Race cars for sale

[Sean O'Gorman]

Ok ALMS supporters, put your money where your mouth is, and buy one of these cars:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewItem&category=80766&item=4517659953&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80766&item=4517643202&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80766&item=4517399092&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[devilmaster]

From post 81177


Quote:
Originally Posted by Racewriter
I believe those of us who are in favor of the Grand-Am, as presently constituted, have put forth several objective criteria in support of it.
Its detractors have merely whined, stamped their feet, and tossed insults.


To be fair (and I'll qualify that I really don't care bout GA or ALMS either way), but the threads i've followed in the past year or so, has seen whining, feet stomping, and crap slinging from both viewpoints.

Thanks for continuing to prove my point, Sean.

[racer2c]

Ok ALMS supporters, put your money where your mouth is, and buy one of these cars:

[/url]

When I get back from hunting wolverines in Alaska I'm going to buy all three ok God! What do you think! Jeez!

[Ed_Severson]

What type of gun did you use?

[racer2c]

A 12 gauge, of course!! Geeze i%$t!

[Ed_Severson]

Sweet!

[Ziggy]

I was gonna bid, but have all my cash reserves tied up in Stop Tech Stock


oops, wrong thread..................

[Racewriter]

From post 81177



Thanks for continuing to prove my point, Sean.

Yeah, I'm kinda with DM on this. I like Ebay listings of race cars as much as the next guy, but it could have been worded different.

The LMP2 Nissan/Lola sold.

[Sean O'Gorman]

The point is, if you can't afford to race the cars, you don't have much room to criticize those who are paying to race elsewhere.

Anyway, I don't feel like going down this road again, so I'll drop it.

[pinniped]

Hmmm...if one wanted to be really critical...

That "MG" is rather long in the tooth...and they were ooogly when new! Those pontoon fenders may have started a rather short lived trend in sports car design but they make me want to wretch.

The second one is a Riley and Scott...as in the company that was unable to build a successful crapwagon.

The third one is - get this - a car which seemingly derives its value from a history of racing - in the Grand Am.

[extramundane]

Hmmm...if one wanted to be really critical...

That "MG" is rather long in the tooth...and they were ooogly when new! Those pontoon fenders may have started a rather short lived trend in sports car design but they make me want to wretch.

I think it's a decent enough looking car. The problem is that the tub has been repaired (badly) so many times that the thing's virtually undriveable.


The second one is a Riley and Scott...as in the company that was unable to build a successful crapwagon.

But whose record in sportscars is stellar.


The third one is - get this - a car which seemingly derives its value from a history of racing - in the Grand Am.

Until the advent of the Daytona Protocrapwagon, running GA & ALMS with the same car was fairly commonplace for the prototype teams. The car doesn't have many ALMS laurels because it's been parked most of the time.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Anyway, I don't feel like going down this road again, so I'll drop it.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[FCYTravis]

The R&S MkIII is a stellar LMP900 design - except for the fact that the Audi's even more stellar.

Remember what Dyson did with one...

[cart7]

Damn! I blew all my cash buying the Hemelgarn transporter which I'm still trying to scrap up the money to have flames coming off the car painted on with a re-fueling team added for realism and now this great deal comes along. :mad:

BTW, all the cars are in Dublin, Ohio. Anyone know who this might be? Rayhole clearing out the garage to pay off Debbi or maybe help finance Danica?? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

[pinniped]

Perhaps all the mid ohioans are selling their outdated rolling stock to buy Grand Am cars! :p

[pinniped]

But whose record in sportscars is stellar.





Sure, where the competition is less...

[Methanolandbrats]

The point is, if you can't afford to race the cars, you don't have much room to criticize those who are paying to race elsewhere.

Anyway, I don't feel like going down this road again, so I'll drop it. WTF? I can't afford a Crapwagon either, so by your logic I have to go to an IRL Race ;)

[Skater_36]

[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]The point is, if you can't afford to race the cars, you don't have much room to criticize those who are paying to race elsewhere.

QUOTE]

Have you done a lot of racing?

[extramundane]

Sure, where the competition is less...

R&S pretty much owned the Ferraris, Lolas & Dallaras. It wasn't until the big dollar BMW, Audi, Cadillac & Panoz factory teams arrived that they faltered. And as much criticism as I have for GARRA, they don't exactly have a lack of chassis builders, and the Riley is the one to have.

To suggest that their sportscars faced less competition than their crapwagon is ridiculous.

[pinniped]

R&S pretty much owned the Ferraris, Lolas & Dallaras. It wasn't until the big dollar BMW, Audi, Cadillac & Panoz factory teams arrived that they faltered. And as much criticism as I have for GARRA, they don't exactly have a lack of chassis builders, and the Riley is the one to have.

To suggest that their sportscars faced less competition than their crapwagon is ridiculous.

No, but to suggest their crapwagon was unsuccessful is accurate. :shakehead

[extramundane]

No, but to suggest their crapwagon was unsuccessful is accurate. :shakehead

Very true. I don't think it ever got the level of internal support that the sportscars get.

[Racewriter]

BTW, all the cars are in Dublin, Ohio. Anyone know who this might be? Rayhole clearing out the garage to pay off Debbi or maybe help finance Danica?? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

It's Jon Field, Intersport Racing. Son of Ted Field of Interscope racing (and movies, and records), who fielded cars for Danny Ongais for many years.

Maybe he needs the money for a Daytona Prototype. ;)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Have you done a lot of racing?

I autocross, which I think counts. Look at it this way. If someone told me to leave a competitive stock class because the cars are "pathetic", and told me to move into a high prep class with only 4 competitors, high disparity in equipment, and is too expensive to win in, I'd laugh in their face. I think the same applies to sports car racing.

[RichK]

a high prep class with only 4 competitors, high disparity in equipment, and is too expensive to win in, I'd laugh in their face.

Yet BMW, Toyota, Cosworth, Renault, Honda and Mercedes think it's a great idea! :laugh:

[pinniped]

I autocross, which I think counts. Look at it this way. If someone told me to leave a competitive stock class because the cars are "pathetic", and told me to move into a high prep class with only 4 competitors, high disparity in equipment, and is too expensive to win in, I'd laugh in their face. I think the same applies to sports car racing.

Aww c'mon Sean, we all know that Andy Wallace, Wayne Taylor, Max Papis, Sebastian Bourdais, Paul Tracy, Hurley Haywood, Max Angelelli, etc. are all a bunch of GOMERS! Why, if they had any decency they would picket the place and demand more expensive prototypes and smaller fields. The guys here know better. Heck, they know how to post on the inter-nut! :eek: We should defer to those who post here for all things.

[Skater_36]

I autocross, which I think counts. Look at it this way. If someone told me to leave a competitive stock class because the cars are "pathetic", and told me to move into a high prep class with only 4 competitors, high disparity in equipment, and is too expensive to win in, I'd laugh in their face. I think the same applies to sports car racing.

Autocross, that's nice. How's that working out for you?

You would be right to not leave a class just because someone told you too. I don't really see where you're going with this but nice talking to you.

[racer2c]

Aww c'mon Sean, we all know that Andy Wallace, Wayne Taylor, Max Papis, Sebastian Bourdais, Paul Tracy, Hurley Haywood, Max Angelelli, etc. are all a bunch of GOMERS! Why, if they had any decency they would picket the place and demand more expensive prototypes and smaller fields. The guys here know better. Heck, they know how to post on the inter-nut! :eek: We should defer to those who post here for all things.

I don't recall anyone making the accusations that the drivers were gomers for racing in GA. You're reachin'.

[pinniped]

I've had enough arguing about grand am anyway...if you don't like it, no one forces you to watch...

[extramundane]

It's Jon Field, Intersport Racing. Son of Ted Field of Interscope racing (and movies, and records), who fielded cars for Danny Ongais for many years.

Maybe he needs the money for a Daytona Prototype. ;)

A new Lola B05/40, actually.

[extramundane]

I've had enough arguing about grand am anyway...if you don't like it, no one forces you to watch...

And judging by the live attendance, nobody does.

[Racing Truth]

Look, what gets someone like me is folks who seemingly think the current state of ALMS is no problem, while saying Grand-Am is an abomination. I realize not everyone feels this way, but to those who do, folks like Sean and myself see you as being totally delusional.

And:

"And judging by the live attendance, nobody does."

True, for now. Furthermore its not relevant YET. The fact is, despite lack of attendance, 30+ DP's will be at Daytona. ALMS has five retread LMP1's. You tell me which is healthier.

[Sean O'Gorman]

A new Lola B05/40, actually.

That is an LMP2, right?

[pinniped]

And judging by the live attendance, nobody does.

That's perhaps true...but I think you'd have to go back pretty far to find a big crowd at any sports car race in the US. If I can swing it $-wise, I might go the 24, but that's doubtful anyway due to other commitments. I'll watch what I can on the tube.

As I indicated, it doesn't have the speed or aesthetic appeal of the prototypes (the dps aren't really prototypes, no one is arguing that) but it might be good racing. And unlike the IRL, the driver can make a difference...the gentlemen types aren't the ones that will be vying for the win...anyway, I plan to enjoy it. Suit yourself if you don't.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Autocross, that's nice. How's that working out for you?

It is going just fine. Better to participate for a day than to watch for a lifetime.

[pinniped]

I have to say I am surprised at how mean spirited the posts are here about grand am. It isn't the IRL people. There are people driving in it who hate the IRL. Get it?

[extramundane]

True, for now. Furthermore its not relevant YET. The fact is, despite lack of attendance, 30+ DP's will be at Daytona. ALMS has five retread LMP1's. You tell me which is healthier.

Attendance is always relevant at a professional (or "professional") racing event. Arguing which series is more healthy is rather like arguing whether CCWS or IRL is more healthy: both have big problems as well as benefits.

Having said that, ALMS gets >1 ratings on network TV; Grand Am gets worse ratings on Speed than 'Tuner Transformation.'

[extramundane]

That is an LMP2, right?

It can be P1 or P2 actually. It seems most popular for P2, but add 150kg ballast and a more powerful engine and it's P1 ready.

[extramundane]

That's perhaps true...but I think you'd have to go back pretty far to find a big crowd at any sports car race in the US.

Depends on how you define 'big' I suppose. Just a quick glance at Petit LeMans 2004 pics at the ALMS site shows a pretty large crowd. The running joke is that Sebring test days will draw a bigger crowd than the Daytona 24, and it's likely no joke.


And unlike the IRL, the driver can make a difference...the gentlemen types aren't the ones that will be vying for the win...anyway, I plan to enjoy it. Suit yourself if you don't.

The driver is always going to be a bigger factor in road racing, but there are still a couple of preferred packages (i.e. Lexus Riley, Pontiac Crawford) if you want to do well. The best driver in the world couldn't put a Picchio or Chase on the podium. Then there's the sanctioning body's tinkering. The DPs were so dog-slow and unreliable that GARRA had to restrict the crap out of GT-class 911s to keep them from running away with things over the long haul. Now the GT class has ceased to exist on any tangible level.

NASCAR under a different name smells just the same. :thumdown:

[pinniped]

I am not familiar with any non-spec car series in which there aren't preferred packages that one needs in order to be competitive.

[extramundane]

I have to say I am surprised at how mean spirited the posts are here about grand am. It isn't the IRL people. There are people driving in it who hate the IRL. Get it?

Some of us view GARRA in much the same way we view IRL. They dumbed down the racing, set out to "even the playing field" (when, in fact, the series front runners are spending just as much as the ALMS front runners) and have claimed a long-term vision that's already seen revision (10 years of "rules stability" for DPs, yet "GT" class rules have changed each year for the last 3?).

Then there's the fact that looking at the DPs makes many of us physically ill.

[pinniped]

Some of us view GARRA in much the same way we view IRL. They dumbed down the racing, set out to "even the playing field" (when, in fact, the series front runners are spending just as much as the ALMS front runners) and have claimed a long-term vision that's already seen revision (10 years of "rules stability" for DPs, yet "GT" class rules have changed each year for the last 3?).

Then there's the fact that looking at the DPs makes many of us physically ill.

That all may be true...all forms of racing are somewhat "dumbed down" if you will. Except maybe the initial can am. As for the money involved, if there are sponsors or persons willing to shell it out, who cares? It seems that GA has that and ALMS doesn't. The even playing field thing is present in a lot of forms of racing, including our present one chassis, one engine champ car series (which is also damned expensive and requires mega funding if one is to succeed).

For me the difference is the IRL was created to destroy champ car. GARRC was not. The IRL's leader has said he is out to destroy champ car. GARRC has not said that. Yes, it is a business and they want to succeed as do the persons involved, but so do the leaders of champ car. The IRL is an enemy, the GARRC isn't, especially if they are providing a place for road racers to get paid to drive that isn't the IRL and isn't a direct competitor.

There have been a lot of ugly cars that have raced and won and provided good entertainment over the years. The idea that a bunch of grown men would be squirming at their tv sets because they just can't stand the look of the DPs is pretty laughable, even though in this one little forum it seems to have evolved into a "party line."

[RacinM3]

This Grand Am vs. ALMS horse is dead. It's demised. It's passed on. This horse is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet it's maker. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. It's pushing up the daisies! It's metabolic processes are now history. It's off the twig. It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile.

THIS IS AN EX-HORSE!!

[Rogue Leader]

I think it's a decent enough looking car. The problem is that the tub has been repaired (badly) so many times that the thing's virtually undriveable.


Yeah isnt that the one that was like half red and blue half neon yellow after a hard wreck for a while????

[extramundane]

For me the difference is the IRL was created to destroy champ car. GARRC was not. The IRL's leader has said he is out to destroy champ car. GARRC has not said that.

They haven't said it, but that's the ultimate goal. Not that long ago, GARRA & ALMS had compatible schedules & rules, so a team could run both series with the same equipment fairly easily. Not anymore. GARRA created the entirely new spec of cars. GARRA modified their schedule to force some drivers to choose between series.


Yes, it is a business and they want to succeed as do the persons involved, but so do the leaders of champ car. The IRL is an enemy, the GARRC isn't, especially if they are providing a place for road racers to get paid to drive that isn't the IRL and isn't a direct competitor.

GARRA, ChampCar, ALMS & IRL are all fighting for part of the same pie: the non-NASCAR motorsports market. The France family (save perhaps J.C.) doesn't care about road racing per se; they merely want to make sure nobody else cuts into their action.


The idea that a bunch of grown men would be squirming at their tv sets because they just can't stand the look of the DPs is pretty laughable, even though in this one little forum it seems to have evolved into a "party line."

It's not just "this one little forum." The internet backlash against the DPs is pretty widespread, and the lack of attendance at GARRA races suggests this phenomenon isn't an internet-only thing.

[Skater_36]

It is going just fine. Better to participate for a day than to watch for a lifetime.

So true! I hope one day you will be as lucky as I was to make a living from racing. In the mean time don't discount other peoples opinions because they haven't driven around cones in a parking lot or won national championships in a major series. ;)