Junior injured in ALMS practice crash

[TRDfan]

Was watching the Touring Car race when they broke in that Jr had a practice crash in the Corvette. Big ball of flames, but the early reports are that he suffered a minor knee injury and some burns.

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?NewsID=252

[Brickman]

Watching him in the car when the in car camera shows the car igniting was downright scary. The clueless corner worker spraying the car from behind the tires instead of getting to the driver made it that much dramatic. Jr. finally flopped out of the car. Thank God for doors, he never would have made it through the window.

Something to say the least.

[nrc]

Was Ironhead Jr. wearing an open-faced helmet?

I was surprised that the Frances ever let this idea get off the ground.

[Brickman]

Was Ironhead Jr. wearing an open-faced helmet?

I was surprised that the Frances ever let this idea get off the ground.

No. He stopped after his dad died. Sears point were selling Jr tickets for $8

[Ziggy]

I thought Junior was Al Unser

who is this other clown?

[Sean O'Gorman]

And to think, when NASCAR was there a few weeks ago, they didn't even give the corner workers fire extinguishers. Imagine if that happened to Dale in a Cup car instead of an ALMS car. :shakehead

Unfortunately, this should put an end to NASCAR drivers partipating in road races. Bet there are going to be alot of angry NASCAR fans at the track today too.

[chop456]

I thought Junior was Al Unser

who is this other clown?

Dale Jr's in a Corvette w/ Boris Said this weekend.

[JoeBob]

Wow!

I can't remember the last time I saw a car ignite like that. The in-car camera footage was terrifying.

As for the corner worker - he was wearing short sleeves. Better to do what he can from behind the tire barrier than try to be a hero and give the rescue teams two injured people to work on.

[Rob]

I can't remember the last time I saw a car ignite like that. The in-car camera footage was terrifying.
I'm thinking maybe the ALMS Corvette at Laguna Seca last year or the year before. At least I think that's where it was, because I'm thinking it was coming out of the Corkscrew.

[RaceChic]

Video (http://radius.ldd4life.com/images/junior.wmv)

:eek:

[jonovision_man]

They showed it at the start of ALMS coverage on CBS... wowsah. Cold tires and wheelspin from a big-ass Corvette engine did it, back to cup cars Dale! ;)

[TorontoWorker]

Wow!

I can't remember the last time I saw a car ignite like that. The in-car camera footage was terrifying.

As for the corner worker - he was wearing short sleeves. Better to do what he can from behind the tire barrier than try to be a hero and give the rescue teams two injured people to work on.

Quite right JB and further, the workers may have been under orders NOT to go trackside for ANY reason. I know this sounds dumb but with the sky high costs of track insurance these days, many tracks are having to sign papers stating that their workers will be instructed not to enter the track surface or leave their stations unless there is a full course yellow, (and some tracks won't even allow workers trackside during full courses). Many tracks such as my own home track (Mosport) have "rapid response" vehicles and crews for major crashes located at 3 points around the track. If the car is on the racing surface - it's out of bounds to us. If the race car is off track - it is at the descretion of the corner senior as to how the situation is to be handled.

These rules may seem to go against our wishes and our belief that we can get the job done safely - it's what we have to live with or we'll be asked to leave if we refuse to follow race controls direction.

I can't blame race track owners after attending races where two of my co-workers were killed by race cars, (CART - 1990 and 1996). Insurance wankers always get their way in the end. They love taking your money but not paying it out!

[JoeBob]

IIRC, at all ChampCar events, Corner Workers are not allowed across the wall unless instructed to do so by the ChampCar Safety Team.

I'm sure one of the folks here who works as a flagger can confirm this.

[Brickman]

IIRC, at all ChampCar events, Corner Workers are not allowed across the wall unless instructed to do so by the ChampCar Safety Team.

I'm sure one of the folks here who works as a flagger can confirm this.

Regardless, Jr. would have been toast (no pun intended) if he hadn't opened the door and flopped to the ground. The worker then went to his aid anyways. Workers do a hell of a job, I just think they could have moved toward the driver a bit sooner.

[fourrunner]

I thought Junior was Al Unser

who is this other clown?



I'm guessing when you retire, it's open season on your nickname ! ;)

Another indignity to Little Al !


If he stayed in Champ Car he could have retired with class, instead I can't get the "Dracula Outfit" out of my mind!

But I stray from topic!

[Racewriter]

Cold tires and wheelspin from a big-ass Corvette engine did it, back to cup cars Dale! ;)

:shakehead :shakehead

How moronic. A Cup car carries about 200 more horses, and 150 more foot-pounds of torque, on 3" narrower tires than the Vette.

According to Speed, a halfshaft broke.



Dale Earnhardt Jr's debut in the American Le Mans Series race at the Sears Point Infineon Raceway ended before the start of the race today. During the warmup, the #8 Corvette Racing went up in flames at turn 8 on the 2.53-mile, 12-turn road racing circuit.

Based on early reports, it appears that the halfshaft broke on the Corvette C5-R, sending it spinning into the barriers, directly at the corner workers' station, with the rear of the car making hard contact.

The car immediately exploded into flames, but Earnhardt was able to get our of the car rapidly with the assistance of the corner workers. He was treated at the scene, and walked over to the medical gurney under his own power, although favoring his previously injured knee.

On-track action was immediately stopped by red flags shown at all corner worker stations. Response was immediate by both the SCCA corner workers and the track fire units.

Earnhardt was was transported to the track medical center for observation before being airlifted to UC Davis Medical Center for treatment moderate burns to his face and lower extremities.

The car was destroyed beyond repair due to the fire.

[Chitowncartfreak]

This is one of the reasons I don't like to see Cup drivers participating in the Busch Series. With all the money that the sponsors are paying and with all the work the Cup teams put into preparing top-notch equipment, it is somewhat silly to see a driver risking it in a series that they are not supporting. There have been a few Cup drivers injured in NBS over the years (Benson comes to mind, I know there have been others.)

[Brickman]

He hit just after turn 7, the car ended up about where the crossroad from the drag strip is. He hit the concrete just before the tire barriers were in front of the flag position.

http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/images/sears-point.gif

[theunions]

This is one of the reasons I don't like to see Cup drivers participating in the Busch Series. With all the money that the sponsors are paying and with all the work the Cup teams put into preparing top-notch equipment, it is somewhat silly to see a driver risking it in a series that they are not supporting. There have been a few Cup drivers injured in NBS over the years (Benson comes to mind, I know there have been others.)

Yup...Steve Park basically paid for it with his career. He did NOT look right when I looked into his eyes pre-race at Mansfield.

[jonovision_man]

:shakehead :shakehead

How moronic. A Cup car carries about 200 more horses, and 150 more foot-pounds of torque, on 3" narrower tires than the Vette.

According to Speed, a halfshaft broke.

This is what the Corvette team were reporting on the ALMS broadcast (cold tires, lost it), I figured they were knew what they were talking about. Seems not, that's their bad, not mine.

[TedN]

I understand the fire was caused by a broken filler tube when the car hit the barrier. Given that the car was on full tanks, anyone know why ALMS would allow fuel to be sloshing around in the filler tube?

Ted

[Methanolandbrats]

I understand the fire was caused by a broken filler tube when the car hit the barrier. Given that the car was on full tanks, anyone know why ALMS would allow fuel to be sloshing around in the filler tube?

Ted Probably broke below the check valve.

[Rogue Leader]

This is one of the reasons I don't like to see Cup drivers participating in the Busch Series. With all the money that the sponsors are paying and with all the work the Cup teams put into preparing top-notch equipment, it is somewhat silly to see a driver risking it in a series that they are not supporting. There have been a few Cup drivers injured in NBS over the years (Benson comes to mind, I know there have been others.)

Look at history... Jim Clark died in a Formula 2 race, there have been others also. I do support Jr trying his hand at sportscars, but Im sure he will now question doing it again.

As for Cup Driverss running BGN races the only thing I dont like about that is that they skew the points standings and can make it hard for some of the regulars to earn points and move up.

[Sean O'Gorman]

As for Cup Driverss running BGN races the only thing I dont like about that is that they skew the points standings and can make it hard for some of the regulars to earn points and move up.

Well if they can't beat the Cup guys, then they don't deserve to move up.

[SteveH]

This is what the Corvette team were reporting on the ALMS broadcast (cold tires, lost it), I figured they were knew what they were talking about. Seems not, that's their bad, not mine.

Yep, I heard the same thing reported on Speed this afternoon. Until I read RW's post about the halfshaft, I thought it was cold tires.


BTW - 4runner - Al's retirement had nothing to do with labeling him a clown.

[oddlycalm]

These rules may seem to go against our wishes and our belief that we can get the job done safely - it's what we have to live with

True, and they also take it as a given that modern race cars no longer burst into flames. This incident shows that's a wrong assumption. Same with Ralph at the USGP. If fire had erupted right away, Ralph would have been a crispy critter right in front of tens of thousands of horrified fans, just like the "good" old days at Indy. Serious fires are certainly a rare occurence in these days of 8th generation fuel cells, but it can still happen, and people need to plan accordingly.

oc

[theunions]

Good grief...this even was treated as a HARD NEWS headline to open my local NBC affiliate's 5 pm news... :shakehead

[Lizzerd]

Good grief...this even was treated as a HARD NEWS headline to open my local NBC affiliate's 5 pm news... :shakehead

I didn't watch any news this evening, but that doesn't surprise me. DE Jr. is nearly on the same plane (in his realm) as Michael Jordan was when his father was murdered. Remember how much hard news time that consumed?

RACER magazine this year proclaimed Junior as the "most powerful and influential figure in motorsports." Well ahead of TG, Bernie, Mario, Pmpske, etc.

[Fio1]

To me the hit didn't look that bad. Not bad enough for the fuel tank to split. This is very disturbing. In this day and age, a car should not burst into flames like that. Little E was more then likely in second gear when he hit....

I think the last time I saw a car burst into flames like that was Soheil Ayari at Le Mans in a Viper some years ago. The difference is that Ayari was at one of the fastest parts of the track.

[SteveH]

The accident caused the filler pipe to be separated from the fuel cell. The fuel in the filler pipe was what originally leaked out and started the fire. Since the fuel cell was compromised, I'm sure it was easily ignited.

Had this accident happened a few laps later the outcome would have been entirely different, certainly much less dangerous.

[FCYTravis]

Shall we look at the facts before we bash the marshals there? :shakehead

Unless you're willing to require that every marshal wear a full firesuit, headsock and breathing gear, there is NO WAY that the Turn 8 Flags crew could have responded to that car quicker than they did. Watch the multi-angle replays. The gasoline spilled out all over the tinder-dry grass, creating a massive conflagration that very nearly reached into the flag station.

The marshals there had to put out the ground fire, or at least begin to contain it for self-preservation, before they could think about getting to the driver. As it was, watch the responder leap over fire to reach the car.

When you're marshalling, Priority One is yourself, Priority Two are your fellow marshals and then and only then comes Priority Three, the drivers. While marshalling certainly involves taking risks, it doesn't require that you commit suicide by running headlong into a gigantic gasoline fireball armed only with a 10-pound powder bottle.

"Clueless cornerworker" my ass. :mad: You, Brickman, are the clueless one.

Travis Mason-Bushman
SFRSCCA Flags Team

[FanofMario]

Even though I'm not a "Little E" fan, I admire him to be road racing on a off weekend. I can't believe some of you are questioning the guy for being there. :rolleyes: I find it refreshing that a guy wants to do something else. I hope he will continue to do road races---but I doubt that will be the fact now.

That was some of the scariest video I have seen in a while. The cockpit camera was particularily vivid. Hope the cause is found and corrected soon.

[Lizzerd]

"Clueless cornerworker" my ass. :mad: You, Brickman, are the clueless one.


:thumbup:

[JohnHKart]

Dale jr was still wearing an open faced helmet for quite awhile after his dad died....I was surprised to just find out last week that he was wearing a closed helmet. But glad he finally came to his senses. He stopped wearing the open faced helmet in 2002, because the HANS and Hutchens devices didn't work well with the open faced helmet

John

[Rogue Leader]

I have to agree with Travis about the cornerworkers if youre in plain clothes theres not much you can do, and with fuel everywhere its an invitation to become barbecued. As a Fireman I've learned something thats hard for people to understand. They were screwed when you got there. Youre no hero if you become the second victim. Do what you can but keep yourself and your co-workers safe, youre no use to anybody if they have to carry you out too.

That said I hope Jr continues to do same road racing. I have a LOT more respect for him now that he can go out and run road races in those cars and be competitive in both series. It shows his versatility as a driver and that he knows how to do more than turn left.

[RTKar]

Yikes, just saw the "highlight" on ESPN. He's very lucky the car wasn't imbedded in a tire barrier.

[Madmaxfan2]

Clueless CNN HEADLINE NEWS said it was a NASACR race that Junior's crash occurred in. Tells you how NASCAR has dominentated the sport in this country.

[IlliniRacer]

Clueless CNN HEADLINE NEWS said it was a NASACR race that Junior's crash occurred in. Tells you how NASCAR has dominentated the sport in this country.

NASCAR.com is calling it a Grand-Am race :shakehead

[Andrew Longman]

I once saw it reported that Jr was obligated by DEI contract to use an open face helmet because from a marketing perspective it helped to see his face. (notice how in commercials NASCAR drivers most often have open face to make them recognizable and also they can speak better to the camera?).

When his dad died he wents to a closed face helmet. If true, his dad's death may have saved his life yesterday.

If he only when to the closed face helmet because the HANS/Hutchinson device works better that way, then his dad's death may still have saved him because his death is what spurred NASCAR to finally require some sort of neck restraint.

Ironic.

As far as drivers racing other series, let 'em do it. They're racers that's what they do. A lot of these guys would be and are racing sprints during the week or what have you if they can. Kenny Schraeder used to/does race 3-4 times a week.

Its better for the sport in general to see guys crossing over. I'd hate to see things get to corporately controlled.

[rabbit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't another Vette erupt in flames a couple years ago? I don't remember the race or the driver. If so, sounds like they may need to take a look at their fuel system.

[Brickman]

Shall we look at the facts before we bash the marshals there? :shakehead

Unless you're willing to require that every marshal wear a full firesuit, headsock and breathing gear, there is NO WAY that the Turn 8 Flags crew could have responded to that car quicker than they did. Watch the multi-angle replays. The gasoline spilled out all over the tinder-dry grass, creating a massive conflagration that very nearly reached into the flag station.

The marshals there had to put out the ground fire, or at least begin to contain it for self-preservation, before they could think about getting to the driver. As it was, watch the responder leap over fire to reach the car.

When you're marshalling, Priority One is yourself, Priority Two are your fellow marshals and then and only then comes Priority Three, the drivers. While marshalling certainly involves taking risks, it doesn't require that you commit suicide by running headlong into a gigantic gasoline fireball armed only with a 10-pound powder bottle.

"Clueless cornerworker" my ass. :mad: You, Brickman, are the clueless one.

Travis Mason-Bushman
SFRSCCA Flags Team

The guy only moves to Jr. aid when Jr. flopped out. What if he didn't flop out of the car? I guess at least he saved the weeds?


"it doesn't require that you commit suicide by running headlong into a gigantic gasoline fireball" But taking that 10-pound powder bottle toward the driver would certainly been a good idea.

[Chitowncartfreak]

Even though I'm not a "Little E" fan, I admire him to be road racing on a off weekend. I can't believe some of you are questioning the guy for being there. :rolleyes: I find it refreshing that a guy wants to do something else. I hope he will continue to do road races---but I doubt that will be the fact now.

That was some of the scariest video I have seen in a while. The cockpit camera was particularily vivid. Hope the cause is found and corrected soon.

As a fan of racing, I don't have a problem with Little E trying something else on an off-weekend. Certainly, drivers in the 1960's and 70's routinely did this. However, racing has evolved into a business-driven marketing platform (like it or not) and the demands and expectations placed on the drivers are incredibly high. It's surprising that team owners allow their drivers to moonlight in other series knowing what the potential downside is. I believe this is one of the reasons F1 requires their drivers to sign an agreement as part of their superlicense not to participate in other series. Having said that, I don't have as much of a problem with Little E participating in ALMS as I do the Busch Series. At least ALMS is considered a top-level racing series and not a feeder series. It's always bothered me that Cup drivers and their owners would willingly want to participate in a lesser series and subject themselves to the additional risk that is inherent with oval racing.

[JoeBob]

Brickman,

You're way off base on this one. The cornerworker went to aid the driver when it was safe for him to do so. There are at least three posters in this thread who have spent time working corners and/or fighting fires. All three of them explained exactly what the priorities are in a situation like this. I'd love to see how your credentials stack up against theirs.

As for the media coverage, the crash was all over CNN this morning. The most interesting comment I heard was, "This really shows how much safer Earnhardt's stock car is compared to the Le Mans cars. The stock cars hit walls at much higher speeds, and never burst into flames."

[Racewriter]

BTW - where are all the outcries about the ALMS' lack of regard for safety? When NASCAR fires, not as bad as this one, happened - all we heard was now bad NASCAR was.

[jonovision_man]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't another Vette erupt in flames a couple years ago? I don't remember the race or the driver. If so, sounds like they may need to take a look at their fuel system.

You're right, it was O'Connel at Laguna. Don't remember the year.

[Brickman]

Brickman,

You're way off base on this one. The cornerworker went to aid the driver when it was safe for him to do so. There are at least three posters in this thread who have spent time working corners and/or fighting fires. All three of them explained exactly what the priorities are in a situation like this. I'd love to see how your credentials stack up against theirs.

As for the media coverage, the crash was all over CNN this morning. The most interesting comment I heard was, "This really shows how much safer Earnhardt's stock car is compared to the Le Mans cars. The stock cars hit walls at much higher speeds, and never burst into flames."


IMHO It wasn't any safer to move toward Jr's aid when he did than before. He was still leaping over burning grass. I respect the opinions of others on the topic. They have far more credentials than me, just giving my 2 cents.

[RacinM3]

Corner workers aren't firemen. They're there to alert drivers to track conditions. As a race driver, I would consider any assistance from a corner worker while my car was in flames to be an extra added bonus. I'd like to see how many people here would rush INTO a fire like that when their brains are definitely programmed to get AWAY.

It's easy to talk (or type) about what you'd do when there's not scorching heat in your face. Those guys acted absolutely appropriately yesterday. :thumbup:

Anyone who says different is wrong.

[Winston Wolfe]

Corner workers aren't firemen. They're there to alert drivers to track conditions.
(edit)
Anyone who says different is wrong.

Brickman = WRONG on this one....

Recent follow up posts have demonstrated Brickman-esque attempt to wiggle out of first posted statement, and deflect any sort of responsibility of said statement in an attempt to resort to typical posting behaviors, which many in the "Brickman Fab Club" love to see.

btw: What Racin' said.... any attempt to save\assist\rescue Jr. were a nice extra, NOT a requirement. Armed with a 10lb fire extinguisher vs. unknown quantity of burning fuel on dry grass with other cars racing \ driving by, certainly does not equal "clueless" corner worker. :shakehead

[Steve99]

BTW - where are all the outcries about the ALMS' lack of regard for safety? When NASCAR fires, not as bad as this one, happened - all we heard was now bad NASCAR was.

Look at how quick help arrived and you will have your answer. :shakehead

[RaceGrrl]

IMHO It wasn't any safer to move toward Jr's aid when he did than before. He was still leaping over burning grass. I respect the opinions of others on the topic. They have far more credentials than me, just giving my 2 cents.

What you're saying is that if you were in the marshall's position, you'd risk your own life by running unprotected through gasoline-soaked flaming grass to reach a driver whose firesuit does offer him some protection from the flames?


How can you possibly think that your opinion about whether it was safe carries any weight? You're being rather "silva-esque" here. Three or four people who are experienced fire/rescue/course marshalls have told you you're wrong. You may be giving your opinion, but it certainly isn't worth 2 cents.

[FCYTravis]

Hey Brick, let me know when you've inhaled a couple lungfuls of dry chem powder extinguishing a car fire, k? :rolleyes:

We are not fully-trained and equipped firefighters. We are race officials who have a primary responsibility of communicating course conditions to the drivers and to Race Control. We happen to have a secondary role, serving as first-responders to accidents. We don't have so much as firesuits, and I suspect you'd see a revolt if you ever required cornerworkers to wear Nomex (ever stood in the blazing sun for 8 hours? You get hot even in shirtsleeves) - in short, we are not professional rescue personnel.

When we respond, we do so at great personal risk of injury or death. Yet you see fit to ease back in your armchair and say that those two workers, Michael Cantu and John Schmale (himself a race driver), could have responded to a fully-engulfed exploded fuel-cell fireball Corvette any quicker than they did. Yeah, Brick, let's see how you react when a car flies damn near into your station, splashes raw gasoline all over the place and explodes in milliseconds into the biggest car fire I have ever seen.

Dale lived. That's thanks to his firesuit, the car's safety features and the best damn road-racing marshals in the business.

I've said enough. Thanks, the rest of you, for the support.

[Dave99]

You're right, it was O'Connel at Laguna. Don't remember the year.
2002. I believe that one was due to electrical.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=4091257&a=31077815&p=68889477

[FCYTravis]

From what I've heard, O'Connell had car-to-car contact earlier which knocked the exhaust system out of whack and damaged the heat shielding. The hot exhaust pipes caught the carbon fiber bodywork on fire...

Come down to any SFR race and we'll show you the photo album from that little hot Vette...

[jonovision_man]

:shakehead :shakehead

How moronic. A Cup car carries about 200 more horses, and 150 more foot-pounds of torque, on 3" narrower tires than the Vette.

According to Speed, a halfshaft broke.

I saw this quote and I thought back to your post, couldn't help but bring it up here. :)

Jr. going on and on about how great the Corvette is (http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=9&nid=95956)

"The car is tremendously different from anything that I drive in the NEXTEL Cup Series,” he said, “and in my opinion it might be one of the greatest cars I've ever driven, just a whole lot of fun to drive."

"Also, the acceleration out of the corner and how much acceleration these cars have out of the corner, I can't believe how fast these cars accelerate out of the corner."

[jonovision_man]

2002. I believe that one was due to electrical.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=4091257&a=31077815&p=68889477

Signed? Nice touch. :)

[rabbit]

Scary pics. :eek: (http://www.nascar.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2004/07/18/junior_lemans/content_1.html)

http://www.nascar.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2004/07/18/junior_lemans/photo5.jpg

[RichK]

Amazing how the press isn't getting anything right! Those pics (thanks, Rabbit) are labeled: "Earnhardt Jr's Accident at Le Mans".

[rabbit]

Amazing how the press isn't getting anything right! Those pics (thanks, Rabbit) are labeled: "Earnhardt Jr's Accident at Le Mans".The press? Heck, that's from nascar.com. (Not that I expect anyone at NASCAR to know anything about auto racing. They're in the entertainment industry.)

[Brickman]

I just posted my observation, and don't recall trying to "wiggle" out of anything. When someone said "Brickman = WRONG on this one" I don't disagree that I can't be wrong even on this issue, never said I walk on water or that my opinion is always right. The guy ran to Jr's aid and I thought he should have from the start, if that's not proper procedure than it isn't.

[RacinM3]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, Brickman. You said he should have from the start. If you look at that shot above, the car IMMEDIATELY went up in flames. What are the workers supposed to do? Run in unprotected and reach into the conflagration, remove the driver's window net, belts, neck restraint, and pull him out? They'd be on fire in a heartbeat, too.

I hate to say it, but Jr. was on his own in the first seconds of that wreck. The car just went up so damn fast. I believe if he hadn't been able to get out, he would have burned to death yesterday, and still it would not have been the CW's faults. Thankfully he did get out, and the CW immediately realized he was reasonably clear of the flames, and IMO the CW bravely went over to pull him away from the car.

It must have been damn hot, too.

When a car goes up that fast, there's only so much that can be done 'til the fire crew gets there. A little 10 or 20 lb. extinguisher won't do a whole lot with all that fuel.

[Rogue Leader]

Those little dry chem extinguishers are almost as useless as a baseball bat at a football game in a massive fuel fire like that. In that situation i would save it to hit the driver or the cockpit of the car with because you wont take out much of that fuel, but at least you can put him/her out and prevent the fire from encroaching on them too far. You also have to be gentle with it or the fuel will splash back on you. Those fires are the hottest but at least theres an open space. However if the cornerworkers got any closer than they did the heat exposure would melt any plastic or polyester in their clothing to their skin within a few seconds, im sure that the guy that eventually got to him probably had some minor burns, or at least a real nasty sunburn.

Sory but even as an experienced fireman youd be hard pressed to get me to get much closer than they did. I have seen what happens when you do its not pretty, and the guy has a fire suit on, the passenger compartment was not damaged at all so you gotta hope that he has the presence of mind to get out. Race cars are designed for quick escape for that very reason.

[Ed_Severson]

I don't disagree that I can't be wrong even on this issue

"I don't disagree" = "I agree"

"I agree that I can't be wrong even on this issue ..."

Freudian slip? You make the call! :rolleyes:

[TorontoWorker]

I might also say that the guys with the bottles might have been worried that the Com person, their fellow worker was at risk from the grass fire. One of the most important jobs trackside besides using the yellow flag, is to get "that call out" over the net. Without the correct information getting to race control, many minutes can be wasted that could result is further injuries or worse. I thought the crew did a great job. How many of us have had their stations catch on fire and STILL jumped over flames without wearing Nomex to get to the driver? I've had lots of weird stuff happen to me trackside but I've never almost had our phone station burn down! :eek:

My hat is off to this crew - I'd work with them anyday.

:thumbup: - from a CASC/ASN worker

[theunions]

The press? Heck, that's from nascar.com. (Not that I expect anyone at NASCAR to know anything about auto racing. They're in the entertainment industry.)

:rofl:

I guess that explains why today's installment of "Inside Nextel Cup Racing" is giving more camera time to an in-studio appearance by Edwin McCain or whatever his name is than to Junior's accident.

[nrc]

I just posted my observation, and don't recall trying to "wiggle" out of anything. When someone said "Brickman = WRONG on this one" I don't disagree that I can't be wrong even on this issue, never said I walk on water or that my opinion is always right. The guy ran to Jr's aid and I thought he should have from the start, if that's not proper procedure than it isn't.

Do you have a 12 year old son who hijacked your keyboard, Brick? I don't have the first clue what you're trying to say here. Normally you're more articulate even if you are wrong. :)

[JT265]

IMHO They have far more credentials than me, just giving my 2 cents.


I believe, like heroPissBoy, you've again shown up with the wrong currency.

Great post JB. :thumbup:

[theunions]

Entertainment Tonight felt compelled to lead in with how "a racing legend crashes just like his dad" :shakehead

Brick, I hope that wasn't you who left Despain with that angry, angry voice mail blasting the corner workers... :gomer:

[Brickman]

Entertainment Tonight felt compelled to lead in with how "a racing legend crashes just like his dad" :shakehead

Brick, I hope that wasn't you who left Despain with that angry, angry voice mail blasting the corner workers... :gomer:

No it wasn't me. I'm not angry about anything. ;)

[Fio1]

The should have a deal that sets the on board fire extingushers off automatically when fire breaks out, not when the driver or outside help pulls the deal. If Junior would have knocked out completely, this accident would have ended in a different and tragic way. :shakehead

Maybe this accident will lead to changes like his dad's accident lead to the mandating of the Hans....

For sure the marshalls did an awesome job. I don't know what they could have done if Dale didn't jump out of the car, but I am 100% sure they would have tried to do something, anything. By the way they reacted, I know they would have done everything in their power to get him out. Those guys are the true winners of the race weekend! :thumbup:

[Michaelhatesfans]

For sure the marshalls did an awesome job. I don't know what they could have done if Dale didn't jump out of the car, but I am 100% sure they would have tried to do something, anything. By the way they reacted, I know they would have done everything in their power to get him out. Those guys are the true winners of the race weekend! :thumbup:
No doubt they would have wanted to help, but the reality of having no protective clothing and to try to grab the door release, open the door and lean in to release the belts, then brace yourself while you try to drag him out over the roll bars... hell, I was having a hard time moving some coals around in my BBQ tonight with 10 inch tongs.

If Jr. had been unconscious, it would have been a matter of waiting for someone else to arrive with fireproof clothing and firefighting supplies. You can survive that wait, I suppose - Berger surviving his fire at Imola is the best example - but I'd rather not think about it too much.

[Rogue Leader]

The should have a deal that sets the on board fire extingushers off automatically when fire breaks out, not when the driver or outside help pulls the deal. If Junior would have knocked out completely, this accident would have ended in a different and tragic way. :shakehead

Maybe this accident will lead to changes like his dad's accident lead to the mandating of the Hans....

For sure the marshalls did an awesome job. I don't know what they could have done if Dale didn't jump out of the car, but I am 100% sure they would have tried to do something, anything. By the way they reacted, I know they would have done everything in their power to get him out. Those guys are the true winners of the race weekend! :thumbup:

The problem with that was that it was the ground underneath the car that was on fire... the car didnt actually ignite until afterwards. The flames in the cockpit actually subsided after the initial explosion (probably why junior was able to get out). What would be nice in that situation is a fire supression system that could spray under the car, youd really only be able to use Halon or something similar on that because any liquid or dry chem based extinguishment has the potential to leak all over the race track if theres a malfunction.

In reality this is much more of a freak accident, you really dont see explosions like this in racing anymore... but hey its racing... anything can happen!

[Steve99]

RL, does Halon work well if it is not in an enclosed space?

unions, what did the angry voicemail say about the cornerworkers?

I'm not even sure how Entertainment Tonight thought the story was related to their usual beat.

[Madmaxfan2]

The problem with Halon once exposed to a fire, the gas becomes toxic, which is why people are told to immediately evacuate with a Halon system is activated. Halon's biggest feature is it can be used in big computer rooms to extinguish fires with electrical current present.

[Rogue Leader]

yes halon is toxic... and the only reason I would think it to be useful in this case is since under the car is "kinda" enclosed it would work. But yeah the whole toxic thing would suck. And yes halon needs to be in close range to the fire or it dissipates and is ineffective.

The thing about halon is as mad max said it can extinguish the fire by smothering it while causing NO damage whatsoever to anything else. In reality i wasnt really right as Halon is NOT the best answer to this problem. However if something similar were available it would work well. The problem of slippery stuff leaking onto the track is worse than the threat of fire.

[FCYTravis]

A message from SCCA President and CEO Steve Johnson

As we all have watched the crash of Dale Earnhardt Jr., I once again am in awe of the self-sacrificing commitment that our SCCA workers display.

Our workers don’t care if it’s Dale Jr. or John Doe. They continuously put their lives on the line for any driver in trouble.

The subject of corner working was on SPEED Channel’s Wind Tunnel last night. Greg Creamer, both a SPEED commentator and licensed SCCA F&C worker, was the guest to explain the Earnhardt incident and the excellent response by our corner workers.

All I can say for the gentleman that called in and questioned our workers’ actions—You can only hope that if you are in an accident on the highway and need assistance, that an SCCA member drives by. I can guarantee they will help you in any way possible.

Great job Turn Station Eight at Infineon, and great job to all of our workers. We are proud of you!

[theunions]

A message from SCCA President and CEO Steve Johnson

The subject of corner working was on SPEED Channel’s Wind Tunnel last night. Greg Creamer, both a SPEED commentator and licensed SCCA F&C worker, was the guest to explain the Earnhardt incident and the excellent response by our corner workers.

All I can say for the gentleman that called in and questioned our workers’ actions—You can only hope that if you are in an accident on the highway and need assistance, that an SCCA member drives by. I can guarantee they will help you in any way possible.


unions, what did the angry voicemail say about the cornerworkers?

I don't have it saved so this is all from memory, but the guy (very loudly) basically accused them of gross incompetence (my paraphrasing) and believed in no uncertain terms they both should've dove in to retrieve Junior first and foremost regardless of personal risk (without ever acknowledging what type of clothing they were or weren't wearing or what their specific corner responsibilities were).

Despain then had Creamer, who had spent Sunday corner working (at Mosport?), thoroughly debunk the guy's position, using many of the same arguments already presented here.

[Ziggy]

1485 hits on a thread about a semi talented hack who got burnt because he was not wearing a head sock or fire proof underware.

SeventhGear did close, didnt it????

What I want to know

Will Little 'E be a runnin' at the Brickyard?
Did he burn his "little'er e" so bad that he wont be able to pass on the superior racing genetics?
Will he ever road race again (cause it aint a race if one of these slackjaw's aint in it)
Did his wallet burn up?

[RacinM3]

Ziggy, my guess is that if his little e'r had burned up, it would have been a small fire, but if his wallet had burned up it would have been a conflagration that would have consumed not only everyone at Infineon but also everything in a 15 mile radius.