Racing story of the year 05

[Spicoli]

Looking ahead, I have to believe that it won't be anything in NASCAR, F1, or even ChampCar (barring some sort of tragic accident).

How FTG will get 33 cars at Indy (when it looks like he can barely squeeze out 18 for the season) has got to be the biggest story in the year ahead.

I suppose Bahgdad Fred will begin a preachin in the next couple O weeks, about "Quality over Quantity" and CrackForum will blame: The economy, the war, the weather, and of course, ChampCar for not "evolving with the Vision." :gomer: And Depender will, of course, fault "The Broadcast Partner".

Besides loading the back of the grid with Crapwaggen Lites (MIPS), how else will the "33" happen? NASCAR doodles can't cross over and "do the dubble" anymore with the changed start time, and besides maybe Blinkus Maximus crossing over with Yen fundage, how will this year's grid get filled?

I'm thoroughly convinced you'll see the signs of Yoda bolting about the 1st of June...and that is big news as well. Indy won't sell out, the ratings will be all-time lows, but to me, the #1 story throughout the racing world will be FTG's complete failure at his league/series, visualized by a starting grid of 24 cars. Goober the Rice and Rahole the Traitor will be plastered everywhere, in a final attempt to get any remaining mileage out of the whole " 'mericun" thing, but nothing will work.

Hopefully, ___king Tony finally puts down the spoon and faces reality: You are not the man to "get eR done". :shakehead

[racer2c]

I've been waiting and waiting for the triumphant return of Champ Car to the Brickyard. I'll be the happiest man on earth when that happens.
I just can't believe it's been nine years. Nine long years. Unreal.
It's over Tony. Tell your trolls to open the gates.

[FCYTravis]

FTG deserves every single uncomfortable minute of this May as his "preemere leege" lines up ELEVEN ROWS OF TWO AND A HALF.

That's including the Crapwagon Lites.

Couldn't happen to a sorrier bunch.

[RTKar]

I'd like nothing better than to see a short field at the 500, simply to bring the charade to the general publics consciousness and to the main stream sporting worlds as well. There would be nothing better than a Champcar race on the west coast the same day as the 500 if the field is short in Indy. It would bring some focus to Champcar. Can you imagine ESPN's storyline?

But, what I really expect is something like a discount qualifying deal...qualify two, get the third free...cheap shinanigans for a cheapened race.

[FTG]

IMO, the 500 has fallen so far off the radar that nothing that happens there is really a big story anymore.

[Ziggy]

IMO, the 500 has fallen so far off the radar that nothing that happens there is really a big story anymore.

Exactly how the main stream media feels about it as well. When your total attendence for practice is below 20K, it really is a non event.

Which Andrecky car will win?????????? I hope Tony or Dario, cause they have caused the turnstyles to be greased as they pack in the Salem and Eldora crowds like Pat O'Connor and Jan Opperman :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[pinniped]

As much as I would like to see Tony fail, that isn't the best thing for US open wheeled racing in my opinion. But it may be the only thing.

The best thing would be for someone with the clout to enforce it - perhaps teams/drivers/mfrs/sponsors/ etc combined - to demand Tony step aside entirely. What he has been doing is ruining the sport, regardless of intentions. The more assets he has, the worse his series performs. He is too widely disliked to lead, and more to the point, history has shown that his ideas are not going to lead to any kind of success whatsoever, whether money, ratings, attendance, quality, anything. His presence is negative and counterproductive. Give him a golden parachute, and terminate his group of idiot cronies, that might work...

Perhaps he needs to tank famously for there to be any change. But I honestly don't think that simple complete, utter failure of his series will ever cause him to back off. What I see is that he would simply run another "pro-murrican" stock block shade tree version of the IRL or perhaps even run the silver crown cars in the I500 and for him to continue to ruin open wheel racing and the I500 to the point where no one alive would even remember it being significant.

He is on the way already. A few years ago, a Buick exec was quoted as saying that they have a target market, but that market keeps dying - or words to that effect. That unfortunately is what open wheeled racing is doing...yes a few new fans come along every year, but nowhere like it was 10 years ago. Most champ car fans I know are about my age - meaning that when we were young adults or teens we discovered this great racing and are still fans. Those numbers are decreasing over time and unless Indy has a "Tony-ectomy" the one yearly race which has any significant portion of middle american giving a crap will be forever dead and no longer able to draw new fans to the sport, regardless of who or what is racing there.

If I were Penske, looking at my cigarette money saying bye-bye, I would be really second guessing that decision he made a few years back...

[Winston Wolfe]

The funny thing is.... none of the nominees involve the racing itself :rolleyes:

It is the continuation of the problems caused by the split, and really how much many of us want to see their series fail, because he has cheapened the 500 to a shadow of its former self.
The Racing story of the year should be the announcement of some new engine regulations, specifications, or something.... maybe even that we'll be getting a new chassis manufacturer, or something like a REAL TV contract, or something really, really good for CCWS.
Unfortunately, TG aint going away any time soon, and the .1RL aint either. We'll still be sitting at the keyboards 365 days from today, pecking away the same thing, just one year further away from the split and another year of NAPCAB getting stronger.

Pinniped is right. Until a "mover" or a shaker, or a group of teams, or a manufacturer or (s) stands up and says NO MORE, this division will remain. No one wants to tell TG he is a complete effing MOE-RON, and that he will never succeed at this current pace.
Silver Crowns at Indy in May ? I would not doubt it for a minute, cuz if he thinks that is what will save it, then he'll do it....
I dont think the real mainstream media cares much about OW racing in the states unless there is a tragedy on the track, or save for a few weeks or days in the month of May.... LBGP gets some great local coverage here in SoCal, but once the billboards are down and Shoreline traffic is re-opened, its all back to normal.
Penske, Rahal, Andretti, Fernandez et al, are all sleeping soundly at night, comfortable with their decision to defect to .1RL, because that is where the money was.... as former CART champs \ participants, their actions are downright disgustingm, but as businessmen, they were allegedly the best they could make at the time.
I would really like to see the Racing Story of 2005 be more of a positive story about the successes of CCWS rather than something that involves that complete waste of time, and lucky ***** club member, FTG.
we can still wish for stuff, right ?

[Railbird]

I agree with WW

[Mr. Vengeance]

Give him a golden parachute,

How 'bout some cement shoes instead?

[Spicoli]

The funny thing is.... none of the nominees involve the racing itself :rolleyes:

It is the continuation of the problems caused by the split, and really how much many of us want to see their series fail, because he has cheapened the 500 to a shadow of its former self.
The Racing story of the year should be the announcement of some new engine regulations, specifications, or something.... maybe even that we'll be getting a new chassis manufacturer, or something like a REAL TV contract, or something really, really good for CCWS.
Unfortunately, TG aint going away any time soon, and the .1RL aint either. We'll still be sitting at the keyboards 365 days from today, pecking away the same thing, just one year further away from the split and another year of NAPCAB getting stronger.

Pinniped is right. Until a "mover" or a shaker, or a group of teams, or a manufacturer or (s) stands up and says NO MORE, this division will remain. No one wants to tell TG he is a complete effing MOE-RON, and that he will never succeed at this current pace.
Silver Crowns at Indy in May ? I would not doubt it for a minute, cuz if he thinks that is what will save it, then he'll do it....
I dont think the real mainstream media cares much about OW racing in the states unless there is a tragedy on the track, or save for a few weeks or days in the month of May.... LBGP gets some great local coverage here in SoCal, but once the billboards are down and Shoreline traffic is re-opened, its all back to normal.
Penske, Rahal, Andretti, Fernandez et al, are all sleeping soundly at night, comfortable with their decision to defect to .1RL, because that is where the money was.... as former CART champs \ participants, their actions are downright disgustingm, but as businessmen, they were allegedly the best they could make at the time.
I would really like to see the Racing Story of 2005 be more of a positive story about the successes of CCWS rather than something that involves that complete waste of time, and lucky ***** club member, FTG.
we can still wish for stuff, right ?


Well, what you would like, and what you will get are 2 different things. Mario double back flipping in a crapwaggen and NO SELLOUT and "33 is just a number" were by far the biggest stories in recent memory.

no one cars much anymore about Goober the Rice and his i500 win, nor do they care about Kanana and his series win. Bourdais is a food or a wine to most people, and DeFerry is a Brazillionaire with Yen fundage. The Monster Garage and OCC set can relate to Paul "Bad As I Wanna Be" Tracy, but that's about all there is, stateside.

New chassis regs, new engine builders, new motor specs are all cool to guys like you and me, but the story will be what is played on .3SPN and Headline News and local TV Sportscasts. I assert the story will be "No 33 at Indy". Think of the cost of a "competitive" engine package - 3mill? 5mill? maybe 7mill? Who is gonna sack up for that cash when all the factory teams get the good stuff? :shakehead 5 mill to run DFL? Is FTG gonna pony up 5mill for 10-15 cars to fill out the field? That's what it will take, and thats 50million bucks. Maybe he is that rich and that dumb, but I'm saying that it won't happen

How far TG needs to fall is up for debate. But the rumored Bridgestone/Firestone Peace Talks failed because FTG's boy was sent to the hangar with "It's the FTGway or the Highway" mantra, and thank God KK had the sense not to bite. Who do you suggest has the power and ability to exert such a mandate?

You say FTG ain't goin away anytime soon? Take out the Yen, and what do you have? Maybe Panther or D&R survive, and of course Sammich always lands on his feet with FTG around. All the original "early adapters" are gone. They sold their crap and headed out a different door.

Plenty of people are pizzed at TG, this thing will break soon.

[Jag_Warrior]

Great post, pinniped! :thumbup:

[RTKar]

As much as I would like to see Tony fail, that isn't the best thing for US open wheeled racing in my opinion. But it may be the only thing.

The only thing the mainstream media and public really knows of racing anymore is NASCAR and "something" about the 500 in May...two North American open wheel racing series cannot grow to prominence simultaneously,there isn't enough sponsorship to go around. Until tg fails, open wheel racing will suffer. The sport has to be made attractive to sponsors, because of the current divisiveness, it no longer is.

[Hot Rod Otis]

IMO, the 500 has fallen so far off the radar that nothing that happens there is really a big story anymore.

Exactly. If TG doesn't scrape together 33 starters next May, or if Toyota bolts, it'll be big news in the IndyStar and a hot topic among a couple of hundred internet message board jockeys like us. But other than that....it'll be no big deal, a non-story. The 500 has virtually disappeared from the national sports radar screen. Last year on the evening ESPN Sportscenter, it took them 45 minutes to get around to mentioning the 500. And when they did it was only for maybe 45 seconds, a couple of generic Buddy Rice shots, a mention that Letterman was his team co-owner , and a brief flash of the top 5 on the bottom of the screen and that was it. In fact in most stories I read last year, David Letterman's name got mentioned as much as or even more than Buddy Rice's. :laugh: I think the 2 biggest stories @ Indy last year were Mario's aerobatics and David Letterman winning the Indy 500. Pretty sad when you really sit down and think about it. :shakehead

[Rogue Leader]

The question is, if the field is short will Mikey A throw himself in as a one off?

TG is F'ing stupid to push the start time later and push out the chance of Crash Gordon joining the show (or anyone else crazy enough to try both).... 33 really will be just a number this year.

[Railbird]

If only Spicoli had an original thought (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48573&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

[pinniped]

The only thing the mainstream media and public really knows of racing anymore is NASCAR and "something" about the 500 in May...two North American open wheel racing series cannot grow to prominence simultaneously,there isn't enough sponsorship to go around. Until tg fails, open wheel racing will suffer. The sport has to be made attractive to sponsors, because of the current diviseness, it no longer is.

You'll have to forgive me for not stating that better ;) ...but if you read that sentence in context I am sure you'll see that a kind of failure for TG is just what I have suggested...however not a failure of the I500...I'd rather see Indy have a tonyectomy, and return to real racing, than to further slide off the radar...cheers

[Spicoli]

If only Spicoli had an original thought (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48573&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)


:gomer: :rolleyes:

You like hangin with those goobers?

[Railbird]

If I didn't enjoy hangin with Goobers why would I drink with you?

Back on topic

Funny how the IRL car counts have dwindled as more and more manufacture bucks come into the series. Even with the Chevworth swaparoo the privateers have folded in droves.

[oddlycalm]

Funny how the IRL car counts have dwindled as more and more manufacture bucks come into the series. Even with the Chevworth swaparoo the privateers have folded in droves. You're are a lot closer to it than I am 'bird. I can't even name half the teams in the idiot circus because I simply don't pay much attention to it, but it's not clear to me whether or not they would have folded regardless. At this point that series hangs by the thread of engine supplier handouts and those not getting any of that money seem to have few means of support. My uninformed guess is that without the Japanese engine suppliers all but a couple of the teams would be sucking fumes about now.

oc

[DjDrOmusic]

.... CrackForum will blame: The economy, the war, the weather, and of course, ChampCar for not "evolving with the Vision." :gomer: And Depender will, of course, fault "The Broadcast Partner".

C'mon Spicoli, you're selling yourself short, you know YOU'LL get some of the blame!! :D ;) :thumbup:

[Racewriter]

Exactly. If TG doesn't scrape together 33 starters next May, or if Toyota bolts, it'll be big news in the IndyStar and a hot topic among a couple of hundred internet message board jockeys like us. But other than that....it'll be no big deal, a non-story. The 500 has virtually disappeared from the national sports radar screen. Last year on the evening ESPN Sportscenter, it took them 45 minutes to get around to mentioning the 500. And when they did it was only for maybe 45 seconds, a couple of generic Buddy Rice shots, a mention that Letterman was his team co-owner , and a brief flash of the top 5 on the bottom of the screen and that was it. In fact in most stories I read last year, David Letterman's name got mentioned as much as or even more than Buddy Rice's. :laugh: I think the 2 biggest stories @ Indy last year were Mario's aerobatics and David Letterman winning the Indy 500. Pretty sad when you really sit down and think about it. :shakehead

Correct, except for one minor point:

The biggest story at Indy last year (Mario's flight was 2003) was Tony Stewart's little joke on Bump Day. Even the race didn't get that kind of coverage.

[Railbird]

Tony Stewart's little joke on Bump Day

Classic wasn't it?

Draging Stewart out of a turn two suite and spending about 10 bucks on graphics became the biggest story of the month.

[racer2c]

Classic wasn't it?

Draging Stewart out of a turn two suite and spending about 10 bucks on graphics became the biggest story of the month.

Proves they are willing to sink to any level.

[RTKar]

You'll have to forgive me for not stating that better ;) ...but if you read that sentence in context I am sure you'll see that a kind of failure for TG is just what I have suggested...however not a failure of the I500...I'd rather see Indy have a tonyectomy, and return to real racing, than to further slide off the radar...cheers

I think we all know the boy has to go...leaving one series in the end, run with Champcar specs, with a race at Indy preferrably.

[fourrunner]

Best thread of the off season so far!!!

Kind of reminds me of the old days in the Forums !!

I love to think positive .... but Why can't we have BOTH the upsurge of CCWS AND the utter Failure of the IRL !

And tell me IS THERE ONE LUCID MEMBER of the Hulman Family that respects the Money they have, and has any power to prevent Tony from wasting it!
Is Tony's mom that lost in the haze of 100 proof to be totally out of touch

I'm betting the amount consumed by Tony for the IRL equals the new figures being presented by the United States as "Aid" for the Tsunami Victims ... and obviously that Aid will prove more profitable than the Crap Tony has left!

[pinniped]

Further to this thread, just who is it who decides/bequeaths/appoints one to be president of IMS...is it the Hulman/Goerge family, the Easter Bunny, the Board, who? Just curious....

[gjc2]

And tell me IS THERE ONE LUCID MEMBER of the Hulman Family that respects the Money they have, and has any power to prevent Tony from wasting it!
Is Tony's mom that lost in the haze of 100 proof to be totally out of touch


I have been wondering about that for years. Doesn't there accountant or there bankers remind them of what the IRL has cost so far? How much has Toyota and Honda given them? I think that the inmates are running the asylum.

George

[mueber]

I don't care.

[Andrew Longman]

I read in Zanardi's memoir that as a kid he built a model of IMS. How many 10 year old Italian kids build models of IMS today? Or have even heard of it?

Let's face it. The I500 is just about dead. It's still a pretty big deal locally, but it might not even be the biggest event of the year.

Is it the biggest race on the IRL schedule? Certainly. Would it be a nice addition to the CCWS schedule? Sure. But the CCWS is viable (from an event, cost, and business model perspective) without it, or at least more viable than the IRL.

But really, it is just another race to consider on the schedule.

What the I500 needs is to attract drivers from around the globe to the event. Make the costs reasonable so that one-offs are possible. Settle on a spec that puts a premium on driver talent but keeps the cars' exotic scary fast qualities. If necessary, specifically invite certain star drivers (kinda an IROC thing). Run races the rest of the season in diverse locations to bring Indy drivers to the markets. Get that Italian, French, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Australian, etc kid to know who actually runs the 500. Run enough races in NA to brand it a (North) American series.

And yeah, probably get a few Nascar guys to qualify for the big show too. Tony Stewarts show last year showed the PR power these guys have.

But step one is to move TG out of any and all decision making around the sport and kill his pathetic league. Otherwise, this is just wasteful, wishful thinking.

[2DB]

But step one is to move TG out of any and all decision making around the sport and kill his pathetic league. Otherwise, this is just wasteful, wishful thinking.

Andrew,

I agree fully but who is going to do the moving? Obviously his family is going through life with blinders on and are going to do zilch!!! Plus the, "wasteful, wishful", part is impossible to recognize when you have completely surrounded yourself with Yesmen! He has ripped this sport to shreds, ruined ALL tradition that Anton Hulman built and alienated more major sponsors, as evidenced during the past nine years, than anyone could ever rebuild!
I'm still having a hard time facing up to the fact that Tony, singlehandedly, destroyed this sport I truly did enjoy from a very very early age.
What a ****ing SHAMELESS, EGOTISTICAL act!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Kelvis

[Andrew Longman]

I agree fully but who is going to do the moving?

The fans

Their eyeballs pay all the bills. All of them. They make any workable business model workable.

If too few fans take too little interest he can't even run go karts around the brickyard.

Well, its getting close.

TG's split and the business model he co-opted from CART already drove away MB, Chevy (twice), Ford (who long complained that prior to the current arrangement with CCWS they were not seeing sufficient ROI) and Goodyear. Now Toyota is complaining. Sponsors from FedEx to Pep Boys to Kmart to Conseco have left for more profitable grounds. Half the field can't afford the bills and CCWS is the only series attracting new teams.

Rational people will make rational choices. They will go where the business model makes sense. Roger Penske HAS to be thinking about returning to Champcar. Even Ganassi has to be thinking about it, or at least throwing his whole lot into NASCAR. MA will be thinking about it as soon as there is no one left on the grid to race against with all that Honda money.

It is clear now that one race and one track does not make a series under any reasonable business model. Not for 18 cars let alone 33 (or 43). At some point to put any show on at all TG has to go out and beg for cars and when he does it will not be on his terms. It will be CCWS saying they will sanction the race using their specs and their rules and their business model. And if Honda still wants to give AGR all that cash so be it, but they will have no where to run them, but I doubt it will come to that.

Either that of he goes to NASCAR and tells him he is willing to make the I500 a NASCAR event :thumdown: So much for tradition.

[fourrunner]

The fans

Their eyeballs pay all the bills. All of them. They make any workable business model workable.

If too few fans take too little interest he can't even run go karts around the brickyard.

Well, its getting close.

TG's split and the business model he co-opted from CART already drove away MB, Chevy (twice), Ford (who long complained that prior to the current arrangement with CCWS they were not seeing sufficient ROI) and Goodyear. Now Toyota is complaining. Sponsors from FedEx to Pep Boys to Kmart to Conseco have left for more profitable grounds. Half the field can't afford the bills and CCWS is the only series attracting new teams.

Rational people will make rational choices. They will go where the business model makes sense. Roger Penske HAS to be thinking about returning to Champcar. Even Ganassi has to be thinking about it, or at least throwing his whole lot into NASCAR. MA will be thinking about it as soon as there is no one left on the grid to race against with all that Honda money.

It is clear now that one race and one track does not make a series under any reasonable business model. Not for 18 cars let alone 33 (or 43). At some point to put any show on at all TG has to go out and beg for cars and when he does it will not be on his terms. It will be CCWS saying they will sanction the race using their specs and their rules and their business model. And if Honda still wants to give AGR all that cash so be it, but they will have no where to run them, but I doubt it will come to that.

Either that of he goes to NASCAR and tells him he is willing to make the I500 a NASCAR event :thumdown: So much for tradition.


Feel Good Post of the year!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

However I'm seeing where the "retarded Andretti" is thinking Marco will be ready for the IRL in 2007 !!

Why does he Hate Marco so much, is my question?

[JLMannin]

I've been waiting and waiting for the triumphant return of Champ Car to the Brickyard. I'll be the happiest man on earth when that happens.
I just can't believe it's been nine years. Nine long years. Unreal.
It's over Tony. Tell your trolls to open the gates.

I may be a bitter person, but I would rather see weeds return to the speedway before Champcars do.

[Andrew Longman]

I may be a bitter person, but I would rather see weeds return to the speedway before Champcars do.

What's the better reminder to TG that he is an idiot?

a) a padlocked Speedway

b) a successful return of a successful Champcar series to the brickyard run completely outside of his control and for which he has to pay a sanction fee and decent prize money.

Hmmm

[Spicoli]

What's the better reminder to TG that he is an idiot?

a) a padlocked Speedway

b) a successful return of a successful Champcar series to the brickyard run completely outside of his control and for which he has to pay a sanction fee and decent prize money.

Hmmm

As much as I hate the guy (really, no joke! ;) )He or whoever is in charge of the facility has done a tremendous job with IMS as a circuit. Whether you like the layout or not, you must agree it pretty nice, from an amenities and comfort point of view. And well it should be.

But all that gets negated by ___king Tony's wishes to be the end-all of OW in NA. His failed attempt at a league/series gives testimony to that. The facility gets better, and yet the plac e decreases in prominence, TV ratings, seats sold, and overall interest? You know what's going on. All signs point to FDTG steppin down.

I would not have a problem with him as landlord, but keep him chained up to that stoopid scooter thing, mint julep in hand, spoon in pocket, and all is OK with me.


But how this gets accomplished, if even Al Speyer and the Firestone/Bridgestone $$$ couldn' get it done, is a mystery. Who has the leverage? Seriously, you all think a coalition of Penske, Gana$$ty, etc would bring it about? I mean, ifd Yoda is bailing, and Homoco is stayiong because of their success, neither of them could care about FTG stepping aside. Tobacco $$$ is toast...tires? fuel?? other manufacturers??

: I haven't a clue :


time to end this miserable dream. :shakehead

[Andrew Longman]

I would not have a problem with him as landlord, but keep him chained up to that stoopid scooter thing, mint julep in hand, spoon in pocket, and all is OK with me.

Absolutely. He legitamately inherited the place and he's done a nice job ungrading the infrastructure.

He did not inherit the right to lead OW racing and he has completely screwed it up thinking that he, not the fans, was in charge. That must change

While the logic of Penske, Firestone and others did not prevail with TG and TG burned enough bridges that no decent person on the CCWS side will ever trust him, I am more optimistic than you. I think that once enough sponsor and manufacturer money bleeds out of the IRL and as costs go up he will not have cars to stage a race. Look how quickly that killed CART. Once tobacco and Toyota money goes why would Penske stay? Without Toyota money would Ganassi be there? How many more teams would Honda want to take on? They already are balking at keeping AF afloat at current levels.

I'm not saying the RP, CG or AF would come back to a lower cost, more viable CCWS. They may just focus on NASCAR. But staying in the IRL makes no sense, in which case TG will be looking for cars just to meet his race contracts

[sundaydriver2]

Penski, Fatassi, Rathole et al will follow the money. That money is going to Grand Sham and Nascab. That's where those guys will end up. WTF happens to the Idiotgrandson's Little League of Racing is anybodys' guess.

I think that the Indy 497 not having 33 will be a big story and will be the final breath for the Earl. The causual fan will lose interest and that's the bread and butter ticket buyer for that race. I think at that point, the big ****ing Retard will either be in Rehab forever or knocked off by his siblings. :gomer:

[Spicoli]

Absolutely. He legitamately inherited the place and he's done a nice job ungrading the infrastructure.

He did not inherit the right to lead OW racing and he has completely screwed it up thinking that he, not the fans, was in charge. That must change

While the logic of Penske, Firestone and others did not prevail with TG and TG burned enough bridges that no decent person on the CCWS side will ever trust him, I am more optimistic than you. I think that once enough sponsor and manufacturer money bleeds out of the IRL and as costs go up he will not have cars to stage a race. Look how quickly that killed CART. Once tobacco and Toyota money goes why would Penske stay? Without Toyota money would Ganassi be there? How many more teams would Honda want to take on? They already are balking at keeping AF afloat at current levels.

I'm not saying the RP, CG or AF would come back to a lower cost, more viable CCWS. They may just focus on NASCAR. But staying in the IRL makes no sense, in which case TG will be looking for cars just to meet his race contracts

I see your point, and raise you this one:

What would prevent him from discarding the current formula and running some (even) crappier spec - ultra low budget, 5 race series (could even be "Silver Crown - ish", just to "keep the dream alive." :rolleyes:

We've seen that Weasel do everything in his power to control, or attempt to control, all that is OW. Hell, he even turned his back on the gomers with this latest "Vision 9.1.2b" (The Yen Era). I don't think he has a concious at all! He's a lonely pathetic loser that only has any significance by stirring the pot, and screwing with the sport. The majority of race fans think he is: a) a complete dysfunctional moron b) a dirty spiteful screwup cokefiend or c) an irrelevant puppet.

Let's face it, as long as he can keep the series/league afloat, no matter how many of his resources he needs to blow, he'll do it. He's delusional and everyone knows it, even his yesmen. There are plenty of unemployed race professionals out there that once TG opens the checkbook, they'd pounce on it.

I'm not sure that Yen and Pimpske and Ganassty and Rahole and all those other grubbers leaving will force him to close up shop. I was thinking more of someone coming in and making it a deal he couldn't refuse. I suppose there's none. I wonder how empty the stands will be this year in May.

And I wonder when the Nascar set is going to finally get bored to death with the Brickyard and stop buying those tix as well.

[Andrew Longman]

I see your point, and raise you this one:

What would prevent him from discarding the current formula and running some (even) crappier spec - ultra low budget, 5 race series (could even be "Silver Crown - ish", just to "keep the dream alive." :rolleyes:

...I was thinking more of someone coming in and making it a deal he couldn't refuse. I suppose there's none...

...And I wonder when the Nascar set is going to finally get bored to death with the Brickyard and stop buying those tix as well.

If he runs silver crown or anything that doesn't look remotely like a modern formula car, or that runs below 200 mph the last remaining fools won't be fooled any more. No one will watch that. TV won't carry it. Stands will be empty. He'll get more publicity than he ever got, but all of it pointing to his incompetence.

The Frances are the only people with the interest and bucks to simply buy him out. Others, including Penske, have the money but not the interest ( I think).

If he simply can't bring himself to capitulate and accept CCWS on their terms (which is the only way they'd do it) then the only other show that could fill the place in May is NASCAR. Pride could make him capitulate to the Frances easier than CCWS, but it really wouldn't be in his best interest.

[Spicoli]

If he runs silver crown or anything that doesn't look remotely like a modern formula car, or that runs below 200 mph the last remaining fools won't be fooled any more. No one will watch that. TV won't carry it. Stands will be empty. He'll get more publicity than he ever got, but all of it pointing to his incompetence.

The Frances are the only people with the interest and bucks to simply buy him out. Others, including Penske, have the money but not the interest ( I think).

If he simply can bring himself to capitulate and accept CCWS on their terms (which is the only way they'd do it) then the only other show that could fill the place in May is NASCAR. Pride could make him capitulate to the Frances easier than CCWS, but it really wouldn't be in his best interest.

If you would have told me 10 years ago we were having a conversation on this topic, I would have thought you were on crack. Unfortunately, this is the reality, thanks to FTG.... :( :(

[FTG]

It'll be an ISC track. The Frances will keep the IRL alive, just to tick us off and because once they own the Brickyard they can sell beer to any gomer who still bothers turning up for the 500. NASCAR Indy Division will be less popular than the trucks, but more popular than Grand Am.

[Sean O'Gorman]

The Frances will keep the IRL alive, just to tick us off

How'd you find the double secret mission statement for ISC!?

Something tells me that a successful motorsports entity such as ISC has more important things to worry about than Champ Car.

[FTG]

Yep. Just like a successful company like Microsoft never worries about small competitors. Aren't you supposed to be studying marketing or something?

[Racewriter]

It'll be an ISC track. The Frances will keep the IRL alive, just to tick us off and because once they own the Brickyard they can sell beer to any gomer who still bothers turning up for the 500. NASCAR Indy Division will be less popular than the trucks, but more popular than Grand Am.

Let's see how many ISC tracks have IRL races by 2007.

I'm predicting that the number will be less than it is now.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Yep. Just like a successful company like Microsoft never worries about small competitors. Aren't you supposed to be studying marketing or something?

Microsoft also didn't get where they are by worrying about small incompetant companies that are clearly no threat to their business.

[pchall]

How'd you find the double secret mission statement for ISC!?

Something tells me that a successful motorsports entity such as ISC has more important things to worry about than Champ Car.

ISC does seem to taken the trouble to run Champcar and its progenitor series out of a lot of ISC tracks. Why would a successful business run of established races in favor of ever dwindling crowds and declining tv interest unless they just aren't willing to accept that other series can have a slice of the motorsports entertainment dollar and peso in North America?

[pchall]

Microsoft also didn't get where they are by worrying about small incompetant companies that are clearly no threat to their business.

Then why have they been in trouble on anti-trust issues in the US and the EU for anti-competitive practices as they've tried to make it next to impossible for non-Microsoft applications to exist on the Windows desktop?

[pinniped]

Microsoft also didn't get where they are by worrying about small incompetant companies that are clearly no threat to their business.

You mis-spelled incompetent. :gomer:

[FTG]

Microsoft also didn't get where they are by worrying about small incompetant companies that are clearly no threat to their business.

Submit this thesis to your marketing professor. Let me know what he or she says.

[FTG]

Why do you think that Champ Car is "incompetant?"

[Sean O'Gorman]

Because at the rate they are going they'll never be more than an ultra-niche series with only a couple hundred thousand hardcore fans, a schedule full of money-losing subsidized races, a roster of subsidized teams and ride buyers, no meaningful ladder system, no manufacturer involvement, no identity, etc.

It is still better than the IRL, but if that is your aim, it sure is pretty low.

[FTG]

So why did ISC boot Champ Car out of all its tracks. Why do the Frances run Grand Am, whem ALMS is in even worse shape than CART? Why did Microsoft give away a browser for free, rather than let Netscape charge for one?

[Sean O'Gorman]

So why did ISC boot Champ Car out of all its tracks. Why do the Frances run Grand Am, whem ALMS is in even worse shape than CART? Why did Microsoft give away a browser for free, rather than let Netscape charge for one?

Maybe CART didn't turn a profit for them? Why wouldn't the Frances run Grand-Am? Don Panoz clearly has no clue how to run a successful series, which is why there will be more Daytona Prototypes alone at every race than the ALMS will see for all four classes for its normal races. Microsoft saw Netscape as a competitor. If I designed a browser today using QBASIC and got it out to a few hundred people, do you think Microsoft would care?

[Spicoli]

Because at the rate they are going they'll never be more than an ultra-niche series with only a couple hundred thousand hardcore fans, a schedule full of money-losing subsidized races, a roster of subsidized teams and ride buyers, no meaningful ladder system, no manufacturer involvement, no identity, etc.

It is still better than the IRL, but if that is your aim, it sure is pretty low.

Ahh, to be young again....

CART is DEAD junior. OWRS is a BRAND NEW entity. Not bad for year 1, and year 2 looks better. FTG at your ankles everyday makes things tough - keep that in mind.

[JLMannin]

I see your point, and raise you this one:

What would prevent him from discarding the current formula and running some (even) crappier spec - ultra low budget, 5 race series (could even be "Silver Crown - ish", just to "keep the dream alive." :rolleyes:

I actually think this will happen. Foyt, Menard, Hemmelgarn, Kelly, Chitwood, McCormick, Tempero, and one or two other vision* teams from the '96 and '97 seasons would be enough cars for such a series. Andretti, Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, and others with indyitis would provide enough feild fillers to get to 33 cars. TG would likely have to guarantee starting positions again in excahnge for wanker teams running the full season.

[FCYTravis]

Hemelgarn will never come back. Ever.

[pinniped]

Hemelgarn will never come back. Ever.

Say it isn't so! :rofl:

[Ozarkian]

I actually think this will happen. Foyt, Menard, Hemmelgarn, Kelly, Chitwood, McCormick, Tempero, and one or two other vision* teams from the '96 and '97 seasons would be enough cars for such a series. Andretti, Ganassi, Penske, Patrick, and others with indyitis would provide enough feild fillers to get to 33 cars. TG would likely have to guarantee starting positions again in excahnge for wanker teams running the full season.

I agree. I don't think Tony's going to give up, and the IRL is going to turn into the proverbial fish on the river bank, flailing away but not dying. At least until the Hulman George family and their lawyers finally walk up and stomp the life out of it.

[Spicoli]

Hemelgarn will never come back. Ever.

What's he gonna bring back? an appetite?
:gomer:

[mueber]

Because at the rate they are going they'll never be more than an ultra-niche series with only a couple hundred thousand hardcore fans, a schedule full of money-losing subsidized races, a roster of subsidized teams and ride buyers, no meaningful ladder system, no manufacturer involvement, no identity, etc.

It is still better than the IRL, but if that is your aim, it sure is pretty low.

Sean:

That's how it is now not how it will be. I have no idea what the future holds, but I am quite sure that auto racing in North America ten years from now will look nothing like what it looks like today.

[FTG]

You may think that refusing to admit that "Maybe the France family does care about racing in North America" makes you look smart, but it doesn't.

They've clearly benefitted from the split. They want it to continue. They opened offices in Canada and Mexico. It's easier for NASCAR to grow in Canada and Mexico if Champ Car isn't around. Now it looks like Jourdain is off to NASCAR.

ISC will buy the Brickyard because they can make more money from the Brickyard than any other company. They will keep the IRL alive, because they know how to run a racing series. They know how to attract sponsors. They will do a better job of running the IRL than Tony ever did.

NASCAR is more than cup. Just because it has never crossed your mind that NASCAR might one day open a new division that does street races, or purchase one from a coke head who is selling it cheap, doesn't mean that the intelligent businessmen running NASCAR haven't considered it.

Anyone who thinks there isn't room for NASCAR to grow, that Champ Car isn't standing in the way of NASCAR growth, or that NASCAR isn't interested in growing doesn't understand the way NASCAR runs its business.

The Hulman/George era is drawing to a close, but the odds of Champ Car getting a free pass when Tony leaves the scene aren't very good.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Sean:

That's how it is now not how it will be. I have no idea what the future holds, but I am quite sure that auto racing in North America ten years from now will look nothing like what it looks like today.

I'm pretty sure that ten years from now, all sporting events will be taken in pill form; the IRL, of course, will be a suppository.

[Ankf00]

heh, you guys are all a buncha dorks, watching cars go around in circles all the time :gomer: who the hell watches racing anyways besides rednecks?


If Oklahoma was a sport, it'd be auto-racing :gomer:
OGorman would be it's chief principal...

[SurfaceUnits]

I wonder how empty the stands will be this year in May.
Let dashley and his fan club clue you in

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/irl/2004/mis/irl-2004-mis-tm-0222.jpg

[Railbird]

Hemelgarn will never come back. Ever.


I wouldn't bet on that.

Not that I think they will but I know for sure they are trying right now. I'd rate their chances as even with the twenty second car in the Champcar field.

[Spicoli]

I wouldn't bet on that.

Not that I think they will but I know for sure they are trying right now. I'd rate their chances as even with the twenty second car in the Champcar field.

Anyone can ask for money. Not everyone's gonna get it.

[4wheeldrifter]

Perhaps an obvious statement but... short of running the cabs in May, I think the damage done to the popularity and notoriety of the race is irreversible. Even with Champcars on the ticket, the 497.5 will never approach what it once was. Tony saw to that. Running the cabs in May might fix that aspect, but that level of heresy might bring on locusts/floods. Then again, I'm surprised we haven't seen the bugs yet.

[Andrew Longman]

Running cabs in May will succeed because NASCAR will make it a success. But they won't do it by TGs rules, they won't spend the month there and it will be just another Cup race on the schedule but a little more special.

The days of running rear engine formula cars for the 500 will become as quaint as running offy powered roadsters.

But it doesn't have to be so...

Run a whole season that promotes the drivers and series around the world, make it attractive and practical for some top drivers (from NASCAR, F1, WRC, former greats, etc) to do the 500 as a one off, and then they'd be on to something. CCWS can do that. IRL cannot.

But time is running out.

[Ozarkian]

Then again, I'm surprised we haven't seen the bugs yet.

There were tornados last May.

Perhaps Tony should be listening ...

[Spicoli]

Running cabs in May will succeed because NASCAR will make it a success. But they won't do it by TGs rules, they won't spend the month there and it will be just another Cup race on the schedule but a little more special.

The days of running rear engine formula cars for the 500 will become as quaint as running offy powered roadsters.

But it doesn't have to be so...

Run a whole season that promotes the drivers and series around the world, make it attractive and practical for some top drivers (from NASCAR, F1, WRC, former greats, etc) to do the 500 as a one off, and then they'd be on to something. CCWS can do that. IRL cannot.

But time is running out.

Exactly. FTG should have left well enough alone.

If crackhead would have left the bidness to the bidnessmen, he would have 300 million more in his pocket, and we would have 70 cars and drivers on bump day. Not to mention a field full of the GREATEST drivers in the world.

Hindsight's a bitch, eh Tonee? :shakehead

[Spicoli]

Originally posted by Defender

This nonsense has come up for the past couple of years around this time. Then every May there are 33 cars in the field.

This year will be no different.

[EVL29]

You know,there's a part of me that beleives that Defender's posts on various forums are all a part of an ultimate 'gomering' of the .1RL-types.

I just can't for the life of me that there is anyone in this Universe that really is that F@&#ing stupid. Just makes my brain ache.

[Spicoli]

You know,there's a part of me that beleives that Defender's posts on various forums are all a part of an ultimate 'gomering' of the .1RL-types.

I just can't for the life of me that there is anyone in this Universe that really is that F@&#ing stupid. Just makes my brain ache.

Oh he's right there for sure. You have to admire that he sticks by his beliefs though.

They're WRONG, but they're HIS, and sticks by them 100%....

I read somewhere he was arguing that the .1RL aTTENDANCE at Fontucky was 60k this year?
:saywhat:

Yep. :shakehead

[SurfaceUnits]

As someone previously said, "There weren't 60,000 teeth at Fontucky this year."

[Spicoli]

Interesting monologue from an Engineer today. Penske.

:eyespeeled:

[pinniped]

Interesting monologue from an Engineer today. Penske.

:eyespeeled:

Please share! :)

I remember a few years ago when champ car and IRL were running at 'tucky. Champ car was completely non-promoted and still drew like 75,000 - which was still way way down on the prior year...IRL drew something like 15,000 and most of those were giveaways from Toyota test drives...

There's no fricken way that in southern cal there are 60,000 people who care enough to sit through that.

[Sean O'Gorman]

As someone previously said, "There weren't 60,000 teeth at Fontucky this year."

To be fair, 100k could be in attendence and that statement would still be true. :D