Kinda pissed

[Spicoli]

Firing the Chair/VP, chief steward and the technology director does not qualify as normal offseason cuts, IMO. Companies always feel that they can lay off the office staff/administrative folks and get by without them, they just dump more work on the remaining staff making it harder for them to do a good job. There is a point at which it is impossible to do more with less.

Even though I liked Kniefel personally, he's made some bad/questionable calls so I understand why he's gone. Dykstra- I just don't get it on that one at all, and I'll admit I never paid enough attention to what Clare did or attempted to do to have a guess as to what kind of impact his firing will have.

I just feel bad for the rest of the folks- the ones without high visibility or the high salaries. They're the ones that will really be hurt.

Bingo - we have a winner.

[Spicoli]

[QUOTE=Morethebetter]I'm all confused now. Help me out here Mr. Suddenly Compassionate:

posted 11/29/04 at Champweb.net by Spicoli:

"There is still a bunch of old (and new) dead wood at CCWS. Kevin will clean them out, the hangers-on, and the inefficient and uncreative."

If you knew anything about who was doing what at CCWS, several of these people would be the LAST people you would call inefficient. There's still dead wood there, but again, I won't name names.

I'm not being compassionate. i'm calling out "my opinion" on who was let go and why.

Again, i don;t expect most of you to understand, purely from a lack of information perspective.

[Spicoli]

Dude! Your getting your rocks off over what? I simply said that normal , yes normal seasonal layoffs were paper pushers, truckies, interns and the like. NEVER once did I say , state, write, whatever that they would be the only ones let go. If you take off the beer goggles you'll see that. Where in this ramble do you suppose I am entitled to eat crow? I'm a big boy and can eat a lot if you produce it. :p

BTW in the list of axed employees, I don't see one that can't / won't be replaced. I do not at all feel that it is ok at this time of year to do a thing like this, however multimillionaires usually have "leagal counsel", administators and the like. Dykstra, I'll give ya. Knief clown, don't let the door hit ya should have come years ago. Anyway enough from me you get the point. I'm hungry. :gomer:

You sound like Depender. :gomer: :backpeddle:

[aportinga]

I'm wondering if Dykstra's position won't be filled with someone within Cosworth?

I would wager your are correct on this assumption.

[Morethebetter]

[QUOTE=Morethebetter]I'm all confused now. Help me out here Mr. Suddenly Compassionate:

posted 11/29/04 at Champweb.net by Spicoli:

"There is still a bunch of old (and new) dead wood at CCWS. Kevin will clean them out, the hangers-on, and the inefficient and uncreative."

If you knew anything about who was doing what at CCWS, several of these people would be the LAST people you would call inefficient. There's still dead wood there, but again, I won't name names.

I'm not being compassionate. i'm calling out "my opinion" on who was let go and why.

Again, i don;t expect most of you to understand, purely from a lack of information perspective.


I think I agree more with your first opinion (although I thought it was pretty heartless). So did Paul Tracy in mid-June when he called for Kneifel's head. You can't tell me that the race control job wasn't botched bigtime this season. Very justified firing, not sure what took so long.

I got the impression Clare left on his own, it was a short mention at Mark's site a month ago...

[Spicoli]

I think I agree more with your first opinion (although I thought it was pretty heartless). So did Paul Tracy in mid-June when he called for Kneifel's head. You can't tell me that the race control job wasn't botched bigtime this season. Very justified firing, not sure what took so long.

I got the impression Clare left on his own, it was a short mention at Mark's site a month ago...

Clare was sort of pushed out.

[JLMannin]

Again, i don;t expect most of you to understand, purely from a lack of information perspective.

[horrible Franklin flashback]Please, please, PLEASE don't start talking about jet powered Champcars![/horrible Franklin flashback] :D

[Ankf00]

Dude! Your getting your rocks off over what? I simply said that normal , yes normal seasonal layoffs were paper pushers, truckies, interns and the like. NEVER once did I say , state, write, whatever that they would be the only ones let go. If you take off the beer goggles you'll see that. Where in this ramble do you suppose I am entitled to eat crow? I'm a big boy and can eat a lot if you produce it. :p

BTW in the list of axed employees, I don't see one that can't / won't be replaced. I do not at all feel that it is ok at this time of year to do a thing like this, however multimillionaires usually have "leagal counsel", administators and the like. Dykstra, I'll give ya. Knief clown, don't let the door hit ya should have come years ago. Anyway enough from me you get the point. I'm hungry. :gomer:

just give up one of your gold stars to spicoli and be done with it :gomer: :D

[Jervis Tetch 1]

I'll tell you what surprised me. Gabers getting the axe. She was long and tight with PG as his marketing person for years. I'm sure she'll be back with him though.

But IMO she wasn't up the measure of someone like Adam Saal or Mike Zizzo. Maybe OWR will do the smart thing now and promote Erik Mauk.

[RTKar]

What worries me, is what type of talent are you going to be able to attract considering the state of affairs of the series in general and the apparent vagaries of the guys in charge.

[Ziggy]

I will post this here so no one will read it.

Dont you think that KK is going to bring his own people in? They dont need to know about racing, as the track record of the "experienced" help at Champcar would not be considered Sterling......

I would like to see the odds of PG getting tossed out. I dont think KK and GF will put up with much more of his "insight"

As far as Dykstra goes, who knows? How much was he making? What or who's decision to leave was it? Was he asking for even more... something??? Did he have another offer? What is Bob Dylans phone number????

As far as anyone in marketing goes, how could they do much worse????

[Railbird]

Dont you think that KK is going to bring his own people in?

Yep

Remember, KK hasn't been in charge a full year yet, this deal is still very much a work in progress.

and yeah, I wouldn't be suprised to see PG and his series eased out of the equation.

[RaceGrrl]

I will post this here so no one will read it.



:laugh:

Good points on the other things too, Ziggy. I'm sure KK will want to bring his own people in. I wonder too, what the real story is about PG.

About Dykstra, I wouldn't think that if it was his own idea to leave that he'd have been caught up in the layoffs. Someone in that kind of high-visibility position will typically resign for the sake of appearances, and that didn't happen here. He was summarily dismissed like the rest of them.

And yeah, their marketing was bad. From what we've seen the past couple of years, it was as if there was no marketing department anyway.

[2DB]

PG out of the picture, as far as an "Amigo", would be a good thing, personally speaking. Trans-Am leaving would be a bad thing. I just think that the TA's are a really good fit for the OW weekend, it has a great history, cool engine screams, cars that most fans can recognize and associate with plus the show is usually pretty racy. I'm putting my soap box back in the closet now.


Kelvis

[Ziggy]

I agree Kelvis. I think the biggest problem lies in the marketing of this series.

If the formula of stock appearing auto's works for the sisterhumps, it should also work for TransAm. The cars are super expensive however..... and they are prone to the same cannard as a Champcar on a city street. Cant race

[Turn7]

When they were running Vettes, Mustangs, Cutlass' and Vipers prior to the Jags, Panoz and Mangustos they would bang it up.

When they ran with CART in Houston, Trans Am was by far the best show of the weekend. They would race, pass, drift around the corners and be the absolute highlight of the weekend.

Trans Am can race in the canyons the question is will they now that the costs have skyrocketed.

[Ankf00]

when the race was here in houston, everyone I knew in high school that was going to the race was going for T/A, no one gave 2 ****s about CART, having T/A around had advantages as far as bringing in the kids for possible exposure imo

[jonovision_man]

When they were running Vettes, Mustangs, Cutlass' and Vipers prior to the Jags, Panoz and Mangustos they would bang it up.

When they ran with CART in Houston, Trans Am was by far the best show of the weekend. They would race, pass, drift around the corners and be the absolute highlight of the weekend.

Trans Am can race in the canyons the question is will they now that the costs have skyrocketed.

Agreed... there would be much more of that if there were at least a dozen cars out there! The field was pretty grim.

Geez, Gentilozzi went from last to first in Toronto! If he can pass, anyone can, right? :)

jono

[Dirty Sanchez]

Gentilozzi gets biggie horsepower though ;)

[Wheel-Nut]

When they were running Vettes, Mustangs, Cutlass' and Vipers prior to the Jags, Panoz and Mangustos they would bang it up.

When they ran with CART in Houston, Trans Am was by far the best show of the weekend. They would race, pass, drift around the corners and be the absolute highlight of the weekend.

Trans Am can race in the canyons the question is will they now that the costs have skyrocketed.


Brian Simo tried to take out PG one year at Houston. PG had to pit to get a new wheel. He came all the way through the field to take the win! Yes, T/A was a hell of a show at Houston. :thumbup:

[FCYTravis]

Trans-Am used to run all sorts of street races - unlike Champ Cars, they can bang fenders and slap walls without terminal damage to $1500 wishbones.

Anyone remember the Des Moines Grand Prix? The West Michigan Grand Prix of Grand Rapids? Reno? Minneapolis? :laugh:

SCCA Trans-Am is capable of putting on a hell of a show in the streets. It's a question of having more than 10 cars on the grid, that's all.

Remember the old days when Trans-Am was on ESPN and Scott Sharp had talent? :rofl:

[KLang]

Anyone remember the Des Moines Grand Prix?

My first live race. It inspired me to go to Road America the next year and every year but one since.

Anyone remember the flood at the last Des Moines Grand Prix? :saywhat:

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Anyone remember the Des Moines Grand Prix?

Yep. I went to every one of them.

[Shadow]

I just started into this post this evening (well, make it morning now). I think you are right on Zig.

What I'm not clear on is why some people (well, one person) is so upset?



I will post this here so no one will read it.

Dont you think that KK is going to bring his own people in? They dont need to know about racing, as the track record of the "experienced" help at Champcar would not be considered Sterling......

I would like to see the odds of PG getting tossed out. I dont think KK and GF will put up with much more of his "insight"

As far as Dykstra goes, who knows? How much was he making? What or who's decision to leave was it? Was he asking for even more... something??? Did he have another offer? What is Bob Dylans phone number????

As far as anyone in marketing goes, how could they do much worse????

[racer2c]

I just started into this post this evening (well, make it morning now). I think you are right on Zig.

What I'm not clear on is why some people (well, one person) is so upset?

Good question and I appaud Ziggy's level headed approach to this subject.
Apparently, some are allowed to care, while others aren't.

[L1P1]

I had some inside info on this deal (perhaps even before this thread was started). I knew who, but absolutely nothing about why (and still don't - and certainly won't in the future). I held my tongue.

I apologize to anyone who brought this up before - if I missed it - but, I think one thing that's worthy of note is that the OWRS principals shelled out some serious bucks and took on some serious liabilities in order to save Champ Car. They're likely losing bootfuls of money while they try to get this thing back on track.

My internal jury is still out on whether that track is one I'd like to visit, but the acquisition of Cosworth raises some interesting possibilities. And, IMHO, shows a commitment to Champ Car. If that (or some other as yet unknown plan) means losing some good people - either because of finances or a new alignment - well, so be it.

I can certainly be accused of over-optimism with new leaders (be they CART/OWRS, or people in companies I've worked for). But it seems to me that the key here is to a) Get to the remaining employees and offer them some context, and b) get back to us fans with similar info.

In some sense, I hope this means b) is forthcoming which would mean that a) would've already happened. But without a), there's nothing left to save.

[RTKar]

From Jimmy Vasser in the latest issue of RACER;

"From his perspective as a driver, none is more critical than a race operations group that lost the respect of many of his fellow competitors and,too often, control of the races last season."

(Vasser states)
"I don't think it would be right of me to offer up suggestions since I'm not in the decision making process, " he says, "but I do think changes need to be made. We can make excuses after every race that circumstances were unusual, but there has been a little more...confusion coming out of that operation during races, or in trying to make the right decision. I know it's a difficult job, but it seems like we have more problems with 19 cars than we used to with 28."

[oddlycalm]

From Jimmy Vasser in the latest issue of RACER;
"I know it's a difficult job, but it seems like we have more problems with 19 cars than we used to with 28." Yep, and how many seasons are the drivers, teams and fans supposed to wait? Wally has already been called out of retirement once.

I have no comments on the bulk of the firings because I don't have complete information. When I do, however, I don't plan to share it, and will only allude to it in an obtuse manner. I will also blow off anyone that disagrees with my statements about facts not in evidence... ;)

oc

[FRANKY]

Kalkhoven has bought Cosworth and is investing in the series. He's no Andrew Craig, Joe Heitzler or Chris Pook. He puts his money where his mouth is, or is that money where his heart is.

I wouldn't second guess him if you paid me.

[ferrarigod]

Chris Kneifel Competition Race Director
Lee Dykstra Technology Director

and the list goes on.

how is this good?


I am happy Kneifel is gone. Race control has been messing up for years, and hopefully something will get better and someone can be found that is competent for this job.

Lee Dykstra is a disappointment, I do not like it as he has brought a lot to the series. However I do not know the details.

If it was a firing due to Cosworth taking over his position, or something to that affect, I can understand why he was axed. If he was axed before full retirement or something, I am extremely disappointed.

I don't know if these choices were the best ways to grow the series, but I complained about firing the medical crew last year, and they did a fine job this year.

If you have any additional info I'd love to hear it. I just don't want to condemn people for things I don't know on something that hasn't been made public yet(or ever).

Just wondering Spicoli who you are most worried about. I understand you have insider info, and I take that into account, and I respect those facts, but Kniefel did deserve to be canned, that I am positive about.

The worst time to fire people is before the holidays but many friends have been let go at this time for tax purposes and such for companies. That doesn't make it better, but I do understand how businesses must be run.

If it is a retirement issue or something like that, that will shortchange Lee, I will not be happy with Champ Car.

[coolhand]

Just wondering Spicoli who you are most worried about. I understand you have insider info, and I take that into account, and I respect those facts, but Kniefel did deserve to be canned, that I am positive about.




its kinda transparent