Toyota

[Spicoli]

[rambling & ranting]

Heard something very interesting. Yoda Nippon wants out of the IRL. Yoda USA wants to stay in and attempt to battle back at Honda, who has been kicking their ass decisively all year.

Source says to me:


"Toyota Japan gets what they want 99% of the time. Toyota Japan sees Na$Car as the ultimate marketing tool, regardless of what Honda does or says."

Could we finally see the end of this idiotic battle? Think about it. Yoda is in GrandSham and Trucks already (btw - check out the number of Yoda ads during a Trucks race), and if and when they beat Honda to Cup, they are already one leg up on them. Can you imagine an EARL without those 2? What wopuld you have? Cheeber, Panther, Menards and Foyt. :gomer: Ah, the good old days! Wankfest 2006! Imagine the check FTG would have to write in May! :cry:

Anyway - the budget each carry for EARL programs I guesstimate at about 100 mill. (Teams, R&D, Engineering, Marketing, Driver Salaries, TV time, etc). Not getting much bang for their 100 mill, is Yoda? Alot of the top engineers have already left the EARL program. No wonder Gan*******, Mo Nunn, Penske, and the rest don't wanna go road racing....good money after bad I suppose.

And you know if one leaves, the other is not far behind...

[/rambling & ranting]

[Wingnut]

[rambling & ranting]

Heard something very interesting. Yoda Nippon wants out of the IRL. Yoda USA wants to stay in and attempt to battle back at Honda, who has been kicking their ass decisively all year.

Source says to me:


"Toyota Japan gets what they want 99% of the time. Toyota Japan sees Na$Car as the ultimate marketing tool, regardless of what Honda does or says."

Could we finally see the end of this idiotic battle? Think about it. Yoda is in GrandSham and Trucks already (btw - check out the number of Yoda ads during a Trucks race), and if and when they beat Honda to Cup, they are already one leg up on them. Can you imagine an EARL without those 2? What wopuld you have? Cheeber, Panther, Menards and Foyt. :gomer: Ah, the good old days! Wankfest 2006! Imagine the check FTG would have to write in May! :cry:

Anyway - the budget each carry for EARL programs I guesstimate at about 100 mill. (Teams, R&D, Engineering, Marketing, Driver Salaries, TV time, etc). Not getting much bang for their 100 mill, is Yoda? Alot of the top engineers have already left the EARL program. No wonder Gan*******, Mo Nunn, Penske, and the rest don't wanna go road racing....good money after bad I suppose.

And you know if one leaves, the other is not far behind...

[/rambling & ranting]

Oh wise Spicoli...may I ask a really naive question? Why, IYHO, are Fonda and Hoyota trying to massacre open-wheeled racing in America?? What the hell's in it for them? If they ultimately want the Cup, why are they torching every other series; honestly, they can piss on the Gomers and I'd be very content to watch, but why CART?? Why are they plowing through the open-wheeled series?

Thank you so much.

Christine

P.s. And how on earth can the gomers be so DIM as to not see what the feck is happening??? Is it the Kool-Aid?

[Wheel-Nut]

People keep saying Chevy is leaving the earl, I have a gut feeling Toyota will be gone before Chevy.

[Turn7]

I don't think they are trying to kill open wheel in the U.S., that is only a side effect of them competing against the other. They had both won mfg. championships in CART so, they moved on to the next accomplishment, the INDY 500. Toyota has won it since the departure until this year and now they each have the accomplishment.

Well, now there are no bragging rights left in OW that one can claim superiority over the other so, on to Cup.

I don't think it is anymore complex than that. The agenda is to have an accomplishment the other doesn't, the rest is just battlefield waste.

[Michaelhatesfans]

The agenda is to have an accomplishment the other doesn't, the rest is just battlefield waste.
Agreed. Except there will be no Marshall Plan when this one is over. Just waste.

[racer2c]

If Tony hadn't thrown his famous tantrum and split US based open wheel formula racing into two, a healthy series would entice manufactures and sponsors to stick around after their initial 'accomplishments' are met.
Honda left F1 saying that they accomplished what they set out to and yet they returned because while one championship is good, 14 championships are better. Right Ferrari?

Thanks Tony you putz.

[FTG]

My take.

The Frances wanted to kill CART. Toyota wanted into NASCAR. The Frances said you can come in if you knife CART in the back.

Toyota said yes, left CART and decided to putter around in the EARL for a couple of years while waiting for NASCAR.

Honda decided to compete with Toyota in the EARL.

Now, the Frances are changing objectives. They want the Brickyard and they will pull the rug out from Tony by encouraging Toyota and Honda to leave, so that Tony will have incentive to sell the Brickyard.

But Toyota and Honda really don't care about Champ Car either way. We're just stuck in the middle because our former management (Penske, Ganassi etc.) are bunch of yen whores who will never stand up to the Japanese.

So everything Spicolli says makes sense to me and like I said before, might explain why Haas is staying put.

[JLMannin]

I don't think the conspiracy theory is that grand or well thought out. I don't think that Toyota was enticed to compete in CART as pittance to pay to gain entry to NASCAR - that just does not make sense.

Tony threw his tantrum all by himself - I do not think he had anyone whispering in his ear. He saw the cash cow that the BY400 was and figured he could use that cash to subsidise the IRL for a year or two. I think he was anticipating CART to collapse onto itself in an effort to secure gauranteed starting spots in the 500.

I think that after CART has stood its ground, the France clan saw a business oportunuty - they could offer IRL tracks for TG to race on, and they could include the IRL tickets in the season ticket packages required to get NASCAR tickets - a way to raise ticket prices for NASCAR races without it looking like a price increase.

The fact the preserving the IRL helped to diminish the overall US based formula car fan base while NASCAR was experiencing explosive growth was coincidental, in my opinion. Toyota and Honda had the misfortune of hitching themselves with teams afflicted with terminal cases of indyitis.

TG was the only one out to destroy CART. The France clan saw a business opportunity and used TG and his piss-ant series to place a tax on NASCAR tickets at select ISC tracks.

TG won the owners and the manufacturers. He diminished the most significant auto race in the world to the point that it is just another race. He kept the place fans, but the only way to lose them is to wait until they all die from old age. He pissed off most of the race fans like me.

[Racewriter]

I don't think the conspiracy theory is that grand or well thought out. I don't think that Toyota was enticed to compete in CART as pittance to pay to gain entry to NASCAR - that just does not make sense.

Tony threw his tantrum all by himself - I do not think he had anyone whispering in his ear. He saw the cash cow that the BY400 was and figured he could use that cash to subsidise the IRL for a year or two. I think he was anticipating CART to collapse onto itself in an effort to secure gauranteed starting spots in the 500.

I think that after CART has stood its ground, the France clan saw a business oportunuty - they could offer IRL tracks for TG to race on, and they could include the IRL tickets in the season ticket packages required to get NASCAR tickets - a way to raise ticket prices for NASCAR races without it looking like a price increase.

The fact the preserving the IRL helped to diminish the overall US based formula car fan base while NASCAR was experiencing explosive growth was coincidental, in my opinion. Toyota and Honda had the misfortune of hitching themselves with teams afflicted with terminal cases of indyitis.

TG was the only one out to destroy CART. The France clan saw a business opportunity and used TG and his piss-ant series to place a tax on NASCAR tickets at select ISC tracks.

TG won the owners and the manufacturers. He diminished the most significant auto race in the world to the point that it is just another race. He kept the place fans, but the only way to lose them is to wait until they all die from old age. He pissed off most of the race fans like me.

Well said. What people have to remember is that, in 1994, there wasn't just an ego motive for TG to kill CART - there was a financial one, too. We know now that sanction fees were 1.5 to 2.5M per race, on a purse of 500K. CART was easily netting 1M or more per race, plus other revenue streams. If Tony could have killed CART while keeping the sport whole (or semi-whole, losing maybe 20% of the revenue and fanbase), he had an opportunity to add a whole new profit stream to IMS Properties AND put himself in charge.

TG didn't need the Frances to whisper in his ear. And frankly, the Frances were doing something at the time that has been alien to openwheel for the last 9-10 years: they were building their own business.

[Brickman]

We all know that Tony underestimated the loyalty of manufacturers and sponsors. The war wasn't won in a year or eight.

I don't think the Frances thought of the IRL as a ticket partner until the new tracks (Chicagoland, Kansas) appeared, where season tickets are the only thing you can buy.

Toyota came on the scene in Champ Car to compete with Honda, their sneaky motorsports dealings motivate Honda like no other. France will get Toyota and a headache in Cup, the prices of competition there continues to climb. Manufacturers were the devil in CART and are the devil in the IRL. Tread lightly France Family, they'll screw up your series more than you can.

Ford is the smartest of the group, making money on CCWS and Cosworth.



As far as the future... I believe Toyota will stay if Honda does. If they leave then the IRL will become a spec series like Champ Car, with real sponsors, NOT MANUFACTURER sponsors, and instead of three car teams a number of single car teams.

I do believe they ALL need to wake up and rachett back their engine specs, they are throwing good money away for little return. If the manufacturers would set up specs between themselves and dictate to TG and OWRS then all the BS of the last 8 years would be over.

The time to move in a different direction is now. As real sponsors in NASCAR see their budgets all out of wack, open wheel could be an economic attractive alternative.

[FTG]

So you guys think the topic of CART never comes up when Toyota talks to the Frances?

[JoeBob]

The France's goal was not to help the IRL - it was to divide and conquor.

If they created infighting in open wheel (and sportscars) it couldn't gain momentum to overtake NASCAR. In the early days, they supported both sides. They gave IMS the BY400 - which ensured funding for Tony's startup. But, they kept their tracks loyal to CART.

It wasn't until CART started to evolve on its own - away from the IRL, that ISC pulled the rug out from under them.

I don't think ISC really cares about the IRL or CART - they do care about eliminating competition to NASCAR. If the IRL starts to show any signs of attracting fans away from NASCAR, you'll see season ticket packages start to dissapear.

[JoeBob]

As for manufacturers making money - keep in mind that the IRL was a profit center for Chevy until Toyota and Honda came in.

[FTG]

The France's goal was not to help the IRL - it was to divide and conquor.

Right, and encouraging Toyota to leave first CART, then the IRL is all part of the plan. Though, I gather some people will have you believe it is just a happy coincidence that ISC kick CART off its track about the same time Toyota became interested in Cup.

[JT265]

Right, and encouraging Toyota to leave first CART, then the IRL is all part of the plan. Though, I gather some people will have you believe it is just a happy coincidence that ISC kick CART off its track about the same time Toyota became interested in Cup.


Without question there has been more backroom deals between the Frances, Penske et al than Joe Kennedy would even admit to at a 1950's era teamsters convention.

If you go back 15 years, just as Sears vs. WalMart, I doubt there was 10 seconds worth of thought paid to the expansion of the "regional" hayseed series known as Nascar.

Bad mistake. As far as ToyodaHonDUH and co., open wheel is just collateral damage in their attempts to outdo one another.

What do all of these entities have/used to have in common?

CART/Nascar/IMS/ISC/Toyota/Honda?

Roger Penske.

[Steve99]

As far as the future... I believe Toyota will stay if Honda does.

How do you explain the lack of Toyota performance in the IRL this year? They are getting kicked around and don't seem to care. If they cared I think we would see some improvements, and hear rumors about Toyota going after more top teams.

[Brickman]

How do you explain the lack of Toyota performance in the IRL this year? They are getting kicked around and don't seem to care. If they cared I think we would see some improvements, and hear rumors about Toyota going after more top teams.

They have a pretty full plate, it seems that Cosworth has taken half the season to catch up with the Honda. Just as we didn't hear much from Honda last year when they were kicking Toyota's behind, I would say the same for this year, I doubt we will hear much from them until the Toyota 400 @ Fontana.

I have no doubt they will go to the IRL, it's just a question if they will do like Ford and GM did in open wheel and have a foot in each series or abandon the IRL.

[mapguy]

If they leave then the IRL will become a spec series like Champ Car, with real sponsors, NOT MANUFACTURER sponsors, and instead of three car teams a number of single car teams.



You are so effing predictable.

Care to back that one up with some facts? First of all Andretti/Green's 'sponsors' (7-11, Jim Beam and what ever Dashley has on his car) are ponying up less than 1 mil a season. XM radio? Honda. Marlboro is gone soon so Pimpski will be without a sponsor. (Gee, I wonder why he was trying to get the series together?) If the Toyota and Honda pull out then:

Andretti/Green - Gone. Honda bought that team and give them free engines and pay the driver's salaries plus more.

Ganassi - Gone. Chip only became a real player in Champcars when he had factory deals. No Honda, no Toyota, no Cheep.

Fernandez - Gone.

Rahal - Gone.

Kelly - Pretty much gone already. See Ganassi above.

Nunn - Gone.

Penske - Probably gone. No manufacturer money and Marlboro soon to be gone.

That leaves Cheever, Panther, Foyt, Dreyer/Reinbold, Access and Patrick.

So to summerize:

If the yen stops in the irl then the 'real' sponsors that will be left are Red Bull (do you think that they will still be with Under-a after this year? Doubt it.), Pennzoil and Conseco (yeah, they'll last...)

Whereas CCWS has McDonald's, Pacificare, Herdez, MiJack, Gigante, Office Depot, Johnson Controls, Gulfstream, Corona, McCormack, Cummins, Johnson Controls....

[KobySon]

I don't think the conspiracy theory is that grand or well thought out. I don't think that Toyota was enticed to compete in CART as pittance to pay to gain entry to NASCAR - that just does not make sense.

I assume you meant IRL, not CART.

And Mapguy, don't forget Johnson Controls.

[racer2c]

I have no doubt they will go to the IRL, it's just a question if they will do like Ford and GM did in open wheel and have a foot in each series or abandon the IRL.

I assume you mean NEXTEL Cup.

[mapguy]

I assume you meant IRL, not CART.

And Mapguy, don't forget Johnson Controls.

It's there. The last one on my CCWS list. BTW. I am biased. They make crappy control boards. JMHO of course...

[KLang]

And Mapguy, don't forget Johnson Controls.

:laugh:
Zoom! right over Mapguy's head.

JC is there twice.

[sundaydriver2]

Honda has been the one to to stab at CCWS at every turn. Those POS a holes have a grudge against someone at CCWS. Every time you hear a rumor, it's got Hondai money written all over it.

I hope and pray that Toyo takes it's cash and leaves the earl. Honda is too stupid to think on their own and I'm sure would follow. All that would be left is GM and the Idiotgrandsons check book. And that would perfect. Anything that takes cash out of the Hulman bank account I'm all for.

[KobySon]

:laugh:

[Spicoli]

I doubt we will hear much from them until the Toyota 400 @ Fontana.




Oh wise one, why in the f**k would they wait til then?

More likely scenario - look who the wrenches are at GanassiEARL this year, then compare who was there this time last year.

This is prolly considered "insider stuff" to those of us that can get that kind of info, but I think you get the point. Yoda is bailing....IMHO.

Well, except for Tora. That's a committment ... ;)

[Wally]

"Honda has been the one to to stab at CCWS at every turn. Those POS a holes have a grudge against someone at CCWS. Every time you hear a rumor, it's got Hondai money written all over it."

This is the one conclusion I keep coming back to over and over. Its gone past business now......spacer gate or whatever ol Clarky and yensan just keep pouring it on. And now with this St.Pete deal they can please Mikey's crying and have a street event to rival LBGP. :shakehead

[Madmaxfan2]

Lets get to the root core of open wheel racing's main problem , and it is only semi-related to the split. Engine manufacturer money. NASCAR for its current bent towards entertainment, figured out in the mid 70's to survive the last big downturn the ecomony was independent teams and engine builders. Money from manufacturers is here today, gone tommorrow. The third generation France family may relearn that lession again wooing Toyota, but lets stick to formula car racing. To be totally honest in 1995 & 1996, CART was also living off the YEN money too. TG figured out that the YEN was the path to gain a leg up over Champ Car. He did get most of the old CART teams. Thank God fans did not follow. OWRS would be wise not to be dependent on the engine manufacturer $$ to grow the series. Yes, it may take time, but the product should pay for itself, and not be reliant on Engine manufacturers' subsidies , and other sponsorship welfare, like cancer stick $$$.

[Brickman]

Yep

Real world economics have to fall into place for any open wheel series to survive. Because the owners of the series can't pony up the money forever, the cancer stick guys won't be around forever, and the manufacturers won't be around for ever.

[nrc]

To be totally honest in 1995 & 1996, CART was also living off the YEN money too.

Generally I agree with your comment. But I don't think reliance on manufacturer money got out of control until a few years later. When Mercedes decided it wasn't worthwhile and teams like PPI, Della Penna and Gurney got screwed that was where things really got out of control.

[RTKar]

How do you explain the lack of Toyota performance in the IRL this year? They are getting kicked around and don't seem to care. If they cared I think we would see some improvements, and hear rumors about Toyota going after more top teams.

They're sending their best and brightest to engineer a "new project"...

[Spicoli]

Generally I agree with your comment. But I don't think reliance on manufacturer money got out of control until a few years later. When Mercedes decided it wasn't worthwhile and teams like PPI, Della Penna and Gurney got screwed that was where things really got out of control.



The Yen gained control when asswipe Boobie Rahole landed in charge of CART and could care less what anyone did. Need a sponsor Mr. Marketing Dept.? Call Yoda. Need some help in Engineering? Call Honda. The series and the teams got fat and happy and sold themselves out like the 5 dollar crack whores they were. Now they are all in EARL.

We have much good fortune to wish upon Mr. Rahole.


No wonder his wife left him.

[Chaos]

I dont think Toyota is leaving the IRL...Just my opinion.

[Wally]

Spicoli......... :laugh: :laugh:

[Wingnut]

Huh. I wish MYfavouritedriversucked :cry:

Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone. I've always wondered FT & FH's motives were...

Christine, counting the days till Montreal

[eiregosod]

Lets get to the root core of open wheel racing's main problem , and it is only semi-related to the split. Engine manufacturer money. NASCAR for its current bent towards entertainment, figured out in the mid 70's to survive the last big downturn the ecomony was independent teams and engine builders. Money from manufacturers is here today, gone tommorrow. The third generation France family may relearn that lession again wooing Toyota, but lets stick to formula car racing. To be totally honest in 1995 & 1996, CART was also living off the YEN money too. TG figured out that the YEN was the path to gain a leg up over Champ Car. He did get most of the old CART teams. Thank God fans did not follow. OWRS would be wise not to be dependent on the engine manufacturer $$ to grow the series. Yes, it may take time, but the product should pay for itself, and not be reliant on Engine manufacturers' subsidies , and other sponsorship welfare, like cancer stick $$$.

Spot on!!!

NASCAr doesnt rely on manufacturers, NASCAr has the fans so the manufacturers have to dance to NASCAr's banjo.

Fans dont follow Yen around, but then Yoda & fonda didnt build their marques like ferrari/bentley/porsche etc who command a high amount of respect for their cars. The Yen arent famous for building high end sportscars ;)

its a vicious circle for Champcars, they need to gain new fans in order to attract new sponsors

[JoeBob]

To be totally honest in 1995 & 1996, CART was also living off the YEN money too.

This is certainly not the case.

Lets turn back the clock a bit and revisit history. In 1996, Toyota had AAR and Arciero-Wells. Honda started with Rahal and Brix-Comptech in 1994, swapping Rahal for Tasman in 1995. None of those (with the possible exception of Rahal) were "powerhouse teams" but that is who Toyota and Honda went with, as the big teams wouldn't give either manufacturer the time of day until they proved they could beat the Fords or the Chevy/Mercedes/Illmor.

Ganassi was the first "major player" to move to Honda for 1996, joining Tasman and Brix-Comptech as Honda powered teams. It wasn't until after the 1999 season that all heck broke loose.

The gauntlet was thrown down when Toyota offered a Fist Full of Yen to Ganassi to switch over to Toyota for 2000. Toyota had shown flashes of potential in 1999 (just as Honda had in 1995) and offered Ganassi big Yen to help them win races.

Ganassi was also looking at a situation where he would no longer be the big fish in a small pond, as TKG had almost beaten him for the championship, and Honda was adding Penske to their stable with Greg Moore and Gil de Ferran. The thought of keeping his role as "king fish" and extra money to boot was too much to resist.

So, Ganassi ship to Toyota for the 2000 season. Honda's unhappiness with how the Ganassi deal went down (combined with Mercedes withdrawing from the series), let to a full scale war breaking out in 2001.

In 2001, Toyota dumped their longtime teams (like PPI) and came up with Yen to lure long time powerhouse Newman-Haas to their stable. Honda countered with Yen for Mo Nunn to run both Tony Kanaan and Alex Zanardi, along with money to Green for Michael Andretti.

With that, costs officially became "upside down."

It probably isn't coincidence that the first year Ganassi had tons of extra spending money from Toyota was also the first year he broke ranks and went to Indy as a one-off. But, the role of Ganassi's 2000 Indy win in the demise of CART is a topic for another day.

[Madmaxfan2]

This is certainly not the case.

Lets turn back the clock a bit and revisit history. In 1996, Toyota had AAR and Arciero-Wells. Honda started with Rahal and Brix-Comptech in 1994, swapping Rahal for Tasman in 1995. None of those (with the possible exception of Rahal) were "powerhouse teams" but that is who Toyota and Honda went with, as the big teams wouldn't give either manufacturer the time of day until they proved they could beat the Fords or the Chevy/Mercedes/Illmor.

Ganassi was the first "major player" to move to Honda for 1996, joining Tasman and Brix-Comptech as Honda powered teams. It wasn't until after the 1999 season that all heck broke loose.

The gauntlet was thrown down when Toyota offered a Fist Full of Yen to Ganassi to switch over to Toyota for 2000. Toyota had shown flashes of potential in 1999 (just as Honda had in 1995) and offered Ganassi big Yen to help them win races.

Ganassi was also looking at a situation where he would no longer be the big fish in a small pond, as TKG had almost beaten him for the championship, and Honda was adding Penske to their stable with Greg Moore and Gil de Ferran. The thought of keeping his role as "king fish" and extra money to boot was too much to resist.

So, Ganassi ship to Toyota for the 2000 season. Honda's unhappiness with how the Ganassi deal went down (combined with Mercedes withdrawing from the series), let to a full scale war breaking out in 2001.

In 2001, Toyota dumped their longtime teams (like PPI) and came up with Yen to lure long time powerhouse Newman-Haas to their stable. Honda countered with Yen for Mo Nunn to run both Tony Kanaan and Alex Zanardi, along with money to Green for Michael Andretti.

With that, costs officially became "upside down."

It probably isn't coincidence that the first year Ganassi had tons of extra spending money from Toyota was also the first year he broke ranks and went to Indy as a one-off. But, the role of Ganassi's 2000 Indy win in the demise of CART is a topic for another day.

Maybe as far as amount of $$$ is concerned you might be right, but given the marketing impressions these companies put forth, which is precisely what they want to do, the slippery slope was starting in 95 and no one at CART recognized the danger. TG explioted that fact for all its worth.

[racer2c]

Maybe as far as amount of $$$ is concerned you might be right, but given the marketing impressions these companies put forth, which is precisely what they want to do, the slippery slope was starting in 95 and no one at CART recognized the danger. TG explioted that fact for all its worth.

Exploited it and then embraced it? More proof of his idiocy.

[Madmaxfan2]

Exploited it and then embraced it? More proof of his idiocy.


At first he decried it, and then figured how to use it to get the big teams from CART. Now, the fate of the IRL hangs on it.

[Railbird]

And now with this St.Pete deal they can please Mikey's crying and have a street event to rival LBGP.

St Pete won't be a rival to Long Beach, it will be the IRL's first step toward taking it over.

[FRANKY]

St Pete won't be a rival to Long Beach, it will be the IRL's first step toward taking it over.


Yes. As someone pointed out in some thread around here, it's a Dover Bend Over to get to Long Beach. They get one of the best street circuits to boot.

[JT265]

St Pete won't be a rival to Long Beach, it will be the IRL's first step toward taking it over.


I agree that's the earls long term goal. I gotta admit I wanna see what their road/street package entails.

Besides a serious engine tweaking aero bits and uprights, I also understand that even with the addition of Gaylio Kanose and Wheldon that earl is STILL short of gearboxes.

[Ziggy]

Great thread, really.

Ziggy

[Ziggy]

From what I know, there is no gearbox at this time

think about that.....

Maybe a Jerico with a r e a l short tailshaft, or they could call www.passonperformance.com for some help

[Ankf00]

St Pete won't be a rival to Long Beach, it will be the IRL's first step toward taking it over.
is this where you start getting flamed for turning gomer? :laugh:

anywho, I cant wait till their right turn exhibitions, if 1/4th of the field crosses the finish line i'll be bloody amazed

[Railbird]

is this where you start getting flamed for turning gomer?


flame away racefan.

The Dover connection is there whether or not.

[cart7]

I agree that's the earls long term goal. I gotta admit I wanna see what their road/street package entails.

Besides a serious engine tweaking aero bits and uprights, I also understand that even with the addition of Gaylio Kanose and Wheldon that earl is STILL short of gearboxes.

According to Cheap, who needs any of it, the cars are good to go as is. :saywhat:

I can hear BB in the first drivers meeting now..

BB - OK fella's, we gotta go over a few things here.

1. Setup for the turns is crucial. Don't try anything crazy out there. When you hear the warning buzzer go off, STOP TURNING THE WHEEL or the front suspension will collapse.

2. We've run the data and you're allowed a maximum of 20 upshifts and downshifts total per lap. Any more than that and the transmission will melt off the back of the car.

3. Brakes. We've shortened the race to 10 laps. Enough said.

4. Don't hit any curbing, put a tire off track or brush a wall and whatever you do, DON'T HIT A CONE AND GET IT LODGED IN THE SUSPENSION! Test data has shown the car will launch if you do.

:gomer:

[eiregosod]

the best thing about IRL road racing, is that it proves categorically that the all-oval concept was a failure

[Spicoli]

look at the date ladies.

SackolEE knows his stuff.














hate the game, not the playah :gomer:

[Rocketdoc]

I dont think Toyota is leaving the IRL...Just my opinion.


"Gordon Kirby is indicating in an audio roundtable at champcar.ws that Toyota is out of the IRL, and that the announcement will come after the Indy 500. He went on to say that Chip Ganassi is closing down his IRL team, and that Honda would also be out of the IRL after 2006."

Whoda Thunk....

But what does some outsider like Gordon Kirby know....

[Spicoli]

http://www.champweb.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/lbc_060.jpg

[dando]

^^^ :thumbup: :cool:

-Kevin

[FRANKY]

look at the date ladies.

SackolEE knows his stuff.

hate the game, not the playah :gomer:

Cute

[Newtpal]

look at the date ladies.

SackolEE knows his stuff.



Lucky guess :D

[Andrew Longman]

"Got Crowd?"

THAT's funny. :rofl:

Too bad that was not being pulled behind a plane.

[Winston Wolfe]

http://www.champweb.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/lbc_060.jpg


I've got another picture from Winner's Circle, with the opposite side of the "Hey IRL" homemade sign which says:

"Champcar
- irl
---------
100,000 "

It was beautiful, and everyone in winners circle was looking up at these guys and cheering.... I'm off to get the film developed and i'll get a copy on a disc as soon as I can figure it out.

[Newtpal]

I've got another picture from Winner's Circle, with the opposite side of the "Hey IRL" homemade sign which says:

"Champcar
- irl
---------
100,000 "

It was beautiful, and everyone in winners circle was looking up at these guys and cheering.... I'm off to get the film developed and i'll get a copy on a disc as soon as I can figure it out.

film developed? Whats that?

[Winston Wolfe]

film developed? Whats that?

yeah, yeah, yeah.... I KNOW !!!!

Poor preparation and bad planning allowed the battery in the digital to expire, so I had to go to the back-up.... thank goodness I didnt have to go to the ankle peice...

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Great pic! :D :thumbup:

[Racing Truth]

People keep saying Chevy is leaving the earl, I have a gut feeling Toyota will be gone before Chevy.

Really, Chevy has said that Chevy is leaving after this year, so it will happen.

[RacinM3]

Re: engine mfr money and TG:


At first he decried it, and then figured how to use it to get the big teams from CART. Now, the fate of the IRL hangs on it.

Proof of TG's reactionary nature and his inability to plan ahead and be proactive.

His "fatal" flaw. Along with his ego.

One thing not really mentioned much in this thread is Champ Car's 100% self-sufficiency now, in terms of engines.

[NismoZ]

Well, let's mention it, then...including the real possibility of powering the Atlantics as well. Toyota has also said they are out of Atlantics at the end of this season, and though Unger has said they would provide an "engine development package", ChampCar doesn't sound too interested. Hope we're looking at 375-400hp from a turbo 4 Cosworth (badged?) F-Atlantic needs to step things up a bit in light of all the new open-wheel competition. Also, you turbo freaks will likely get your way as KK and even Walker are saying this engine should stick around awhile longer. It's the "updated" tub thing that worries me most. If we stick to more short, slow street circuits I think we should go on a diet. I don't look forward to the "ChampCar Historic" races from '07 on...

[Spicoli]

Honda has a 2.65 Liter turbo too. :D

[Tony George]

Honda has a 2.65 Liter turbo too. :D

Interesting... ;)

[Winston Wolfe]

Honda has a 2.65 Liter turbo too. :D

Yup. Just sitting on shelves in Santa Clarita.
And on engine stands in the lobby of the various Honda building in Torrance.
;)

[nrc]

Well, let's mention it, then...including the real possibility of powering the Atlantics as well. Toyota has also said they are out of Atlantics at the end of this season,

Really? I hadn't heard that. Is there a link out there somewhere?

The engine supply isn't a problem. It's the sponsorship loss that would hurt.

[Spicoli]

http://www.musicdish.com/img/article/2003-06/ns_Dancers.jpg

party gone outta bounds.

:dude:

[Spicoli]

this is the real thread about Yoda leaving. :gomer:

pay attention.

[coolhand]

is this the Airbus thread? :saywhat:

[Ankf00]

says the #1 thread hijacker :gomer:

toyotas are what all brown people drive, reason enough to stay away, don't want to become part of the mind hive, or might have to move to salt lake city ... :eek:

[Spicoli]

says the #1 thread hijacker :gomer:

toyotas are what all brown people drive, reason enough to stay away, don't want to become part of the mind hive, or might have to move to salt lake city ... :eek:

I hate mormons.

[Ankf00]

but the women like to have lots and lots and lots of sex :D they got that whole anti-brown thing goin on though... :saywhat:

oh ya, and then there's the 2 point okie beer they serve :flame:

[nrc]

In the back of a Toyota? 'Cos that's the only way that could be on topic...

[Ankf00]

In the back of a Toyota? 'Cos that's the only way that could be on topic...

toyota has an entire lineup dedicated to the roomy backseat :D

[Sean O'Gorman]

toyota has an entire lineup dedicated to the roomy backseat :D

Of course, me knowing I wouldn't use it anyway, went for the MR2. :o

[Ankf00]

fear not, reclined front seats work well ;)

[Spicoli]

but the women like to have lots and lots and lots of sex :D they got that whole anti-brown thing goin on though... :saywhat:

oh ya, and then there's the 2 point okie beer they serve :flame:

mormons + crappy beer laws / great powder = hate mormons. :saywhat:

[RusH]

mormons + crappy beer laws / great powder = hate mormons. :saywhat:

pssst

Colorado

[Spicoli]

pssst

Colorado

pssst: noi fuggin snow in CO for a few years now:

Biggie snow in Co: 234" (ABasin)
Biggie Snow in OOtah: 697.5" (Alta)

And to further prove my point:

http://www.royalambassadorapts.com/skier666/MM_1.JPG

this is in Mammoth over the weekend. :saywhat: MAY.


I've skied in CO forever, but I'm now going further West, as the weather paaterns have consistently proven to be more "partial" to Oootah and Cally. even Baker in Washingotn isn;t getting the epic dumps they usually do.

[RusH]

I haven`t skied since I was 15 so....


nice hat :gomer:

[Spicoli]

I haven`t skied since I was 15 so....


nice hat :gomer:

it was the ludes man. :gomer: