Thoughts on this article re: NASCAR?

[RacinM3]

http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml#fumes

[chop456]

Wishful thinking, methinks.

I did find this interesting, though;

Q. I mentioned Twin Ring Motegi, the Indianapolis 500 and the manufacturer's title, three really landmark events. Talk a little about the significance of each of those, and does any one of those carry more weight than the others? What ranks as the biggest thing that's happened to Honda this year?

ROBERT CLARKE: Well, you know, most people would think that the Indy 500 is the big carrot and the most important event, but Motegi is, I would say, equally important to us.

:D

[cart7]

This very issue was talked about on Despains show when Edsel Ford was on. They showed a sneak preview photo of the next gen "Spec" Nascar body that everyone would use. Edsel commented Ford wasn't that happy with the concept and wanted there to be more identity between the brands than just grill and headlight stickers.

It seems light years since you could go in and buy a Plymouth Superbird or a Ford Talladega and I basically lost interest in the series when they started in the direction this article describes.

We shall see.

[Rogue Leader]

Pontiac dumped NASCAR to go Road racing..... then again it doesnt really count because they arent Autonomous of GM....

[Spicoli]

Wishful thinking, methinks.

I did find this interesting, though;

Q. I mentioned Twin Ring Motegi, the Indianapolis 500 and the manufacturer's title, three really landmark events. Talk a little about the significance of each of those, and does any one of those carry more weight than the others? What ranks as the biggest thing that's happened to Honda this year?

ROBERT CLARKE: Well, you know, most people would think that the Indy 500 is the big carrot and the most important event, but Motegi is, I would say, equally important to us.

:D

Someone PLEASE post this on TF..... :thumbup:

[Skater_36]

There may be something to it. There seems to be an undercurrent of dissatisfaction among race fans that watched NA$CAR change over the course of the last 20 years. The manufacturers may also be getting tired of dancing to NA$CAR's tune. GM and Ford don't want to get caught up in a spending battle with Toyota so the time may be right for a reduction in their NA$CAR racing budgets.

[Racewriter]

Autoextremist is a lemming. He's been banging the same drum for a couple of years, hoping that the carmakers would drop bad ol' NASCAR and prop up his favorite moribund road racing series. Not really any different than Jack the Root breaking the story that teams are "lining up" to sign Foyt IV.

[racer2c]

Ford and GM are nowhere close to being in "struggle for their very survival".

Waste of pixel space.

[Madmaxfan2]

Ford and GM are nowhere close to being in "struggle for their very survival".

Waste of pixel space.
I disagree. GM and Ford are in a fight for their survival. The business is low margin, and Wall Street does not look favorably on the industry. Every new vehicle clean sheet program is a 1 billion dollar exercise, which is why so few of them are undertaken. Yea, there are lot of facilities those two firms own, but a few decisions and the buildings will lie vacant. Gee, we all thought CART would blow the IRL into the dustbin of history too in 1995.

[Skater_36]

Autoextremist is a lemming. He's been banging the same drum for a couple of years, hoping that the carmakers would drop bad ol' NASCAR and prop up his favorite moribund road racing series. Not really any different than Jack the Root breaking the story that teams are "lining up" to sign Foyt IV.

I wasn't familiar with Autoextremist so thanks for the background info. As bad as Arute? Wow! That's saying a lot.

I do believe that there are fans out there (here?) that are not happy with the direction NA$CAR has taken over the past 10 years and these same fans are being lost to other series.

[racer2c]

I disagree. GM and Ford are in a fight for their survival. The business is low margin, and Wall Street does not look favorably on the industry. Every new vehicle clean sheet program is a 1 billion dollar exercise, which is why so few of them are undertaken. Yea, there are lot of facilities those two firms own, but a few decisions and the buildings will lie vacant. Gee, we all thought CART would blow the IRL into the dustbin of history too in 1995.

Along those lines, every business in the world is in a fight for survival.
Let me know when there is no more Ford and GM ok?

[RacinM3]

World Challenge is a moribund racing series? Or are you talking about ALMS?

You don't think there's anyone at Ford or GM who aren't comfortable with the fact that the cars they're racing in NASCAR have nothing in common with the cars they sell, except for the fact that they have 4 wheels and an engine?

While I think it's a stretch to say they'll quit the huge exposure of NASCAR to go to a little but growing road racing series, I have to believe they're going to eventually pressure NASCAR by at least threatening to pull out.

[L1P1]

As the great American philosopher P.T Barnum pointed out, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the the American people. They've been gobbling up headlight stickers and hoots & hollers for some time now.

Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of engineers at Ford and GM and DC that are disgusted with the whole thing and are ready for some real racing. But then a marketing dweeb points out the window and there goes a black Monte Carlo with a big red 3 on the side.

[RacinM3]

Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of engineers at Ford and GM and DC that are disgusted with the whole thing and are ready for some real racing. But then a marketing dweeb points out the window and there goes a black Monte Carlo with a big red 3 on the side.

I think that's total bulls****. I also happen to think you're 100% correct, L1P1.

[pinniped]

It isn't half the show it used to be. If they BOTH (meaning the mfrs and NASCAR) are smart they would get together and plan it a few years ahead, agree on the specs that the series would be built around, and bring it back to real stock cars...that is far more exciting and it brought them where they are now...then the mfrs could each build an actual rear-drive car, with performance and racing in mind, sell it to the public...now hey there's an idea...and race them too....that would get them more win on Sunday buy on Monday than they have now...now what they get is more akin to signage at the track, everyone knows the cars aren't stock, no one who follows any kind of racing gives a rats ass about monte carlos and tauri....

[Madmaxfan2]

I hate to do this , but racer3 can I ask if you work for the big three? If not, then don't criticize the industry or accuse autoextremist of crying wolf. Yes, Autoxetremist not the site for accurate racing news, some of my previous posts concerning that site have been anything but favorable, yes, it takes a lemming position, but I believe this article was about NASCAR, and Autoextremist when it is not Methonal Boy, can be bloody accurate about the state of the industry.

[eiregosod]

"That gigantic sucking sound you hear is a cumulative $225 million in auto company motorsports budgets being funneled down to Daytona Beach, with little to show for it other than to be lost in NASCAR's corporate sponsor shuffle"

it depends if they can make better on that $225m by funneling it into other marketing programs!

[racer2c]

I hate to do this , but racer3 can I ask if you work for the big three? If not, then don't criticize the industry or accuse autoextremist of crying wolf. Yes, Autoxetremist not the site for accurate racing news, some of my previous posts concerning that site have been anything but favorable, yes, it takes a lemming position, but I believe this article was about NASCAR, and Autoextremist when it is not Methonal Boy, can be bloody accurate about the state of the industry.

You hate to do what? Embarrass yourself again by reminding everyone that you work in some unknown capacity at Ford? Like anyone really cares dude.

Like I said, let me know when Ford and GM are gone K? K.

[manic mechanic]

The big issue here seems to be that the cars & trucks are not "true to a showroom spec".

I'll buy that...If they were, Nextel Cup and the Busch series would be a bunch of Crown Vics racing each other, and the truck series would be dominated by Chevrolet and Dodge, with the Hemis lapping the field.

IMHO, NASCAR has been allowed to dictate what we see (and possible root for/against) to the point where they not only own the cash cow, they tell it what food to eat. :shakehead
Toyota is only the latest in a long line of transgressions NASCAR has perpetrated towards the general public.

IMHO, the only recourse we have is to let them (both NASCAR and the manufacturers) know IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we will no longer buy the bull$#it!

I suggest going into a dealership and talking to a sales manager about buying what you see running on the weekend: When you get to the mechanicals on a Monte Carlo, Intrepid, or Taurus, just laugh at them when you can't get a 2 door (Intrepid or Taurus), rear drive (any) V-8 powered (any) model like you saw race last Sunday...And then go to a Toyota dealer and refuse to even talk about a Tundra until it has a "pushrod" motor!!!

Sales managers take it personally when you laugh at them! (it's also a great stress reliever)... :rofl:

OK, I'm done with my rant... BTW, mmf2, r2c; DO EITHER OF YOU WORK FOR THE "BIG 3" IN ANY CAPACITY???? :p

manic

[Madmaxfan2]

You hate to do what? Embarrass yourself again by reminding everyone that you work in some unknown capacity at Ford? Like anyone really cares dude.

Like I said, let me know when Ford and GM are gone K? K.
No. I am not embarrassed by being an unknown here at Ford Actually. I hate to start criticizing other posters. So you dont't care that I work at Ford, big deal. I can handle that. But I think are are making the same mistake that everybody else is making, that Ford and GM are so big they can never go out of business, and that is not true. They are in that very process. In the beginning of the 70's GM alone owned at least 50% of the us auto market by itself. Now they are down to less than 30%. Bigness only cushions the fall and slows the decline. but once it rolls downhill, it is harder to stop, so dude, if you think it doesn't apply, a rich boy in Indiana also thinks the INDY 500 is so big that the IRL will never fail. we all know that story.

[racer2c]

My name is Henry Ford. I build cars.

[Railbird]

I would be interested in knowing why anyone would want to be employed by a corp that they are sure is going out of business.

Claiming Ford and/or GM is going out of business based on market share in the last few years is a lot like predicitng the end of the world based on one hundred year weather patterns. I remember when GM controlled 40 to 50 percent of the market, of course I also remember the market being a lot smaller.

But my advice to anyone so sure of their demise would be "Get out, get out now"

[Methanolandbrats]

Ford and GM will continue to build ****ty vehicles for a long, long time. Global partnerships and financing income will pad the balance sheet as they continually restructure.

[nissan gtp]

The big issue here seems to be that the cars & trucks are not "true to a showroom spec".
.....
manic

in truth, it has nothing to do with the cars (the ones raced or the ones sold). it's all about advertising and demographics. Nascar has a huge following of fans that are much more "car aware" than the average consumer, and lots are in the Wal-Mart demographic, so it's a prefect place for the big 4 to invest money. The illusion that the cup cars are "stock" has been over, only the biggest, most inbred redneck believes that anymore.

after all, caddy sponsors golf, don't they (I think so ;) ). "drive on Sunday, buy on Monday" ? don't think so, since Caddy doesn't make clubs, balls, or anything else (play on sunday, carry around in the trunk on monday just doesn't have a ring to it...) . just good advertising to a selected target demographic

[pchall]

...Edsel commented Ford wasn't that happy with the concept and wanted there to be more identity between the brands than just grill and headlight stickers.

Edsel Ford is clearly in favor of real racing and real sport.

[pchall]

Sales managers take it personally when you laugh at them! (it's also a great stress reliever)... :rofl:



manic

I've upset quite a few sales guys and their managers by knowing more about the mechanicals of their product than they did and correcting them in front of the potential buyer. Unfortunately, it never seemed to humble them. But sometimes it made cutting a decent deal impossible.

doc <--- former official car buying help to graduating students [in particular the females ;) ] in the English Dept. at Miami University of Ohio, Goddammit!!

[Madmaxfan2]

I would be interested in knowing why anyone would want to be employed by a corp that they are sure is going out of business.

Claiming Ford and/or GM is going out of business based on market share in the last few years is a lot like predicitng the end of the world based on one hundred year weather patterns. I remember when GM controlled 40 to 50 percent of the market, of course I also remember the market being a lot smaller.

But my advice to anyone so sure of their demise would be "Get out, get out now"

Because when I started I thought naively I could make a positive contribution to the effort. Given my health at the moment, I am not exactly a good candidate for a career move. Still. I hope things can be turned around. The first step is to realize you are in trouble. Which reminds me, has TG reached that point yet!