View Full Version : 3 P1 cars?????
Racing Truth
07-18-04, 07:30 PM
3 P1 at Sonoma? 3???? That's bloody pathetic. And, of course, despite an early challenge by the Dyson car, another Audi cruise. Wow. Color me unimpressed.
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Don Panoz: God's gift to....uh, let me think, God's gift to... Grand-Am. :shakehead
Sean O'Gorman
07-18-04, 07:33 PM
But, but, wait until after Le Mans...I mean Petit Le Mans...I mean 2005...I mean...
Don Panoz has done just about as much good for sportscar racing in North America as Tony George has for champcars. For a guy who made a bazillion bucks in the pharmX industry it is pretty weird that he would follow the failed model of hanging a series around a single race.
Methanolandbrats
07-18-04, 08:51 PM
Don Panoz has done just about as much good for sportscar racing in North America as Tony George has for champcars. For a guy who made a bazillion bucks in the pharmX industry it is pretty weird that he would follow the failed model of hanging a series around a single race. I don't know about that, he is fighting the good fight. That said, pure racing is really in the ****ter in the USA.
Sean O'Gorman
07-18-04, 08:53 PM
I don't know about that, he is fighting the good fight. That said, pure racing is really in the ****ter in the USA.
How is he fighting the good fight? Hes obviously clueless on how to run a viable series, and is only contributing to the fact that "pure racing" is really in the shtter.
I like the DPs, but I think it'll be a sad day in American sports car racing if they are the only form of prototypes left in this country.
Racewriter
07-18-04, 08:59 PM
The Audis are how many years old now?
Pure racing my @ss.
I don't know about that, he is fighting the good fight. That said, pure racing is really in the ****ter in the USA.
Fighting the good fight? Panoz bought the Panoz Roadster company and moved it to GA so his kid would have something to do with his life. Then he got interested in LeMans and started ALMS and ELMS and screwed up with both. Would anybody with any racing knowledge actually spend money on a front engined LMP? The guy has no clue.
Methanolandbrats
07-18-04, 09:22 PM
Fighting the good fight? Panoz bought the Panoz Roadster company and moved it to GA so his kid would have something to do with his life. Then he got interested in LeMans and started ALMS and ELMS and screwed up with both. Would anybody with any racing knowledge actually spend money on a front engined LMP? The guy has no clue. At least he's fighting the Cartel, nobody else is. I'm really thinking it's time to throw in the towel on American Racing. The CART and IMSA years may have been the high water mark that will stand forever.
At least he's fighting the Cartel, nobody else is. I'm really thinking it's time to throw in the towel on American Racing. The CART and IMSA years may have been the high water mark that will stand forever.
Indeed, and it's sad...the dumbing down and homogenization of first class racing in North America... :shakehead
Railbird
07-18-04, 10:47 PM
very sad situation indeed.
My early season plans included the HO and maybe RA rounds of ALMS but after checcking out the entry lists I've decided to wait for the Petit.
I've tried to watch the DPs only to be reminded that quantity will never replace quality.
Vintage meets are becoming more and more attractive.
Vintage meets are becoming more and more attractive.
My sentiment as well.
Sean O'Gorman
07-18-04, 10:59 PM
My sentiment as well.
Then how come I didn't see you at the SVRA event this year? ;)
Steve99
07-19-04, 12:03 PM
The extra races in Europe this year really seems to have hurt the ALMS. It's too bad. The dumbed down cars in Grand Am really don't interest me.
Racing Truth
07-20-04, 01:19 PM
Don Panoz has done just about as much good for sportscar racing in North America as Tony George has for champcars. For a guy who made a bazillion bucks in the pharmX industry it is pretty weird that he would follow the failed model of hanging a series around a single race.
Not only that, but also like Tony George, the ALMS is truly at the mercy of manufacturers giving a **** about one race in France (that's on SPEED in the US). Nice business model Don. :rolleyes:
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
Racing Truth
07-20-04, 01:40 PM
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
In general, a series that ISN'T AT THE MERCY OF MANUFACTURERS. Besides, even if manufacturers run Le Mans, that doesn't mean any serious participation in ALMS (see Bentley).
Racing Truth
07-20-04, 01:43 PM
Furthermore, for the love of the Almighty, do not base your "American" series on a race in France. That's just absurd. Build a solid sportscar series for the sake of sportscar racing, not b/c of Le Mans.
So how do you go about building a good series based on high-tech cars, without being subject to manufacturer's whims?
jonovision_man
07-20-04, 01:52 PM
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
Most series are at the mercy of manufacturers, though, except the ones that aren't lucky enough to have manufacturers participate!
ALMS was looking pretty good as practice for Le Mans until LMES came along. I guess Champion will be running their second car in races soon, and supposedly next year Audi will be back. I wonder if Panoz would ever dust off the LMP1 and get back out there?
It's not dead yet, just having a tough year.
jono
Madmaxfan2
07-20-04, 04:43 PM
Indeed, and it's sad...the dumbing down and homogenization of first class racing in North America... :shakehead
You seem to be right on that observation. Maybe Road Racing in this country has peaked. What a shame!
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
Wave good bye to the ACO and let the racers stuff 7.0l OHV V8s and 5.0l DOHC engines into LMP675 sized cars.
Sean O'Gorman
07-20-04, 05:06 PM
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
1) Split from Le Mans. No arguing this point.
2) Its obvious that the manufacturers aren't interested in prototype ranks, so don't cater the class towards them. The reason the ALMS fields are so small is because its cheaper to run a Daytona Prototype, and unlike ALMS, you don't have to worry about being dominated by an Audi.
Think about it. Given fairly similar budgets, which would you rather run? A: 400-450 hp ugly cars around mostly infield road courses, or as a support to NASCAR, with bottom level paddock space and track time. or B: 600+ hp prototypes on every major road course in the US?
If only they had stayed the course with WSC, maybe things would be different.
Racewriter
07-20-04, 07:12 PM
Wave good bye to the ACO and let the racers stuff 7.0l OHV V8s and 5.0l DOHC engines into LMP675 sized cars.
Holy *****!!!!!
Peter and I would prescribe exactly the same thing!
FCYTravis
07-20-04, 07:20 PM
Start by restricting or banning the Audi R8. It's become the TurboPanzer of the 21st Century - dominant, high-tech and exciting but kills any series its entered into.
Allow a better mix of competitive makes into GT using equalization formulas, including M3s, Corvettes, RX8s, etc.
Make GTP rules very friendly toward customer chassis designers, such as Lola and Van Diemen/Elan. Only when affordable and competitive customer chassis/engine combinations become available will the series rebound.
Then how come I didn't see you at the SVRA event this year? ;)
Boycotting all M-O activities until Michelle gets more than two brain cells firing at the same time.
Holy *****!!!!!
Peter and I would prescribe exactly the same thing!
:homealoneshocksmilie:
Now, how would you feel about NASCAR adopting DTM regs and running on the infield road courses at all the ISC ovals?
:gomer:
:homealoneshocksmilie:
Now, how would you feel about NASCAR adopting DTM regs and running on the infield road courses at all the ISC ovals?
:gomer:
I'd settle for Australian V8 Supercar regs in a pinch!
Racewriter
07-20-04, 08:23 PM
:homealoneshocksmilie:
Now, how would you feel about NASCAR adopting DTM regs and running on the infield road courses at all the ISC ovals?
:gomer:
That would kill it, all right...
Michaelhatesfans
07-20-04, 09:10 PM
What would you guys do to run ALMS differently? I don't follow sportscar racing closely, but ALMS is at the mercy of manufacturers and they aren't sending the cars over here. What can he do?
Sportscars, perhaps more than any other form of racing, has always been manufacturer driven, I don't think you could ever get away from that. It only takes one manufacturer to invest heavily, and any formula you come up with is going to be dominated by them.
Sooo... I would actually try to make it more attractive to manufacturers, but with a different approach than tightly regulated "prototypes" like the Daytona cars. I would actually drop prototypes altogether, and put the emphasis on the GT cars.
*Original body configuration - silhouette cars for lack of a better way to describe them. I'd find the magic cut-off for cars to be properly homologated - no Toyota GT1s trying to sneak in as production cars, thank you. And no wings, unless the production car comes with them.
*Let them hot rod the hell out of the engines, but only with the original block. Remember what Nissan was able to get out of a stock block for their GTP car? Yeah, baby! You can have a turbo as long as the production model has one as well. Ok, you have to find a sweet spot for power/weight/boost ratios, but I don't think that's impossible.
*Under the skin - more or less what GTS cars are doing, but it's got to fit under the original bodywork. Have a relatively high minimum weight limit, to keep those braking zones a bit longer.
Basically, a series where the cars are easily recognizable and grossly overpowered. I'd show up for that. :cool:
Sean O'Gorman
07-21-04, 12:41 AM
Boycotting all M-O activities until Michelle gets more than two brain cells firing at the same time.
I had an extra ticket, you could've asked for it. I'd even bring food and drink so you could say you went the whole weekend without giving the track a dime. :)
Racing Truth
07-21-04, 05:26 PM
Start by restricting or banning the Audi R8. It's become the TurboPanzer of the 21st Century - dominant, high-tech and exciting but kills any series its entered into.
Allow a better mix of competitive makes into GT using equalization formulas, including M3s, Corvettes, RX8s, etc.
Make GTP rules very friendly toward customer chassis designers, such as Lola and Van Diemen/Elan. Only when affordable and competitive customer chassis/engine combinations become available will the series rebound.
I agree with this and pchall. Your thoughts on GTP really make sense.
Look, you can have hi-tech, interesting cars WITHOUT big manufacturers. That is the key, and if ALMS figures that out, they'll really have something.
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