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RacinM3
01-14-05, 02:43 PM
I didn't see a topic about this. A buddy of mine is a crew member. This was an email from him after the accident. If some parts don't make sense, it's because I edited out some specifics that might assist in identifying him, just in case. Amazing that the timing of the accident was just after a time where they would have had many loose parts on board that could have turned into projectiles. I believe they went from 30 knots or so to 0 knots, in an instant.

From the USS San Francisco (The submarine that recently collided with a sea mountain 300 miles south of Guam):


I thought that I would put out a note since a lot of you have been calling and writing to find out how things are and if I'm OK and what happened. If you hadn't heard, my boat hit a uncharted submerged sea mount at the highest speed we can go at about 500ft below the surface. There were about 30 of us that were seriously hurt and unfortunately one of my shipmates didn't make it.

First off I am OK. I am pretty beat up <snip - talks about specific injuries - painful but not major> and may require surgery. They will evaluate later this week. I am very fortunate that I hit the wall and didn't go down a ladderwell that was right next to where I hit. If I had gone down that, I would have got really messed up. I took a tremendous shot <snip> from something. If it had been slightly lower <snip> it would have been really ugly. But all in all I am in good shape.

We hit it at about noon right after field day (where all of us clean the
boat for several hours). Thank God we didn't hit while we were doing this
or it would have been much worse. We would have had flying deck plates
through the air and such. Not good. As it was, it happened while chow was
going on and most people were either sitting and eating or on watch.

I don't remember much of the collision. People describe it as like in the
movie the Matrix where everything slowed down and levitated and then went
flying forward faster that the brain can process. My mind has blanked it
out exactly what happened. Adrenaline kicked in and I have no real memory of
how I got down to middle level or what I did immediately following. I
helped carry several shipmates to the crew mess deck (adrenaline is a
wonderful thing) <snip - talks about his specific injuries> was wrecked and I had no idea until <snip> later). I sat with several of my junior guys that had bad head wounds and talked with them to keep them conscious until doc could see them. It seemed like an eternity but I'm sure wasn't that long.

For those Navy folks that ever wondered why Chief's stomp around and preach "Stow for Sea" This was a perfect example. It definitely saved lives.
I am extremely proud of the crew to do damage control, help the wounded and get the boat safely to the surface (for the boat guys we blew the tanks dry on the emergency blow but unbeknownst to us we were missing some ballast tanks/some didn't have integrity). The ship's control party did every thing exactly right even though they were hurt as well. The Diving Officer of the Watch had just unbuckled his belt to update a status board and hit the
Ship's Control Panel hard enough to break some of the gauges. To add insult
to injury his chair came up right behind him. Several people were injured
in the Engine Room Lower Level area. <snip - at least he retains his sense of humor> Lots of metal and sharp edges in the
area as well as that's were the boat's smoking area is at. Several crew
members are reevaluating that habit now.

Once again we got lucky in the fact that we had an extra corpsman onboard.
One of our officer's was a prior enlisted corpsman that was a Fleet Marine
Force medic so he was a Godsend for us. Our Corpsman did an outstanding job getting everyone stabilized and did the best he could for our fallen
shipmate. I am surprised that he got him to hold on as long as he did. Our
corpsman is definitely a hero in my book. He didn't sleep for 2 or 3 days.
We finally put him down when the SEAL docs helicoptered in to help. Like I
said, I am extremely proud of my crew and how they handled themselves. My
Chief of the Boat was an inspiration of what a leader should be and my
Captain was as well. My XO took out an EAB manifold with his back but still
managed to help coordinate things. No matter what happens later, these men
did a superior job under difficult circumstances. I am humbled by the
entire crew's performance from the CO down to the Seaman <snip>

For those of you wondering, I am sure there will be an investigation into
what happened and no I was not part of the navigation preps for this
voyage. <snip - talks about his job> My position didn't have anything to do with the conventional navigation part of it. <snip - talks about his position in the coming inquiry>

I thank you all for you concern and appreciate your prayers not only for
myself, but for my shipmates. We are doing well, we band of brothers and
will pull through just fine."

dando
01-14-05, 02:55 PM
Glad to hear he's OK. Here's a link to a NY Times piece I read a few days ago, which details the impact and resulting damage:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/national/12sub.html?ei=5006&en=b0fff208ce95aa79&ex=1106110800&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=


Navy officials said the San Francisco was traveling at 30 knots when it careened off some part of the undersea mountain range. In one of the e-mail messages, Admiral Sullivan wrote that on impact, the vessel made a "nearly instantaneous deacceleration" to about 4 knots.

:eek:

-Kevin

RaceGrrl
01-14-05, 03:01 PM
Unreal, and incredibly scary. Glad to hear that your friend is going to recover.

RichK
01-14-05, 03:14 PM
Thanks, M3, that puts a very personal touch on the news that I read when it happened! Amazing (and a good thing) that the sub can survive a head-on with a mountain at 30 knots.

mapguy
01-14-05, 03:28 PM
Was it a boomer or hunter/killer? The best man at my wedding served on a Los Angeles class sub (USS Bluefish).

KLang
01-14-05, 03:42 PM
Pretty sure it's still that boomers are named after states and the attack boats are cities.

Pretty impressive that boat didn't suffer more damage then it did. Also seems a bit strange that there was an uncharted seamount.

Jervis Tetch 1
01-14-05, 04:08 PM
The most famous U.S.S. San Francisco was a heavy cruiser that survived Pearl Harbor and the fierce naval battle of Guadalcanal in 1942.

That SF got hit worse than this one, but that's fortunate now.

When did they start naming subs after cities? They used to name them after aquatic sea creatures - fish, mammels, crustacians, etc.

KLang
01-14-05, 04:17 PM
When did they start naming subs after cities?

The Los Angelas class are all named after cities: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/ssn-688-unit.htm

Didn't realize we had that many of those.

Jervis Tetch 1
01-14-05, 04:22 PM
KLang, from the looks of things I guess the Navy started naming subs after cities in the mid 70s.

That's a shame to me really because being the son of a Navy man, tradition means (or meant) a lot in the Navy. Heavy and Light cruisers were always named after U.S. cities or cities in U.S. territories (the Honolulu was commissioned before Hawaii became a state).

Now I'll miss all those great sub names like Nautilus, Dace, Darter, Archerfish, Skate, Ray and my favorite Bowfin.

RichK
01-14-05, 04:22 PM
Here's a chart that explains ship names:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/names.htm

Looks like submarine names changed from fish and "denizens of the deep" to cities after WWII.

devilmaster
01-14-05, 05:42 PM
Now I'll miss all those great sub names like Nautilus, Dace, Darter, Archerfish, Skate, Ray and my favorite Bowfin.

When I was sailing out of Victoria, a sub came in and I had a great tour of the USS Tautog.

Steve

Ziggy
01-14-05, 05:58 PM
Thanks for sharing this email with us. It could have been alot worse.

Ocean is still a big place, even with all the technology

Michaelhatesfans
01-14-05, 06:11 PM
The engineers responsible for the durability of this thing deserve a few beers, methinks.

oddlycalm
01-14-05, 06:13 PM
Thanks for posting the message M3. Heroics indeed. From what I've read elsewhere stabilizing the boat was a pretty tall order. On a more mechanical note, I'm pretty certain nobody has every crash tested one of these boats at speed, but the results are almost unbeleivable. That is a seriously strong boat. :thumbup:

BTW, 30 knots sounds rather conservative for a Los Angeles class boat. According to what I've been told over the years 45kts would be more like it. The Navy is not in the habit of reporting such speeds, and I was more than a little surprised they commented on the 500ft. depth. It used to be that all deep dive depths were referred to as "in excess of 300ft." which meant anything from 301ft. to crush depth.

oc

Gnam
01-14-05, 06:37 PM
The engineers responsible for the durability of this thing deserve a few beers, methinks.

Well, yeah. But I don't think anyone brought up this scenario in the design meeting. It's probably just that diving beneath the ocean to whatever depth requires the same strength as crashing into a mountain.

I've heard stories about their cat and mouse games with Soviet subs. The subs would come back to port with dented noses or wrinkled side panels and it was always attributed to storm damage or normal wear and tear.

Ankf00
01-14-05, 07:12 PM
the "U.S.S. Dallas" in Red October the movie was the U.S.S. Houston

Michaelhatesfans
01-14-05, 07:37 PM
It's probably just that diving beneath the ocean to whatever depth requires the same strength as crashing into a mountain.
You might have a point there.

Ankf00
01-14-05, 07:55 PM
their structures are designed with large safety factors so as to survive massive seismic shocks and shocks from nuclear blasts to name a couple...

Gnam
01-15-05, 02:48 AM
their structures are designed with large safety factors so as to survive massive seismic shocks and shocks from nuclear blasts to name a couple...
Safety factors sure, but survive a nuclear blast? If they ever get those ballistic missile interceptors to actually work, then nuclear armed 'boomer' subs will be some of the first customers. Because as soon as a sub launches a ICBM, it's position can be detected from space. After that, all the enemy has to do is drop a nuke 'near' the sub to take it out. A viable interceptor would improve the survivability of a sub, increasing its usefulness.

Railbird
01-15-05, 08:58 AM
Very interesting read M3, thanks.

Ankf00
01-15-05, 12:37 PM
Safety factors sure, but survive a nuclear blast? If they ever get those ballistic missile interceptors to actually work, then nuclear armed 'boomer' subs will be some of the first customers. Because as soon as a sub launches a ICBM, it's position can be detected from space. After that, all the enemy has to do is drop a nuke 'near' the sub to take it out. A viable interceptor would improve the survivability of a sub, increasing its usefulness.

there's a difference between the nuclear blast itself and the resultant shockwave, and they do design for that

dando
01-27-05, 06:42 PM
US Navy released pics of the USS SF today:

http://www.navy.mil/view_gallery.asp?category_id=17

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_050127-N-4658L-030.jpg

:eek:

-Kevin

Gnam
01-27-05, 06:44 PM
Must have been a glancing blow. The right side doesn't seem as heavily damaged. Wow.

dando
01-27-05, 06:48 PM
Must have been a glancing blow. The right side doesn't seem as heavily damaged. Wow.
Off-center crash it would appear.

-Kevin

JLMannin
01-27-05, 11:54 PM
Is that bulge just behind the first man walking supposed to be there, or is that part of the crash damage?

If that is crash damage, then the forward 1/3 or so will need extensive work.

dando
01-28-05, 12:16 AM
Is that bulge just behind the first man walking supposed to be there, or is that part of the crash damage?

If that is crash damage, then the forward 1/3 or so will need extensive work.
I seriously doubt it's supposed to be there. Looks like the front 2-3 comparments buckled based on the wave in the hull line. These boomers are supposed to be totally smooth to reduce the sonar signature. I have a bud that was on the boat in the 80s. I'll check with him on that to be sure.

-Kevin

Ankf00
01-28-05, 12:44 AM
I seriously doubt it's supposed to be there. Looks like the front 2-3 comparments buckled based on the wave in the hull line. These boomers are supposed to be totally smooth to reduce the sonar signature. I have a bud that was on the boat in the 80s. I'll check with him on that to be sure.

-Kevin

also smooth is the best form for a pressure vessel...

gnam: that's not glancing, the structure buckled... a pressure vessel doesn't just collapse

also the most aerodynamic, stable design for a craft in a fluid, there's a reason airliner fuselages are glorified cans and why your stable kayak/canoe has a continuous straight line bottom while your more agile playboats and slower river runners have a curved hull

G.
01-28-05, 11:18 AM
Is that bulge just behind the first man walking supposed to be there, or is that part of the crash damage?

If that is crash damage, then the forward 1/3 or so will need extensive work.Might be an optical illusion. The guardrail that they added goes "uphill" where the bulge appears, ie., the walkway gets narrower right there.

Biggie damage.

oddlycalm
01-28-05, 02:26 PM
MightBiggie damage. Agreed, and it will be a long time before that boat is back in full service. I'm guessing that they will button her up for traveling in Guam then send her elsewhere for full repairs and a refitting, maybe even back to Electric Boat in Groton. Looks to me like at least the front third of the structure is trashed, and it will probably turn out to be more once they've got it all torn down. No way they have either the people or equipment to deal with that in Guam.

Once again though, that is one stong structure to look like that after a high speed head on crash.

oc

Gnam
01-28-05, 02:28 PM
USS La Jolla (http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=12097)
http://www.news.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_040223-N-5539C-001.jpg

USS Houston (http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=19827)
http://www.news.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_041224-N-7293M-022.jpg

USS Key West
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/la/images/la10.jpg

Judging from these other pictures of undamged boats, I would say that wrinkle is a result from the accident. Oh man. :eek:

Wonder if it will be cheaper to scrap the boat and build a new one?

sadams
01-28-05, 04:11 PM
Make a museum out of her. From the sail forward is pertty much over stressed. The sad part is she just went through a refit costing some large coin. She's been in service since 1981 and doesn't have vertical launch so she has limited use in today's world with out any real prey out there.

Steve99
01-28-05, 08:26 PM
$200 million spent in 2002 to refuel the reactor and refit the ship.

The bow sonar dome probably absorbed some of the impact (like a crash structure), but if they were going full speed as the email says then it was 35+ knots. Ouch. The tarp is covering what is left the of the bow sonar.

The don't make the Los Angeles class anymore. The Virginia class (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/nssn.htm) is the current model of fast-attack in production.