Why does Honda hate you so much?

[nrc]

Its time once again for me to point out that I was saying FHonda back when a lot of diehards were saynig that CART brought it all on themselves by daring to put a spacer under their pop-off valve.

So now we have Honda bank-rolling the entire IRL St. Pete adventure. Start to finish, top to bottom. Honda sponsorship, Honda promotion under the guise of "Andretti Green Promotions". What's a few more million dollars to punish those evil CART owners who dared to betray them.

But who are they punishing? Ganassi, Penske, and Rahal, all of whom were on the CART franchise board that screwed them and supported the decision to ditch the turbos that Honda objected to so strenuously? No, they're all fat and happy on Toyota and Honda money. Are they out to get Gerry Forsythe? He was one of the few staunch supporters of the turbo formula all along.

So it must be you. They hate you. They want to destroy the series you love, inject you with Kool Aide and force you to watch whatever they're serving up. Worship them! Worship Honda you worthless yankee worms!! :mad:

Sorry, got carried away. :eek:

[Turn7]

Hmmmm, I am a member of this forum and you just called me a worm. WB rules don't allow that. :p

[jonovision_man]

Putting aside why they went there in the first place, the fact is that they are in the IRL and they obviously will do things that benefit that series. I don't see the problem, CCWS didn't want to race there so Honda and the IRL took it over.

jono

[Riverside]

That's ok I hate FHonda too.

[RichK]

I just can't see the business model with Honda and the IRL. There are no ratings or fans, and the few fans the IRL attracts are not the "high tech" types anyway.

I wonder if their is a disconnect between Honda of Japan and reality in the USA.

It's too bad, because I like their products and their racing heritage.

[nrc]

I don't see the problem, CCWS didn't want to race there so Honda and the IRL took it over.

jono

Has that really been established? I've heard two things, that OWR's efforts were stymied by lawsuits and that it was another "no competitive bids" decision.

[sundaydriver2]

Honda's products are garbage.

I used to buy them all the time and I always had problems with them. Their cars rust out and never get the gas mileage they say they should. Their generators are just plain crap. Their motorcycles are about as ugly as it gets. Honda ATV's are a joke. Why anybody would buy any of their products is beyond me.

Why they continue to support the Injury Racing League is mind boggling. The two deserve each other though.

[Ankf00]

i'd take an 600-r, thanks :)

[RichK]

My family has owned 5 Accords since the model came out, and nothing has beaten the reliability and quality for the price. No major issues with any of them.

I bought a VFR early this year and have 8,000 trouble-free miles, and a huge grin on my face wherever I arrive.

If Honda made a full-sized pickup, I'd be first in line when the Tundra gets old. I'm a huge fan of their stuff, but not of their choice in American racing support.

[skaven]

I don't see the problem, CCWS didn't want to race there so Honda and the IRL took it over.

jonoNot true. If I recall, Champcar and the Mayor of St. Pete publically stated that they wanted the race to happen, but the promoter who had the rights to the race put an end to the negotiations. Obviously, he was bought out by Honda.

Champcar did want to race there. The mayor did want a race in 2004. Honda apparently spent their money to stop that from happening.

FHonda

[Methanolandbrats]

Honda makes good products. Would I drive one? No, because most are a little numb feeling for an enthusiast driver. I do like the RSX very much, but won't buy one because I hate the company. If Honda gave me one, I'd have it shredded. FHonda.

[jonovision_man]

Has that really been established? I've heard two things, that OWR's efforts were stymied by lawsuits and that it was another "no competitive bids" decision.

I seem to recall something of that nature too now that you mention it.

[MAXAR RE]

Man, I wish I didn't own three Hondas. :( :shakehead :flame: (2 Civics and a lawnmower from 1983)

[Ferdman]

My family has owned 5 Accords since the model came out, and nothing has beaten the reliability and quality for the price. No major issues with any of them.

I bought a VFR early this year and have 8,000 trouble-free miles, and a huge grin on my face wherever I arrive.

If Honda made a full-sized pickup, I'd be first in line when the Tundra gets old. I'm a huge fan of their stuff, but not of their choice in American racing support.

By buying Honda products, irrespective of the quality of its products, you are supporting its choice in "American racing support." :shakehead

[Railbird]

Gimmee a break

All manufactures are whores at one level or the other.

[Methanolandbrats]

Gimmee a break

All manufactures are whores at one level or the other. Honda is spending huge sums of money to destroy my sport. Fthem. I won't buy their **** either.

[RichK]

By buying Honda products, irrespective of the quality of its products, you are supporting its choice in "American racing support." :shakehead


Maybe I'll buy a Ford, oh wait, who was it that provided 100% of the IRL engines to get that "league" started?

I don't owe CART or Champcar anything. In fact, they probably owe me something for all my internet cheerleading and dragging friends to the track over the years.

I buy the products that fit me best.

[Ferdman]

That's fine for you, Rich. Nothing personal. I don't want to tell you what to do. I'm going by the premise as of the thread as started by NRC that Honda hates me. If it does, I sure as h*ll am not going to support it. It's like, here let me give you the knife to stab me with. It's also been said that the best way to show your support is with your wallet.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I don't let the whole IRL situation effect my brand loyalty, but the fact that most of what they sell now is boring keeps me from considering any Toyotas and Hondas in the near future. Well, much more so Toyota, but even after I graduate college I can't see myself driving a Civic or RSX.

[RichK]

It's cool, I base a lot of my product-buying on that premise.

However, the entire US racing scene has pretty much pissed me off, to the point where I'd have to WALK to work if I boycotted the involved manufacturers! :laugh:


That's fine for you, Rich. Nothing personal. I don't want to tell you what to do. I'm going by the premise as of the thread as started by NRC that Honda hates me. If it does, I sure as h*ll am not going to support it. It's like, here let me give you the knife to stab me with. It's also been said that the best way to show your support is with your wallet.

[nrc]

Maybe I'll buy a Ford, oh wait, who was it that provided 100% of the IRL engines to get that "league" started?

Actually there were some ex-Buick Menard's hand grenade specials in there, so 100% isn't quite right. In any case, Ford was the first of many to make the mistake of thinking you could deal with talk sense to Tony George and get anywhere.


I buy the products that fit me best.

Plenty of good cars out there to be had without supporting the whoremongers at Honda. Like M&B, I find most of them too numb and boring for my taste. For me, there's a better choice in almost all categories.

At least the whole "Honda, building engineering excellance throught racing" sham has been exposed.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Like M&B, I find most of them too numb and boring for my taste.

Hey, I said that too. I know it may be painful and embarassing, but theres nothing wrong with admitting that you agree with me. :)

[RichK]

Actually there were some ex-Buick Menard's hand grenade specials in there, so 100% isn't quite right. In any case, Ford was the first of many to make the mistake of thinking you could deal with talk sense to Tony George and get anywhere.



Ah yes, forgot about those! For some reason I thought those only showed up at Indy, probably because of all the previous years to '96.

[SteveH]

Dear Honda, when my wife needed a new car this year, we didn't look on your lot.

Dear Toyota, we didn't look on yours either.

That is all.

[Wally]

"All manufactures are whores at one level or the other."

Bird I could'nt agree with you more. But I must say that the path Honda has taken in the last 24 months is suspect. Its almost as if their honor is in question and the death of OWRS is the only thing that will remove any doubt.

[Railbird]

[Railbird]

So do I go out and slash the new Bridgestones on my econobox because those bastards supply tires for the IRL?

Like I said, gimmee a break.

If you want loyalty buy a dog.

[Racewriter]

So do I go out and slash the new Bridgestones on my econobox because those bastards supply tires for the IRL?

Like I said, gimmee a break.

If you want loyalty buy a dog.

Yep. There's a word you're looking for, Bird. Starts with 'l,' ends with 'g,' and represents a small fuzzy rodent...

[Brickman]

Its time once again for me to point out that I was saying FHonda back when a lot of diehards were saynig that CART brought it all on themselves by daring to put a spacer under their pop-off valve.

So now we have Honda bank-rolling the entire IRL St. Pete adventure. Start to finish, top to bottom. Honda sponsorship, Honda promotion under the guise of "Andretti Green Promotions". What's a few more million dollars to punish those evil CART owners who dared to betray them.

But who are they punishing? Ganassi, Penske, and Rahal, all of whom were on the CART franchise board that screwed them and supported the decision to ditch the turbos that Honda objected to so strenuously? No, they're all fat and happy on Toyota and Honda money. Are they out to get Gerry Forsythe? He was one of the few staunch supporters of the turbo formula all along.

So it must be you. They hate you. They want to destroy the series you love, inject you with Kool Aide and force you to watch whatever they're serving up. Worship them! Worship Honda you worthless yankee worms!! :mad:

Sorry, got carried away. :eek:

I have not the slightest idea what they are thinking. Pop off valve... possibly the vote to change the specs? You are correct that the ones doing the voting against Honda's prefered time line for future engine specs are the same ones NOW getting the rewards from Honda... well maybe not Penske or Ganassi, they are getting pretty well spanked by Honda in 2004. Hmmm maybe that's what Honda wants to do.

I don't recall how Green voted, but indeed they are getting rewarded the most. I don't think Honda hates Champ Car fans as much as they love beating on Toyota. Or possibly they want to build up the IRL because they have no desire to go to NASCAR, and the only alternative is Champ Car, and they've been there, and had their bumps in the road with them.

I wonder if they dislike ovals (other than their own and Indy) so much that they figure they can influence the IRL toward streets and road courses by paying the bill.

[Methanolandbrats]

So do I go out and slash the new Bridgestones on my econobox because those bastards supply tires for the IRL?

Like I said, gimmee a break.

If you want loyalty buy a dog. Honda Cash made the defections to the IRL possible. Does'nt that fencepost up your ass ever get uncomfortable?

[Michaelhatesfans]

Why they continue to support the Injury Racing League is mind boggling. The two deserve each other though.
Honda didn't anticipate that there would be any competition to the IRL at this point. Honda hoped to deal CART the deathblow when they pulled out - going so far as to fund entire teams to leave with them. When that didn't do it, they hired assasins like Rahal and Fernandez to leave weeks before Champ Car's season opener, which they really thought would kill off the series.

Douchebags. :flame:

[Railbird]

Does that airgap between your ears cause a popping?

Ford enabled the IRL to get off the ground.

Manufactures are whores working the room for the best deal.

Study a little motorsport history and get back with me.

[sundaydriver2]

Whatever, that still does not explain the actions of FHonda over the past two years. Ford did not go out of their way to **** over another series, Fonda has.

Honda is the bigest POS auto mfgs ever to come down the pike. Their cars are a POS. I owned a 89 Integra which was junk. I owned a 96 Integras that had more problems than Coby Bryants accuser. Thats not to mention the two other Honda piece of crap cars I had before that. In addition, their service departments treat customers like dirt. I would not buy a Honda product if you gave me the money.

**** HONDA.

[Brickman]

Whatever, that still does not explain the actions of FHonda over the past two years. Ford did not go out of their way to **** over another series, Fonda has.

Honda is the bigest POS auto mfgs ever to come down the pike. Their cars are a POS. I owned a 89 Integra which was junk. I owned a 96 Integras that had more problems than Coby Bryants accuser. Thats not to mention the two other Honda piece of crap cars I had before that. In addition, their service departments treat customers like dirt. I would not buy a Honda product if you gave me the money.

**** HONDA.

I think service departments are more a local thing. As far as quality. I think we all know the truth about their quality regardless of how they prop up the IRL, they did a damn good job for CART until the Spacergate and CART vote for the 3.5 spec.

http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692&CatID=1

[JT265]

I think we all know the truth about their quality regardless of how they prop up the IRL, they did a damn good job for CART until the Spacergate and CART vote for the 3.5 spec.

http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692&CatID=1


You would be referring to the Fifth Column Roger Penske led "divide and conquer" revolt against CART?

[nrc]

I think service departments are more a local thing. As far as quality. I think we all know the truth about their quality regardless of how they prop up the IRL,

Do we? Frankly I've always considered the JDP surveys to be suspect. People answer surveys based on their expectations. Someone who bought a car based on a quality reputation may overlook a few things rather than admit that their choice didn't live up to expectations. My suspicion about Honda now is that they buy everything. They bought their results in CART by outspending everyone. They're buying their results in the IRL even now. Do they buy their JD powers results? Do they buy their press reviews?

The people I know with Hondas rave about the reliability, but I hear them talking about trips to the service bay just as much as anyone else.


they did a damn good job for CART until the Spacergate and CART vote for the 3.5 spec

I disagree. Sure, they poured money into teams and sponsorships but they drove up costs, circumvented the supply rules, cheated and then acted like CART had no right to stop them. Ultimately CART would have been better off with Ford and Chevy.

[Peter Venkman]

Does that airgap between your ears cause a popping?

Ford enabled the IRL to get off the ground.

Manufactures are whores working the room for the best deal.

Study a little motorsport history and get back with me.


Excellent point, and true.

"Does that airgap between your ears cause a popping?"

No, but the echo is driving me nuts.

[Peter Venkman]

You would be referring to the Fifth Column Roger Penske led "divide and conquer" revolt against CART?


Understand something, Roger Penske is far more powerful than the defective gene ridden Tony Goerge.

The only person more powerful in American racing is France, and as the stone turns, and with Greg Penske probably taking over for his dad (globally, not just the motorsports end), even that may someday change.

I can count on one hand the mistakes that Penske has made, and it's been awhile since the last one.

[mueber]

I assume Honda does what they do because they think it makes them look good to motor racing fans. It seems just as fair for me to look at what they do and draw the opposite conclusion. Honda makes great products, and I still miss my 1989 Integra, but I will never buy another Honda product.

It is as if they are trying to drive Champ Car fans away. First they lie; now, with St. Pete’s, they steal. My assumption is that they have all the scruples of ladies of the evening with crack addiction problems, because, well, they act that way, and I’m going to treat them that way.

[Brickman]

Do we? Frankly I've always considered the JDP surveys to be suspect. People answer surveys based on their expectations. Someone who bought a car based on a quality reputation may overlook a few things rather than admit that their choice didn't live up to expectations. My suspicion about Honda now is that they buy everything. They bought their results in CART by outspending everyone. They're buying their results in the IRL even now. Do they buy their JD powers results? Do they buy their press reviews?

The people I know with Hondas rave about the reliability, but I hear them talking about trips to the service bay just as much as anyone else.



I disagree. Sure, they poured money into teams and sponsorships but they drove up costs, circumvented the supply rules, cheated and then acted like CART had no right to stop them. Ultimately CART would have been better off with Ford and Chevy.

I think the JDP surveys better than none. If it were like you say... people that buy Caddys or chevys would be equal to all the others, they are not because the quality isn't. I have always gotten twice out of what I payed on an extended warrenty with a Chevy, not even a dime on a Toyota.

Was Honda mad because the circumvented the rules and got caught or because what CART did (not following procedurers) when they were caught? Seems the latter.

"Ultimately CART would have been better off with Ford and Chevy" I fully agree! The manufacturer money thrown around by Toyota and Honda screwed up CART as much as it is screwing up the IRL. Never liked that business model, never will.

By the way... Does anyone know why Ford did what they did in helping the IRL? Any agreement in writing between the two or any verbal promises made by either party?

[Brickman]

You would be referring to the Fifth Column Roger Penske led "divide and conquer" revolt against CART?

He just followed the money just like most of the rest. He just did it a year ahead of time because he knew Toyota would jump leagues. One could argue that he was helping CART by adopting like specs with the IRL. But not me, I thought Ford's idea of a spec engines was the right thing to do.

[JT265]

By the way... Does anyone know why Ford did what they did in helping the IRL?


Someone had to supply the powerplants for all of the '94 &'95 spec showcars that the franchise board members sold to the startup earl teams.

Didn't they?

Remember, there is no whore like an old whore. And that hold true on both sides.

[Ziggy]

somethings need cleared up here.

Cosworth had the engines laying around in 1996. Ford asked them to lease the engines out. They did. I dont know what one cost, but you have to remember that they were old spec with little tech. They were not exclusive either. For the bellyachers, The Chevy the Inbred Racing League is using now is a Cosworth with a Chevy emblem. Where is that outrage? Furthermore, Champcar would be dead if not for Ford.

Penske is thought by many to have knowledge of "spacergate" prior to it's actuall occurence (cant be proven, even by a boatload of lawyers) This was an inside effort to infuriate both japanese engine manufactures. Penske was hedging on the outcome, and it's end effect was Penske Racing getting the Toyota engine and its associated dollars. The double dip side of things come into play when one considers Roger is part owner of Illmore Engineering. They are the maker of the "Honda" earl motor. (the sad point is, Im starting to need Earl reference material to keep up with all this underhanded bs)

Now on to Honda. I doubt very much if Honda is worried about a half dozen posters on a little known Internet message board. I will also go on to tell you of my history with Honda automobiles and Honda motorcycles. I have bought brand new two Honda auto's and two Honda bikes, with countless parts for the bikes. (raced a Honda) The cars, never laid a wrench on them. Good service to boot. The bikes, well, nobody mass produces a better engine, nobody. I been out of the bike game for sometime, but my extensive history with Honda motorcycle engines with both enthusiast and racers is exemplary.

Honda does not race in the US to appease the US fan. In truth, they could give a crap about the US fan. They are after National pride within their own country. Why else would they run rough shod over the US openwheel scene? It's not like they can brag on their F1 effort. (which is not shabby IMO) There F1 stuff is killer, but the total package is not there yet, rest assured, it 'aint the engine.

Screw em, I would never buy another Honda (and I really like the S2000) I also really like the Toyota truck (which I bought a brand new one in 1992) and this my friends, may be the best vehicle I EVER owned.

Ziggy

[Lizzerd]

By the way... Does anyone know why Ford did what they did in helping the IRL?


Someone had to supply the powerplants for all of the '94 &'95 spec showcars that the franchise board members sold to the startup earl teams.

Didn't they?

Remember, there is no whore like an old whore. And that hold true on both sides.

CART, at the time, could have caused the irl to be still born. Yep, the teams could have kept the '95 chassis, raced them in the first two irl races and taken the majority of the top 25 points places, participated in the 500, and gone their own way.

20/20 hindsight is so... 20/20.

[Ziggy]

CART, at the time, could have caused the irl to be still born. Yep, the teams could have kept the '95 chassis, raced them in the first two irl races and taken the majority of the top 25 points places, participated in the 500, and gone their own way.

Or they could have listened to Roger and had a race in Michigan..... which Adrian Fernadez could goof up by crowding a road racer named Bryan Herta... who could then run into Jimmy Vasser and cause a major bling bling. Oh the outrage of those evil scumbags jumping in their backup cars!

An episode that will live in infamy in the pea brains of Lemmings everywhere. All 3000 of them!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you have a Brazilian forcing the class of the field, a guy from Holland the country no less, into a pit out accident and a DNF. While a Columbian spins and causes an Italian to smash both his feet off a fence standard. The whole fiasco ends with a hapless backmarker rube getting his mug on the Borg Warner.

That my friends, was the end of the Indianapolis 500

Ziggy

[formulaben]

I can count on one hand the mistakes that Penske has made, and it's been awhile since the last one.


Let me help you:

Failing to qualify for Five Hunnert
Keeping Al Unser Jr for far too long
Keeping Mercedes for too long
Keeping Goodyear tires for far too long
Indecisive on chassis choice
Questionable driver signings (Jan Magnussen, Tarso Marques, etc.)
1999; an unmitigated disaster


And the last two grandaddies:

Going to the IRL
"Trying" to merge the IRL and CART

[JT265]

The Chevy the Inbred Racing League is using now is a Cosworth with a Chevy emblem. Where is that outrage? Furthermore, Champcar would be dead if not for Ford.

I agree Zig. But like 'bird, I'm merely pointing out the fact that 99.398% of these guys are whores.

If the vaunted franchise holders had of refused to sell their show cars, where would that have left the earl?

And, although we owe Dan Davis gratitude, and while I'd like to think that everything they've done has been pure with regard to saving Champcar, you just know that if he hasn't worked the room, its likely because there hasn't been an opportunity yet. Although the Cossie "Chebbie" is sweet in a train wreck sorta way.

To clarify, I like loyalty, which is why I like dogs. ;)

My bitch is this. Engines, badges, chassis makers and sponsors come and go. No biggie. But look hard at the last two years of HonDUH's involvement and Stevie Wonder would be the 1st person to see that Clarke and Elliot have done way more than walk away. A quick timeline from an old guy with a bad memory...

April 2002: Elliot reinterates " we have no desire to be involved in a low tech series, hence we are not interested in earl".

May 2002: Elliot and Clarke: "We at HPD are proud to announce our involvement with the earl and the Indy 500, staring in 2003.

August 2002: Robert Clarke says: " We haven't had discussions with any of our ChampCar teams about defecting to the irl".

And then we could discuss the litany of teams that have followed the HonDUH yen across the street, including the last two that could mount a charge without any visible or viable sponsors on their cars.

If it smells like crap, bury it or flush it.

And now, Mumbles "good" friend Barry Yen, who capitulated on PT's 500 win and was so sickened by the split and the politics that he had to sell his team (yeah right), has emerged as the guy with a yen to promote St. Pete.

Dear Mr. Clarke. Don't go away mad. Just F*** Off and go away. K?

[Railbird]

Manufacture involvement can be a "sticky wicket" a "double edged sword" a "first step down a slippery slope" or whatever lame cliche you choose.

As an engine supplier selling parts they are fine.

As a race sponsor supplying promotional effort and hospitality they are great.

When they progress to team owners and engine lease managers they have effectively transformed themselves to part of the series management.

Then some faceless accountant type who has never been to a racetrack decides their target market has moved and calls for a change in strategy.

Every manufacture involved in racing has at one time or the other packed their bags and left.


Did I tell you about the new dog we are adopting? Cute little mutt that seems to have moved right in. We'll feed her and probably let her sleep on the couch. I doubt we let her take over the checkbook .

[JT265]

I doubt we let her take over the checkbook .

Congrats on the mutt 'bird.

Dogs are about the coolest species on earth. Scratch their ears some, toss a ball or a bone, and serve 'em up some lunch and you're good to go.

Oh yeah, and DON'T step into that super-green patch of grass that sprouted like a bitch last night either. ;)

As far as the checkbook goes, no need. What's the mutt thinking when you blast home?

"here comes that dumb bitch that's gonna play with me for a minute, talk to me like I'm some dumbass newborn, and then feed me".

What's left to buy?

[FRANKY]

somethings need cleared up here.

Cosworth had the engines laying around in 1996. Ford asked them to lease the engines out. They did. I dont know what one cost, but you have to remember that they were old spec with little tech. They were not exclusive either. For the bellyachers, The Chevy the Inbred Racing League is using now is a Cosworth with a Chevy emblem. Where is that outrage? Furthermore, Champcar would be dead if not for Ford.

Penske is thought by many to have knowledge of "spacergate" prior to it's actuall occurence (cant be proven, even by a boatload of lawyers) This was an inside effort to infuriate both japanese engine manufactures. Penske was hedging on the outcome, and it's end effect was Penske Racing getting the Toyota engine and its associated dollars. The double dip side of things come into play when one considers Roger is part owner of Illmore Engineering. They are the maker of the "Honda" earl motor. (the sad point is, Im starting to need Earl reference material to keep up with all this underhanded bs)

Now on to Honda. I doubt very much if Honda is worried about a half dozen posters on a little known Internet message board. I will also go on to tell you of my history with Honda automobiles and Honda motorcycles. I have bought brand new two Honda auto's and two Honda bikes, with countless parts for the bikes. (raced a Honda) The cars, never laid a wrench on them. Good service to boot. The bikes, well, nobody mass produces a better engine, nobody. I been out of the bike game for sometime, but my extensive history with Honda motorcycle engines with both enthusiast and racers is exemplary.

Honda does not race in the US to appease the US fan. In truth, they could give a crap about the US fan. They are after National pride within their own country. Why else would they run rough shod over the US openwheel scene? It's not like they can brag on their F1 effort. (which is not shabby IMO) There F1 stuff is killer, but the total package is not there yet, rest assured, it 'aint the engine.

Screw em, I would never buy another Honda (and I really like the S2000) I also really like the Toyota truck (which I bought a brand new one in 1992) and this my friends, may be the best vehicle I EVER owned.

Ziggy


Who in Ford?

Why would Penske want to piss off both manufacturers?

[nrc]

Did I tell you about the new dog we are adopting? Cute little mutt that seems to have moved right in. We'll feed her and probably let her sleep on the couch. I doubt we let her take over the checkbook .

You don't trust her? But you keep telling us how loyal they are. :)

[Mr. Vengeance]

http://img22.exs.cx/img22/4928/1ctscan_destructive.jpg

[FTG]

If you want loyalty buy a dog.

If you're going to bend over for everyone who wants to screw you, you should charge at least 20 bucks.

[racer2c]

Why does Honda hate me so much?

Because I don't own any of their products and never will.

[Railbird]

If you're going to bend over for everyone who wants to screw you, you should charge at least 20 bucks.


care to expand on that thought?

Are you telling me that I'm blind to some kind of new day corporate loyalty?


btw, No Hondas for me, the next public display of the Stealth Cavalier will be at Road Atlanta Sep 23/25

[Racewriter]

If you're going to bend over for everyone who wants to screw you, you should charge at least 20 bucks.

CART got PLENTY of bucks from Honda...

[Jag_Warrior]

If anyone didn't buy a Honda (and bought something else) because of their switch to the IRL, unless you wrote a letter... how would they ever know how their decision has affected their sales - or if it affected their sales? Nissan recently passed them for #2 in sales. If that had happened about the time 100,000 angry CART fans sent them letters, with Nissan window stickers inside, they might give a s#!^ what we think. Did anybody do that, or write any sort of letter? I wish I had now, even though I never considered a Honda or Acura. But I didn't, so???

I think of Honda as a company that's lost focus in racing, and in making & marketing cars. If it wasn't for the head bopping, side-ways hat wearing, what up dawg, bling-blingers, Honda would have almost NO fan following in the U.S. But they still make d@mn good cars. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm sure they'll survive without my love.

[cart7]

So far it's

fToyota
fHonda
fFord

We've been called worms. (Though I've been called far worse)
Some of us have air gaps between the ears and one is getting an echo.
'bird has a pole up his ***.

Finally, buy a dog. They're loyal little mutts but can't be trusted with the check book cause they'll try and screw you anytime you bend over.

I guess next time I'll buy a Hyundai. They're not involved in racing anywhere are they?

[Railbird]

LoL

[nz_climber]

So far it's

fToyota
fHonda
fFord

We've been called worms. (Though I've been called far worse)
Some of us have air gaps between the ears and one is getting an echo.
'bird has a pole up his ***.

Finally, buy a dog. They're loyal little mutts but can't be trusted with the check book cause they'll try and screw you anytime you bend over.

I guess next time I'll buy a Hyundai. They're not involved in racing anywhere are they?


if only I had read this post first - would have saved me all the trouble of reading all the other posts!! :rofl:

[JT265]

So far it's

fToyota
fHonda
fFord

We've been called worms. (Though I've been called far worse)
Some of us have air gaps between the ears and one is getting an echo.
'bird has a pole up his ***.

Finally, buy a dog. They're loyal little mutts but can't be trusted with the check book cause they'll try and screw you anytime you bend over.

I guess next time I'll buy a Hyundai. They're not involved in racing anywhere are they?


Hmmm. I missed the worms.

Although I did HAVE a tapeworm once. But that was from a bad tendie at the Flagroom, I think.

And then there was the time I was motoring down US 41 heading for Milwaukee. I got caught short and headed for the cornfield on the trot. Not having prepared, I finished up by using a corncob.

Which turned out to be poison.

Don't get me started on THAT episode.

[Winston Wolfe]

If anyone didn't buy a Honda (and bought something else) because of their switch to the IRL, unless you wrote a letter... how would they ever know how their decision has affected their sales - or if it affected their sales? Nissan recently passed them for #2 in sales. If that had happened about the time 100,000 angry CART fans sent them letters, with Nissan window stickers inside, they might give a s#!^ what we think. Did anybody do that, or write any sort of letter? I wish I had now, even though I never considered a Honda or Acura. But I didn't, so???

I think of Honda as a company that's lost focus in racing, and in making & marketing cars. If it wasn't for the head bopping, side-ways hat wearing, what up dawg, bling-blingers, Honda would have almost NO fan following in the U.S. But they still make d@mn good cars. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm sure they'll survive without my love.

Sorry Jag, but Nissan Motor Co. aint really even close to Honda in any sales category, as far as volume sales go, and especially in the area of retail sales. Toyota is clearly #1 in retail and volume sales overall in the US and N.A, market, with approx 1.6 mill sales per... and Honda is second at 1.2 million, while Nissan is in the 780 k range. Add Lexus for TMC, Acura for AHM, and Infiniti for NMC, and you increase the gaps even further.

You make a good point on one half, in that unless you send a letter to Honda to tell them to F-off, they will never realize your silent protest.
On the other half, the bling, bling, sideways hat wearing guys dont really do anything to help AHM corporate, becuase they only buy USED HONDAs and they certainly aint going to Dealerships for service, and the parts they buy are generally aftermarket parts (exhaust, intake, wheels , suspension), so they aint putting a dime on the bottom line for Honda corporate, USA or Japan.
Honda sells 400k Accords, 300k Civics, 150K Odysseys, 120k CRVs, 140k Pilots, and a few odd thousand of the other stuff.... so they aint hurtin' for business for the few hundred rabid CART fans who post on this board. Yes, collectively over time, there could be an impact, but since they rank at the top of virtually every segment they represent, or at worst are 2nd, then they still seem to be engineering some pretty damn good products that a non-partisan CART fans would purchase.
Another thing you guys forget about is how CART officiating assured that MA Andretti did NOT win at Surfers in 02 by changing the madatory pit stop window while Andretti the lesser was following around the pace car in the monsoon, and making it so that Dominguez got the win....
Honda has done some serious supporting of a series that they seemed to never want to get involved in, based on Elliot and Clarke's original comments, but now that they are there, they are backing their horse, just as Roger has done, as well as Toyota.... and as long as Honda is cleaning Toyota's clock, they'll stick around, until it doesnt become fun anymore, or TRD takes their best and goes to NAPCAB.... which is in '06..... :shakehead

[JT265]

"Another thing you guys forget about is how CART officiating assured that MA Andretti did NOT win at Surfers in 02 by changing the madatory pit stop window while Andretti the lesser was following around the pace car in the monsoon, and making it so that Dominguez got the win...."

I'm confused. No one bitches louder than me about inconsistent calls, but if I'm reading you proper should they have kept the pit lap window the same, we would still be listening to the whiney rat bastard from pitlane bitching about his Honda powered cars?

[Jag_Warrior]

Sorry Jag, but Nissan Motor Co. aint really even close to Honda in any sales category, as far as volume sales go, and especially in the area of retail sales. Toyota is clearly #1 in retail and volume sales overall in the US and N.A, market, with approx 1.6 mill sales per... and Honda is second at 1.2 million, while Nissan is in the 780 k range. Add Lexus for TMC, Acura for AHM, and Infiniti for NMC, and you increase the gaps even further.

You make a good point on one half, in that unless you send a letter to Honda to tell them to F-off, they will never realize your silent protest.
On the other half, the bling, bling, sideways hat wearing guys dont really do anything to help AHM corporate, becuase they only buy USED HONDAs and they certainly aint going to Dealerships for service, and the parts they buy are generally aftermarket parts (exhaust, intake, wheels , suspension), so they aint putting a dime on the bottom line for Honda corporate, USA or Japan.

Sorry, I guess I really should have qualified what I was talking about. Overall, Nissan is now the second largest Japanese automobile maker, and is, in fact, ahead of Honda worldwide. The last monthly figures I have show worldwide output at Toyota at 551,040 units, Nissan at 274,392 and Honda at 273,488. I get only domestic and worldwide numbers for GM, Ford and Chrysler. I get only JDM and worldwide numbers for the Japanese makers - no visibility on how they're doing in North America.

On the bling-blingers, I'm really talking about building brand loyalty (i.e., the entire purpose for the Toyota Scion brand) and providing some sort of image (as if a coffee can muffler provides an "image"). As you know, they want the used Civic buyer to someday be a new Acura buyer. Actually Honda is dabbling in the factory aftermarket segment. I have no idea how much Honda makes from aftermarket sales, but I'm not claiming it's a real profit center... neither is racing (for anyone other than Ferrari). When I say they've lost their focus, I'm reaching back to the "name" they built while powering Senna, Prost and Zanardi. The special edition cars that rolled out... the street cred, etc. I believe it was in 2002 that Honda was the biggest sponsor in F1 (quarter of a billion $ ?). Now they're one of two companies that's keeping the IRL afloat - and F1 has no more importance here than the IRL or CCWS (+/-). It would take several years (and Jensen's help) to rebuild their rep in F1. Meanwhile, they lose #2 to Nissan worlwide.

My mistake was not loading up on Nissan shares when it was hovering around $9. My other mistake was forgetting a cute someone's birthday. But with the money, I could buy some happiness! :laugh:

[mueber]

If anyone didn't buy a Honda (and bought something else) because of their switch to the IRL, unless you wrote a letter... how would they ever know how their decision has affected their sales - or if it affected their sales? Nissan recently passed them for #2 in sales. If that had happened about the time 100,000 angry CART fans sent them letters, with Nissan window stickers inside, they might give a s#!^ what we think. Did anybody do that, or write any sort of letter? I wish I had now, even though I never considered a Honda or Acura. But I didn't, so???

I think of Honda as a company that's lost focus in racing, and in making & marketing cars. If it wasn't for the head bopping, side-ways hat wearing, what up dawg, bling-blingers, Honda would have almost NO fan following in the U.S. But they still make d@mn good cars. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm sure they'll survive without my love.

I wrote such a letter to Honda. It was a thing of beauty: professional, even-toned, business format, addressed to an appropriate guy. I got absolutely no response, none, not a word. When they went to the IRL, I sent a dashed off email to Target and got an immediate, courteous, albeit predictable response.

Now, I traded in the Integra for a Mazda, and I haven't been in a Target since they went IRLing with Chip D'streetwalker. But I can at least rationalize going into a Target and buying something.

With Honda, I just can't, because they seem to have the same opinion of me that Boy George does.

[oddlycalm]

Honda is no longer the same company it was when Soichiro Honda was alive. I see this on every level of the company. I haven't been a Honda motorcycle customer in many years and never was a Honda car customer, but I remain a Honda supplier. What I have seen is a culture of earnest inquisitiveness and honor devolve into a culture of arrogance and lazy thinking. In the old days if I went to them and told them I thought they were making a mistake, they would sit down and analyze the situation. In recent years I no longer bother after getting waived off one to many times. I'm perfectly content to watch them make the same mistakes time after time, and have to spend double on tooling jobs twice. :shakehead

What I see day to day in the guts of the company is reflected in their racing posture as well. They still have incredible technical resources, but they often squander them carelessly and program course corrections that used to happen quickly now take multiple seasons. Under Mr. Honda it would not have taken 5 seasons to get a competitive engine into an F1 car, there would never be an Ilmor badged as a Honda and there would be no costly MotoGP engine "enhancements" that yield zero improvement at the track while Yamaha walks off with the championship. Without Mr. Honda the company that bears his name has become a lot like their nearby competitor at Kariya, and that pretty much say it all. :thumdown:

oc