Ponder this theory.....

[Rogue Leader]

So this year CCWS finishes out, next year a team comes back... Seems Toyota decides to go Cabbing and DROPS IRL. TG cant afford to subsidize everyone, a few teams fold, but Roger Penske the "survivor", makes the jump BACK to CCWS! And Dashley, after the roadcourse test realizes that the IRL sucks and brings Bryan Herta with him to drive for Penske, as Helio has had too much kool aid, and Sham cant drive.

I know the circumstances arent fully fleshed out and far fetched, but considering currrent events I see something like this as a possibility.

What would the Gomers say? What would TG say?

[nissan gtp]

....
What would TG say?

same as always: "It's part of the vision" :rofl:

[Michaelhatesfans]

same as always: "It's part of the vision" :rofl:
Yeah, Tony is like Pee Wee Herman after he smashes into a car and goes flying face first over the handle bars, then wheezes, "I meant to do that..."
Sad thing is, some people actually believe Tony. :shakehead

[Lizzerd]

Interesting hypothesis. I think Penske would be cordiallly welcomed in the paddock, but would be watched with a wary eye by the Three Kings.

I was told that there may be a team coming back next year, not one of the recent defectors, though. Nunn, minus Tora.

Dashley and Herta? I don't have any ill will toward Bryan, because he went where he had a job. Dario is a yen whore. Your famous wife won't get you a ride here, beech...

The Gomers would say "they never wanted to be here anyway. Let 'em go. There's plenty of dirt trackers just chomping at the bit to make the step up to the big League".

Boy George would say that it opens more doors for the grass roots racers. And, he'll be calling his sisters for more money.

[Madmaxfan2]

Interesting hypothesis. I think Penske would be cordiallly welcomed in the paddock, but would be watched with a wary eye by the Three Kings.

I was told that there may be a team coming back next year, not one of the recent defectors, though. Nunn, minus Tora.

Dashley and Herta? I don't have any ill will toward Bryan, because he went where he had a job. Dario is a yen whore. Your famous wife won't get you a ride here, beech...

The Gomers would say "they never wanted to be here anyway. Let 'em go. There's plenty of dirt trackers just chomping at the bit to make the step up to the big League".

Boy George would say that it opens more doors for the grass roots racers. And, he'll be calling his sisters for more money.

Tony"s sisters may have no more $$ to give! Several of those grass root racers have caught on, but you are right, he might still try.

[Methanolandbrats]

Entirely possible scenario. FTG's attempt to generate interest in the 497.5 by screwing around with qualifying won't work. It's a transparent attempt to replace real bumping now that they know they won't have 33 cars any time soon. A big team defecting back to Champcar would would be a watershed event. I'd welcome Penske back just because it would kneecap FTG.

[pchall]

I'd welcome Penske back just because it would kneecap FTG.

I'd "welcome" Penske back only if Champcar requires him to wear a shock belt every race and lets me follow him all weekend with the trigger and a backup Taser.

[Methanolandbrats]

I'd "welcome" Penske back only if Champcar requires him to wear a shock belt every race and lets me follow him all weekend with the trigger and a backup Taser. Yes, he would need a short, stout leash. Still, the potential impact on sponsors and the IRL to have the most successful old-school team switch sides would huge. I think it would be worth it.

[Skater_36]

Tony"s sisters may have no more $$ to give! Several of those grass root racers have caught on, but you are right, he might still try.

I thought I had heard something about the purse strings on the family trust being pulled tighter together with regard to Tonys hobby, the IRL. Future spending may have to come out of Tony's share of the fortune because the siblings are watching out for their own nest eggs.

Penske to CCWS? Stranger things have happened but I think even Penske is becoming disenchanted with the state of open wheel racing today. If there is no unification, and all signals point to that, then he may just sell off the team after 2005 or 2006 and watch his stock cars on the weekends.

[cart7]

Penske to CCWS? Stranger things have happened but I think even Penske is becoming disenchanted with the state of open wheel racing today. If there is no unification, and all signals point to that, then he may just sell off the team after 2005 or 2006 and watch his stock cars on the weekends.

I have a feeling you're right.

[FRANKY]

Penske out of open wheel? Could happen, I suppose. More likely he will stay and try to race. I don't think he will be going CCWS anytime.

[oddlycalm]

Sad thing is, some people actually believe Tony. :shakehead

There are always people ready and willing to believe the big lie, which is why it continues to be used. Cliches like "there's a sucker born every minute" exit for a very good reason.

oc

[gjc2]

The money offered by Honda, Toyota, and TG not withstanding, I’m sure none of the defectors had any love for Mr. George’s various visions, but just wanted to see one open wheel series, and want that series to include the Indianapolis 500. They believed CART was killable, actually they were correct, but they didn’t foresee the CCWS “phoenix” rising form the ashes.

Now, if they believe the IRL is killable will they come back?

If the IRL did fold, will TG try to make the I500 a Nextel Cup race? I don’t think so. I doubt NASCAR would want to take the World 600 out of it’s now traditional date, and if they did, I’m sure TG would lose his August Cup date. They could make the Indianapolis 500 a USAC Silver Crown race, how about NASCAR modified? Do you think F1 would like to try oval racing? Has anyone ever tried racing sports cars on an oval? Maybe Tony can check himself into a mental institution and the Indianapolis 500 could be part of the Champ Car World Series.

Just some thoughts.

George

[Sean O'Gorman]

I don't think any of the team owners in the IRL have any strong feelings one way or another towards the vision of the series, they just want a sponsorship check and the IRL is the place to get it. Unfortunately, rather invest time and energy to do their part to help grow the sport for the long run, it is easier to just take engine manufacturer money and only look out for the short term, and that is why we're in the situation with open wheel.

[RTKar]

I don't think any of the team owners in the IRL have any strong feelings one way or another towards the vision of the series, they just want a sponsorship check and the IRL is the place to get it. Unfortunately, rather invest time and energy to do their part to help grow the sport for the long run, it is easier to just take engine manufacturer money and only look out for the short term, and that is why we're in the situation with open wheel.

Yup, that could have been said of all but a few CART owners in the 90's and the same can be said of them now that they are in the irl. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. I'm beginning to think watching whatever form of racing you can find at the local level may be the way to go...folks that do it for the love of it.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'm beginning to think watching whatever form of racing you can find at the local level may be the way to go...folks that do it for the love of it.

I know exactly what you're saying. I've been thinking about that alot over the past 2 years as I've got more serious into autocross and started getting to know the NASA Honda Challenge & other club racers on the honda-tech.com road racing/auto-x forums. It starts to get old going to races year after year to watch a series that is in worse shape than the year before. At least with the club level racing, it seems like things are on the rise.

Still, there is something about being in the presence of 20-50,000+ race fans at the track to see high level, big buck, professional race teams, which is something the club racing and autocross can't replicate.

[dando]

I just can't see it happening. Penske is like Gollum and Indy is The Ring for him. Just can't see him turning has back on it....again. But, stranger things have happened, and maybe the road racing package has made the Kool Aid taste a bit sour.

-Kevin

[RTKar]

I know exactly what you're saying. I've been thinking about that alot over the past 2 years as I've got more serious into autocross and started getting to know the NASA Honda Challenge & other club racers on the honda-tech.com road racing/auto-x forums. It starts to get old going to races year after year to watch a series that is in worse shape than the year before. At least with the club level racing, it seems like things are on the rise.

Still, there is something about being in the presence of 20-50,000+ race fans at the track to see high level, big buck, professional race teams, which is something the club racing and autocross can't replicate.

F1... :thumbup: It's a piranha club but at least it's interesting to follow. I'm not burying Champcar just yet but they REALLY need to get their act together soon.

[anait]

I just can't see it happening. Penske is like Gollum and Indy is The Ring for him. Just can't see him turning has back on it....

'I wantssss it, my precioussssss..' :eek: :D

[4wheeldrifter]

Penske should be welcomed back with the same zeal as one would welcome a case of the crabs. Of all the kool-aid drinking owners that bailed to Earlville, I'd put him on the bottom of the list of those I'd welcome back. He's easily the most dangerous and self-serving of the bunch, and THAT is really saying something.

He serves a better purpose in the land of whirling yen-mobile. He can do more damage to Tony there than here.

[mueber]

Penske should be welcomed back with the same zeal as one would welcome a case of the crabs. Of all the kool-aid drinking owners that bailed to Earlville, I'd put him on the bottom of the list of those I'd welcome back. He's easily the most dangerous and self-serving of the bunch, and THAT is really saying something.

He serves a better purpose in the land of whirling yen-mobile. He can do more damage to Tony there than here.

“No Penske” should be written into the corporate charter. ChampCar has to attract as many quality teams as it can get, but there is a limit to even humility. Penske, a founder of CART, turns his back on the organization for Toyota and Marlboro money, goes to the competing league and touts that league? That's over the limit.

No Penske, ever, period.

As for the rest of it, who cares? The IRL is going to be here for as long as Tony George is alive, in the unlikely event that I am wrong about that, the Gomerville 500 will be sanctioned by NASCAR, or some other organization. ChampCar has to find a way to survive and later to succeed while dealing with that fact. To date, I think they are doing a pretty good job of it. If they continue on that path, I see some of the small teams in the IRL returning to ChampCar, at least in the near term.

[TravelGal]

Yup, that could have been said of all but a few CART owners in the 90's and the same can be said of them now that they are in the irl. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. I'm beginning to think watching whatever form of racing you can find at the local level may be the way to go...folks that do it for the love of it.

Spot on. It happens in every sport though. Just reading how "they shut down" the National Hockey League today. Money, the root of all evil. It's a cliche because it's true in so many cases.

[Andrew Longman]

If Penske thinks he can make more money in CCWS then he will try to come back.

If Toyota money is going to NASCAR and they offer a better deal than Dodge, then find Penske shifting resources there.

But even at that, if Marlboro leaves open wheel racing for, say, NASCAR, because the I500 is no longer that important to them, then there is nothing keeping Penske out of CCWS and running his beloved I500 as a one off.

For most sponsors and I think for Penske too, CCWS + I500 is more attractive than a full season of IRL. The tobacco laws make that impossible for Marlboro.

Even without the I500, if you take away Toyota and tobacco money, CCWS is clearly the more compelling business case for owners

[rabbit]

"I look forward to things improving and I want it to be so good that Rahal, Penske and Ganassi and all those guys will come back so we can run against them. I miss them."

-- Paul Newman

[Sean O'Gorman]

When did he say that?

And for the record, I think Newman is right. However, if the do return, they shouldn't have any influence at all on how the series is run.

[Methanolandbrats]

"I look forward to things improving and I want it to be so good that Rahal, Penske and Ganassi and all those guys will come back so we can run against them. I miss them."

-- Paul Newman
Right. Pure sportmanship. And an additional benefit is it would be the death rattle of the IRL. :thumbup:

[rabbit]

When did he say that?Can't find it online yet. The article just moved today. Quote's in the last graph.

Newman sees Champ Car series moving in right direction
By MIKE HARRIS
AP Motorsports Writer

For a series that was almost dead and buried nine months ago, the Champ Car World Series is showing some real signs of life these days.

Eleven races into its first season under the stewardship of owners Kevin Kalkhoven, Paul Gentilozzi and Gerald Forsythe, the Champ Car series has a highly competitive 18-car field, a compelling championship battle between Newman-Haas Racing teammates Sebastien Bourdais and Bruno Junqueira, big crowds at most evemts and, most importantly, some new interest from corporate America that could bode well for its future.

``Everything I see out there right now is positive,'' said Paul Newman, co-owner of the Newman-Haas team, as well as racer, businessman, Academy Award-winning actor and Champ Car's biggest cheerleader.

Newman, whose energy and determination belie his 79 years, has always tried to keep a low profile in racing. But he has recently, and reluctantly, taken a leadership role in the battle to get the once-moribund open-wheel series back to the prominence it enjoyed as Championship Auto Racing Teams before the rival Indy Racing League began competition in 1996 and split both allegiance and the fan base.

``I didn't have to be involved before,'' Newman said in an interview with The Associated Press. ``I could simply be kind of an absentee landlord, but I have a vested interest in this series and its future. And I wouldn't be here if I didn't think this offered great promise.''

Newman said he is delighted that fellow team owners Kalkhoven, Gentilozzi and Forsythe stepped up to buy the assets and form a new company to run the series after CART declared bankruptcy late last year.

The series has been losing top teams and big-name drivers to the IRL for years, its television ratings have been nearly invisible — at several races in 2003, there were fewer TV viewers than spectators at the event — and teams have been struggling to attract sponsors.

Meanwhile, NASCAR has continued to grow in popularity and the IRL has kept the pressure on in the battle for existing American open-wheel fans, a job made easier with former CART championship teams like Penske Racing, Team Rahal and Chip Ganassi Racing now in the rival series.

Even Carl Haas, a longtime CART stalwart, Newman's partner and the guy who has run the team on a day-to-day basis since they got together in 1983, acknowledges he was thinking about joining the IRL this season — a move that would likely have ended the long partnership.

``Four months ago, I was a little pessimistic over it, but I see a lot of good signs right now,'' Haas said. ``The whole job isn't done, but I think it has a good chance. It has become a lot better. I want to be optimistic about it.''

And things are looking up for Champ Car.

Newman-Haas got fast food giant MacDonald's to sponsor Bourdais' car — thanks to Newman's relationship with the company through his Newman's Own food conglomerate — and Champ Car recently announced that the international company has signed a three-year deal to be the official fast food of the series.

The current TV package is on cable's Spike TV, but a new deal, which would put at least some races back on network television, is in the works, as is a deal for a new title sponsor.

``The general feeling is good and we're starting to make some progress on what I call real strategic pieces of the puzzle,'' said first-year series president Dick Eidswick. ``At this point, we're concentrating on 2005 and beyond.''

Newman said there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that can't be talked about in detail.

``It would be premature to say that everything is wonderful,'' he said. ``Some of this stuff is going to work out and some of it isn't, but I think there's going to be enough of it that's going to work out that the series will be stronger next year and stronger the year after that.

``I look forward to things improving and I want it to be so good that Rahal, Penske and Ganassi and all those guys will come back so we can run against them,'' Newman added. ``I miss them.''