View Full Version : Kosworth?
Rumors that Kevin Kalkhoven may be buying Cosworth are gaining steam. Not only could this secure Champ car's engine source but it could make Kalkhoven a very popular guy with Bernie if the F1 manufacturers continue their planned split.
Where would it leave Chevy in the IRL? Who knows? I doubt that KK would break a contract, but I don't know if he would renew the deal unless it were very lucrative.
If this comes to pass, talk about things going full circle. It wasn't too long ago that TG was attempting to buy the Cosworth engines in order to shutter Champ Car.
LUCKYROLLSTEAM
10-27-04, 03:51 PM
Yeah and everything that Tony George has tried has backfired in his face.
Hmmm. stay tuned for the continuing story of how the OW racing world turns. This just keeps getting better. :)
Who would ever thought? If its true things are very interesting indeed. :D
CART T. Katz
10-27-04, 05:55 PM
in all honesty, i hope that cosworth keeps supplying the .1rl.
think about it. it's more demeaning for them to be forced to buy from your direct competetor than to have to find another supplier.
Ozarkian
10-27-04, 05:56 PM
From the looks of things, I think this off-season is going to be a lot more fun than the last.
One thing potential teams, sponsors and suppliers look for in a race series is long term stability. Owing Cosworth would be a huge step in that direction.
I would like to see engines sold in component form to teams and independent engine builders. Some of the engines components should be mandated, others could be open to modification. For example, mandate the crank shaft and connecting rods but let engine builders develop there own pistons, also provide un-ground cam shafts, allowing engine builders to try different profiles. This way Champ Car would not be a spec engine series, and all kinds of companies, not just vehicle manufactures can be involved.
George
JLMannin
10-27-04, 06:11 PM
in all honesty, i hope that cosworth keeps supplying the .1rl.
think about it. it's more demeaning for them to be forced to buy from your direct competetor than to have to find another supplier.
If Kalkoven buys Cosworth, after the contract is fufilled, the support should be pulled from the IRL. It's time for the three amigos to start taking hammers to work everyday.
Are there enough Buick, and Menard, and Cosworth DFS's in the world to fill the 500?
The last time I was in the 500 museam, there was an Alfa Romeo engine there - maybe they could bolt it into a crapwagon.
devilmaster
10-27-04, 06:12 PM
From the looks of things, I think this off-season is going to be a lot more fun than the last.
Hell, the last 3 offseasons i think.....
Steve
Finally! The October surprise for which I've been waiting!!! :D
-Kevin
Robin Miller says that Kalkhoven has been to the Cosworth facilities at Northhampton and Torrance.
oddlycalm
10-27-04, 08:56 PM
From the looks of things, I think this off-season is going to be a lot more fun than the last.Isn't that the truth. Don't care if we ever experience another off-season like the last one. :thumbup:
oc
If Kalkoven buys Cosworth, after the contract is fufilled, the support should be pulled from the IRL. It's time for the three amigos to start taking hammers to work everyday.
Patience grasshopper. It's better to wait until Toyota and Honda bail. Then the hammer becomes much bigger.
Kiwifan
10-27-04, 10:04 PM
Will Toyota be the first to Jump? ;) (unconfirmed paddock rumor.)
Rusty.
Skater_36
10-28-04, 08:35 AM
One thing potential teams, sponsors and suppliers look for in a race series is long term stability. Owing Cosworth would be a huge step in that direction.
I would like to see engines sold in component form to teams and independent engine builders. Some of the engines components should be mandated, others could be open to modification. For example, mandate the crank shaft and connecting rods but let engine builders develop there own pistons, also provide un-ground cam shafts, allowing engine builders to try different profiles. This way Champ Car would not be a spec engine series, and all kinds of companies, not just vehicle manufactures can be involved.
George
I agree. I'd like to see independant engine builders brought back in to the mix. Let Kosworth sell kits or complete engines, if manufacturers want to get involved they can build their own variation based on set components.
Skater_36
10-28-04, 08:49 AM
Will Toyota be the first to Jump? ;) (unconfirmed paddock rumor.)
Rusty.
The ship jumping will probably be fast and furious when it happens. Will the broadcast partner jump before the engine manufacturers? ABC/ESPN can't be happy with the lack of ratings or fan interest. Robin Miller is saying that Chevrolet will be gone first, possibly as early as 2005. When one of the Japanese manufacturers leaves the other won't be far behind.
JLMannin
10-28-04, 12:18 PM
Patience grasshopper. It's better to wait until Toyota and Honda bail. Then the hammer becomes much bigger.
I'm operating under the assumption that T & H will bail after next year.
Toyota and Honda have signed deals to supply engines through the 2006 season. Chevy's deal runs through the 2005 season, although rumors are heating up that they won't even bother with 2005.
Toyota and Honda have signed deals to supply engines through the 2006 season.
Do their contracts have any type of out clause? If they felt there involvement in the IRL hurt their company image would they bail and let the lawyers sort it out.
George
Insomniac
10-28-04, 09:52 PM
Don't pull the engines. Charge full price. Let TG finance OWRS. :)
Jdcooperclan
10-28-04, 10:10 PM
Insomniac has the right idea. If T & H bail it will be because the FORMULA stinks. The Cos lump wasn't really competitive, anyhow. Once they're the only alternative, KK then holds'em by the short-hairs.
Pull'em till he squeels like a pig !
oddlycalm
10-29-04, 09:17 PM
If Kalkoven was in the position of being the sole engine supplier to the EARL I can pretty much assure you he would cut them off. He doesn't seem at all like the kind of guy that would pass up a chance to return some of TG's past favors.
oc
pfc_m_drake
10-29-04, 09:28 PM
Insomniac has the right idea. If T & H bail it will be because the FORMULA stinks. The Cos lump wasn't really competitive, anyhow. Once they're the only alternative, KK then holds'em by the short-hairs.
Pull'em till he squeels like a pig !
The only flaw in that plan is that once Toyota and Honda leave the IRL, nothing stops Chevrolet from rolling out the old Chevy Gen IIIs. Since they would have no competition, the relative performance of that engine against somebody elses wouldn't matter - they'd only be competing against themselves.
At which point Cosworth Engineering isn't needed as a supplier anymore - which is where this scenario that you and others are laying out breaks down.
Jdcooperclan
10-29-04, 11:16 PM
I believe the Gen III's are the wrong displacement.
The only flaw in that plan is that once Toyota and Honda leave the IRL, nothing stops Chevrolet from rolling out the old Chevy Gen IIIs. Since they would have no competition, the relative performance of that engine against somebody elses wouldn't matter - they'd only be competing against themselves.
At which point Cosworth Engineering isn't needed as a supplier anymore - which is where this scenario that you and others are laying out breaks down.
Chevy Gen III's were designed strictly for ovals. Put them on the road courses and you have the laughing stock of racing....I guess it wouldn't be racing at that point.
pfc_m_drake
10-30-04, 07:37 PM
Well, since I recognize that people are going to believe whatever they want independent of anything, I'll just say this:
Yes, the Chevrolet Gen III has a displacement of 3.5L. However, it certainly will still mount in the current generation chassis - after all, they used it last year. And once again, under the scenario we're assuming, it really doesn't matter whether the displacement is 3.0L or 3.5L.
With regard to being designed for ovals vs road courses - I wonder which would perform better on a road course, the 3.5L Gen III (with proper gearing, electronics, etc.) or the current 3.0L engines?
But you're right - there's absolutely no possible way that the Chevrolet Gen III could be adapted to service the IRL under any circumstances (assuming Honda and Toyota leave and KK withdraws Cosworth support).
Hey, by all means if KK secures Cosworth Engineering that's fantastic...and if you want to be bullish on Champcar I'm all in favor of that too. But don't kid yourself into thinking that there wouldn't be options for the IRL under the above scenario. It's great to think they'd be totally out of luck, but the reality is that options would be out there.
Railbird
10-30-04, 08:10 PM
pfc drake is correct, we know that you can race lawn mowers and semi tractors on roadcourses, Gen 3 lumps would be no problem.
In fact, lousy engines and boat anchor trannies may create more wheel2wheel eggcitment.
Well, AR1 is reporting that Autoweek has a story saying the KK is NOT buying Cosworth and has not made a bid and that all discussion with Cosworth in the UK related to future engine supply. KK says he is happy they will be ok.
Robin Miller said last night on Windbag that Ford is meeting this week to decide whether to accept Kalkhoven's bid for Cosworth. He says that there is one other bidder.
Miller reports that Kalkhoven would keep the Chevy program because it's a money maker for Cosworth. But Chevy is also meeting this week to decide whether they will continue with their IRL program.
Paddock Talk points out that Autoweek misrepresented Kalkhoven's comment on Cosworth. Unless they have another quote from him that they didn't print, he never outright denied bidding on Cosworth.
SurfaceUnits
11-03-04, 11:00 PM
Cosworth should be relatively cheap, with no .1RL program and eff1 teams not committed.
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