Why no involvement in the "ladder" series from Champ Car teams?

[trish]

I was just wondering, why don't Champ Car teams have more involvement in the ladder series as far as fielding teams? Every large team in NASCAR Cup fields a Busch series AND Truck series team. That gives them two vehicles to groom a future cup driver, which is the pinnacle in NASCARland. Maybe the Champ Car ladder system is non-existant because of a lack of a committment to its future by the teams at the top. The ladder should be an indication of what the future holds. But since the teams that can move the drivers up are not invested in it, we get all these young talented drivers who are passed over year after year.

Does anyone think there is anything that can be done to make team owners in Champ Car want to invest in the ladder system by using it to groom future talent? Otherwise, can anyone explain to me what the point of the ladder system is? Because I just don't get it.

edit: Excuse me if I've asked this question before. I sometimes have a really bad (selective) memory and I'm particularly pissed off this morning. :o

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the last Champ Car team to be involved in the Atlantic Series was Sigma Autosport in 2002.

The reasons though were obvious as owner Tom Wieringa's kid Dave was the driver along with Rocky Moran Jr.

That team went the way of the Champ Car team, but the team principals Jim and Pam Griffith still field a team.

[Easy]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[NismoZ]

Well, sure. I'm guessing for the cost of a 2 car ChampCar effort, a team owner could EASILY field a 3 car 'Cup AND a 2 car Busch team, plus a bunch of Legends cars for the youngsters.

[Wabbit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the last Champ Car team to be involved in the Atlantic Series was Sigma Autosport in 2002.

The reasons though were obvious as owner Tom Wieringa's kid Dave was the driver along with Rocky Moran Jr.

That team went the way of the Champ Car team, but the team principals Jim and Pam Griffith still field a team.

Rahal 2003.

[JLMannin]

Well, sure. I'm guessing for the cost of a 2 car ChampCar effort, a team owner could EASILY field a 3 car 'Cup AND a 2 car Busch team, plus a bunch of Legends cars for the youngsters.
I don't think so. A competitive cup effort is likely in the order of 7 to 10 million, on par with a competitive 2-car team in Champcar.

Easy has hit the nail on the head, it's $$$$$$$$$$. Once teams can fill all the sponsor real estate on their cars, finding money for a ladder effort may be a possibility.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Probably because they don't want to get an aspiring driver's hopes up by making him think he'll actually be considered for their Champ Car ride.

[Ziggy]

Bottom line. They dont think long term. They only think about bottom line for the upcoming season. Autoracing is no longer a sport, its a business

[racer2c]

Probably because they don't want to get an aspiring driver's hopes up by making him think he'll actually be considered for their Champ Car ride.

You know, I think it's a real travesty. Realistically no one can just snap their fingers and poof we have a dream ladder system where the champions and runners up always land a Champ Car. But I do think it is vital to have a legit ladder series where at the very least, you can be sure the champion gets a Champ Car ride. I would like to see the new owners put forth a growth plan for Atlantics. I do have to put my IRL hatin' hat on and say that the split and the ISP hasn't helped any in terms of Champ Car ladders.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Thank you, you wascally wabbitt.

[NismoZ]

Speaking of cost...how does getting ONE Lola/Cosworth to the grid, race-ready, compare to putting a NASCAB "stocker" in the same spot? I was just guessing the one was a LOT more expensive than the other?

[trish]

Spending's never been so costly (http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Costs+to+run+NASCAR+Cup+team&tab=Web&ei=UTF-8&u=sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story%3Fid%3D1787613&w=costs+run+nascar+cup+team&d=3F5C897D09&icp=1&.intl=us)


To field a competitive Nextel Cup championship-caliber operation today, car owners can expect to spend between $8 and $15 million per team -- and sometimes more if you count in luxury items such as airplanes, fancy motor homes, etc. -- says Gary Nelson, NASCAR managing director of competition.

[trish]

Well, sure. I'm guessing for the cost of a 2 car ChampCar effort, a team owner could EASILY field a 3 car 'Cup AND a 2 car Busch team, plus a bunch of Legends cars for the youngsters.
What is the cost for a two car Champ Car effort?

[trish]

WITHOUT WINSTON CUP RACERS (http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Costs+to+run+NASCAR+Busch+series+team&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&xargs=0&pstart=1&b=11&u=www.openwheelracing.com/May%25207%2520-FFS-%2520Without%2520WC%2520Racers%2520-%2520Saxton%2520OWR.html&w=costs+run+nascar+busch+series+team&d=48AE4B8CB9&icp=1&.intl=us)


With the cost of fielding a Busch Series team for a full season reaching an estimated $4 million there are a number of teams that do not make all the shows and some who have just disappeared. That $4 million figure could differ based on who you want to talk to in Busch Series racing.

[pfc_m_drake]

If you don't have a main series (e.g. ChampCar) then you have nothing for your ladder series to support. Ergo the money is being spent to keep ChampCar going at the moment. Once that situation stabilizes, then you can worry about the ladder series.

I know it probably seems like taking a step back, but first things first.

[L1P1]

In terms of personnel development, I don't think that the ladder series' are very important right now. If you look at the top teams in American OW racing, they don't really need many people from Atlantics (or wherever).

Haas, Penske, Forsythe, Ganassi can all take from each other and from the likes of Walker, Foyt, Nunn, Patrick, Hemelgarn, etc. Other than Rahal, who had a project driver, why would they need development teams? And for drivers, why would you spend the money to develop a driver when so many in F3K become available?

I think it's the smaller teams that benefit most from a ladder team, but - Catch 22 - the smaller teams don't have extra money.

I think the answer is to make Atlantics a near top-flight series in its own right - along the lines of the NASCAR Truck series. Minor league? Yes. But differentiated enough that they can stand alone without as much of the minor league stigma. Think of cars akin to Saleens and Moslers that handle like (and offer good experience for) the ChampCars but have a different vibe. One all of their own.

I think that if you could do this, then owning an Atlantic team could be profitable. And given that, there's no reason for *any* Champ Car team not to do it.

[Jag_Warrior]

I agree with L1P1. And doesn't it now cost as much or more to run an Atlantics team than the last year of Indy Lights? I heard that but don't know if it's true.