NASCAR Taking Safety Seriously

[JoeBob]

From http://espn.go.com/rpm/wc/2003/0215/1509629.html :

NASCAR wasn't pleased when a fire extinguisher failed when the emergency medical team reached Keller's car after the wreck. "That was noted,'' NASCAR vice president Jim Hunter said. "The response was fine, but the fact that the fire extinguisher did not work is not fine. We've got to improve."

[devilmaster]

I've got an idea for Jim Hunter and NASCAR.

Don't let your catchcan man be strapped to the FREAKIN CAR!!!!!!!!!

rant off

Steve

[cart7]

That was 2 cars that turned into flame balls yesterday. Safety teams better carry Bar-B-Que tongs and a flipper cause some poor drivers going to wind up well done.

[JT265]

Nascar=safety

Military=Intellegence

Womens=liberation

Oxy=moron

[pchall]

Originally posted by devilmaster
I've got an idea for Jim Hunter and NASCAR.

Don't let your catchcan man be strapped to the FREAKIN CAR!!!!!!!!!

rant off

Steve

How about giving up on those damned big pressurized cans of gasoline and getting CART style gravity rigs for all the teams?

[DaveL]

And maybe if the fuel pump was located where it was it wouldn't break off so easily sending gas spraying all over those hot parts.

[Railbird]

the fuel cans aren't pressurized the last I checked, just sloppy.


The fuel pump placement is some ridiculous throwback to the true stockcar days. I can't imagine any reason to not have them located anywhere other than the right front corner.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by Railbird
The fuel pump placement is some ridiculous throwback to the true stockcar days. I can't imagine any reason to not have them located anywhere other than the right front corner.

Exactly Bird. And up until the death of Dale Earnhardt, The idea was to make the frame 'crash-survivable', so that cars can return to the track and 'get points'. Now that cars have front and rear crush zones, we now have a new consequence for that action.

Should we start a pool to figure out how long it will take NASCAR or teams to move the fuel pump closer to a safer or a more survivable position?

Steve

[pchall]

Gotta love that great response time to Mr. Newman's Wild Ride.

re: fueling cans. How can they spray gallons of good PURE all over the place like that and NOT be pressurized?

[DaveL]

Originally posted by devilmaster
Should we start a pool to figure out how long it will take NASCAR or teams to move the fuel pump closer to a safer or a more survivable position?


The fuel pump in passengers cars is electrnonic and in the tank itself.

Hey NASCAR, wake up.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by DaveL
The fuel pump in passengers cars is electrnonic and in the tank itself.

Have you ever seen a fuel bladder up close and personal? I have. ;)

I would question the practicality of putting it in the "tank", for several reasons. The first 2 that come to mind is that in order to make it replaceable you would have to add an access port, which of course would add a potential failure point for the tank in a wreck. Additionally since the tank is filled with foam the pump would have to be located at the perimeter of the tank (see my next objection).

Even if you "permanently” inset the pump into the tank you have inserted an object that could lead to the puncture of the tank in a bad wreck.

Fuel pump in the tank is a bad idea, which isn’t to say there is not a better place then where its at.

[DaveL]

Very well then, just put it anywhere than where it is.

[Elmo T]

Originally posted by devilmaster
I've got an idea for Jim Hunter and NASCAR.

Don't let your catchcan man be strapped to the FREAKIN CAR!!!!!!!!!

rant off

Steve

I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking that :eek: :eek: . Imagine if the strap DIDN'T break. :shakehead :shakehead

[Racewriter]

The fuel pump is where it is because NASCAR rules (and the rules of nearly every oval track racing in the USA) spec a mechanically driven fuel pump. NASCAR also does not allow belt driven pumps, but mandates that they be driven off the factory-style push rod. Chevys are on the right front, Fords are on the left front, and I can't remember where Mopars are - I think left front.

The reason for the mechanical pump is that, if the car crashes, the engine usually dies. If the engine dies, the pump doesn't pump fuel anymore. Is there a better way? Perhaps. I agree with Nap about putting it in the cell, though - bad idea.

As far as changing to a gravity tank - are you claiming that there aren't fuel fires with those? The IRL had several instances last year of fires and coulda-been-really-bad fires.

[nrc]

I didn't watch the race but I surfed by during one of the rain delays just in time to hear Wood Burton talking about how proactive NASCAR has been on safety. :shakehead

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by devilmaster
Exactly Bird. And up until the death of Dale Earnhardt, The idea was to make the frame 'crash-survivable', so that cars can return to the track and 'get points'. Now that cars have front and rear crush zones, we now have a new consequence for that action.


I thought NASCAR allowed them in 2000 to weld the front ends of the car in a "stiffer" manner so the crews could improve handling.

RW?

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
I thought NASCAR allowed them in 2000 to weld the front ends of the car in a "stiffer" manner so the crews could improve handling.

RW?

It wasn't the welding itself, but some additional bracing they allowed - a rule that's been unmade now. A current Cup car has the same impact stiffness as the pre-99 cars.

[devilmaster]

RW said it better than I could. ;)

steve

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by Racewriter
It wasn't the welding itself, but some additional bracing they allowed - a rule that's been unmade now. A current Cup car has the same impact stiffness as the pre-99 cars.

Thanks for the correction.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by Elmo T
I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking that :eek: :eek: . Imagine if the strap DIDN'T break. :shakehead :shakehead

On Inside Winston Cup, Busch driver Hank Parker Jr. commented that he couldn't believe that someone would allow themselves to be strapped to the car, and that he wouldn't ever do that himself.

Perhaps there is hope for the future? ;) :D

[pchall]

Originally posted by Racewriter

As far as changing to a gravity tank - are you claiming that there aren't fuel fires with those?

Never made that claim.

But I made the CART style gravity tank suggestion because fueling can be a much simpler operation only one guy over the wall with a fueling probe and another on the deadman behind the wall involved.

NASCAR's dangerous and dated little ballet show has got to go.

Three ton floor jacks? Five lug nuts instead of one nut? A guy with a huge can of gasoline on his shoulder? Another with a catch can strapped to his waist? Two guys with airwrenches running around? All doing a complicatedly choreographed dance with slidding and skidding 3400 lb cars going by.

Give us a break -- champcars and sportcars have been doing this better and safer for more than three decades.

[DaveL]

Hose refueling, air jacks, and single lug wheels would make for a much safer environment for the pit crew. The less time they are exposed on pit road the better. A single lug would make tire changing much faster and would eliminate the dangerous problem of loose lugnuts. The air jacks would mean you wouldn't need a guy swinging the jack around as he runs out on to pit lane with cars wizzing buy, and the hose refueling would eliminate the problem of cars leaving pit road with catch or gas cans attacked. Now, does this mean that every problem would be solved? No. We have seen drivers in CART and the IRL pull away with the hose still attached. However, we don't see pit crew run over by other cars.

I highly doubt that NASCAR would lose its appeal if the fans saw a car come into the pits with all four tires layed out, the car go up on air jacks, the tire changers change the tires like they do in every other form of racing, and the fueler stick a hose in the buckeye.

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by DaveL
Hose refueling, air jacks, and single lug wheels would make for a much safer environment for the pit crew. The less time they are exposed on pit road the better. A single lug would make tire changing much faster and would eliminate the dangerous problem of loose lugnuts. The air jacks would mean you wouldn't need a guy swinging the jack around as he runs out on to pit lane with cars wizzing buy, and the hose refueling would eliminate the problem of cars leaving pit road with catch or gas cans attacked. Now, does this mean that every problem would be solved? No. We have seen drivers in CART and the IRL pull away with the hose still attached. However, we don't see pit crew run over by other cars.



Dear Dave:

I think you're wrong.

Sincerely,

Michael Andretti

Seriously, Dave, I don't disagree that air jacks and centerlock hubs wouldn't hurt anything, but my point is that there are no fail-safes. In recent years, we've seen pit fires, massive pit fuel spills, and crewmembers tossed about like bowling pins in leagues with all of those "safe" environments.

[DaveL]

Originally posted by Racewriter
Seriously, Dave, I don't disagree that air jacks and centerlock hubs wouldn't hurt anything, but my point is that there are no fail-safes. In recent years, we've seen pit fires, massive pit fuel spills, and crewmembers tossed about like bowling pins in leagues with all of those "safe" environments.

Pit stops are by nature very dangerous. I've seen F1 drivers run over their jack men because they missed their marks, and I've seen cars from every series go up in flames because an O-ring failed or fuel nozzle broke. The goal is to reduce the risk and to implement that which would achieve this. What I suggest would reduce the risk. As it is, I'd like to see a rule in CART that bans them from releasing the air jacks while the fuel hose is still engaged. Again, this reduces the risk.

NASCAR has options that would reduce the risk to the pit crew. I would like to see these options explored. While NASCAR has taken steps to improve driver safety through new seat and head restraint designs and has mandated helmets in the pits, there are some additional steps I feel it could take to reduce risk even further.