The St. Pete Disaster

[nrc]

It's important to note that Pook estimated St. Pete Sunday attendance at 35,000 which some internet pundents would be calling a disaster if St. Pete were an oval.

Contrary to popular myth, street courses are not a guarantee of instant throngs of people. Like any other event they need to be built from the ground up. The advantage that street and road courses have is that it's easier to create that looks and feels successful without pulling in 60,000 people the first time.

Keep in mind that CART lost a lot more money on their "success" at Miami than they did on their "disaster" at the paperclip in Chicago. It's all about presentation.

I don't know if anything could have saved the paperclip with the wing package CART ran, but Chip would have been much better off putting up fewer seats and making sure 40,000 people wanted to come back every year instead of pulling in 60k the first year and having everyone complaining about parking and food prices.

[CART2Day]

Originally posted by nrc

I don't know if anything could have saved the paperclip with the wing package CART ran, but Chip would have been much better off putting up fewer seats and making sure 40,000 people wanted to come back every year instead of pulling in 60k the first year and having everyone complaining about parking and food prices.


Chip was obviously all about himself anyway. If EARL wasnt running at Joliet you can bet he would have been pushing uncle tony tojoing the fray at CMS.

It is a shame. 2000 was promoted fairly well, yet allowed to drop off (pre-Pook of course).. No passing due to aero regs you can blame CART for for allowing a parade to ensure that people had no interest in coming back.

[CART 500]

I seen a T.V. interview over the weekend in St Pete with Chris Pook.He said they wanted to start out the first year with a medium sized crowd to prevent problems.I was there all three days and thought it was great.

[nrc]

Originally posted by CART 500
He said they wanted to start out the first year with a medium sized crowd to prevent problems.I was there all three days and thought it was great.

Right, that's the point. He said the same thing in Denver and Miami. You build an event from the ground up. Ganassi did the exact opposite with Chicago - big promotion, 60,000 plus people on Sunday the first year and many of them left complaining about poor access, parking and food prices.

It's fair to point out that Pook also whiffed on his first attempt at building an oval event in St. Louis. Access problems and poor, unfinished facilities started Gateway out on the wrong foot. But that wasn't entirely his fault since CART basically said if you want the event it has to be ready now.

Part of my point here is that people complain about oval crowds and claim the future is in street racing, but CART hasn't had a well promoted and presented oval race with a good product to support it in the U.S. for years.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by nrc
Ganassi did the exact opposite with Chicago - big promotion, 60,000 plus people on Sunday the first year and many of them left complaining about poor access, parking and food prices.

I seem to rarely see anymore the mention of the fact the stands actually shook, SIGNIFICANTLY, when everyone stood for the Star Spangled Banner. It felt like they may fall down. I really think that had much to do with it.

[RacinM3]

Anybody know how many people were at Long Beach for the first F5000 or the first F1 race? Let that guide you.

[RTKar]

Originally posted by nrc
It's important to note that Pook estimated St. Pete Sunday attendance at 35,000 which some internet pundents would be calling a disaster if St. Pete were an oval.

Contrary to popular myth, street courses are not a guarantee of instant throngs of people. Like any other event they need to be built from the ground up. The advantage that street and road courses have is that it's easier to create that looks and feels successful without pulling in 60,000 people the first time.



I almost posted something yesterday along these lines with Milwaukee RA and Mid-O in mind, races whose crowds all have been either at 35,000 or have exceeded 35,000 for years, yet there have been rumors of these tracks disappearing from CART's schedule. St Pete definitely has potential as a race venue-tourist destination for us snowbird race fans in February. I expect the crowds to grow their. The area looks inviting and the course is excellent. What I don't understand, is why we need courses like Houston, where the qualifying speeds were in the 90 mph range and the crowd was also 30,000 to 40,000, with what I see as little potential to grow beyond the current size. IMO Denver falls somewhere in between, it may have some tourist potential but the course wasn't that good. The point is, we can't just count on a large metropolitan area providing a decent crowd. I think we need a touristy setting and most importantly an interesting and challenging course that shows off the speed of the cars and drivers.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by nrc
Part of my point here is that people complain about oval crowds and claim the future is in street racing, but CART hasn't had a well promoted and presented oval race with a good product to support it in the U.S. for years.

I agree 100%.

[skidmarks]

Originally posted by Napoleon
I seem to rarely see anymore the mention of the fact the stands actually shook, SIGNIFICANTLY, when everyone stood for the Star Spangled Banner. It felt like they may fall down. I really think that had much to do with it.

I had that same thought, not just shook SWAYED! Couple that point with the fact when we were there for practice on Friday our section wasn't built yet. Didn't leave me very comfortable.

I had no problem with parking, or prices for beer (I drank enough to forget how much I paid for a hamburger)

[JLMannin]

Originally posted by Napoleon
I seem to rarely see anymore the mention of the fact the stands actually shook, SIGNIFICANTLY, when everyone stood for the Star Spangled Banner. It felt like they may fall down. I really think that had much to do with it.

I was in the infield for the first race at the paperclip, so I did not know about the swaying stands.

Anyone remember the walkway at Gateway the first year? Friday, the concrete looked great. On Saturday, when there was more foot traffic, there were fine cracks appearing. On Sunday, the cracks were much wider and the whole thing was swaying. Some of the beer drinkers thought they had drank too much! I remember saying that I wish I were drunk so that I would not feel the oscillations.

Gateway really torqued me off - I went to the first CART race at a partially complete track. It is worth noting that I did know this beforehand - the track did not pass itself off as complete. Parking was not convenient, and far less than half of the restrooms and concession stands were complete. Most of the infield was bare earth. My reward for supporting a partially completed facility? When the renewal form came out (and the track was now complete and had a truck race and a silver crown event), to get the choicest seats, or even the same seats I had the first year, I had to buy a season ticket. I passed and never went back.

[KLang]

If they are going for a bigger crowd next year they are going to need a bunch more grandstands. The section I was in was completly full with people standing in the isles.

[CART 500]

There is plenty of room to build more stands.This one will be around for a long time.

[skidmarks]

How about the ?methane? stacks you had to walk past from parking to the track at Gateway. :thumdown:

[pchall]

Originally posted by CART 500
There is plenty of room to build more stands.This one will be around for a long time.

According to Robin Miller:

"All 26,000 grandstand seats were occupied and another 14,000 general admission tickets and paddock passes were sold."

http://espn.go.com/rpm/cart/2003/0223/1513342.html