Vegas test results

[Warlock!]

Looks like big wings, ala Milwaukee. I was hoping for a little less downforce. Also, I think the speeds seem to show the cars don't seem to be going any faster than the downforce will allow (see: Lausitz, 2003)... I figured (possibly erroneously) the speeds would be a bit higher if the cars were able to be aero-trimmed a bit more. From www.champcarworldseries.com...

Testing results from the Las Vegas Motor Speedway follow:

1) Bruno Junqueira, #6 PacifiCare Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.538 seconds/203.482 mph

2) Sebastien Bourdais, #2 McDonald’s Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.586/203.114

3) Patrick Carpentier, #7 Indeck Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.604/202.977

4) Ryan Hunter-Reay, #4 Herdez Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.625/202.817

5) Paul Tracy, #1 Indeck Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.723/202.073

6) Guy Smith, #17 Rocketsports Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.725/202.058

7) Mario Dominguez, #55 Herdez Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.781/201.635

8) Rodolfo Lavin, #3 Corona Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.816/201.372

9) Jimmy Vasser, #12 Gulfstream Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.856/201.072

10) Alex Tagliani, #8 Johnson Controls Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 26.991/200.067

11) Mario Haberfeld, #5 Cummins Ford-Cosworth/Reynard/Bridgestone, 27.026/199.808

12) Michel Jourdain Jr., #9 Gigante Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 27.116/199.144

13) Roberto Gonzalez, #21 Nextel Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 27.140/198.968

14) Justin Wilson, #34 Mi-Jack Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone, 27.279/197.954

15) Nelson Philippe, #14 Mi-Jack Ford-Cosworth/Reynard/Bridgestone, 27.429/196.872


Warlock!

[nrc]

Picture of Bruno shows they've got the big wings. Note the front wing is nearly flat but the rear wing still has plenty of angle. Minimum rear wing angle perhaps? Gack! :saywhat:

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By400/20040819P_0012.jpg

[JT265]

Picture of Bruno shows they've got the big wings. Note the front wing is nearly flat but the rear wing still has plenty of angle. Minimum rear wing angle perhaps? Gack! :saywhat:

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2004/By400/20040819P_0012.jpg




Yeah, but if promotes that great sidebysidebysidebysidebyside racing and respects and upholds the traditions of that sacred yardObricks...........um.....
.............DAMN!!!!!

give me a minute to work the Boycott into my rant, K?

:gomer:

[Turn7]

At least the upper deck is full of spectators adn that's just for a test. :D ;)

[Warlock!]

At least the upper deck is full of spectators adn that's just for a test. :D ;)
I think those are cardboard cutouts that haven't been taken down from the last IRL race...

Speaking of Earl & Vegas, back in 2000 the pole speed was like 208 in a Dalara. The first year they had IRL spec cars ('97 or '98), pole speed was 214. The first IRL race they had '95 spec champcars... Lyin' Dyke had the pole with a speed of...


...226+ :eek: Amazing no one was kilt :gomer:

Warlock!

[pchall]

At least the upper deck is full of spectators adn that's just for a test. :D ;)

Hey, hookers and dollar slots will pull a crowd anywhere. ;)

[Dave99]

Ahh, Vegas. One-armed bandits inside. Two-legged bandits outside. ;)

[Madmaxfan2]

I would guess the ghost of TMS haunts OWRS brass. IF thats the reason, we will have to live with it. The speeds will creep up by race time.

[Railbird]

F the speeds, if I want to see IRL racing I know where to find it. Trim the freakin' wings.

Easy flat while playing huggy-pole is not what racing is supposed to be about in my eyes. Three wide racing created by an aero dog-knot is isn't quite as exciting as it is stupid and dangerous. I've attended enough of those deals to know that the main adrenalin rush comes from the fear that one of those boys is going to scatter themselves in the fencing.

If CCWS can't find a better solution than this they need to either change the formula or stay away from the banked ovals.

[rabbit]

F the speeds, if I want to see IRL racing I know where to find it. Trim the freakin' wings.

Easy flat while playing huggy-pole is not what racing is supposed to be about in my eyes. Three wide racing created by an aero dog-knot is isn't quite as exciting as it is stupid and dangerous. I've attended enough of those deals to know that the main adrenalin rush comes from the fear that one of those boys is going to scatter themselves in the fencing.

If CCWS can't find a better solution than this they need to either change the formula or stay away from the banked ovals.
Great post. :thumbup:

[pkvracing12]

I would guess the ghost of TMS haunts OWRS brass. IF thats the reason, we will have to live with it. The speeds will creep up by race time.
I totally agree Thats all Champ Car needs is more contriversy becuase of speed on ovals. But in other hands they could use the low downforce wings and bring back the handford device not the smaller wing but the big one they used up at MIS the last year they ran there. Plus this this is only a 1.5 mile oval they want to keep it safe. to bad it was 2 miles and banked at 18 degrees. But its still cool to see champcars back on ovals! and im sure it will blow the irl race's away. Does anyone know who will broadcast this race ?concidering its a 400 mile race i dont think spike will be able to run it with there crappy time slot.

[Warlock!]

...concidering its a 400 mile race i dont think spike will be able to run it with there crappy time slot.
Cut out the yellow laps, edit out a few more of the less exciting laps, show less of Nelson's hair and PT's spinners, and you've got a nice, two hour package.

I'm sure Spike will cover it, 4pm on the Sunday after...

Warlock!

[Warlock!]

Looks like PT thinks they're a bit too air-restricted as well... from The Las Vegas Sun (http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/births/2004/aug/19/517368536.html)...

"It's far too easy the way it is," Tracy said of the aero package he and 14 other drivers tested Wednesday at LVMS. "You could take, really, anybody out there and go flat out. Hopefully, they'll come up with some type of a compromise.

"If they wanted to achieve having an IRL race, then why not just join up with them?" Tracy said after running a top speed of 202.073 mph during Wednesday's test. "We have the package that we have and we should show what our package can do ... show what they're capable of -- not dumb them down and be like the IRL."

Tell it, dog...

Warlock!

[RaceGrrl]

You gotta love Paul Tracy for making statements like that. Let's hope that the men in charge take his comments to heart and make some adjustments.

[Madmaxfan2]

I think it is a problem of $$$. It allways comes down that. OWRS does not have the unlimted funding to do a downtown study using computer sims. with backup real car testing for validation. It can be done, who will pay the bills?The approach I see here is the we know what works for slowing down to prevent TMS debacle from occuring all over again. This is a second chance for Champ Car at a Bruton Smith track, no big screw ups will be tolerated.

[skaven]

After the Denver race, I was pretty excited and was thinking about going out for the Vegas race. After reading that it is going to be IRL-like, I think I'll just stay at home.

However, the majority of the fans will most likely be there for the truck show. As such, they might feel they need to put on a show the truck fans will enjoy. We need new fans and at least they are filling in some gaps on the schedule.

[Turn7]

Skaven,

This was test. They were testing the aero package and will more than likely change it up a bit now that they have a baseline to go by. I wouldn't be suprised if another one or two team test takes place to test the adjusted aero requirements.

I'd still go if I had the scratch if I were you.

[skaven]

T7 - I'll keep abreast of any more tests (this place rocks for news) and reserve my right to make my final decision later. :)

Since leaving Chicago (with tracks all around), I've managed to get to Cleveland (2 years ago) and Vancouver (last year), so I'd like to keep the trend of at least one fly-away race per year alive.

And it would be good to support a first-year event and help the series. But it has to be a product I approve of.

If I wanted to see that type of racing, I'd drive down I-25 to Pike's Peak this weekend, instead of campaigning to keep people away from that crap.

[Don Quixote]

So let me get this right. The IRL is having a street parade next year, and Champcars will be aero glued to the Las Vegas track racing 3 wide later this year. Oh my. :saywhat:

[stroker]

Does anyone know if Bridgestone might be a factor in the wing selection? OWRS isn't getting a whole lot of 220+mph racing done this year, and the IRL certainly doesn't seem to be getting up in that speed range... Is it possible that Bridgestone put a speed limit on them rather than do a special run of tires?

[Lizzerd]

Interesting speculation, considering that the compound is harder and more durable this year.

[manic mechanic]

I think it is a problem of $$$. It allways comes down that. OWRS does not have the unlimted funding to do a downtown study using computer sims. with backup real car testing for validation. It can be done, who will pay the bills?The approach I see here is the we know what works for slowing down to prevent TMS debacle from occuring all over again. This is a second chance for Champ Car at a Bruton Smith track, no big screw ups will be tolerated.

the chances of a "TMS" type debacle are fairly slim at LVMS:

TMS: 24 degrees banking
LVMS: 12 degrees banking

Half the banking angle tells me that the torsional loading will be lower (ask Ank to do the math on that one...I'd estimate it at 60% as much, but I'm prone to error). :gomer:

We lost Fontana..I'm going to Vegas..And I hope they run the track more than just this once! :D

manic

[FRANKY]

You gotta love Paul Tracy for making statements like that. Let's hope that the men in charge take his comments to heart and make some adjustments.

I don't think it will matter. The specs work great on road/street, but Germany wasn't the most thrilling and that was the last sizable oval since Fontana flamed out. I'll still go of course.