#7 In the "Ten Dumbest Moment In Sports" [Archive]

BNica

10-13-04, 01:59 AM

From Sports Illustrated's 50th Anniversary edition, "Ten Dumbest Moments in Sports-it’s true someone has to win and someone has to lose, but nobody has to make these kinds of colossal blunders"

Number 7 … Memorial Day: Tony George splits off Indy Racing League from CART; as result has devalued the Indy 500, damaged open-wheel type racing, and allowed NASCAR to reign supreme.

Wow that one is pretty clear.

It would be higher if people still thought about the 500.

TroyM1

10-13-04, 06:57 AM

From Sports Illustrated's 50th Anniversary edition, "Ten Dumbest Moments in Sports-it’s true someone has to win and someone has to lose, but nobody has to make these kinds of colossal blunders"

Wow that one is pretty clear.

It would be higher if people still thought about the 500.

I can hardly wait for the IRLCREW sponsored Email/letter-writing campaign against SI. I guess we can expect a bash-SI thread on TF soon also.

KLang

10-13-04, 09:32 AM

Nothing visable at TF. I'm guessing they are not allowed to talk about it. :shakehead

NoDoors NoDales

10-13-04, 12:14 PM

The big pile up at the start of the first US 500 should be in there. It didnt do much to help CART out at the time....Hey I was there

RobGuru

10-13-04, 12:34 PM

The big pile up at the start of the first US 500 should be in there. It didnt do much to help CART out at the time....Hey I was there

Ditto. Where were you. I was betweem T3 and T4 about 20 rows up. Got a real good view (unfortunately) of the whole thing. My reaction... oh s__t!

Would've rather been there than the 497.5 though.

devilmaster

10-13-04, 12:35 PM

The big pile up at the start of the first US 500 should be in there. It didnt do much to help CART out at the time....Hey I was there

In the grand scheme of things, that accident did as much to screw up Cart as the Cogan/Andretti accident did in 82.... which is to say not at all.

you said it yourself, it didn't do much to help CART out at the time and that i will agree with. But to include it in the top 10? nah.

Steve

nrc

10-13-04, 12:52 PM

In the grand scheme of things, that accident did as much to screw up Cart as the Cogan/Andretti accident did in 82.... which is to say not at all.

you said it yourself, it didn't do much to help CART out at the time and that i will agree with. But to include it in the top 10? nah.

Steve

Not even in the top 100. It was an embarrassment, but outside of forum pissing matches it really had no impact on the big scheme.

devilmaster

10-13-04, 01:10 PM

Which brings me to another thought.... its a little on topic, but off as well.

[rant on]
And its been bugging the hell out of me.

Under-A-Cheever said it in a round table with Robin last year on TV, and some phone in caller tried to get Robin to say it again on Monday's edition of the truth. Its something the gomers harp on, so let me try to dispel it with one man's opinion.

No one can say, let me repeat, no one can say that CART would be bankrupt if Tony didn't start the IRL. You can't freakin say it. Why you ask? Simple. Cause Tony did start the IRL.

Not to go too Trekkie with it, but a IRL free timeline didn't happen, so no one can say with certainty how it would have went. K? I can't say with any certainty that CART wouldn't be bankrupt in that timeline, so don't say they would have been! Sheesh!

[rant off]
Steve

RichK

10-13-04, 01:12 PM

Methanolandbrats

10-13-04, 01:18 PM

A crash in an auto race as one of the 10 dumbest sports moments? Give me a break. Earl fans still get tingly talking about the US500 start, even as their foreign-born, leased-engine-driving, street-racing heroes continue to break their backs. Also compare the 497.5 starts prior to the FTG Regime to the current "starts". FFN must tell them to stay away from each other now.

nrc

10-13-04, 01:30 PM

No one can say, let me repeat, no one can say that CART would be bankrupt if Tony didn't start the IRL. You can't freakin say it. Why you ask? Simple. Cause Tony did start the IRL.

Exactly. I was going to give a thought on CART's biggest mistake in my reply above, but it's really impossible to make that call in isolation from Tony's idiotic move. It's called "root cause".

My first response was going to be allowing engine manufacturers to take control of the series, but that came about in part because Tony George gave them the leverage to achieve that.

Second answer would be going public, but that's pure speculation because even though it was a bad idea from the start it may not have worked out so badly if it weren't for all the problems that trickled down from the split. More importantly, it was ultimately the public ownership structure that kept CART alive when so many owners took the money and ran.

It's impossible to isolate the mistakes that CART made in the late '90s from that one big blunder that drove everything else.

devilmaster

10-13-04, 01:35 PM

It's impossible to isolate the mistakes that CART made in the late '90s from that one big blunder that drove everything else.

Yep, Tony's vision was the catalyst to the whole sad situation.

Steve

FTG

10-13-04, 02:02 PM

Tony's biggest mistake was splitting.

CART's was not staying split.

racer2c

10-13-04, 02:05 PM

Exactly. I was going to give a thought on CART's biggest mistake in my reply above, but it's really impossible to make that call in isolation from Tony's idiotic move. It's called "root cause".

My first response was going to be allowing engine manufacturers to take control of the series, but that came about in part because Tony George gave them the leverage to achieve that.

Second answer would be going public, but that's pure speculation because even though it was a bad idea from the start it may not have worked out so badly if it weren't for all the problems that trickled down from the split. More importantly, it was ultimately the public ownership structure that kept CART alive when so many owners took the money and ran.

It's impossible to isolate the mistakes that CART made in the late '90s from that one big blunder that drove everything else.

I put forth that from this point forward, "The One Big Blunder" be added to the official listing of lables for Tony's Tanrtum, copywrite nrc. :thumbup: :)

Redwing

10-13-04, 02:52 PM

The big pile up at the start of the first US 500 should be in there. It didnt do much to help CART out at the time....Hey I was there

The drivers involved in that accident are at fault, not CART. I wonder where those guys are now?

SteveH

10-13-04, 03:47 PM

The big pile up at the start of the first US 500 should be in there. It didnt do much to help CART out at the time....Hey I was there

Are you serious? The only people that bring this up are lemmings, like its some plague on CART/Champ Car. Indy has had it share of first lap accidents. F1, too. Its a bogus argument.

And I was there, also.

oddlycalm

10-13-04, 04:00 PM

If nothing else SI putting TG's tantrum #7 in the list of the 10 dumbest moments in sports over the last 50yrs makes it easier to have conversations with casual and non-racefans about it. It's a one sentence close to a topic that has proven hard for non-fans to grasp and assign significance to. This should put it in correct perspective for anyone. Formal acknowledgement of epic stupidity aside though, it's small comfort to those of us that have witnessed the destruction of the sport we love. :(

I'm not surprised to hear that the gomers are silent on this one. This is an indictment that is now in the books and will stick for all time regardless of what else is said. In the future to argue the point with the uninitiated will simply make them appear more lame than they already do, which, having seen pictures of a couple of them, is probably not possible. :gomer:

oc

racer2c

10-13-04, 05:22 PM

I'm sending ten copies to the IMS front office. Maybe one of the hired hands will 'accidentally' leave a copy on TG's desk.

RTKar

10-13-04, 06:16 PM

Tony's biggest mistake was splitting.

CART's was not staying split.

Agreed, CART should have emphasized the split. The hows, the whys and who did it. I firmly believe the US 500 should have been built up in the years after it's initial race. It could have been made into a marquee event, one that possibly could have alternated between Michigan and Fontana.

Jervis Tetch 1

10-13-04, 06:22 PM

Expect Anton to try and ban SI writers from the 497.5 in 2005. Hey, he tried to do it in 1999 before he realized he be cutting his stick off (again).

Wabbit

10-13-04, 07:32 PM

The drivers involved in that accident are at fault, not CART. I wonder where those guys are now?

Vasser - CART
Fernandez - IRL
Herta - IRL

JLMannin

10-13-04, 08:15 PM

WOW!

There were SIX blunders in the last 50 years of sports BIGGER than killing off the Indianapolis 500 and open wheel formula car racing in America? What were toe top six?

devilmaster

10-13-04, 08:21 PM

WOW!

There were SIX blunders in the last 50 years of sports BIGGER than killing off the Indianapolis 500 and open wheel formula car racing in America? What were toe top six?

Good point here.... what were the other top 9?

Steve

Sean O'Gorman

10-13-04, 08:38 PM

IRL 1996-2004 :D

IlliniRacer

10-13-04, 09:26 PM

Nothing visable at TF. I'm guessing they are not allowed to talk about it. :shakehead

http://www.tigersweat.com/images/anim15.jpg

REMAIN CALM!!!
ALL IS WELL!!!
DO NOT PANIC!!!
REMAIN CALM!!!!!!. . . .

dando

10-13-04, 09:39 PM

From Sports Illustrated's 50th Anniversary edition, "Ten Dumbest Moments in Sports-it’s true someone has to win and someone has to lose, but nobody has to make these kinds of colossal blunders"

Wow that one is pretty clear.

It would be higher if people still thought about the 500.
The silly part is that SI wrote that "...CART and IRL appear to have patched things up...." Huh? :confused:

-Kevin

Methanolandbrats

10-13-04, 09:49 PM

WOW!

There were SIX blunders in the last 50 years of sports BIGGER than killing off the Indianapolis 500 and open wheel formula car racing in America? What were toe top six? I agree. What the hell compares to destroying an almost century long tradition with Global significance.

dando

10-13-04, 09:56 PM

Good point here.... what were the other top 9?

Steve
The others were all single events:

#10 - Vikings/Cowboys trade for Herschel Walker in 1989.
#9 - Eugene Robinson of the Falcons arrested for soliciting prostitution the night before the Super Bowl in 1999.
#8 - A true classic: $.10 beer night in Cleveland on June 4, 1974.
#7 - FTG!
#6 - Bite night: Tyson bites Holyfield not once but twice on June 28, 1997.
#5 - The XFL is (still)born in 2001
#4 - Van de Velde's flop on 18 in the '01 British Open
#3 - Robin Ventura charges the mound after being plunked by a Nolan Ryan fastball, and promptly gets his @ss kicked 8/4/93. Who's yer daddy?
#2 - Portland Trailblazers draft Sam Bowie ahead of MJ in 1984
#1 - Roberto de Vincenzo signs an incorrect scorecard after the final round of the 1968 Masters, resulting in a two-stroke swing, and losing by one stroke. de Vicenzo then utters the immortal words, since spoken frequently by FTG, "What a stupid I am."

Frankly, the list is underwhelming, and appears to be biased by recency. It would have done better as a reader's poll. Heck, if they mention Robinson's screw up before the Super Bowl in '99, why not mention Stanley Wilson's cocaine binge the night before the Bengals/Niners Super Bowl redux in '89? Bill Buckner's error in '86? Disco demo night in Chicago? Any number of trades made by the NYR?

-Kevin

Methanolandbrats

10-13-04, 10:08 PM

1-6 ruined games. #7 ruined an entire sport. Just shows the stick and ball bias of SI.

oddlycalm

10-14-04, 04:31 AM

#2 certainly lives up to it's billing. I was speechless for the first 10yrs or so after they did it. For me, no words exist in the English language capable of accurately characterizing idiocy of that caliber, which is why it's #2 on the short list I guess. Sam frickin Bowie... :shakehead

oc

Andrew Longman

10-14-04, 02:27 PM

How about picking George Rogers over Lawrence Taylor?

Tim Couch over Dovovan McNabb?

Ka Jana Carter over Boselli and McNair?

But let's be fair, draft picks are crap shoots.

What about the debacle that was the 2002 Indy 500? Or the 1981 500? Pretty bad when your officials can't declare a winner because they don't even know what rules apply and how to apply them for months and months after the race. What a waste of time, energy and money for fans and teams alike.

Wheel-Nut

10-14-04, 02:45 PM

The others were all single events:

#8 - A true classic: $.10 beer night in Cleveland on June 4, 1974.

Could have been worse if it were also bat night!!

Ankf00

10-14-04, 03:16 PM

no one mentioned peyton vs leaf ;)

Sean O'Gorman

10-14-04, 03:17 PM

Tim Couch over Dovovan McNabb?

#8 - A true classic: $.10 beer night in Cleveland on June 4, 1974.

Since we're on the subject of Cleveland sports moves, where is the Danny Ferry draft pick? Or releasing Bernie Kosar, while your backup quarterback is injured? Or taking out a loan to sign Andre Rison?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Skater_36

10-14-04, 03:25 PM

Could have been worse if it were also bat night!!

Probably no worse than a typical Talladega race. :gomer:

Andrew Longman

10-14-04, 03:37 PM

no one mentioned peyton vs leaf ;)

Payton was #1. Leaf was #2. The blunder was Leaf over everyone else in the draft.

EDwardo

10-14-04, 07:06 PM

dando

10-14-04, 07:14 PM

Ka Jana Carter over Boselli and McNair?

In all honesty, the Bungles from '90-'02 should qualify in the top 5 of this list. I dare anyone to ID a more pathetic pro sports organization in the modern era.

-Kevin

devilmaster

10-14-04, 07:21 PM

In all honesty, the Bungles from '90-'02 should qualify in the top 5 of this list. I dare anyone to ID a more pathetic pro sports organization in the modern era.

-Kevin

Vancouver Grizzlies.

Steve

Racewriter

10-14-04, 09:12 PM

DaveL

10-14-04, 10:50 PM

I dare anyone to ID a more pathetic pro sports organization in the modern era.

The Clippers and their annual trips to the NBA lottery.

Jervis Tetch 1

10-14-04, 11:21 PM

Good grief. Talk about a name you never thought you'd have to hear again... :flame:In five years Bengal fans will be hearing the name of Carson Palmer. Sorry Cincinnati, but he's not the answer.

BTW, FTG and all the Kool-aid drinking freaks who truly believe in the vision and his destiny as the god of open-wheel racing.

sundaydriver2

10-14-04, 11:22 PM

How about the Minnesota North Stars organization.

A pro hockey team failing when it's basically their states national past time.

devilmaster

10-15-04, 03:37 AM

Any number of trades made by the NYR?

Talkin Hockey, there are a few blunders made which would warrant mention as hockey's contribution to the top 10 list, just off the top of my head, and in no particular order:

1) The Eric Lindros Trade debacle. Quebec trades Lindros to 2 teams, which forces the NHL to set guidelines on how to trade. Its decided by the league that the Flyers won the deal. The Flyers send 6 players, 2 draft picks and 15 million to the Nordiques. Those players make Quebec and Colorado into a multiple Stanley Cup winner. The Flyers remain Cupless since.

2) The Doug Gilmour trade - the biggest in NHL history, is probably also one of the most lopsided. In 1991, Calgary gave up Gilmour, Jamie Macoun, Ric Nattress, goaltender Rick Wamsley and prospect Kent Manderville. Coming to Calgary from the Toronto Maple Leafs was forward Gary Leeman, defensemen Michel Petit, goaltender Jeff Reese, tough guy Craig Berube and defenseman Alexander Godynyuk. This trade puts Toronto on the road to respectability and turns Calgary into an also ran until 2 years ago.

3) Clarence Campbell attending Canadiens game - The first game after suspending Montreal superstar Maurice 'Rocket' Richard for the remainder of the season and playoffs. Campbell had season tickets and would not be scared away by threats. He attended the game, and the Canadien fans hurl everything but the kitchen sink at him. Finally, someone threw a tear gas canister at Campbell. Fans clear out the Forum. Campbell forces the game to be forfeited to Detroit, whereupon the fans riot outside in Montreal till dawn, causing massive damage. Richard made a radio plea the next day to stop the rioting.

Steve

jonovision_man

10-15-04, 09:43 AM

Talkin Hockey, there are a few blunders made which would warrant mention as hockey's contribution to the top 10 list, just off the top of my head, and in no particular order:

By far, the worst trade in sports history:

Gretzky and McSorley for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas? :rolleyes:

That's like trading Schumacher and Rubens for Glock and Yoong. :)

jono

Andrew Longman

10-15-04, 09:50 AM

I think the Kansas City Chiefs deserve at least an honorable mention for passing on Dan Marino and Jim Kelly to draft Todd Blackledge. (John Elway was the #1 pick that year!)

Todd f@cking Blackledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Todd was a bust as a pro QB without doubt, but he brought JoePa his first national title.

Much more importantly, he is a totally class act and natural leader. At least he was when he was 15 and the starting sophomore QB and middle linebacker for Princeton (NJ) High School. His dad was the university line coach for the 1977 season. I was a senior at the HS. Todd and I shared punting duties. The last game of the season against Trenton the coach sent Todd into punt and he instantly refused, saying it was my last game and I should do all the kicking. He didn't want me to know that, but I later found out.

As it happened, with less than two minutes to play I snagged a hugely high snap in my endzone and got off a kick against a furious rush, preserving a one point lead. I was deemed hero for the day.

I'll always remember Todd as a remarkably mature and decent 15 year old that gave me one of my better football memories.

At the end of the school year Todd's dad took a job in Ohio and I didn't see him again until as a redshirt freshman he went into the Pitt-Penn St game during the fourth quarter. I was shocked to him on TV. He was leading a comeback until his pass out of bounds to kill the clock was intercepted. Oops.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread

Ankf00

10-15-04, 10:08 AM

was thinking bout the lindros trade just yesterday afternoon, was clarke philly's gm back then too?

devilmaster

10-15-04, 11:25 AM

By far, the worst trade in sports history:

Gretzky and McSorley for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas? :rolleyes:

That's like trading Schumacher and Rubens for Glock and Yoong. :)

jono

To be fair:

Edmonton went on to win another Stanley Cup without Gretzky. Gelinas was a part of the 'kid line' along with Adam Graves and Joe Murphy.

Gretzky put the Kings on the map, and brought them to the Stanley Cup final only to lose to Montreal.

The deal worked for both sides, and was a boon to the NHL itself. Its entirely possible LA might not be here now if not for that trade.

Steve

devilmaster

10-15-04, 11:42 AM

Heres a baseball one that should be included:

A-Rod's 25 million a year contract.....

Steve

dando

10-15-04, 12:39 PM

Talkin Hockey, there are a few blunders made which would warrant mention as hockey's contribution to the top 10 list, just off the top of my head, and in no particular order:

1) The Eric Lindros Trade debacle. Quebec trades Lindros to 2 teams, which forces the NHL to set guidelines on how to trade. Its decided by the league that the Flyers won the deal. The Flyers send 6 players, 2 draft picks and 15 million to the Nordiques. Those players make Quebec and Colorado into a multiple Stanley Cup winner. The Flyers remain Cupless since.

Well, if yer gonna bring that one up, then ya gotta mention that Forsberg was drafted with one of those picks. F Booby Clarke! :flame: :mad:

I'm convinced the Flyers have been cursed since Pelle Lindberg was killed in a car crash.

-Kevin

Andrew Longman

10-15-04, 12:41 PM

was thinking bout the lindros trade just yesterday afternoon, was clarke philly's gm back then too?

I think so. And what they gave up was doubly ridiculous because Eric made it clear he would never play in either Montreal or Quebec because he felt the English were discriminated against there. And he told Quebec that before the draft, so he was not in a forgiving mood. It was a buyers market.

dando

10-15-04, 12:41 PM

was thinking bout the lindros trade just yesterday afternoon, was clarke philly's gm back then too?
I believe so.

www.clarkemustgo.com

Man, I miss hockey. :(

-Kevin

Jervis Tetch 1

10-15-04, 12:44 PM

By far, the worst trade in sports history:

Gretzky and McSorley for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas? :rolleyes:

That's like trading Schumacher and Rubens for Glock and Yoong. :)

jonoHey, at the time it didn't seem so bad. Gretzky had wanted out of Edmonton for some time and McSore-Eye was nothing but a hired thug to protect "The Great One."

Carson was coming off a 50 goal season and was at the time one of the bright young guns of the NHL. Gelinas was promising. The trade, while considered shocking at the time ended up benefitting both teams, but more so Edmonton, who won another Cup with the REAL HEART of the team, Mark Messier.

Sure, Gretz took the Kings to the Cup in '93, but they came up empty thanks to McSore-Eye's infamous "Stickgate" incident that turned the tide of the series. Remember, the Kings were up 1-0 in the series and had a one goal lead in the final minute when the Habs got the power play thanks to the illegal stick. Montreal scored, the game went into OT where they won it in the first few minutes of play. Then the Habs won three straight.

LA hasn't been the same since. Neither has Carson. Carson won a Cup with the Oilers, but as LA hockey announcer Bob Miller once said, the trade "broke Carson's heart" and except for one more good season, he was never the same player again and just became another journeyman.

Same can be said for Gelinas, but he's STILL playing and has his name on the Cup a few more times.

Oh, BTW **** TG and congrats on his #7 ranking. You thouroughly deserved it you screwballed, drug-addled, $perm lottery winning moron.

jonovision_man

10-15-04, 02:11 PM

Hey, at the time it didn't seem so bad. Gretzky had wanted out of Edmonton for some time and McSore-Eye was nothing but a hired thug to protect "The Great One."

Carson was coming off a 50 goal season and was at the time one of the bright young guns of the NHL. Gelinas was promising. The trade, while considered shocking at the time ended up benefitting both teams, but more so Edmonton, who won another Cup with the REAL HEART of the team, Mark Messier.

Sure, Gretz took the Kings to the Cup in '93, but they came up empty thanks to McSore-Eye's infamous "Stickgate" incident that turned the tide of the series. Remember, the Kings were up 1-0 in the series and had a one goal lead in the final minute when the Habs got the power play thanks to the illegal stick. Montreal scored, the game went into OT where they won it in the first few minutes of play. Then the Habs won three straight.

LA hasn't been the same since. Neither has Carson. Carson won a Cup with the Oilers, but as LA hockey announcer Bob Miller once said, the trade "broke Carson's heart" and except for one more good season, he was never the same player again and just became another journeyman.

Same can be said for Gelinas, but he's STILL playing and has his name on the Cup a few more times.

Oh, BTW **** TG and congrats on his #7 ranking. You thouroughly deserved it you screwballed, drug-addled, $perm lottery winning moron.

The "Messier Cup" just showed how deep Edmonton was in those days, definately wasn't due to that trade!

Gelinas wasn't that great in Edmonton, and Carson was a disaster. I remember Carson and Robaitaille were coming off great seasons with the Kings, and which do the Oilers chose? :rolleyes:

Gretzky was the greatest player to play the game, and he was still in his prime when they traded him...

jono

dando

10-15-04, 05:44 PM

Vancouver Grizzlies.

Steve
Steve:

With all due respect, the Grizz is minor leagues compared to the Bungholes decade plus run of suckage. After going to the Super Bowl in '89, the Bungles managed to make the playoffs in '90, but have not had a winning record since. They also managed to waste first round picks (two #1 overall picks) on the likes of David Klingler, Ki Jana Carter, Dan 'Big Daddy' Wilkinson, and Akili Smith...three of the four never did bupkis in the NFL (some would argue that Big Daddy should be renamed Big Bust). I'm sure there are others that I'm overlooking (like Ricky Dixon).

Somehow during this time they managed to extort the citizens of Hamilton County for a $480mm stadium and training facilities. The county is stuck picking up the tab for almost all of the maintenance expenses, including repeatedly replacing the grass in PBS @ least twice a season the past 5 seasons. They couldn't even grow grass properly in the damn stadium!!! They finally gave up and replaced the real grass with Field Turf. Oh, and the fine citizens are suing the Bengals and the NFL over the stadium deal.

The sad thing is that the Reds aren't any better off than the Bengals....I'm surprised the suicide rate in Cincy isn't triple the national average. ;)

devilmaster

10-15-04, 10:04 PM

The Bengals made it to the Superbowl in 89 and to the playoffs in 90.

So right off the bat they are not the worst. If you want to stick to the NFL, i offer the Detroit Lions. 1 playoff win in 3 total playoff games since the start of the Superbowl. No appearances in the big game.

Getting back to the Grizz.... 6 years in Vancouver. Best winning percentage was .280 in their final year. Total record 101 wins, 359 losses, winning percentage of .220. 4 coaches in 6 years, no playoff appearances.

Knowing there are a few Bengals fans on here, the truth is, when you look at it statistically, there are worse organizations out there than the Bengals. (sorry bengal fans, but its the truth. It seems like Bengals fans want to be the worst, that way they can truly claim they are good at something ;) )

If you wanna go with hockey, how about another ohio team - The Calfornia Seals/Oakland Seals/California Golden Seals/Cleveland Barons. Their best season record as those teams was 29 wins, 39 losses, 11 ties. Or going way back, how about the Montreal Wanderers. In the first year of the NHL, the Wanderers arena burnt down halfway through the season, forcing the team to dissolve.

Steve