View Full Version : Suicide attempt kills 10
I'm really at a loss on this one.
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050126/D87RVJ0O0.html
Guess now the ****** has something to be depressed about. :flame: :shakehead
A guy I used to work with spent several months in a hospital because some depressed 17-year-old girl swerved into his lane and hit his car head on at 70 mph trying to kill herself.
She walked away from the accident. :flame:
oddlycalm
01-26-05, 05:38 PM
If you are going to take yourself out of the game, you owe it to the rest of the species to do so without collateral damage. Inflicting your personal problems on hundreds of others is the pinnacle of narcisism. :thumdown: :shakehead
Other than that, just the latest malfunctioning member of the species. The malfunctions are nothing new, the difference is that every last one of them is beamed to us within minutes due to current communications equipment. Individual ownership of sophisticated weapons and two ton vehicles enables people to do onto others in a big way. Unfortunate, but it's impossible to prevent those with deep depression from owning weapons or vehicles without a level of state involvement would probably lead to the rest of us wanting to follow his lead.
It reminds me of the PSA employee that took a .44 magnum onto one of their plans and offed the pilots and crashed a plane full of passengers. I hope there is a special lower ring of the inferno reserved for these creeps.
oc
Sean O'Gorman
01-26-05, 06:04 PM
:(
indyfan31
01-26-05, 06:25 PM
So, not only is he a coward, but he's an idiot too.
He doesn't deserve to die now, he deserves to rot in jail where the "sisters" can have him.
fourrunner
01-26-05, 06:37 PM
I'm betting he wishes he hadn't changed his mind at the last second !
I just hope that his next suicide attempt succeeeds and he does it where no one else is affected.
I don't really want to see one nickel of taxpayers money used to jail this guy for a lengthy period !
Is there any reason he couldn't drive his car off the tracks as opposed to just letting it sit there :confused:
Ed_Severson
01-26-05, 07:29 PM
Is there any reason he couldn't drive his car off the tracks as opposed to just letting it sit there :confused:
Aside from terminal stupidity?
Sean O'Gorman
01-26-05, 07:35 PM
I'm betting he wishes he hadn't changed his mind at the last second !
I just hope that his next suicide attempt succeeeds and he does it where no one else is affected.
I don't really want to see one nickel of taxpayers money used to jail this guy for a lengthy period !
I think he learned a valuable lesson today. Next time, shotgun to the dome, no fcuking around. :mad:
spinner26
01-26-05, 08:16 PM
See I disagree with all the suicide b.s., attempted suicide is " I want attention."
It's like the phrase attempting to elude police. Hello, they ran or drove away so therefore they eluded.
You want to commit suicide DO IT! GET IT OVER WITH AND SPARE US ALL THE B.S.
I have a brother who at thirty two is supposedly suicidal. No he's not or he would have killed himself. He wants attention and get's it every fricken day thanks to all of our tax dollars. Kill yourself, get it over with, we pay a clean up crew an investication team and boom it's all done. When "attempted" we all pay for the bad luck of it not working.
I have a sawed off shotgun I'll let anyone use who wants to commit suicide. I promise it WILL work. I won't even charge for the shell. :flame:
Is there any reason he couldn't drive his car off the tracks as opposed to just letting it sit there :confused:
It was reported the guy drove his car onto the tracks down a bit from the street crossing. When he chickened-out the truck became disabled on the tracks. Unfortunately he was unable to get out in time. :shakehead
My first thought was that, even though he survived, his life is now essentially over.
What a waste. :(
Some of you need to read this thread: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5310
and this one:
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4878
Let me know if you still feel the same way about suicide afterwards.
As for the original topic of this thread, here's a question you won't hear asked, but should be: what if a terrorist organization did the same thing (maybe with some explosives) rather than a suicidal lunatic?
That's kind of why I said I was at a loss, JB. On one hand I'm sympathetic that anyone who is suicidal needs help of one kind or another. But in this case, and in many others, their behavior is ultimately, tragically selfish.
On your second comment, I'm afraid I really don't understand your point.
Dr. Corkski
01-26-05, 09:06 PM
Let me know if you still feel the same way about suicide afterwards.Yes.
On your second comment, I'm afraid I really don't understand your point.
My point is that this could have been a lot worse, and had a much deeper effect on the public's confidence in our transit systems.
If one suicidal lunatic can kill 12 people and injure a hundred, imagine what someone out to cause harm could have done. And, imagine what would happen to the public's confidence in mass transit.
Some of you need to read this thread:
werd. :(
spinner26
01-26-05, 11:05 PM
Let me know if you still feel the same way about suicide afterwards.
Sir, yes sir, I sure do.
Brickman
01-27-05, 01:24 AM
Some of you need to read this thread: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5310
and this one:
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4878
Let me know if you still feel the same way about suicide afterwards.
As for the original topic of this thread, here's a question you won't hear asked, but should be: what if a terrorist organization did the same thing (maybe with some explosives) rather than a suicidal lunatic?
JoeBob once again shows why he's one of the smartest to participate on any racing forum.
Depression is an illness, it's not always easily fixed. It's not always about getting attention, it's also about being out of control, about falling to depths of darkness unknown to probably anyone here.
When someone has cancer, they vomit, have diarrhea. The symptons aren't pretty, but nothing compared to the illness... Suicide is a sympton of depression, as in the case in L.A. or the experiences of forum members as pointed out in heart pained discussions. No one suggests borrowing a shotgun for the cancer victim, nor should they for the truely depressed.
That being said it's shame that help wasn't found so that loved ones are victims of someone's illness. JoeBob was also quite correct about terrorists. Rail transist is more prevalent back east, but a nation wide terror strike would be easily carried out if so desired.
indyfan31
01-27-05, 10:51 AM
Sorry Brick, I don't buy that. The threads JoeBob pointed out were about people who were genuinely depressed, probably over things beyond their control.
This guy was a drug addict with prior arrests, his wife had a restraining order against him for threatening her family and friends. Any reasons he had for his "depression" were self-inflicted. He never had any intention of killing himself, he just wanted the attention. I have absolutely no sympathy for him.
RaceGrrl
01-27-05, 11:29 AM
To say that you KNOW he had no intent to kill himself is ridiculous. When did you become a mindreader?
RacinM3
01-27-05, 11:29 AM
Here's the deal as I see it. You have a guy who thinks he might want to kill himself. He goes down to the crossing, and decides to go for it. He drives onto the tracks and waits to meet his maker. He thinks "hey, it's a train, it'll smash me and my Jeep like we're not even there....no one else will get hurt", completely ignorant (key word) of the fact that his car is fully capable of derailing the train.
He decides at the last second that life's worth living (or whatever) and tries to drive off, but can't, the car's stuck. Next best thing: bail. He does and watches the absolute "perfect storm" of an accident. Train hits car, drags it a ways, derails, smashes into a parked freight, accordions and takes out another Metrolink train coming the other direction. He sits and watches it unfold like a bad dream. 11 (or more) people aren't going to work today, or ever again.
Selfishness, stupidity and ignorance strike again, and the Darwin theory misses another chance to clean up the planet.
And all he has to say is "I didn't know that could happen".
Federal guidelines allow for the death penalty for an intentional train derailment resulting in fatality. Trouble is, some lawyer will prove he never meant to derail the train, and chances are he'll get the help he "needs".
Sad.
Brickman
01-27-05, 12:06 PM
Sorry Brick, I don't buy that. The threads JoeBob pointed out were about people who were genuinely depressed, probably over things beyond their control.
This guy was a drug addict with prior arrests, his wife had a restraining order against him for threatening her family and friends. Any reasons he had for his "depression" were self-inflicted. He never had any intention of killing himself, he just wanted the attention. I have absolutely no sympathy for him.
I hadn't read the details of his situation. Self inflicted depressions such as drugs, getting caught doing child molestation aren't on my sympathy list. Nobody wants someone to screw up their life, because when they do they inevitably take others with them.
fourrunner
01-27-05, 12:51 PM
I'm a pretty "Liberal" guy ... If I drift to the right, I'm just left of center...
This being said
I find it hard to think that we MUST look at the disease, and forget about the effects ....
12 people were killed because of this guys undiagnosed or ignored condition ...
I just find it hard to justify writing the deaths off as "unfortunate" or just plain "collateral damage" or "sheet happens"
12 family's lives are ruined, they were just minding their business, just going about their day, I'm sure some were providers that will no longer provide for their families, and the "trickle down" just keeps on keeping on.
Just because "Zippy the Loon" was upset his wife doesn't like him any more.
I can have sympathy for the guy ... but sometimes you just got to pay for your actions !
I'm having a real hard time balancing these deaths in relation to the guys disease and finding much sympathy to the guy ... If he just wrecked the train, and no one was hurt, then it's only money !
He must have some lucid moments, after all he realized he didn't really want to die
To bad the people on the train weren't given the same luxury, he grabbed for himself!
JLMannin
01-27-05, 01:13 PM
I predict an onslaught of lawsuits.
Alvarez apparently changed his mind after driving onto the tracks, but was unsuccessful in his attempts to remove his vehicle, said Glendale Mayor Bob Yousefian.
Alvarez could sue Dailmer/Chrystler, or manufacturers of the ingition systems components. He could sue Metrolink or the city of Glendale for not making it impossible to stop on the tracks. The victims and their families could sue the same parties as well.
If he gets off on the criminal charges, he could be tried in civil court
Winston Wolfe
01-27-05, 01:48 PM
Man, what a conflict here. :rolleyes:
Do we "save" the guy who was depressed and "almost" killed himself?
Or
Do we string him up \ gas him \ lethally inject him, or otherwise dispose of him because of what he did ?
What a liberal, "give the guy a break", the "system failed him", "we have to work to save everyone" kind of an attitude is that?
What about the innocent, bread winners, family members, or whomever, that were on that train going about their own personal business when their lives are going to be permanently interrupted or ended, and their families lives forever changed based on the actions of this complete ********* who was having trouble coping with drugs, his wife, and life in general, decided to go out in a blaze of glory and cant even get that right ?
The more info you hear about the guy, the more you just have to hate him, for what he has done to himself, and for what he has done to hundreds AND HUNDREDS of completely innocent people who never should have ever known about him, or his problems. Now we all do, and for all the wrong reasons.
I cant believe that anyone has sympathy for a guy like this, even all of the bleeding heart liberals who'll come up with some way to provide a defense for this guy. what about the victims.....the INNOCENT victims?
Another trapped man had used his own blood to write a note on a seat bottom. Using the heart symbol, he wrote "I love my kids" and "I love Leslie."
Fry the mofo. :thumdown:
On a technical note, I am surprised the Jeep Cherokee was able to derail the train in the first place. The train should have shredded the Jeep and kept going. I guess it's possible a piece of debris rolled under the train's wheels, but WTF knows? Maybe those cow catchers will make a comeback now.
Tifosi24
01-27-05, 03:12 PM
On a technical note, I am surprised the Jeep Cherokee was able to derail the train in the first place. The train should have shredded the Jeep and kept going. I guess it's possible a piece of debris rolled under the train's wheels, but WTF knows? Maybe those cow catchers will make a comeback now.
I may have read it wrong earlier in the thread, but I believe someone said that he had pulled his vehicle up further on the tracks, which meant that he would have been off of the crossing section. My guess would be without the smooth crossing transition under the Jeep it would have allowed, as you said, for debris from the Jeep to get underneath the train. It is also entirely possible that the train would have been breaking hard, and anyone who has been on light or heavy rail know how much they sway around under braking, and the swaying center of gravity may have made the impact enough to cause it to jump the tracks.
On another topic, the push by meaning to give this man the death pentalty is missing some logic. I am not here to comment on the man's past or mental state of mind, but I am of the standing that in a situation like this you don't give someone what they are looking for. This creep is obviously a deadbeat, but getting to spend the rest of his life in prison, with a bunch of "loving" cellmates, seems to make more sense than giving this man what he wants. I have a great logical comparasion, but it would likely cause some rancor, and I am not in the business of getting people riled up, especially over such a terrible event. My prayers go out to the families of those on the train, and to the medical personal that had to come to their rescue.
The Doctor
01-27-05, 03:55 PM
From today's NYT article on the crash -- how the Jeep caused the train to derail:
"Because Mr. Alvarez's truck was wedged between the rails and not sitting at a grade crossing, it became an "immovable object," Mr Solow said, vaulting the front car of the train into the air.
The out-of-control train struck the work train on a track just west of the Metrolink rails, knocking the locomotive on its side. ...
After striking the Union Pacific Train, the southbound train slammed into an oncoming Metrolink train, No. 901..."
indyfan31
01-27-05, 11:12 PM
To say that you KNOW he had no intent to kill himself is ridiculous. When did you become a mindreader?
RaceGrrl. I don't have to be a mindreader. There are two kinds of suicide cases: those who really feel that ending their life will solve their problems, and those who just want to draw attention to themselves. The former usually succeed because they're serious about it, and the latter usually fail or get talked out of it. Even if it wasn't someone we know, we've all seen it time and again, I'm sure you have too.
His wife tossed him out, then got an restraining order to keep him away from the kids, he was basically just doing the "I'll show her" routine. His attempts at slitting his wrists and stabbing himself resulted in superficial wounds. If he really wanted to end it all he would have just walked in front of the train.
RaceGrrl. I don't have to be a mindreader. There are two kinds of suicide cases: those who really feel that ending their life will solve their problems, and those who just want to draw attention to themselves.
There are two kinds of people. Those who see everything as black and white and those who don't.
RaceGrrl. I don't have to be a mindreader. There are two kinds of suicide cases: those who really feel that ending their life will solve their problems, and those who just want to draw attention to themselves. The former usually succeed because they're serious about it, and the latter usually fail or get talked out of it. Even if it wasn't someone we know, we've all seen it time and again, I'm sure you have too.
His wife tossed him out, then got an restraining order to keep him away from the kids, he was basically just doing the "I'll show her" routine. His attempts at slitting his wrists and stabbing himself resulted in superficial wounds. If he really wanted to end it all he would have just walked in front of the train.
I had a friend try to kill himself, he lived... he meant it. He just sucks at execution thankfully.
JLMannin
01-27-05, 11:48 PM
If he really wanted to end it all he would have just walked in front of the train.
Thank You. Short, sweet, and sums it up perfectly. That is how I feel.
racer2c
01-27-05, 11:53 PM
If he really wanted to end it all he would have just walked in front of the train.
If he really wanted to end it all he should have just walked in front of the train. A person in a suicidal state of mind is not one who I would look to as thinking through consequences.
Another possible reason this MetroLink train derailed is the fact that this particular train's engine was the very last "car". This train's first car was a passenger car, the front of which is essentially a flat plane, as opposed to the low-profile-steel-construction-cow-catcher-front-end a lead engine would have.
I was floored to hear that half of the MetroLink trains are basically pushed by the engine car from the rear. Though passengers on those trains are warned that the lead car may not be the safest in the event of a collision, I'm astounded that MetroRail would even put passengers at risk. :shakehead
Another possible reason this MetroLink train derailed is the fact that this particular train's engine was the very last "car". This train's first car was a passenger car, the front of which is essentially a flat plane, as opposed to the low-profile-steel-construction-cow-catcher-front-end a lead engine would have.
I was floored to hear that half of the MetroLink trains are basically pushed by the engine car from the rear. Though passengers on those trains are warned that the lead car may not be the safest in the event of a collision, I'm astounded that MetroRail would even put passengers at risk. :shakehead
this begs for an aggy joke, but it's just not funny, f'ing ridiculous is what it is :(
Brickman
01-28-05, 01:41 AM
Another possible reason this MetroLink train derailed is the fact that this particular train's engine was the very last "car". This train's first car was a passenger car, the front of which is essentially a flat plane, as opposed to the low-profile-steel-construction-cow-catcher-front-end a lead engine would have.
I was floored to hear that half of the MetroLink trains are basically pushed by the engine car from the rear. Though passengers on those trains are warned that the lead car may not be the safest in the event of a collision, I'm astounded that MetroRail would even put passengers at risk. :shakehead
Indeed.
Cheaper to put push and pull rather than take the time to add switches for the cars is what I heard. The heavier locomotive would have booted the car instead of plowing into the passenger cars.
indyfan31
01-28-05, 02:45 AM
If he really wanted to end it all he should have just walked in front of the train. A person in a suicidal state of mind is not one who I would look to as thinking through consequences.
You'd be surprised, many people in a suicidal state think things through very carefully, even as far as to consider the consequences after they're gone.
indyfan31
01-28-05, 02:55 AM
There are two kinds of people. Those who see everything as black and white and those who don't.
Yes, more often than not, I do. However, in this case, that may be all there is to it. Even the local DA is confident enough to file murder charges against the guy, not manslaughter.
KaBoom21
01-28-05, 05:30 PM
It reminds me of the PSA employee that took a .44 magnum onto one of their plans and offed the pilots and crashed a plane full of passengers.
What is this about? Link?
FCYTravis
01-28-05, 05:51 PM
Push-pull is not something only Metrolink does. It's a very common practice among commuter and short-haul rail lines around the country - Metro-North and the Long Island Rail Road in New York, Caltrain in San Francisco, Metra in Chicago, VRE and MARC in Washington, D.C., the Amtrak Capitol Corridor between San Jose and Sacramento, etc. etc.
As for the assertion that this wouldn't have happened had a locomotive hit the car, that's not necessarily true at all. Hitting a car (especially a large SUV) at high speed can derail a locomotive just as easily as it can derail a cab car.
Even the initial derailment wouldn't necessarily have been so fatal except for the chance positioning of the train between a parked locomotive and another train coming on the opposite track. :(
It should also be noted that the front car has extra reinforcement just in case there is a collision. Even when the train is being pushed, the lead car is strong enough to destroy/move a car on the tracks. The issue here was that the car was not at a crossing, but rather wedged into the tracks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/27/national/27cnd-train.html?pagewanted=3
Because Mr. Alvarez's truck was wedged between the rails and not sitting at a grade crossing, it became an "immovable object," Mr. Solow said, vaulting the front car of the train into the air and causing the cars behind it to twist on their couplings and fold in on one another like an accordion.
Mr. Solow said that Metrolink and most other passenger trains are designed to withstand a collision with a light vehicle stopped at a grade crossing. The cab car in the front of the southbound train had a reinforced frame designed to deflect or destroy vehicles parked at level grade crossings.
"Normally at a grade crossing the car is smashed to smithereens and the train stays on the track," Mr. Solow said. "But this car was wedged between the tracks, and the only way for the cab car to go was up."
What is this about? Link?
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa1771.shtml
Anteater
01-28-05, 11:17 PM
I was floored to hear that half of the MetroLink trains are basically pushed by the engine car from the rear. Though passengers on those trains are warned that the lead car may not be the safest in the event of a collision, I'm astounded that MetroRail would even put passengers at risk. :shakehead
There was another fatal Metrolink wreck in 2002; as I recall, the 3 fatalities in that one were in the lead passenger car. I haven't sat in one of those lead cars since. :eek:
the car may be reinforced, but wouldn't the engine car being much heavier be better suited to clearing a track b/c of all its momentum?
indyfan31
02-21-05, 11:56 PM
Like I said, you don't have to be an "expert" to spot a fake:
Follow-up (http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204%257E27141%257E2718210,00.html)
Methanolandbrats
02-22-05, 12:01 AM
If he wants attention, put him in a cellblock with White Supremacists. Then he'll feel special.
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