracing fans. It's a delicate balance that the folks in Portland just stepped up and kicked right over.
I never said Toronto was a crappy street course. Its miles ahead of what we saw at Monterrey, and what we'll see at Denver.
Steve99
07-23-04, 11:18 AM
More crappy street courses that do nothing to attract new followers to the sport, and international races in countries with no real fanbase, apparently. :rolleyes:
Sean, do you need to go find a Grand-Am forum to hang out on? :shakehead
Forza Lancia
07-23-04, 11:58 AM
I never said Toronto was a crappy street course. Its miles ahead of what we saw at Monterrey, and what we'll see at Denver.
Actually, Monterrey is a reasonably nice circuit, too. As it's set in a park, rather than downtown streets, it's significantly less constricted than, say, Vancouver or Denver. It has non-right-angle turns and grassy run-off areas, so drivers can overtake there without making banzai manouvers. That's not to say that there can never be processional races there, but Mid-Ohio sometimes had processional races, too.
Andrew Longman
07-23-04, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE=RaceChic]For some weird reason, this article has disappeared since this morning. Or is it just me? Why would it get removed? Any ideas? :confused: QUOTE]
Could it be that having their bluff called, PIR is quietly taking a different tune with CCWS?
If I were them, I don't think a one year deal with the IRL (who haven't drawn flys and haven't even proved they can produce a road racing car let alone road race itself) would be very attractive at any price. At least it could never be more attractive than the CCWS "bird in hand" alternative.
That's why if the IRL will take on two road races next year, my bet is they will go somewhere CCWS is not currently at. I'm guessing MO and The Glen.
SurfaceUnits
07-23-04, 02:53 PM
“Oh, so we should come back and spend our money if the other guy doesn’t come?” says Paul Gentilozzi, a Champ Car co-owner who feels spurned by Portland. “We’re not doing that. It would be difficult for us to get revved up and geared up to do it.”
Gentilozzi says Champ Car has explored other racing options in the Northwest, and he doesn’t deny interest in Seattle. He also says Champ Car will sign an extension to race in Vancouver, British Columbia.
Andrew Longman
07-23-04, 03:17 PM
“Gentilozzi says Champ Car has explored other racing options in the Northwest, and he doesn’t deny interest in Seattle. He also says Champ Car will sign an extension to race in Vancouver, British Columbia.
My son has a PlayStation game, I believe its Underground, Need for Speed that has an AWSOME street course through Seattle. Rips up/downhill through the old wharf district. Talk about natural terrain.
Just a thought :gomer:
devilmaster
07-23-04, 03:28 PM
My son has a PlayStation game, I believe its Underground, Need for Speed that has an AWSOME street course through Seattle. Rips up/downhill through the old wharf district. Talk about natural terrain.
Just a thought :gomer:
C'mon now Andrew..... we all know better...... 'my son has a playstation game'
ya ya, uh-huh...... you seem to know alot of info on a game your son has.....
;) :D
Steve
oddlycalm
07-23-04, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately we keep losing some of the natural terrain road courses that have helped make this series what it is... a diverse group of tracks, which require different skills that provide the best ALL AROUND racing series out there.
Agreed, but I don't think we can fault CCWS, as they went the extra mile with Portland, and only drew the line when they were being played for fools. As for the other natural terrain courses, CART pretty much made a mess that's going to be a hard swallow for the new guys. Laguna Seca has been allowed to dwindle beyond viability, they walked on MO and CART's conflict with RA will be hard for many to forget.
There is no doubt that the EARL strategy is to block CCWS from ovals and natural terrain road courses. CCWS will need some time to get it's legs under it. Unfortunately, the clock is ticking.
oc
Andrew Longman
07-23-04, 06:47 PM
C'mon now Andrew..... we all know better...... 'my son has a playstation game'
ya ya, uh-huh...... you seem to know alot of info on a game your son has.....
;) :D
Steve
I wish it were true.
He has F1, NASCAR and Underground games and I suck on them all. I can hardly complete a lap, while my son routinely beats Schumachers actual pole time on a given week. THAT I can't figure out. :confused:
As for Portland, I just have a funny feeling that story isn't over.
....while my son routinely beats Schumachers actual pole time on a given week. THAT I can't figure out. :confused:
I foresee large tire bills in your future! :laugh:
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