View Full Version : GM Plans
Sean O'Gorman
11-03-04, 05:33 PM
GM expected to drop the Chevy Indy Car Program after '05 (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/indycar/auto/13769/)
The dominoes are falling like a house of cards. Checkmate. :rofl:
They say the ROI isn't there for the IRL, especially under the new business model. They liked the previous engine development model, but with the new rules, it doesn't make sense.
Don Quixote
11-03-04, 05:42 PM
The dominoes are falling like a house of cards. Checkmate. :rofl:
Welcome to Sean's house of mixed cliches. :D
Sean O'Gorman
11-03-04, 05:44 PM
It was actually a line from Futurama. I left out the line relating to archery because that would make it even more confusing. :D
nissan gtp
11-03-04, 06:04 PM
good news
FTG :laugh:
Surprise!!! Not. :rolleyes:
I'm predicting the IRL brought to you by Honda after Yoda's contract is up in '06.
Why would Honda stay? (I'm not saying they won't, just wondering why?)
Why would Honda stay? (I'm not saying they won't, just wondering why?)
Contract, then they are done.
I think both Toyota and Honda will consider their time in the IRL a failed experiment. I'm betting that all the current suppliers will be gone in two to three years, and a return to the speed shops & stock blocks will follow.
Skater_36
11-03-04, 06:45 PM
Honda and Toyota (along with a ton of sponsorship money) gone after 06. IRL collapses.
I think both Toyota and Honda will consider their time in the IRL a failed experiment. I'm betting that all the current suppliers will be gone in two to three years, and a return to the speed shops & stock blocks will follow.
It's all part of the version.
all the current suppliers will be gone in two to three years, and a return to the speed shops & stock blocks will follow.
Then the Indianapolis 500 would be interesting.
George
All sorts of news today heh? What was it my bud spicoli used to say about a fire in an ancient city? :gomer:
TorontoWorker
11-03-04, 08:46 PM
It's all part of the version.
Which version of the vision? (smirk)
SurfaceUnits
11-03-04, 09:08 PM
the version where t and h field 16 cars each in the May debacle :laugh:
When they say the program’s emphasis next season will be on Panther racing what they probably really mean is that Panther racing is the only team that has a firm contract with them for next year. So they're obligated to supply engines to them, but nobody should expect any serious improvement in competitiveness. Panther is probably looking at their options right now, but with their comments about budget problems this year I doubt that they have the bucks to pay for a Tonda lease.
"We've been with the IRL since its inception and we've had a great relationship over the years but the investment just doesn't make business sense anymore. This was a money decision," Duchardt said. "Honda and Toyota have driven the price up and we had to examine how much we were spending and what we were getting out of it."
"When we were successful the series worked well for us," Duchardt recalled. "The costs have been going up (with Honda and Toyota's entry in 2003) and the television ratings were either flat or down. We had to look at the bottom line; this decision was based on what's good for our business."
http://www.motorsport.com/news/arti...D=172788&FS=IRL
RM's take (http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/13773/)
And this tidbit is hilarious:
The IRL has had an opening for its vice president of sales since Mike Bucek left for the Phoenix Coyotes a couple months ago and the IRL marketing department is still searching for a title sponsor so look for a major change in the near future.
Dude leaves for an NHL team with labor strife in the offing rather than stick around w/the EARL?!? TFF. :rofl:
He also notes that the PC to Cheever deal is back on.
-Kevin
Which version of the vision? (smirk)
I don't remember, it changes too darn much.
What time is it?
Why would Honda stay? (I'm not saying they won't, just wondering why?)
Until they get a truck and Nascar effort put together I don't see them moving anywhere else. Besides, by '07 when the 500 is getting sub 3.0's, it'll still be a bargain to not only be a guaranteed winner of the Indy 500 and just imagine a Honda Element as a pace car. :gomer:
Chitowncartfreak
11-04-04, 12:07 AM
RM's take (http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/13773/)
And this tidbit is hilarious:
Dude leaves for an NHL team with labor strife in the offing rather than stick around w/the EARL?!? TFF. :rofl:
He also notes that the PC to Cheever deal is back on.
-Kevin
I didn't catch that the first time I read it - that is freakin hilarious!
When they say the program’s emphasis next season will be on Panther racing what they probably really mean is that Panther racing is the only team that has a firm contract with them for next year. So they're obligated to supply engines to them, but nobody should expect any serious improvement in competitiveness. Panther is probably looking at their options right now, but with their comments about budget problems this year I doubt that they have the bucks to pay for a Tonda lease.
Exactly. I'm sure Barnes was reading the tea leaves when he made his "costs will cause the series to implode" statement. Probably realizing Chebbie was not going to stick around after '05 and then weighing Penzoils $$ he probably wondered if he was going to have to stand in the finance line with Greg Ray to get a 2nd tier Honda engine. The Buhl statements in the RM article don't sound to hopeful for that team either. Obviously Purex cut $$ to them this year forcing Buhl to quit and take on Taylors $$. If RedBull buys Jag, will they bother hanging with Cheever any longer?
CART-LITE Presents the Indycar Series Powered by Toyota & Honda
Memo to Chevy: Say Good Bye to "The Vision" :p
Skater_36
11-04-04, 09:23 AM
Exactly. I'm sure Barnes was reading the tea leaves when he made his "costs will cause the series to implode" statement. Probably realizing Chebbie was not going to stick around after '05 and then weighing Penzoils $$ he probably wondered if he was going to have to stand in the finance line with Greg Ray to get a 2nd tier Honda engine. The Buhl statements in the RM article don't sound to hopeful for that team either. Obviously Purex cut $$ to them this year forcing Buhl to quit and take on Taylors $$. If RedBull buys Jag, will they bother hanging with Cheever any longer?
Things don't sound very positive for the Chevy teams. D&R aren't sure about their future and Panther may be done when Chevy goes away. Noticed that MBNA is making a big cut in their support of the series as well. When is the RedBull contract up with Cheever?
The stench of failure can cause companies to accelerate plans for departure.
sundaydriver2
11-04-04, 11:36 AM
All sorts of news today heh? What was it my bud spicoli used to say about a fire in an ancient city? :gomer:
Rome is burning!
Rome is burning!
did you have to bring up that ****ty show? seriously. Jim Rome? ugh.
:D
Boy do T&H have the Earl by the short hairs now.
The level to wich Idiotgrandson has royally feffed up what he had is mind boggling.
racer2c
11-04-04, 12:52 PM
I have this picture in my head of the day T & H inform Tony that they're leaving...two suit and tie guys giving a patronizinbg pat on the back to a sobing George whose head is in his hands.
How'd that Champ Car feel Sammy?
GM Racing director Doug Duchardt said Wednesday the value of the IRL "no longer met our business objectives."
He mentioned the open-wheel league's decreased television ratings - down about 20 percent from 2003 - and attendance that he described as "flat or down."
I guess GM doesn't buy the claims of growing attendance we keep hearing from the lemmings.
So champ car has an American Rookie of the Year and an American engine supplier and Tony has two Japanese engine suppliers and a Japanese Rookie of the Year. Yeah, that was in the vision. :p
Joe in LA
11-04-04, 01:10 PM
Boy do T&H have the Earl by the short hairs now.
The level to wich Idiotgrandson has royally feffed up what he had is mind boggling.
Look at it this way. The IRL requires the engine manufacturers to spend millions of dollars promoting the series, and they are probably the only ones doing so. We also know that the manufacturers are supporting several prominent teams in one way or another. Toyota can exit stage left to NASCAR as soon as the contract is up. That leaves Honda, which probably needs some racing presence, so they may stay around. But I would think they will be in a pretty good position to make some suggestions about the new rules, unless the IRL wants to give up the manufacturer money and the teams can afford to take the hit. In the meantime, I would guess that Toyota will up the ante to try and go out a winner.
The chorus to that song keeps playing in my head: "I’m turning Japanese. Ya know, I’m turning Japanese; I really think so."
God bless America, and God bless Tony George for making open wheel racing safe for Americans.
In the meantime, I would guess that Toyota will up the ante to try and go out a winner.
I think they'll mail it in and invest their money in NASCAR.
Rome is burning!
And guess who is fiddling. ;)
-Kevin
Save the Indy 500 from the Hulman-George Reign Of Error! Do it for the children.
Idiotgrandson managed alienate his original fanbase, now he's alienated his original manufacturer and supporter.
Keep up the good work Anton.
SurfaceUnits
11-04-04, 02:48 PM
yoda makes decision
Everyone assumed Toyota was going to mail in its final two years of IRL racing (2005 and 2006) and would not throw any more money at drivers and teams.
But, according to Toyota Racing Development president Jim Aust, his group is going to come out swinging in 2005.
"It's been a pretty humbling season and we are re-focusing for next year and we'll make a greater effort to close the gap," said Aust, who watched Helio Castroneves end Honda's 14-race winning streak here Sunday. "We learned in CART that in order to succeed you've got to have strength in teams and in numbers.
"Honda has eight cars that are in the hunt every weekend and, all things being equal, we have seven cars that don't measure up."
So Aust & Company are going to spend the money to upgrade. They want to add a third car to Target/Ganassi, get Morris Nunn an injection of talent and possibly add another team to the mix.
"We had to make a decision to step back or stay competitive and we've made a decision to stay competitive," said Aust, who admitted that decision could include spending money on driver's salaries, propping up teams or supplying free engines.
The price of running up front in the IRL continues to esculate -- just like the competition -- so Toyota knows it's got to ante up.
"It reminds me of CART," said Aust, whose company led the defection with Penske from Champ Car after capturing the 2001 championship. "The IRL is making similiar requirements to be competitive so we had to step back and consider our position.
Could be, but I won't believe it until I see it.
Joe in LA
11-04-04, 07:05 PM
If Toyota and Honda escalate the battle, when one or both leave, the fall will be that much further and harder.
If Toyota and Honda escalate the battle, when one or both leave, the fall will be that much further and harder.
"If"?
If Toyota and Honda escalate the battle, when one or both leave, the fall will be that much further and harder.
Exactly. Which, even remotely corporately responsible auto manufacturer would want to get in the middle of that momentary barrage of $$$ they'll start firing at one another?
Sean O'Gorman
11-04-04, 11:39 PM
Exactly. Which, even remotely corporately responsible auto manufacturer would want to get in the middle of that momentary barrage of $$$ they'll start firing at one another?
One that doesn't like money, I guess. :shrugs:
KobySon
11-05-04, 11:36 AM
Spacer-Gate II is right around the corner. I'm willing to bet on it.
Toyota will be frustrated about spending so much for so little return and accuse H of cheating.
Joe in LA
11-05-04, 01:44 PM
"If"?
I meant more than they already have--and I certainly expect they will.
Don Quixote
11-05-04, 02:56 PM
Spacer-Gate II is right around the corner. I'm willing to bet on it.
Toyota will be frustrated about spending so much for so little return and accuse H of cheating.
You've got that right. T and H will wage their little war on IMS territory, and the casualties will be high.
oddlycalm
11-05-04, 04:25 PM
If Indiana had the same number of wealthy arabs loafying around bored as the UK does, at this stage of the EARL you would be hearing endless rumors of one of them purchasing this or that team.... :laugh:
oc
SurfaceUnits
11-05-04, 11:27 PM
The gomerati at crackforum are perdickting fenders at the fivehunnert
Winston Wolfe
11-05-04, 11:50 PM
yoda makes decision
Everyone assumed Toyota was going to mail in its final two years of IRL racing (2005 and 2006) and would not throw any more money at drivers and teams.
But, according to Toyota Racing Development president Jim Aust, his group is going to come out swinging in 2005.
"It's been a pretty humbling season and we are re-focusing for next year and we'll make a greater effort to close the gap," said Aust, who watched Helio Castroneves end Honda's 14-race winning streak here Sunday. "We learned in CART that in order to succeed you've got to have strength in teams and in numbers.
"Honda has eight cars that are in the hunt every weekend and, all things being equal, we have seven cars that don't measure up."
So Aust & Company are going to spend the money to upgrade. They want to add a third car to Target/Ganassi, get Morris Nunn an injection of talent and possibly add another team to the mix.
"We had to make a decision to step back or stay competitive and we've made a decision to stay competitive," said Aust, who admitted that decision could include spending money on driver's salaries, propping up teams or supplying free engines.
The price of running up front in the IRL continues to esculate -- just like the competition -- so Toyota knows it's got to ante up.
"It reminds me of CART," said Aust, whose company led the defection with Penske from Champ Car after capturing the 2001 championship. "The IRL is making similiar requirements to be competitive so we had to step back and consider our position.
That's fine... but, this was a quote directly AFTER yoda won their final race of the year, which is more than a few weeks ago, and obviously things have changed quite a bit since then.... This quote is also BEFORE they learned that GM was gone. I will predict that 'yoda mails it in for '05.... they have their eyes focused on NCTS and NEXTEL Cup racing, not this little piss-ant so-called racing series named irl.
Now they cant have fun kicking Chebbies around, and Honda is too much of a worthy opponent for '05 who obviously figgered out how to cheat with the switch to 3.0 before the yoda guys did.
Which of the remaining EARL teams fold completely ?
Which of the original EARL teams can afford the T & H engine leases, and which will even be ALLOWED to get one of the top shelf motors ?
How many more of the originals will just pack it in.... ?
Dismal ratings, no fans, no attendance, no Network TV package, and a clueless leader have led to the disarming of TG's empire.
It couldn't have happened to a nicer fella !
Rome is definitely "en fuego".... :rofl:
Rome is burning!
A ten day regimen of Doxycyline might help the sunflower seed salesman with that. :gomer:
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