View Full Version : Now you HAVE to like it!
Sean O'Gorman
02-04-05, 01:47 PM
AHAaAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! (http://www.grand-am.com/News/Article.asp?ID=3609)
;)
In all seriousness, I think this is a real good sign for Champ Car. Maybe it is the first step towards getting back at Michigan and Fontana (assuming the series has any interest).
racer2c
02-04-05, 02:09 PM
I have mixed feelings when it comes to any association between Champ Car and any NASCAR series be it trucks or GA. On one hand I see NASCAR using Champ Car to gain entry into a market only throw them to the dogs when they see fit. On the other hand, it makes for a stronger weekend package which will draw more fans out and help Champ Car grow. I guess I'd rather see GA run with Champ Car than with the IRL.
Mexico city doesn't need any help with attendance, does it? :confused:
What is NASCAR's angle here? Hair on back of neck standing...
Champ car has shared weekends with a lot of different series including Craftsman Trucks, Winston West and ALMS. The notion that a champ car fan must like every series that they share a weekend with is nonsense.
According to your own logic you MUST be a drifting fan.
What is NASCAR's angle here? Hair on back of neck standing...
I agree.
It's called "getting a foot in the door"......
fourrunner
02-04-05, 03:03 PM
"Beware of Greeks Bearing Gifts" It might hurt later when you sit down!! ;)
Don Quixote
02-04-05, 04:31 PM
It will be fun to hear the lemmings say how all the fans are there to see the GA race.
What is NASCAR's angle here?
If I had to guess I'd say that NASCAR the France's want to buy the Brickyard and are getting ready to put the squeeze on Tony when Honda and Toyota pull out. But I don't know what's in it for us.
...and ARCA at Milwaukee...STOCK CAR COUNTRY!
I agree.
It's called "getting a foot in the door"......
Or putting a plexiglas shiv in the back...
Who knows? It may be some thing that was written into the Las Vegas contract?
You piggyback our event at Las Vegas and we will piggyback your event in MxCity. Sometimes deals have a little give and take to get them done.
Or GA could be buying track time from Champ Car or the event organizer or a number or other things.
It won't hurt the event either way. If ChampCar can't stand on its own and take a dominering position on the likes of GrandAm overtaking it from a support series position then the demise of the series is a given anyway.
Relax and enjoy the show. "That is my policy. I didn't have policy until just a short while ago, now I got that one." -Ron White
Sean O'Gorman
02-04-05, 05:44 PM
My guess is that Grand-Am was running into the same problem that I'm sure ALMS had when they tried to run at Mexico City: lack of fan interest. But rather than cancel the event, they must've negotiated a way to get into the Champ Car weekend as a supporting event.
racer2c
02-04-05, 05:48 PM
Who knows? It may be some thing that was written into the Las Vegas contract?
You piggyback our event at Las Vegas and we will piggyback your event in MxCity. Sometimes deals have a little give and take to get them done.
Or GA could be buying track time from Champ Car or the event organizer or a number or other things.
It won't hurt the event either way. If ChampCar can't stand on its own and take a dominering position on the likes of GrandAm overtaking it from a support series position then the demise of the series is a given anyway.
Relax and enjoy the show. "That is my policy. I didn't have policy until just a short while ago, now I got that one." -Ron White
Logical observation T7. One reason that I never agreed with the "CART should team up with the ALMS" back on 7G is that the ALMS had the attitude that there were at least on par with CART if not better (per Don's comments when asked and his observations on the decent NBC tv ratings that they received.) We'll see if Grand Am follows suit. So far, the Grand Am presidents comments about Mexico with the CCWS seem to be very conciliatory.
Sean O'Gorman
02-04-05, 06:16 PM
The threads about this at TF are hysterical. If you thought I was bad about Grand-Am, you need to read one of Doc Austin's posts in that thread. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, I wonder how long until someone there notices the user title I gave myself and changes it. :D
.... you need to read one of Doc Austin's posts in that thread.
I'd rather staple my nuts to a catus than read tf bile.
Accipiter
02-04-05, 07:23 PM
I don't think this should be construed in any way as a thawing of relations between Champ Car and NASCAR/ISC camps. More likely it was OCESA forcing a shotgun marriage betweenfor their own best interests. If there was any back-board dealings, it was probably NASCAR making a Grand Am event a condition of the track getting the Busch/Truck race.
FCYTravis
02-04-05, 07:42 PM
I don't think this should be construed in any way as a thawing of relations between Champ Car and NASCAR/ISC camps. More likely it was OCESA forcing a shotgun marriage betweenfor their own best interests. If there was any back-board dealings, it was probably NASCAR making a Grand Am event a condition of the track getting the Busch/Truck race.
If this was the case, the PR-speak in the CCWS release would have been far less enthusiastic and exuberant. Heck, there might not have even been a release at all from the CCWS side if there wasn't something there.
PR-speak comes in measured quantities and every word has a meaning, somewhere...
Racing Truth
02-04-05, 07:55 PM
The threads about this at TF are hysterical. If you thought I was bad about Grand-Am, you need to read one of Doc Austin's posts in that thread. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, I wonder how long until someone there notices the user title I gave myself and changes it. :D
:laugh: Trust me, NO ONE wants you to have THAT title. :eek:
That said, those who are concerned about this being part of a NASCAR/ISC conspiracy need to calm down. ChampCar will always be the main feature here, I give GA credit for going down there.
Oh, and that paint job on the Krohn/TRG Riley is sweet.
Railbird
02-05-05, 07:16 AM
These guys make for a great filler series. Lottsa cars for local ride buyers not to mention lottsa cars for bumping and grinding.
Then when the Champcars take to the track the performance difference will leave no doubt who the headliner is.
Nothing wrong with stayin on the good side of the 800lb gorilla.
I'm predicting that we'll see Adrian Fernandez driving a DP there.
Methanolandbrats
02-05-05, 09:47 AM
ISC's way of leaving FTG a dead fish.
Guys were running :41s at Daytona over 20 years ago. What are they at now, :47s? Bill Elliott was doing 210+ around the oval then, too. Now, 190s? Doesn't seem to have hurt the 'CABS popularity and this field at the Rolex seems to portend a dramatic swell in Grand Am fortunes. Don't judge this one by the empty stands. Look to see where sponsors and drivers are going. You don't have to like it, but don't pretend it's not happening. The new Mustang wins in it's first outing! That's a lot bigger for Ford than successfully unloading an engine facility. Can a USA Today full-page ad be far behind? If GM falls on it's face in front of the Ferrari/Aston challenge they'll head to Grand Am looking for a FAR better ROI there. Sort of a revolution going on. I think it's kind of interesting. As far as Mexico goes, don't you think Forsythe wants to do everything he can to ensure a VERY successful event? It's his nickel. If CC were to team with ANY other series which SHOULD it be? JGTC? :)
Railbird
02-05-05, 12:29 PM
If GM falls on it's face in front of the Ferrari/Aston challenge they'll head to Grand Am
Boy now there's a reason to get jacked up over a series.
I can see the motto now:
"Where Losers Go For ROI"
kinda catchy.
I'll be interested to see what all the NASCAR backing results in. Sooner or later they're going to have to sell some tickets and net some ratings or the sponsors and any manufacture not interested in future Cup involvement are going to be answering some uncomfortable questions fron their share holders.
Boy now there's a reason to get jacked up over a series.
I can see the motto now:
"Where Losers Go For ROI"
kinda catchy.
:rofl:
Cut the ugly roofs off and give them several hundred more HP. And then change the weight limits:
Minimum Weight - Minimum car weight, per engine displacement, less fuel and driver race ready.
Up to 3.99L 2125 pounds
4.0 to 4.5L 2175 pounds
4.51 to 5.0L 2200 pounds
3-1.1 Grand American reserves the right to adjust the weight of any car.
3-1.2 The use of titanium is prohibited except for engine valves and valve spring retainers.
3-1.3 The use of magnesium is prohibited.
Weights and capacity limits like this account for most of Grand Am's major suckage. Take 500 - 700 lbs out of those numbers and I might look twice at the racing.
Accipiter
02-05-05, 03:52 PM
If this was the case, the PR-speak in the CCWS release would have been far less enthusiastic and exuberant. Heck, there might not have even been a release at all from the CCWS side if there wasn't something there.
PR-speak comes in measured quantities and every word has a meaning, somewhere...
Not neccecarily so. Go back and read the press releases for the co-Champ Car/ALMS Miami GP, and you will get no sense at all of the disatisfaction that the ALMS had with being paired in the double bill.
If GM falls on it's face in front of the Ferrari/Aston challenge they'll head to Grand Am
They are already there.
Where losers go? You bet. There is ample precedent. Did GM spend more on the LeMans Cadillac project or presently on the Speed Challenge? I'm guessing they're looking for a better ROI. I think they're getting it. I wonder why Chevy is dropping the JRL? Think they can make more someplace else? Of course they could run in a series where ALL the engines are the same, that's safe. And it works, too. Porsche Cup. Gee, ChampCar. If you think hard I bet you can find MANY examples of teams moving around 'til they can find success or a better ROI. I'd hardly call those many who have migrated to GA losers, but I guess all except 2 will be, by some definition.
Jag_Warrior
02-05-05, 05:35 PM
Did GM spend more on the LeMans Cadillac project or presently on the Speed Challenge?
I guess that's a rhetorical question, but they'll go years before they hit what they spent on the Caddy LMP's (and what a promising race car!!! Idiots! :flame: ). The Cadillac prototype program had as much to do with creating a European brand identity for Cadillac as anything else. Less than a decade ago, Cadillac sold less than two dozen cars in Switzerland. More Jag XJ220's hit the streets than that in Switzerland. Maybe their Euro marketshare will increase when they take over Fiat Auto. :rofl: GM has been reduced to a mortgage and finance company... that makes cars on the side. It's just sad what that company has become. But Ford's not any better off.
But GM seems to be getting some results from their sport compact drag racing involvement. At least they're not losing significant ground in that segment. So it won't surprise me when/if they drop the Corvette Le Mans/ALMS program.
extramundane
02-05-05, 05:36 PM
:rofl:
Cut the ugly roofs off
Oh, but the huge greenhouses are for "safety" because, you know, small cockpits like those Mercedes CLRs won't hold up at all, especially if the car were to roll... :rolleyes:
and give them several hundred more HP. And then change the weight limits:
Minimum Weight - Minimum car weight, per engine displacement, less fuel and driver race ready.
Up to 3.99L 2125 pounds
4.0 to 4.5L 2175 pounds
4.51 to 5.0L 2200 pounds
3-1.1 Grand American reserves the right to adjust the weight of any car.
3-1.2 The use of titanium is prohibited except for engine valves and valve spring retainers.
3-1.3 The use of magnesium is prohibited.
Weights and capacity limits like this account for most of Grand Am's major suckage. Take 500 - 700 lbs out of those numbers and I might look twice at the racing.
Then they'd go faster than Nextel Cup cars, and we can't have that, can we?
That speed thing in racing MUST be overrated. Are Busch cars still faster than Cuppers at the restrictor tracks? Or was that 2 yrs. ago? Wasn't THIS race faster 20 years ago? I don't know, 32 DPs and GREATLY increased interest (if not among many of us) seems to be working. C'mon RA, let's see a 1000k with these guys!
racer2c
02-05-05, 11:11 PM
That speed thing in racing MUST be overrated. Are Busch cars still faster than Cuppers at the restrictor tracks? Or was that 2 yrs. ago? Wasn't THIS race faster 20 years ago? I don't know, 32 DPs and GREATLY increased interest (if not among many of us) seems to be working. C'mon RA, let's see a 1000k with these guys!
1000K? :rofl:
Sure, what's that 620 miles? Then they'll have something in place when ALMS leaves, and the traditional RA 500 opens up. I'm sure they could run a 1000k today as fast as they used to go 500 mi. in the "olden times." They used to go 6 hrs., especially if it rained. 1000k is sort of a traditional sportscar race distance isn't it? Spa. Nurburgring. Monza. (Geez, if I said TEN,000, that was a typo! :gomer: ) This could become a mid-season fixture between Daytona and wherever the finale is. If I was RA I'd be on it. They need another big race weekend...now :(
oddlycalm
02-06-05, 03:54 PM
In all seriousness, I think this is a real good sign for Champ Car. Maybe it is the first step towards getting back at Michigan and Fontana (assuming the series has any interest). The issue with Michigan at least was terrible promotion and tiny crowds. Why would CCWS showing up in Mexico with somebodies ugly sister change anything?
Dumbed down racing that lasts a really long time? Now there's a formula for real success. If most hardcore race fans don't care, what do we suppose the average person on the street is gonna think?
My sentinments echo pchalls. Cut the tops off, lighten the chassis, give me 900hp, and we'll talk prototypes. As for the GP class, it's done better elsewhere (SWC) and the races don't last for hours.
oc
Nothing wrong with stayin on the good side of the 800lb gorilla.
Bingo.
I would much rather work with NASCAR/ISC than against them. Those of you who would love more natural terrain road courses might be pleased to do something with GrandAm if it helps retain/reacquire a few of those weekends, no?
The double header weekends I've proposed with ALMS won't happen, so let's try something else, and let's be clear about this: those show room stock races they used to have at Mid-Ohio during the CART weekends were just an excuse to go get a beer at the concession stand.
Sean O'Gorman
02-07-05, 10:19 AM
...those show room stock races they used to have at Mid-Ohio during the CART weekends were just an excuse to go get a beer at the concession stand.
:(
I like those kind of races. It disappointed me at Mid-Ohio and Road America in '02 when all the 7Gers decided to stand in line for an autograph or Q&A sessions during the Grand-Am Cup (M-O) and Trans-Am (RA) races, because that is some good racing.
FCYTravis
02-07-05, 03:12 PM
Cut the tops off, lighten the chassis, give me 900hp, and we'll talk prototypes.
Cut the tops off? SACRILEGE. True prototypes have roofs - spyders are for wimpy French sanctioning bodies.
Lighten the chassis, give me 900 hp and I'll show you a series that has three cars on the grid.
Oh wait, we already have one of those, the ALMS.
racer2c
02-07-05, 03:31 PM
Grand Am: Saviour to American Motorsport. Thank you NASCAR and hallaluia!
Grand Am: Saviour to American Motorsport. Thank you NASCAR and hallaluia!
Oh, how the sarcasm drips off the tongue or fingertips like cold 10W-50.
Michaelhatesfans
02-07-05, 04:33 PM
Grand Am: Saviour to American Motorsport. Thank you NASCAR and hallaluia!
Wait, wait, I wasn't ready... Ok, now I'm ready. Go on...
http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/162731_4.jpg
http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/129130_3.jpg
oddlycalm
02-07-05, 08:12 PM
Lighten the chassis, give me 900 hp and I'll show you a series that has three cars on the grid.
Oh wait, we already have one of those, the ALMS.I understand your point and it's probably just an age thing Travis. After spending a couple decades watching great drivers doing battle in powerful cars that also happened to look good in the Can Am and IMSA series, it's simply not possible for me to get even moderately interested in the Rolex. It's also not an either/or thing. I lost interest in ALMS whent the Panoz vs Audi battles and BMW GTR vs Porsche battle were ended.
To me it's like arguing that Waffle House and Shoney's serve good food just because it's the only sit-down restuarant food in many places in the in rural South. It's understandable that people that have never been anywhere else might think that, but it doesn't make it so.
oc
Now, according to my greatXtowhatever grand dad I'm supposed to rip out my eyes.
Sorry. That schiess still has a long way to go before it becomes elephant crap, let alone something akin to the 1967 BOAC 1000KM.
Try again when you earn another quarter.
oddlycalm
"I understand your point and it's probably just an age thing Travis. After spending a couple decades watching great drivers doing battle in powerful cars that also happened to look good in the Can Am and IMSA series, it's simply not possible for me to get even moderately interested in the Rolex. It's also not an either/or thing. I lost interest in ALMS whent the Panoz vs Audi battles and BMW GTR vs Porsche battle were ended."
Great Post, wish I could have been that respectful
PS - The 24 hrs. of Daytona was about as exciting as watching paint dry (IMO of course, your milage may vary) Oh yeah, I watched from 9pm to 11pm on Saturday. Eggciting stuff. I really liked all the incar from the road racing stalwart s brothers LaBontte (Monty, Bobby, TerryJoe). The whole thing was a NASCAR commercial :thumdown:
Golly Maynard, dat thangs got a Pointyack motor. I bet he's got a Harlan Sharp Rev Kit an everthin'. Wonder when Tony's coming out of the crapper, maybe he can a sign my diecasts?
Did they sell tickets to this race? Looked like at least three Win-a-Bago's full of Coors Light chuggin fans was about all that showed...... Great Show, what a World Class Spectacle :gomer: :gomer: :laugh:
Methanolandbrats
02-07-05, 10:49 PM
I understand your point and it's probably just an age thing Travis. After spending a couple decades watching great drivers doing battle in powerful cars that also happened to look good in the Can Am and IMSA series, it's simply not possible for me to get even moderately interested in the Rolex. It's also not an either/or thing. I lost interest in ALMS whent the Panoz vs Audi battles and BMW GTR vs Porsche battle were ended.
To me it's like arguing that Waffle House and Shoney's serve good food just because it's the only sit-down restuarant food in many places in the in rural South. It's understandable that people that have never been anywhere else might think that, but it doesn't make it so.
oc Yup. I spent my youth at RA watchin CanAm and later ISMA GTP. I watched the Rolex, there was some suspense, but no mechanical innovation or raw speed. It's ok if nothing else is going on, but compared to the real eras of sportscar racing it lacks.
Michaelhatesfans
02-08-05, 02:03 AM
I understand your point and it's probably just an age thing Travis. After spending a couple decades watching great drivers doing battle in powerful cars that also happened to look good in the Can Am and IMSA series, it's simply not possible for me to get even moderately interested in the Rolex.
You can eat chili and fart in my house anytime. :thumbup:
:cool:
chop456
02-08-05, 02:10 AM
Ditto Methanolandbrats and Oddlycalm.
Though I was a little young for early CanAm, I do own a movie about it. ;)
DjDrOmusic
02-08-05, 12:53 PM
I spent too many hours watching 917's and 312P's racing at Watkins Glen to accept NAS-AM as a credible series. Sorry, but just because they'll be at a few Champ Car events doesn't mean I HAVE to like them!
No, of course not. But why NOT do the partner-thing at RA? If it meant another shot at that great track for our guys AND a larger more diverse (?) crowd...why NOT? Let the people vote! Buy a ticket or DON'T. Go to see one race or BOTH! Guys, CHOP, I've seen you there...go for the race you want to see then grill a steak and get (more?) hammered during the other! :p I think some of you are showing your age with that "good old days" attitude. Heck, I've seen some incredible cars, drivers and races over the years too, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to return. (unless it's the BRIC weekends, I LOVE those, the good old days and some great old drivers, right in front of you!) I just think this is an idea that should work in Mexico and it COULD work at RA. Is it too high a "price" to pay to return to ChampCar's BEST track?
Railbird
02-08-05, 07:57 PM
How many fans would Grand Am bring to the show?
Hell I'll watch them but to think they are going to add much to any weekend crowd-wise is to ignore reality.
And a failure to exploit a trend that could lead to a mutually beneficial connection may be just plain ignorant. I have no idea how many more fans GA might draw, but being an RA vet I'd say A LOT more than Atlantics, F-BMW, Barber Dodge etc. Enough to make it profitable, to share the wealth? I don't know. Most grudge-holding ChampCar fans who dismiss the growing popularity of this "dumbed-down" sportscar series may be doing so at their own (and CC's?) peril. I also remember 240 mph laps and 1000hp Champcars, but I'm still watching. Please, I don't want to get involved in a tech/history argument, most of you'd kill me. All I'm doing is putting out an idea, with risk, that I HOPE is worth taking. I'm e-mailing Augie!
Railbird
02-08-05, 08:41 PM
Look Nismo, I'm the one planning on attending the Grand Am weekend at Mid Ohio and I'm the one who has suggestd staying on the good side of the 800lb gorilla.
Take your preacher BS to someone else.
DjDrOmusic
02-08-05, 09:00 PM
I'm with you Railbird, I might watch them, but I don't have to like them, and it is best to stay on the good side of the 800lb. gorilla!
How many fans would Grand Am bring to the show?
Hell I'll watch them but to think they are going to add much to any weekend crowd-wise is to ignore reality.
Just a guess but, wouldn't it bring in a more sponsorship $, TV$ ?
Railbird
02-08-05, 09:07 PM
Any sponsor $ would be theirs alone would be my guess.
But dealing with the France family could well open a few doors.
Just be careful
extramundane
02-08-05, 09:30 PM
Just a guess but, wouldn't it bring in a more sponsorship $, TV$ ?
NASCARRA would have to have fans & TV money in order to bring any. As for sponsorship, there's not as much there as they'd like you to think.
Methanolandbrats
02-08-05, 09:34 PM
Any sponsor $ would be theirs alone would be my guess.
But dealing with the France family could well open a few doors.
Just be careful France already owns oval racing and I see the GA deal as a way to subvert Champcar and try to gain control of road racing.
I've always wondered who those few hundred people are that show up at a typical GA race.
OK, we know there's Doc Austin and Sean, but who are these other people? Why are they there? Did the grass stop growing in their lawn? Isn't there a PBS documentary on 16th century English monetary systems on the TV? Did sleep become out of fashion all of a sudden? What is causing these folks to not be able to find anything else to do?
But dealing with the France family could well open a few doors.
Just be careful
Be very careful.
And they will be. The "Three Amigos" are very astute business people. I think a Champ Car/Grand American dual event will be beneficial to both parties. The fact that the France family is involved in GA indicates they believe there is a future for road racing.
George
Skater_36
02-09-05, 09:21 AM
The fact that the France family is involved in GA indicates they believe there is a future for road racing.
George
Only if they get to call the shots. If the France's were really interested in road racing then the 24 hours would be open to more classes of cars. The only road racing they are interested in is the kind that helps promote NASCAR products.
Geez, 'bird, wasn't aware I was preaching OR BSing. Didn't seem like it when I made the suggestion. :confused: Just wondering who might think it's a good idea. So, we can put you down for a "Maybe"? Have fun at MO! :)
Sean O'Gorman
02-09-05, 02:16 PM
I've always wondered who those few hundred people are that show up at a typical GA race.
OK, we know there's Doc Austin and Sean, but who are these other people? Why are they there? Did the grass stop growing in their lawn? Isn't there a PBS documentary on 16th century English monetary systems on the TV? Did sleep become out of fashion all of a sudden? What is causing these folks to not be able to find anything else to do?
They are the same people I see at every other event at Mid-Ohio. ALMS, Champ Car, vintage, SCCA, etc. road racing fans.
extramundane
02-09-05, 02:25 PM
Only if they get to call the shots. If the France's were really interested in road racing then the 24 hours would be open to more classes of cars. The only road racing they are interested in is the kind that helps promote NASCAR products.
Exactly. They noticed the increase in ALMS attendance, sponsorship, TV ratings, etc, and wanted to squash it before it got big enough to threaten their empire.
They're playing both sides of the open-wheel war for a reason: the longer they can drag it out, the better things are for them.
Sean O'Gorman
02-09-05, 02:27 PM
Exactly. They noticed the increase in ALMS attendance, sponsorship, TV ratings, etc, and wanted to squash it before it got big enough to threaten their empire.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You're kidding, right? How, in ANY way, has ALMS threatened to make a dent in NASCAR's popularity? Please do inform me, I'd really like to know.
Racing Truth
02-09-05, 06:50 PM
Exactly. They noticed the increase in ALMS attendance, sponsorship, TV ratings, etc, and wanted to squash it before it got big enough to threaten their empire.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
:laugh: :laugh: :rofl:
Oh yeah, NASCAR was really frightened about MIGHTY ALMS.
I guess you can read anything on the internet.
Fact is, the Frances read sportscar racing in America correctly. Panoz still hasn't.
extramundane
02-09-05, 10:53 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You're kidding, right? How, in ANY way, has ALMS threatened to make a dent in NASCAR's popularity? Please do inform me, I'd really like to know.
It hasn't yet, and that's the way the France family wants it. ALMS is THE ONLY non-NASCAR series that regularly gets network TV ratings of 1 or better. If you think that doesn't stick in the France family's collective craw, you're living in a dream world. They didn't create the DP class to "level the road racing playing field" - they created it to force competitors to choose between GARRA and ALMS, much like when TG created the first of the 'new' IRL specs.
Fact is, the Frances read sportscar racing in America correctly. Panoz still hasn't.
That must explain why certain ALMS races have greater attendance and TV viewership than the entire GARRA season, not to mention that whole ROI thing. The France family is subsidizing GARRA to a degree that makes TG's IRL payola look mild; let's see how long their "business model" lasts.
Sean O'Gorman
02-09-05, 11:07 PM
It hasn't yet, and that's the way the France family wants it. ALMS is THE ONLY non-NASCAR series that regularly gets network TV ratings of 1 or better. If you think that doesn't stick in the France family's collective craw, you're living in a dream world. They didn't create the DP class to "level the road racing playing field" - they created it to force competitors to choose between GARRA and ALMS, much like when TG created the first of the 'new' IRL specs.
Wow, a 1. So they have potentially, at most (but highly unlikely), 1/8th the fanbase of NASCAR. Of course, seeing as anything on network TV can get a 1, I don't see how that is a sign of huge growth. There are little or no "real" sponsors in ALMS, and it has been that way since before Grand-Am.
Besides, the majority of competitors that are choosing Grand-Am wouldn't be racing in ALMS if Grand-Am didn't exist. They'd simply stay home or race in some other series where there is a chance to be competitive.
That must explain why certain ALMS races have greater attendance and TV viewership than the entire GARRA season, not to mention that whole ROI thing. The France family is subsidizing GARRA to a degree that makes TG's IRL payola look mild; let's see how long their "business model" lasts.
:rolleyes:
Do you not understand the concept of how sports car racing works? For example, ALMS probably gets 6-10,000 people at Mid-Ohio, Grand-Am maybe 3-4,000. Neither comes close to justifying the costs required to sponsor a race car, and that goes for virtually every other race between the two series.
I'd like to see proof that Grand-Am is being heavily subsidized. They don't need many fans to have a profitable event (the number being thrown around is 3,000), and they've made the racing affordable enough that many privateers can run in the series.
Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. It is clear that you are, as usual, ignoring the reality of the situation, so why even bother?
extramundane
02-09-05, 11:12 PM
Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. It is clear that you are, as usual, ignoring the reality of the situation, so why even bother?
So sorry to have wasted your valuable time. Have fun at the next GARRA fan club meeting. Good luck filling a phone booth.
racer2c
02-09-05, 11:14 PM
It hasn't yet, and that's the way the France family wants it. ALMS is THE ONLY non-NASCAR series that regularly gets network TV ratings of 1 or better. If you think that doesn't stick in the France family's collective craw, you're living in a dream world. They didn't create the DP class to "level the road racing playing field" - they created it to force competitors to choose between GARRA and ALMS, much like when TG created the first of the 'new' IRL specs.
That must explain why certain ALMS races have greater attendance and TV viewership than the entire GARRA season, not to mention that whole ROI thing. The France family is subsidizing GARRA to a degree that makes TG's IRL payola look mild; let's see how long their "business model" lasts.
I'm with ya 100% extram , NASCAR (the Frances) with their world domination decree, will go to to no end to kill the competition. These jokers with their delusions of grandamdeur were the same jokers on 7G three years ago saying the ALMS was going to surpass CART. My how the teenage fanclubs cheer when the flag drops on a celebrity all star race.
Racing Truth
02-10-05, 02:51 PM
It hasn't yet, and that's the way the France family wants it. ALMS is THE ONLY non-NASCAR series that regularly gets network TV ratings of 1 or better. If you think that doesn't stick in the France family's collective craw, you're living in a dream world. They didn't create the DP class to "level the road racing playing field" - they created it to force competitors to choose between GARRA and ALMS, much like when TG created the first of the 'new' IRL specs.
That must explain why certain ALMS races have greater attendance and TV viewership than the entire GARRA season, not to mention that whole ROI thing. The France family is subsidizing GARRA to a degree that makes TG's IRL payola look mild; let's see how long their "business model" lasts.
And some say we're delusional. :rolleyes:
Sean called you a name in an earlier thread that probably went too far. But it is clear that you are not nearly as informed as you think you are.
devilmaster
02-10-05, 02:55 PM
Oh jeez. Another big long thread about yay/nay Grand-Am......
Silly me, I thought this forum had already done that topic to death....
Steve
extramundane
02-10-05, 09:38 PM
And some say we're delusional. :rolleyes:
Sean called you a name in an earlier thread that probably went too far. But it is clear that you are not nearly as informed as you think you are.
How charitable of you. :rolleyes:
If being an uninformed idiot means I'm not blind to the ulterior motives of the France family...
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