Kelley Racing [Archive] - Off Camber Forums

Jervis Tetch 1

10-15-04, 12:50 PM

DaveL

10-15-04, 01:22 PM

[jerry seinfeld]
Thaat's too bad
[/jerry seinfeld]

Jervis Tetch 1

10-15-04, 01:48 PM

Ah Dave L I was awaiting a response from you, but I wanted an original one! ;)

I still remember a response to a post I made either here or on the late, great 7G you made about the future of teams in the I*L.

The demise of the idiot league is just a matter of time...Unfortunately I can't wait that long, but in the meantime I/we can sit back and laugh at the demise of some of these "teams."

spinner26

10-15-04, 03:22 PM

I guess Kelley Racing is out after this race.

So much for the vision :gomer:

Guess what Tony? A.J.'s "team" is next and possibly Access Motorsports. Yeah, they are talking about sponsorship for next year, but until that happens (if indeed it does), enjoy your last race.

Also, RIP PDM. You guys were never a real team anyway.

"Rumor" has it that Sharp, Futaba, and Delphi go to TCGR. One year deal that was signed this year with Tom Kelley.

DaveL

10-15-04, 03:37 PM

I still remember a response to a post I made either here or on the late, great 7G you made about the future of teams in the I*L.

What did I write? I don't recall.

Skater_36

10-15-04, 04:09 PM

I guess Kelley Racing is out after this race.

So much for the vision :gomer:

Guess what Tony? A.J.'s "team" is next and possibly Access Motorsports. Yeah, they are talking about sponsorship for next year, but until that happens (if indeed it does), enjoy your last race.

Also, RIP PDM. You guys were never a real team anyway.

Kelley Racing was one of the big teams when the IRL started up but they can't compete with the ex-CART teams. Never liked Scott Sharp, he was one of the first to bash CART on TV but after his sponsorship runs out he will probably disappear. Look for him to end up with Panther, another team on the ropes.

pchall

10-15-04, 04:48 PM

Remember when Penske had Kelley in tow at Fontana and a few other CART races around 2001? I wonder how used Kelley feels now?

JLMannin

10-15-04, 06:19 PM

Kelley Racing was one of the big teams when the IRL started up but they can't compete with the ex-CART teams. Never liked Scott Sharp, he was one of the first to bash CART on TV but after his sponsorship runs out he will probably disappear. Look for him to end up with Panther, another team on the ropes.

Heck, when the irl started, even PDM was competitive. The IRL faithful wnated all the CART superteams, as they thought that would ensure the death of CART.

I can't tell you how happy I am to see that TG has forsaken the original vision about seven times over and all the original IRL teams are on the ropes or already caput.

Sharp will join the other ex-CART/IRL rejects carrying his helmet up and down pit road, looking to sub for another broken set of vertebrea

Jervis Tetch 1

10-16-04, 01:19 AM

What did I write? I don't recall.You wrote that a lot original I*L teams will fold sooner than we think.

And it's happening.

cart7

10-16-04, 09:19 AM

Kelley gone.
AJ's survivability isn't looking good at this point.
Buhl fired himself to take on a ride buyer.
Cheevers pathetic effort dangles in the wind reliant on whatever Redbull wants to do.
Hemelgarn gone, Boat gone, Access can't get Honda to extend them credit to buy engines, Schmidt forced into the pathetic IPS last year due to lack of funds, Menards run off by the IRS into a weak joint effort with Panther, John Barnes at Panther already publicly talking about the explosive costs in the earl, PDM gone, who else am I missing?

Obviously the little guy spew from TG was just that,..... a bunch of spew. :shakehead

Skater_36

10-16-04, 11:14 AM

Heck, when the irl started, even PDM was competitive. The IRL faithful wnated all the CART superteams, as they thought that would ensure the death of CART.

I can't tell you how happy I am to see that TG has forsaken the original vision about seven times over and all the original IRL teams are on the ropes or already caput.

Sharp will join the other ex-CART/IRL rejects carrying his helmet up and down pit road, looking to sub for another broken set of vertebrea

When TG showed his true colors and embraced CART teams and engine manufacturers he hung alot of people out to dry, teams, drivers and engine builders. TG's "vision" is crystal clear but the problem is that he has alienated too many people with the biggest group being fans. Pathetic TV ratings, lousy fan turnout even with free tickets. What will he do when the engine manufacturers leave? I know there are people that will tell you that TG can fund the IRL with profits from the 400 and that may be true, but, I'm not so sure the rest of the family feels like flushing money down the toilet anymore. 2006 will be a very interesting year.

JLMannin

10-16-04, 12:02 PM

I know there are people that will tell you that TG can fund the IRL with profits from the 400 and that may be true, but, I'm not so sure the rest of the family feels like flushing money down the toilet anymore. 2006 will be a very interesting year.

I think TG makes enough $$ from the BY400 to fund the irl 500, but not the whole series. I think the family could live with BY400 profits funding the 500 only.

TG might as well play this story line to the bitter end, where the irl has a one race season, just like USAC did from 81 to 95

Racewriter

10-17-04, 10:21 AM

Oh, come on JL, don't be a complete lemming. Even at a lower headcount, the 500 doesn't need to be "funded." Especially with the purse cuts. The money-losers are the other races on the schedule (and the TMS races are at least break-even propositions). Run the numbers and use a little common sense.

Amazingly enough, there's really no discussion of the Kelley issue on TF... :rofl:

Jag_Warrior

10-17-04, 09:48 PM

The money-losers are the other races on the schedule (and the TMS races are at least break-even propositions)

Do you know which races (if any) are revenue/cost sharing arrangements? To have bounced one IRL race, and not offered a replacement, I assume that TMS race wasn't really adding to the bottomline. Any details???

oddlycalm

10-18-04, 12:06 AM

All 12 EARL fans must be crying in their beer over at the Pusilanimous Pub. Guess the meek won't inherit the earth after all, eh boys? Here's to TG and the 7th dumbest move in sports over the last 50yrs. Of course that's just SI's opinion. I have him solidly in 1st place and leaving the pack in the dust.

oc

Racewriter

10-18-04, 11:24 AM

Do you know which races (if any) are revenue/cost sharing arrangements? To have bounced one IRL race, and not offered a replacement, I assume that TMS race wasn't really adding to the bottomline. Any details???

OK, here's how I understand it. Up to this point in time (which may be changing with the new road/street races), the IRL does in fact receive a "sanction fee" from every track that is a hard amount, and not contingent on gate revenues. So it's not a true "revenue share" in the way that Atlanta or Vegas were revenue shares.

The sanction fees (again, from what I'm told), can be as low as $350,000 up to as high as $2 million or more. The track pays the IRL the sanction fee, the IRL covers the cost of the event plus the purse. So, if you're paying out a $1M purse, and receiving $350K, you're going in the hole. For most tracks, event sponsorship goes exclusively to the track. The vast majority of tracks pay around a $500K fee, but TMS was paying upwards of $2M - meaning that the 2 TMS races were actually profit generators for the IRL. The fees have been a bug under Gossage's saddle for years, since other tracks pay far less. That's why he wouldn't compromise on the series finale, and cut one race next year. The June race looks iffy for 2006.

There is some word that the IRL is going to fund at least one of the road races themselves next year, so...

Skater_36

10-18-04, 12:01 PM

The sanction fees (again, from what I'm told), can be as low as $350,000 up to as high as $2 million or more. The track pays the IRL the sanction fee, the IRL covers the cost of the event plus the purse. So, if you're paying out a $1M purse, and receiving $350K, you're going in the hole. For most tracks, event sponsorship goes exclusively to the track. The vast majority of tracks pay around a $500K fee, but TMS was paying upwards of $2M - meaning that the 2 TMS races were actually profit generators for the IRL. The fees have been a bug under Gossage's saddle for years, since other tracks pay far less. That's why he wouldn't compromise on the series finale, and cut one race next year. The June race looks iffy for 2006.

There is some word that the IRL is going to fund at least one of the road races themselves next year, so...

Interesting info about TMS, thanks. What about ticket revenue? Does the track get the money for any tickets sold? I'm guessing the sponsors have to buy a certain amount of tickets to keep the tracks interested in hosting events, since spectator turnout is very light in some (many?)markets.

nrc

10-18-04, 12:19 PM

The vast majority of tracks pay around a $500K fee, but TMS was paying upwards of $2M - meaning that the 2 TMS races were actually profit generators for the IRL. The fees have been a bug under Gossage's saddle for years, since other tracks pay far less. That's why he wouldn't compromise on the series finale, and cut one race next year. The June race looks iffy for 2006.

Good lord. Can you imagine the spin coming out of lemming land if they lose the June race.
:saywhat:

DaveL

10-18-04, 12:30 PM

Interesting info about TMS, thanks. What about ticket revenue? Does the track get the money for any tickets sold? I'm guessing the sponsors have to buy a certain amount of tickets to keep the tracks interested in hosting events, since spectator turnout is very light in some (many?)markets.

What ticket revenue? The tracks either include the IRL in their NASCAR Extortion Pack season tickets, or sponsors like Marlboro give thousands of free tickets away. The percentage of people at IRL races who took the time to go out and actually buy a ticket for that specific race is very small.

DaveL

10-18-04, 12:32 PM

Good lord. Can you imagine the spin coming out of lemming land if they lose the June race.

Allow me (ahem, clear my throat): Gossage is part of a NASCAR-led conspiracy to destroy the IRL, and/or it's all part of the growth and evolution of the sport.

devilmaster

10-18-04, 12:36 PM

The sanction fees (again, from what I'm told), can be as low as $350,000 up to as high as $2 million or more.

This is a major reason why OW in any shape or form can't make a profit in America.

When one venture undercuts the price so much that even they can't make a profit on it, how is any business supposed to survive? Which is why Champcar has to look elsewhere for business. The American market has been poisoned by their competitors. CART in the mid 90s was asking 2 million for a sanctioning fee. In 10 years the sanctioning fee is (on average) a quarter of what it was.

The big question is, if Champcar were to fold tomorrow, does TG think that he'll be able to re-negotiate with all these tracks??? "Umm, well, uhhhh, since I'm the only game in town now, I want to re-negotiate your sanctioning fee. How does quadrupling it sound to you?" :shakehead

Steve

Jag_Warrior

10-18-04, 12:43 PM

OK, here's how I understand it. Up to this point in time (which may be changing with the new road/street races), the IRL does in fact receive a "sanction fee" from every track that is a hard amount, and not contingent on gate revenues. So it's not a true "revenue share" in the way that Atlanta or Vegas were revenue shares.

The sanction fees (again, from what I'm told), can be as low as $350,000 up to as high as $2 million or more. The track pays the IRL the sanction fee, the IRL covers the cost of the event plus the purse. So, if you're paying out a $1M purse, and receiving $350K, you're going in the hole. For most tracks, event sponsorship goes exclusively to the track. The vast majority of tracks pay around a $500K fee, but TMS was paying upwards of $2M - meaning that the 2 TMS races were actually profit generators for the IRL. The fees have been a bug under Gossage's saddle for years, since other tracks pay far less. That's why he wouldn't compromise on the series finale, and cut one race next year. The June race looks iffy for 2006.

There is some word that the IRL is going to fund at least one of the road races themselves next year, so...

Thanks! That filled in some blanks.

Skater_36

10-18-04, 12:57 PM

What ticket revenue? The tracks either include the IRL in their NASCAR Extortion Pack season tickets, or sponsors like Marlboro give thousands of free tickets away. The percentage of people at IRL races who took the time to go out and actually buy a ticket for that specific race is very small.

I know that there are very few actual ticket buyers for IRL races, and, I realize that the only real ticket revenue generated is from sponsors like Marlboro buying huge blocks and giving them away so that there are some people in the seats. What I'm asking is, does the track get all of the ticket revenue? If so, I also wonder if there is an agreed to number of tickets that must be purchased by sponsors?

I don't blame Gossage for dropping one of the races if he's paying so much in fees. It must really bother him that ISC is getting a better deal, again!

Steve99

10-19-04, 07:25 PM

Even at a lower headcount, the 500 doesn't need to be "funded." Especially with the purse cuts. The money-losers are the other races on the schedule (and the TMS races are at least break-even propositions). Run the numbers and use a little common sense.

But how would the teams afford the equipment to just run one race (the 497.5)? Purses for that one race would have to be raised dramatically to make it worth their while.