View Full Version : Pistons v. Pacers
Sean O'Gorman
11-20-04, 12:20 AM
Yeah...
:shakehead
chop456
11-20-04, 02:28 AM
The word on the street is that Reggie Miller was slapped across the face by a 6-year old girl and spent the next 45 minutes sobbing in the corner while sticking his lower lip out.
devilmaster
11-20-04, 03:31 AM
Devilmaster waits for the 'Detroit is a cesspool' comments from out of town writers. :rolleyes:
Steve
Winston Wolfe
11-20-04, 04:13 AM
as that "gangsta" Pacer posse was going "freak show" on the defenseless, home town crows of the World Champion Pistons of "Day-Twah", I was thinking of all of the underworked Accident\Slip&Fall attorneys in LA going, "Why couldn't that have happened at Staples ?"....
Will Artest ever play another NBA game?
Will those fans ever forgive themselves for wasting $8 imported beers by showering those "out of control thugs"?
Will this lead off every Sportscenter show for the next three days ?
I gots to know !!!!
Dr. Corkski
11-20-04, 05:00 AM
It's easy to blame the beer, but that was not what set Artest off. The drunk fan made the mistake of calling his album a rap album, when it really was a R&B album. :D
chop456
11-20-04, 06:02 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/chris_mannix/11/20/pacers.react/index.html
Railbird
11-20-04, 09:08 AM
Ben Wallace is a *****
can't wait fo the Christmas rematch
The word on the street is that Reggie Miller was slapped across the face by a 6-year old girl and spent the next 45 minutes sobbing in the corner while sticking his lower lip out.
Sorry Rob... But thats just wrong! :shakehead
spinner26
11-20-04, 11:45 AM
I hate the NBA more than the IRL :saywhat: , believe that, and being in Indiana, they should have gotten rid of this thug Artest long ago. Since Larry Bird didn't have the nuggets to do it maybe the NBA will. What a bunch of bull. I do not in any way promote the fans throwing things but there is absolutely NO reason for a player to go into the stands. PC people get all wacked out over a breast on tv or a towel dropping from a white slut in fron of a black football player but you'll not hear a word from Michael Powell or any of the PC pundits for the actions of a thug on national tv. Put 'em in jail where they belong. :flame:
"Will Artest ever play another NBA game?"
I would be no loss if he didn't.
It not your fathers NBA..........sad. :shakehead
EDwardo
11-20-04, 12:42 PM
What a great country!
Buy a hundred dollar ticket, throw a $8 beer on a millionaire, get your ass kicked all in a few minutes at an NBA game.
I can't wait for the lawsuits to start flowing after this. :shakehead It's no wonder I stopped watching the NBA years ago. Artest was even contrite in his comments after the game. Had to defend himself against ice and liquid?!? How pathetic! :rolleyes:
-Kevin
If it were up to me Artest would never play in another NBA game and criminal charges would be filed.
There is no excuse.
I love how the NHL is supposed to be a blood sport, but the NBA has their typical thuggery going on and the national writers will eat it up :rolleyes: ****ing idiots.
NBA == a waste of network programming time.
If it were up to me Artest would never play in another NBA game and criminal charges would be filed.
There is no excuse.
Amen!
-Kevin
chop456
11-20-04, 01:55 PM
Sorry Rob... But thats just wrong! :shakehead
C'mon. His sister's a manlier basketball player than he is! :D
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=1927360
I dig that article... in soccer, in UEFA in europe:
1. the pistons would forfeit some matches, and/or be forced to play in an EMPTY arena for MULTIPLE GAMES!
2. those players would be banned for an actually meaningful period of time, not a game or two, but a good couple of weeks
3. those fans would be hunted down by the police, and subsequently banned for life, as throwing ANYTHING onto the field of play is a serious incident, even moreso when that object contacts a player or official.
I hate the NBA more than the IRL :saywhat: , believe that, and being in Indiana, they should have gotten rid of this thug Artest long ago. Since Larry Bird didn't have the nuggets to do it maybe the NBA will. What a bunch of bull. I do not in any way promote the fans throwing things but there is absolutely NO reason for a player to go into the stands. PC people get all wacked out over a breast on tv or a towel dropping from a white slut in fron of a black football player but you'll not hear a word from Michael Powell or any of the PC pundits for the actions of a thug on national tv. Put 'em in jail where they belong. :flame:
sure there is, when the fans cross the line and put themselves into the action, if you want to threaten a player, you get what's coming, if you're oblivious to the fact that he's 200 pounds and a very lean muscular beast, then i hope your medical insurance is very thorough, not that the players should resort to that, but they should'nt even have to be making that decision in the first place
devilmaster
11-20-04, 03:53 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_PACERS_PISTONS_BRAWL?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=SPORTS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
4 Players Indefinitely suspended.
Artest, Jackson, O'Neal and Ben Wallace.
Steve
Winston Wolfe
11-20-04, 03:54 PM
sure there is, when the fans cross the line and put themselves into the action, if you want to threaten a player, you get what's coming, if you're oblivious to the fact that he's 200 pounds and a very lean muscular beast, then i hope your medical insurance is very thorough, not that the players should resort to that, but they should'nt even have to be making that decision in the first place
Ambulance chasing lawyers will be reviewing the tape, and looking for ways to make their "clients" appear as "Victims".... I would not be surprised to see the rather "husky" Hispanic man, who took a fist directly to the face, propped up in front of the local cameras to show how he has been victimized, traumatized, and how his civil rights have been violated, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.... and considering "rap star" Artest will more than likely NEVER play in another NBA contest again, this whole thing should be a shamble that we'll see played over and over on every highlight reel, whenever anyone wants to talk about the 'ugly' side of sports these days.
No player should ever go into the crowd.
Especially when they are the "visitors".
Even more so during garbage time, when they are still serving beers, and the guy who saved up all his dough for a ducket thinks its his right to be able to hassle and heckle the opposing team.
In this land of opportunity, this husky man has just received his "pay day".
Personally, I don't buying a ticket reserves you the right to act in ways you would never do in front of children or in public. I give the Rice pitchers hell twice a year in Austin, but I keep it clean. And I most certainly don't throw anything onto the field of play.
also, guys with seats that good didn't have to save any $ for anything when they're drinking 8 buck beers.
if anyone acts that way in public they know what a person that big is going to do to them, they shouldn't think because there's a bunch of cameras they're any safer
Was Artest the thug who bolted into the stands after a fan threw a drink at him?
Was Artest the same guy who was called for a flagrant foul on the court that started the entire melee?
devilmaster
11-20-04, 04:20 PM
Was Artest the thug who bolted into the stands after a fan threw a drink at him?
Was Artest the same guy who was called for a flagrant foul on the court that started the entire melee?
yes.
Basic story. Ben wallace goes in for a layup. Artest fouls him. Ben shoves hard back. Both teams shove around. Artest lays down on scorer's table, and by some accounts puts on a headset to give an interview. A cup of liquid is thrown at him from the crowd. Artest immediately gets up and goes into the crowd. He first attacks a blond guy with glasses (my note: if you watch that again, you'll notice the guy artest first attacks still has a cup in his hand. Might not have been the right guy there, artest) o'neal and jackson jump into the crowd. artest after taking a few swings heads back onto the court. He is met by a fan shouting at him. Artest takes a swing and misses. O'Neal comes flying in (literally) and sucker punches the guy right on the jaw. (o'neal was rushing in so fast he falls throwing the punch.) Somewhere in the scrum with O'Neal, a chair is thrown into the scrum, hitting alot of people.
They finally get the pacers off the court, but they are douced with liquid and food the entire way off the court. O'neal was seen still trying to fight with anyone as he is led off.
Steve
Devilmaster waits for the 'Detroit is a cesspool' comments from out of town writers. :rolleyes:
Steve
Then don't look @ poll on ESPN.com....majority of the voters blame Detroit fans. :shakehead
-Kevin
yes.
Soooo...
commit flagrant foul, good
drink thrown at you, not good
Not surprising, considering what passes for NBA talent these days when you give glorified street-ballers a multi-million dollar contract and a uni.
devilmaster
11-20-04, 04:40 PM
Then don't look @ poll on ESPN.com....majority of the voters blame Detroit fans. :shakehead
-Kevin
saw it last night. Checked out alot of the forums for espn and indyscar.
Am i excusing those fans? Nope. Hope most get recognized and given major fines, jail time and get banned from going to piston games. Which is no different than what the players will be getting.
But lets be honest here. If artest walks off the court after getting hit by a drink and doesn't run into the crowd, there isn't a brawl, and we wouldn't be talking here. And that is the crux of this debate. If artest turns the other cheek, he would be playing in the next game. So would O'neal and Jackson. Wallace would have gotten a suspension anyways for his shove.
So now, instead of taking the high road and celebrating the win against a rival on the road, Artest causes Indy to lose 3 good players, and decimates his team (that's already missing Reggie Miller due to injury) for the next little while.
Steve
oddlycalm
11-20-04, 04:53 PM
the fact that he's 200 pounds and a very lean muscular beast I absolutely agree with your point, but you understated it considerably. It's hard to get your mind around, but even a skinny stick man that's 6'9" in game shape is going to weigh a lot more than 200lbs, and there aren't many 6'2" stick men in the NBA.
The only NBA players I've known personally were Wayne Cooper and Michael Thompson, who used to work out at the same gym I did. Coop played at 285 and Michael at 265, and neither was considered a "big guy" in the league. Coop did a lot of weight lifting, and his upper arms were quite literally the size of my thighs, and I started at tackle on our Arizona state championship football team in high school. I was the last guy anyone would refer to as puny, but next to these guys I was a wimpy midget.
oc
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/iamhorn/owned.jpg
look at the look on that guy's face, "oh **** i'm about to get POUNDED"
both benches in the USC-Clemson game cleared, fist fights breaking out all over the field, police and coaches ttrying to break it up, this weekend is greatness :rolleyes:
Coop played at 285 and Michael at 265 :eek: :eek: holy ****!!!
Roy Williams is 6'4" 225'ish, Vince Young 6'5" 225'ish, and that would amaze me considering their athleticism.
devilmaster
11-20-04, 05:13 PM
Looking around for more reports and such, I found Yahoo.com's Dan Wetzel saw it pretty much the same way i did.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYTg2ZTBwBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=dw-artestnotouching111904&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/iamhorn/owned.jpg
To make matters worse in this case, no camera angle or eyewitness account I am aware of suggests that the fan Artest got a hold of – the guy in the black shirt – threw the beer.
That guy seems way too far away to even make the throw. ESPN's Jim Gray reported it was the fan with the white hat, which seems plausible since he later punched Artest from behind. And if you watch closely, the moment Artest grabs the guy in the black shirt, it is clear the fan is holding his drink in his left hand.
.....Know this: When the video is played in the calm of a courtroom, Artest had better hope the guy in the black shirt was double fisting or he is cooked.
Steve
Ed_Severson
11-20-04, 05:25 PM
A few points to consider for those of you bleating upon your soapboxes about how the Pacers were out of line last night ...
1) Artest's foul on Ben Wallace was not called a flagrant foul. That is an absolute lie.
2) If Ben Wallace walks away, nothing else happens.
3) Freddie Jones was attacked by several Detroit "fans", including one with Pistons credentials.
4) Jermaine O'Neal did not venture into the stands, but rather stayed on the floor and had a chair thrown at him.
5) The fat little dumbass that ran his face into Jermaine O'Neal's fist should not have been on the floor in the first place, and got what he deserved.
The NBA may have rules about whether players can go into the stands to confront people, but until they can write enforceable rules that prevent idiot fans from assaulting players, I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.
Dr. Corkski
11-20-04, 05:35 PM
A few points to consider for those of you bleating upon your soapboxes about how the Pacers were out of line last night ...
1) Artest's foul on Ben Wallace was not called a flagrant foul. That is an absolute lie.
2) If Ben Wallace walks away, nothing else happens.
3) Freddie Jones was attacked by several Detroit "fans", including one with Pistons credentials.
4) Jermaine O'Neal did not venture into the stands, but rather stayed on the floor and had a chair thrown at him.
5) The fat little dumbass that ran his face into Jermaine O'Neal's fist should not have been on the floor in the first place, and got what he deserved.
The NBA may have rules about whether players can go into the stands to confront people, but until they can write enforceable rules that prevent idiot fans from assaulting players, I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.You know Severson has a point when I actually agree with the man. :D
If you plan to incite the players physically, you are more than deserving of a beating.
A few points to consider for those of you bleating upon your soapboxes about how the Pacers were out of line last night ...
1) Artest's foul on Ben Wallace was not called a flagrant foul. That is an absolute lie.
2) If Ben Wallace walks away, nothing else happens.
3) Freddie Jones was attacked by several Detroit "fans", including one with Pistons credentials.
4) Jermaine O'Neal did not venture into the stands, but rather stayed on the floor and had a chair thrown at him.
5) The fat little dumbass that ran his face into Jermaine O'Neal's fist should not have been on the floor in the first place, and got what he deserved.
The NBA may have rules about whether players can go into the stands to confront people, but until they can write enforceable rules that prevent idiot fans from assaulting players, I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.Great post Ed!
:thumbup:
A few points to consider for those of you bleating upon your soapboxes about how the Pacers were out of line last night ...
1) Artest's foul on Ben Wallace was not called a flagrant foul. That is an absolute lie.
2) If Ben Wallace walks away, nothing else happens.
3) Freddie Jones was attacked by several Detroit "fans", including one with Pistons credentials.
4) Jermaine O'Neal did not venture into the stands, but rather stayed on the floor and had a chair thrown at him.
5) The fat little dumbass that ran his face into Jermaine O'Neal's fist should not have been on the floor in the first place, and got what he deserved.
The NBA may have rules about whether players can go into the stands to confront people, but until they can write enforceable rules that prevent idiot fans from assaulting players, I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.
I am with Ed too! If I am in a public place and some dumb fark throws a beer all over me what am I gonna do? :rolleyes:
racer2c
11-20-04, 07:39 PM
"If Ben Wallace walks away, nothing else happens."
And if Artest never did anything in the first place... :rolleyes:
.... The NBA may have rules about whether players can go into the stands to confront people, but until they can write enforceable rules that prevent idiot fans from assaulting players, I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.
I say take it a step further and ban beer sales in this arena for the balance of the year.
Ted
:shakehead
chop456
11-20-04, 08:01 PM
These are thug scumbags who are obviously waiting for any excuse to "keep it real". Artest is a proven nutcase. When someone can explain to me how he was defending himself from some liquid by running into the stands and punching people, I'll listen. He could have, and should have walked away. Anything else is grounds for suspension and if there were any justice, being banned from the league.
Any fans who threw the beer/whatever should be charged will assault and banned from professional sporting events. The fans who were innocent bystanders that were hit will get paid, and deservedly so.
I'd like to know what the imaginary line is over which a fan can't step before they "deserve" to be assaulted. It's convenient for everyone here to blame this on the fans until it's your son, father, or friend who's minding their own business and gets one in the jaw.
chop456
11-20-04, 08:12 PM
Also, did anyone else notice how Jim Grey sounded like he was going to burst into tears at any moment? The arena was long since empty and he's standing there, voice quivering like he'd just witnessed JFK's asassination or something. Calm down, Skippy. :cry:
Dirty Sanchez
11-20-04, 08:19 PM
"You mean to tell me Mr. Artest that you felt you were in danger and needed to defend yourself from serious bodily harm? Mr. Artest you are 6'7" and 246lbs., according to nba.com... could you please describe the nature of the threat that provoked you to use self-defense on the night of Friday November 19, 2004?"
:slamdunk: case :thumbup:
Maybe Johnny Cochran should use the David Richards defense? :gomer:
Ed_Severson
11-20-04, 08:53 PM
And if Artest never did anything in the first place... :rolleyes:
Hard fouls happen in the NBA all the time. Wallace could have chosen to accept it and finish the game. Instead, he went for Artest's throat and refused to leave the floor after the officials ejected him from the game.
No doubt about it -- Ben Wallace overreacted to a commonplace part of the game, and he incited a riot in the aftermath. If you can overlook that, you've got a bigger chip on your shoulder than Wallace did after getting his ass beat by a superior team for two hours.
Dr. Corkski
11-20-04, 09:21 PM
Also, did anyone else notice how Jim Grey sounded like he was going to burst into tears at any moment? The arena was long since empty and he's standing there, voice quivering like he'd just witnessed JFK's asassination or something. Calm down, Skippy. :cry:He probably thought he saw Pete Rose in the crowd.
Michaelhatesfans
11-20-04, 10:22 PM
...I'm all for the players climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them.
How about if you're sitting a few seats away from that fan with your six year old kid when a player starts "climbing the stairs and beating the living **** out of any and all lowlife dickheads who throw objects at them"? When you and your six year old kid get kicked/punched/stepped on during the resulting melee, what works better? Having the guy escorted out by security, or leaving it to a player to come up and sort it out? The players have NO business going into the stands. None. If a fan is out of control, let security handle it. What security can't handle is a riot that a player triggers when he goes into the stands after someone.
Jervis Tetch 1
11-20-04, 10:51 PM
That's just it Michael, security was NOT around to handle anything!
I watched the game and I did not see one security guy, rent-a-cop or real cop around at first to control the crowd. The only cop I saw was an officer ready to spray his mace at Artest and Chuck Person, who was trying to control Ron.
While I don't condone players from any sport going into the stands, those who who incited this deserved to get beaten and the two fools who ventured onto the court deserved the same fate from Ron and Jermaine.
Ed is right on with his post.
If I were walking around the paddocks at a CART event and tossed a beer at say PT while he was in his garage area, I would expect not only him but Gerry Forsythe and the crew to pummel me to a pulp.
If I were to throw a beer at any one of you (Ank, Crap, Dave L, Ed Severson) I would fully expect you guys to retaliate IMMEDIATELY with your fists rather than a lawsuit (although that would probably come later). The fact is, you would be mad enough to want to beat me or whomever throws something at you first and to say otherwise is total crap. I know if someone throws something at me, I'm going after whoever did it (I have an explosive temper for something like that). To say otherwise is total crap on your part or you are a pacifist and I doubt there are any here.
The hell of this all is three of the Pacers marquee players are out for God knows how long and only Ben Wallace is out for the Pistons when he was clearly the instigator. It was a hard foul, but it happens and it wasn't like he was undercut like Kurt Rambis was by Kevin McHale in the NBA Playoffs back in 1984 (I was at that game).
Not to worry Artest haters, he will be suspended, but he will be back and playing. But O'Neill shouldn't be. This will hurt Indiana as now they have only six healthy players left to play. Artest has a target on his back and don't think that others will try something.
To me, Wallace was trying to start something.
Ed_Severson
11-20-04, 10:54 PM
1) I didn't see any six year old gets getting beaten by professional athletes.
2) I'm all for security escorting unruly fans out of the arena. It seems that the Detroit Pistons, however, aren't so wild about that idea, since they had practically no security whatsoever.
Edit, to add a couple points with respect to ^ ...
First, JT is right. While I fully admit that I thought it was great that Artest went after the lousy drunk who decided to pick a fight with him, and also thought it was great that Stephen Jackson pretty much cemented his place as one of the guys on a team he just joined by coming to Artest's aid, both of them absolutely should be suspended. Not because what they did was necessarily wrong, but because the league has a rule against going into the stands, and like it or not, rules are rules.
However, that rule makes it very clear that the court is the players' domain, and anything outside the court is the fans' domain. That rule has to work both ways, and if some tubby bastard comes onto the floor, fists raised and talking **** at one of the players, the players should be free to deal with that in any way they see fit without penalty from the league. Jermaine O'Neal asolutely should not have been suspended -- he was on the court where he was supposed to be. That fan wasn't.
Secondly, Jervis, if you threw a beer at me, I'd probably not take it hard, unless it was some pissy American beer with no flavor. Any of you other nutjobs, though, and the fists would be a-flyin'. :gomer:
In all seriousness, while throwing a cup full of beer at somebody isn't a real serious offense, what idiot in his right mind thinks it's acceptable to treat any person like that? What kind of loser do you have to be to do something like that to make you feel better about yourself?
Michaelhatesfans
11-20-04, 11:20 PM
If I were to throw a beer at any one of you (Ank, Crap, Dave L, Ed Severson) I would fully expect you guys to retaliate IMMEDIATELY with your fists rather than a lawsuit (although that would probably come later). The fact is, you would be mad enough to want to beat me or whomever throws something at you first and to say otherwise is total crap. I know if someone throws something at me, I'm going after whoever did it (I have an explosive temper for something like that). To say otherwise is total crap on your part or you are a pacifist and I doubt there are any here.
Not total crap, but I guess I'm just not as angry as some of you! :p No, I wouldn't come at you fists flying if you tossed a beer at me. There would be an angry "What the **** was that about?!" for sure, but honestly - I haven't been in a fight since sixth grade, and don't see myself jumping into one over some beer being thrown.
Michaelhatesfans
11-20-04, 11:27 PM
1) I didn't see any six year old gets getting beaten by professional athletes.
....that rule makes it very clear that the court is the players' domain, and anything outside the court is the fans' domain. That rule has to work both ways, and if some tubby bastard comes onto the floor, fists raised and talking **** at one of the players, the players should be free to deal with that in any way they see fit without penalty from the league. Jermaine O'Neal asolutely should not have been suspended -- he was on the court where he was supposed to be. That fan wasn't.
Secondly, Jervis, if you threw a beer at me, I'd probably not take it hard, unless it was some pissy American beer with no flavor.
With regard to six year olds, my point was that there easily could have been a six year old kid in the middle of that - I'm not being melodramatic, it's just not uncommon to see kids at NBA games. When that schmuck ran into the crowd, I didn't see him taking time to see who was there, and as has already been suggested, it sounds like he may have gone after the wrong guy to begin with.
I've got mixed feeling about fans being on the floor. If you go to the floor because it's safer than staying in your seat, you don't deserve to get beaten. The guy you're describing didn't look like a refugee, I'll give you that!
But hey - end of arguement, because I don't like to argue with people who have similar tastes in beer to myself. :cool:
Sean O'Gorman
11-21-04, 12:19 AM
If I were to throw a beer at any one of you (Ank, Crap, Dave L, Ed Severson) I would fully expect you guys to retaliate IMMEDIATELY with your fists rather than a lawsuit (although that would probably come later).
I'd probably come to your support if you threw a beer at Ank. :D
Jervis Tetch 1
11-21-04, 12:26 AM
I'd probably come to your support if you threw a beer at Ank. :D :laugh:
Hey, I'd never throw a beer at any of you guys. I'd drink it first then throw the cup. Nevertheless, I would expect whomever I threw it at to hit me or at least push me because of my unruly and stupid behaviour and I would have to pay the consequences.
This is certainly the talk of the town. I did a Google search and newspapers in Istanbul, Beijing and London have it. It also made the news at KNBC and KABC as breaking news stories even BEFORE the sports came on. :eek:
But lets be honest here. If artest walks off the court after getting hit by a drink and doesn't run into the crowd, there isn't a brawl, and we wouldn't be talking here. And that is the crux of this debate. If artest turns the other cheek, he would be playing in the next game. So would O'neal and Jackson. Wallace would have gotten a suspension anyways for his shove.
Talk about turning the other cheek, if Wallace doesn't overreact to a hard foul and go after Artest, no brawl. If Wallace doesn't throw a towel at Artest, no brawl.
Must be something in the air as Clemson and SC gave their version today..... :shakehead
I'd like to know what the imaginary line is over which a fan can't step before they "deserve" to be assaulted. It's convenient for everyone here to blame this on the fans until it's your son, father, or friend who's minding their own business and gets one in the jaw.
IF it was one of my little cousins getting pounded to a pulp, I'd tell them to their face, I ****ing taught you better than that. you don't start something you can't finish, you don't start it unless you have good ****ing reason (like the time I had some 50 year old briton choke me at a wedding after he threatened to choke my little cousin, the groom's family had some serious issues...) and if it's something you'd be ashamed to tell your mother, then handle it on your own
chop456
11-21-04, 08:59 AM
IF it was one of my little cousins getting pounded to a pulp, I'd tell them to their face, I ****ing taught you better than that. you don't start something you can't finish, you don't start it unless you have good ****ing reason (like the time I had some 50 year old briton choke me at a wedding after he threatened to choke my little cousin, the groom's family had some serious issues...) and if it's something you'd be ashamed to tell your mother, then handle it on your own
I think you misunderstood me. The guy Artest went after is NOT the guy who threw the beer, according to the media people. He didn't start anything. Artest just got wild-eyed and out of control, looking for someone to hit. If you were that guy standing there minding your own business, I expect you'd have a differing opinion.
It seems like most people in this thread have confused street justice with the way the world actually works. Next time someone verbally insults you, bumps into your car with a shopping cart or gives you a bad haircut, just beat the hell out of them. I mean, they had it coming, right?
chop456
11-21-04, 09:07 AM
Also, no one seems to have mentioned the comfortable lead the Pacers had at the time that Artest fouled Wallace. That's garbage time. Stand back and let him lay it up. Win the game and go home. He was looking for trouble and he found it. Now, (hopefully) he's ended his career.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 10:37 AM
The guy Artest went after is NOT the guy who threw the beer, according to the media people. He didn't start anything. Artest just got wild-eyed and out of control, looking for someone to hit. If you were that guy standing there minding your own business, I expect you'd have a differing opinion.
He may not have been the guy that threw the beer at Artest, but most definitely was not standing there minding his own business. If you watch the video again, it's pretty clear that he was taunting Artest before Ron got to him. Dumb enough to throw something at a guy that big? Maybe not. Dumb enough to get involved anyway? Definitely.
It seems like most people in this thread have confused street justice with the way the world actually works. Next time someone verbally insults you, bumps into your car with a shopping cart or gives you a bad haircut, just beat the hell out of them. I mean, they had it coming, right?
None of those things amount to intentional physical assault. What happened to Ron Artest does amount to that.
Also, no one seems to have mentioned the comfortable lead the Pacers had at the time that Artest fouled Wallace. That's garbage time.
Nor has anyone mentioned that he had just been fouled hard by Wallace at the other end of the floor, also in garbage time. Ben Wallace went looking for trouble first.
How about this, chop -- just be a man and admit that you hate Ron Artest so badly you can't see straight, and that you couldn't be objective about this if you had to be. Then let it go. What's done is done, and with the exception of Jermaine O'Neal, everybody involved got what they deserved in one way or another, including Ben Wallace and the idiots in the stands that started this mess.
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 10:44 AM
^garbage time post :laugh:
chop456
11-21-04, 10:56 AM
Yeah. I hate Ron Artest. :laugh: My previous knowledge of Ron Artest is that he played for the Bulls for a couple years. Other than that and the times he's gotten himself in the headlines for acting like a moron, I know nothing about him.
Your comments are the worst kind of "homer" blindness. I think you'd have found an excuse for Artest of he'd started pummeling people's grandmothers with folding chairs. Whatever. If I had to pick a Pacers player to hate, it'd be that whiney bitch Reggie Miller. :D
So according to you, the guy "taunting" Artest deserved to get punched. Incredible. :rolleyes:
He may not have been the guy that threw the beer at Artest, but most definitely was not standing there minding his own business. If you watch the video again, it's pretty clear that he was taunting Artest before Ron got to him. Dumb enough to throw something at a guy that big? Maybe not. Dumb enough to get involved anyway? Definitely.
None of those things amount to intentional physical assault. What happened to Ron Artest does amount to that.
Nor has anyone mentioned that he had just been fouled hard by Wallace at the other end of the floor, also in garbage time. Ben Wallace went looking for trouble first.
How about this, chop -- just be a man and admit that you hate Ron Artest so badly you can't see straight, and that you couldn't be objective about this if you had to be. Then let it go. What's done is done, and with the exception of Jermaine O'Neal, everybody involved got what they deserved in one way or another, including Ben Wallace and the idiots in the stands that started this mess.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 11:20 AM
I didn't say that (nor did that man actually even get punched by Artest), but he should have kept his damn mouth shut. At that point, if you're stupid enough to taunt a guy that's been attacked twice by a player and once by a drunken fan, you've got mush for brains anyhow.
Fans have to learn that there are rules for basic decorum, and that buying a ticket does not give you the right to break them. I'll bet that guy thinks twice before he opens his fat yap again.
Mission accomplished, as far as I'm concerned.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 11:23 AM
Your comments are the worst kind of "homer" blindness.
How's that? I've already said that Artest deserves a suspension. At least I'm willing to admit that there's enough blame for everybody to share in it. You seem to want to pin the entire incident on one guy, who was basically assaulted three times before he did anything about it. That's pretty damn incredible restraint.
You just see him as an easy target, so rather than assess the situation fairly, you lay all the blame on Artest and call it a day.
That's no surprise ... there are lots of boneheads in the media that will follow suit.
Railbird
11-21-04, 11:35 AM
Can't wait for the playoffs myself.
Big Ben and Pizzstonies were folding up Friday night before the mele against a Pacer squad racked with injuries.
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 11:46 AM
A hard foul is not assault... pushes and even (in most cases) punches thrown (there were none, btw) between competitors is also not assault. A thrown plastic cup full of liquid is also not assault.
Artest was assaulted exactly zero times.
His buttons got pushed and dude lost it... now its time to get paid :thumbup:
http://www.kerblammo.com/images/bling.jpg
Chop is right, your defense is all homer :gomer:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 12:28 PM
Whatever.
Wallace and the fans wanted a fight. They got what they wanted, and now the world blames it on the guy who was the target. If I was Ron Artest, I'd be pretty damned satisfied with my actions.
Artest will be back, and so will the rest of the team. The 'bird is right -- the playoffs will be real interesting this year (and, really, isn't that the only interesting time of the NBA season anyhow?), because Wallace and the rest of the Pissed-ons will be going nowhere. That will be a joy to watch, regardless of how the Pacers end their own season.
Also, no one seems to have mentioned the comfortable lead the Pacers had at the time that Artest fouled Wallace. That's garbage time. Stand back and let him lay it up. Win the game and go home. He was looking for trouble and he found it. Now, (hopefully) he's ended his career.
You sound like Mike Lupica after OU trounced A&M 77-0, "they ran up the score"
Winston Wolfe
11-21-04, 01:02 PM
Whatever.
Wallace and the fans wanted a fight. They got what they wanted, and now the world blames it on the guy who was the target. If I was Ron Artest, I'd be pretty damned satisfied with my actions.
Artest will be back, and so will the rest of the team. The 'bird is right -- the playoffs will be real interesting this year (and, really, isn't that the only interesting time of the NBA season anyhow?), because Wallace and the rest of the Pissed-ons will be going nowhere. That will be a joy to watch, regardless of how the Pacers end their own season.
Dood, if you think the Pissed-Ons are "going nowhere", you obviously havent watched alot of basketball in the past year or so.... these are pretty much the same WORLD CHAMPION Pistons who beat the "Best of the West", Shaq powered Lakers.
Oh yeah, pretty much ALL of the teams make the NBA playoffs these days, including some of the "sub - .500" teams from the East.... which will probably include your Pace-makers. Almost no one goes "nowhere" in this watered down talent of a league! Pacers will go home before Detroit, any-who...
And finally, you referenced something about the fan who heckled Artest "if you're stupid enough to taunt a guy that's been attacked twice by a player and once by a drunken fan, you've got mush for brains anyhow"....well, no.... you are using your right to free speech. You are the one with mush for brains, and seem to be rallying in defense of the actions of Artest, who has a track record for being, and for making, a complete *** of himself on a number of occasions. Artest should be familiar with many things regarding the NBA policy for going in the stands, along with the substance abuse policy. Any player in a visiting city would have to be HIGH for going into the stands, during a meaningless regular season game, with nothing on the line during "garbage time", hoping to accomplish ANYTHING other than getting his team, himself, and many others hurt, suspended, sued, or anything otherwise.
Maybe they should have administered a random drug test on Artest, and the rest of his "gangsta posse" right after the melee....
Just think of all of those 8-button, hand-made, silk suits that were ruined as the "handlers" were dunked with beers as they led their meal-tickets off the floor....
Sheesh.... :rolleyes:
WDIV-TV in Detroit is reporting today that Ben Wallace of the Pistons and Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal of the Pacers will be suspended for the following number of games:
Ron Artest -- 30 Games
Stephen Jackson -- 20 Games
Jermaine O'Neal -- 20 Games
Ben Wallace -- 5 Games
http://www.wral.com/sports/3937171/detail.html
what happened to the auto suspensions for leaving the bench, david stern seemed to be dead set on doing that to the knicks trying to stop the heat fight back in the late 90's :rolleyes:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 01:51 PM
Dood, if you think the Pissed-Ons are "going nowhere", you obviously havent watched alot of basketball in the past year or so.
Evidently I've been watching more than you.
Central Division
Indiana, 7-3
Cleveland, 6-3
Detroit, 4-4
Milwaukee, 3-4
Chicago, 0-7
They're dead in the water, and the wheels will be coming off long before we get to April or May. Last year doesn't mean a damn thing anymore.
Thanks for personally attacking me for my opinion, by the way. Real classy. :shakehead
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 02:02 PM
I think you should put your money where your mouth is.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 02:10 PM
:rofl:
WTF? Is that supposed to be some sort of a challenge?
:rofl:
The only guy Artest had a green light to go after was Wallace, but he backed off. Takes a big man to punch-out two fans though. :thumbup:
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 02:22 PM
:rofl:
WTF? Is that supposed to be some sort of a challenge?
:rofl:Just asking if you feel like backing up your talk with a little action. People bet on sports all the time. I don't mind taking a fanboy's money. Interested?
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 02:24 PM
People do lots of stupid things all the time. Doesn't mean I'm going to run out and follow 'em.
Sorry dude -- I don't gamble, period. Nice move, though -- if challenging somebody to a monetary contest of chance makes you feel like a big guy, go for it. :thumbup:
If I was Ron Artest, I'd be pretty damned satisfied with my actions.
If you really believe that, I feel sorry for you. Taking the fight into the stands after being hit on the chest with a cup of beverage is real manly. :shakehead Defending those actions is ludicrous. One simply does not take matters into their own hands like that. It's called the law, bud. It's one thing if his life, or his families' life, was in danger, but for a cup of drink? What a man, man!
If Artest gets the harsher of the punishments (IMHO, he should and will), he deserves it, as he's made his own damn bed. Go play in Europe, Artest...rudeness is appreciated there. Artest, etc. will get theirs...charges will be filed and million$ sued for by the fans that were assaulted. I hope Artest enjoys playing for free for a season or two.
-Kevin
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 02:32 PM
Big guy?! :laugh:
Too bad you aren't up for a friendly wager... it might actually give me a reason to follow this pathetic sport for a little while. I'm always surprised when I find people who don't gamble. I've also found that many of those people aren't very good at it though... certainly not saying that about you, ofcourse.
Oh well, thanks for making my Sunday morning a little interesting... :thumbup:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 02:36 PM
If you really believe that, I feel sorry for you.
:rolleyes:
Don't bother -- I don't need your self-righteous pity.
It's not about being a man. I don't understand why nobody else gets that. It's not about chest-thumping or standing up to a physical threat. It's about respect. If somebody disrespects you enough as a human being to taunt and/or throw beer on you because of the color of your uniform, he deserves to get his ass kicked. Whether it's Ron Artest's job to do that is open to debate, and the NBA clearly has a stance on that issue, but I don't begrudge him his actions -- if I was him in that situation, I would have had enough as well.
He restrained himself twice after being challenged to a physical confrontation. The fans couldn't leave well enough alone, and challenged him to another one.
Be careful what you wish for, I suppose.
You can cut this any way you want, but the bottom line is that a few drunken idiots from Detroit showed a complete lack of respect for other people. I don't understand why you're so anxious to dismiss that simply because they're from your city. That is the ultimate in homerism.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 02:41 PM
Too bad you aren't up for a friendly wager.
If we only can agree on one thing, let's make it this -- it would not have been a friendly wager. We aren't friends.
You've wasted enough of my time already. No sense in dragging this out any further ...
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 02:48 PM
dude! :laugh:
No weren't not friends... and I (at least) don't consider you an enemy. But it is possible to have a "friendly" wager between strangers. You're misusing this word just as you misused the word "assault".
Also, I don't consider responding to your posts a waste of my time.
Coldfart
11-21-04, 03:13 PM
If I was Ron Artest, I'd be pretty damned satisfied with my actions.
when Ron Artest is watching his blingbling Rolls and MTVCribs style mansion being auctioned off to pay for the multimillion dollar civil suit hes going to get hit with for attacking the wrong guy, what will you still be damn satisfied?
:gomer:
chop456
11-21-04, 03:16 PM
^ :laugh:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 03:17 PM
It's not my money. I couldn't care less whether Artest loses every penny he has or not. But I'm not going to stand here like a hypocrite full of his own self-righteousness and say he's 100% at fault, because that's just not true.
Coldfart
11-21-04, 03:52 PM
If you watch the video again, it's pretty clear that he was taunting Artest before Ron got to him. Dumb enough to throw something at a guy that big? Maybe not. Dumb enough to get involved anyway? Definitely.
so taunting him was tantamount to getting involved?
this dude's gonna own Ronnie's underwear when its all said and done. all because he was taunting some moron that thought it would be a good idea to attack someone for throwing a beer at him.
sounds pretty smart to me
:thumbup:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 03:57 PM
so taunting him was tantamount to getting involved?
Absolutely. And unless these sorry excuses for fans learn to start treating people with respect, this sort of thing is bound to happen again.
I have no sympathy for anybody who opened his mouth and got beaten to hell as a result. You reap what you sow.
Coldfart
11-21-04, 04:30 PM
Absolutely. And unless these sorry excuses for fans learn to start treating people with respect, this sort of thing is bound to happen again.
I have no sympathy for anybody who opened his mouth and got beaten to hell as a result.
this is pro sports, you're gonna get heckled. if you don't want heckling and want people cheering both teams for great play, better petition the special olympics to start fielding nba-quality teams.
You reap what you sow.
Artest is gonna be reaping garnishment. good thing he was a math major in college, subtraction is gonna come in handy!
:cool:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 04:41 PM
this is pro sports, you're gonna get heckled.
Heckling is one thing. Go to the game, cheer for your team, boo the other team -- great. Demeaning another person? Not so great. It's called sportsmanship. I know it's a foreign concept in some places, Detroit in particular apparently, but it is allowable.
I'm not sure why you find it so enjoyable that people like that get rewarded for their behavior. To each his own, I guess ... :shakehead
Coldfart
11-21-04, 05:04 PM
Demeaning another person? Not so great. It's called sportsmanship.
how was the guy that got attacked (the one who didn't throw the beer) "demeaning" Artest? what was he saying? do you know? did Artest? he could have been hollering "you hate cheese!" for all you know. is being accused of cheese-hating worthy of an assault?
I'm not sure why you find it so enjoyable that people like that get rewarded for their behavior. To each his own, I guess ... :shakehead
i'm not sure why you find it acceptable that an innocent guy got pummeled for hollering at a pro athete. i wonder if your opinion might change if you get attacked at a pacer's game for booing and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. if you do, you were probably being demeaning, right? :gomer:
Railbird
11-21-04, 05:07 PM
Hell I'll be watching the Pacer/Pisstsones playoff matchup at Milwaukee in June.
Ronnie should be back, rapped, rested and ready by then.
The report is that Artest will be suspended for 30 games.
There is absolutely no excuse for going into the stands. There is security in the arena to deal with unruly fans. Point out who did it, and let the authorities take care of it.
There is also no excuse for fans to go onto the court. If a player decks someone who has entered the court (or field, or whatever) - they had it coming. There's no way for the player to know if it is "Morgana the kissing bandit" or the nutjob who stabbed Monica Seles, or the drunken father/son tag team that went after that first base coach a while back.
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 05:20 PM
how was the guy that got attacked (the one who didn't throw the beer) "demeaning" Artest? what was he saying? do you know? did Artest? he could have been hollering "you hate cheese!" for all you know. is being accused of cheese-hating worthy of an assault?
That steaming pile of **** doesn't even merit a response. :shakehead
i'm not sure why you find it acceptable that an innocent guy got pummeled for hollering at a pro athete.
Had he been innocent, I would find it unacceptable. He clearly wasn't.
fourrunner
11-21-04, 06:07 PM
It seems pointless to me to get ourselves all worked up into a lather about the childish doings of two sets of utter morons ... one set being the fans who incited or that hung around for the fight, and the other the players who let themselves get goaded by the Moron Fans...
Both sides are defenseless in this matter ! Some of the Dumbest people I've ever seen !
Now it's just people trying to save face!
Coldfart
11-21-04, 06:25 PM
That steaming pile of **** doesn't even merit a response. :shakehead
because you can't debate it :thumbup:
Had he been innocent, I would find it unacceptable. He clearly wasn't.
clearly wasn't? did you hear what he said or do you just assume Ronnie's actions mean that he mustve been justified? no matter, if you go to any more pacers games this year, you'll be lining that dude's wallet with green. now that's demeaning :laugh:
why are pacers fans so touchy? :gomer:
Railbird
11-21-04, 06:44 PM
sports are all about talented 'tards.
and the fans who watch them
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 06:53 PM
because you can't debate it
Got me there ... it's difficult to debate blatant stupidity for the sake of blatant stupidity.
At some point, engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed man loses its appeal. I'm finished with this.
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 06:55 PM
4 hours later and you're still at it, eh? "Iron Man" Ed Severson. :laugh:
I'll check in again at 9. :thumbup:
Coldfart
11-21-04, 07:02 PM
At some point, engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed man loses its appeal. I'm finished with this.
own3d
:cool:
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 07:10 PM
And now this gem from Ed Severson in Private Message.
"Go **** yourself, eh? The only reason you get involved in discussions like this one is that you're a button pusher -- no better than the drunken slobs in Detroit Friday night."
Ed... dude... I think you should step away from the keyboard for a few hours. If this is all it takes to push your buttons bro, you need to re-evaluate. Now I think its easier to see why you might defend such an outrageous response over something so minor. See ya at 9 ;)
Railbird
11-21-04, 07:17 PM
update (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2004-11-21-brawl-suspensions_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA) for those too involved with stroking their egos to stay current
This just in ...
NEW YORK (AP) — Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday as the NBA came down hard on three members of the Indiana Pacers for fighting with fans when a melee broke out at the end of a game against the Detroit Pistons.
Overall, nine players from the teams were banned for 143 games, including some of the harshest penalties the league ever issued. Artest is the first player to be suspended for nearly an entire season for a fight during a game.
Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace — whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the 5-minute fracas — drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.
Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.
All of the suspensions are without pay.
:thumbup: (but Jackson and Wallace should have got more)
News flash: Artest done for the season. Good riddance!!! He might hafta break open his piggy bank to pay for the lawsuits.....
From ESPN.com:
Ron Artest will not play this year. Stephen Jackson will miss 30 games, Jermaine O'Neal 25, Ben Wallace six and Anthony Johnson five. Four others received one-game suspensions and fines.
-Kevin
update (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2004-11-21-brawl-suspensions_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA) for those too involved with stroking their egos to stay currentJinx! ;)
Geez Kevin, where have you been?
Try to keep up.
;)
Dirty Sanchez
11-21-04, 07:20 PM
Excellent job, commissioner Stern!!!! :thumbup:
Ed_Severson
11-21-04, 07:20 PM
That's an absolute outrage, and pretty much sums up the NBA's attitude towards small market teams: "**** you."
Jermaine O'Neal gets 25 games for staying on the floor? What the hell did Johnson get a suspension for? And where are the penalties for the Pistons franchise, who completely mismanaged that game?
It's bush, and this is exactly why the NBA is getting its ass kicked by the NFL, which enforces its rules fairly.
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