I'm sorry

[Spicoli]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.

[RusH]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.

there is nothing else to do

[trish]

They just brought out the french guy to bunch them all up again. :gomer:

[dando]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.
Itz crappy outside, no good college hoops games to watch (tho, I'm watching the lady Bucks in PIP), so I'm catching the race in between chasing the young 'un around (she's winning). Plus, I have a case of racing deprivation.

-Kevin

[RusH]

gotta admit, it`s a yawner so far. good thing fir those debris yellers :gomer:

[FCYTravis]

"Jaques Debris" strikes again! :saywhat:

Damn pathetic, but expected.

[cart7]

Ya bunch ah nancy boy street race loosers. :flame: This har's racin my friends, ya better believe it. :gomer:


Actually, I've been outside working on my new boat all day, WTF, it's 50 to go, did I miss a big one yet?

[pchall]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.

Well, the golf is keeping me awake.

[extramundane]

I'm surprised the NASCAR Lemmings haven't come around yet to tell us how these guys who can't seem to stop wrecking on pit road are the best drivers in the world...

[Ankf00]

I'll try to track down OGorman for you :D

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'm surprised the NASCAR Lemmings haven't come around yet to tell us how these guys who can't seem to stop wrecking on pit road are the best drivers in the world...

And I'm still waiting to hear the logic behind the statement that the NASCAR drivers did better than the Champ Car drivers at the Rolex becuase Champ Car drivers can't handle slower cars... :rolleyes:

Anyway I only saw a handful of laps today, I was busy indoor karting and picking up my new race tires for '05 season. :cool:

[RTKar]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.

I don't get it...lead most of the race with a dominant car but it really doesn't matter...they oughta just run 25 laps. That's really all they race anyway. The Bubba's all hate "The 24 car" so that makes it kinda cool, riles 'em all up for feudin' and such....

[Methanolandbrats]

An

Anyway I only saw a handful of laps today, I was busy indoor karting and picking up my new race tires for '05 season. :cool: What tires did you buy?

[Spicoli]

What tires did you buy?

I'll bet he got the round ones.
:gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

I'll bet he got the round ones.
:gomer: Maybe not if he got a deal on GrandAm scuffs :)

[NismoZ]

You just need to drink more.

[racermike]

Truthfully, I fell asleep around Lap 20 or so ...

Woke up to see the final 40 laps

[extramundane]

And I'm still waiting to hear the logic behind the statement that the NASCAR drivers did better than the Champ Car drivers at the Rolex becuase Champ Car drivers can't handle slower cars... :rolleyes:

Perhaps this will help:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hyperbole

[Jervis Tetch 1]

At least Gordon won. The one guy the F*****n' hillbillies love to hate. :p

[fourrunner]

but wtf is all the shizzy about this Nascar crap? I'm TRYING to watch, and its just boring and stoopid. And insulting.

If the Shoe Fits

I have a few friends who are NASCAR Fans ... and yes, in general they are boring, stupid and generally insulting while celebrating a NASCAR weekend.....

however by the third lap they're totally drunk so they have no idea how the race went anyway and somebody calls me to drive them home!

[Methanolandbrats]

At least Gordon won. The one guy the F*****n' hillbillies love to hate. :p :thumbup: :D

[IlliniRacer]

Tried watching it and it seemed as if someone was jamming needles into my brain. Then, I realized it was just DW and Larry Mac talking. Tried watching it with the sound down. . . Still didn't work.

Ended up watching lasting night's Supercross race :thumbup: . (Reed caught RC on the last lap.) and then watched "Grand Prix" which I TIVO'd awhile back. All in all, a good day of racing :thumbup:

[Jag_Warrior]

At least Gordon won. The one guy the F*****n' hillbillies love to hate. :p

Sure made my day. :cool:

[Brickman]

At least Gordon won. The one guy the F*****n' hillbillies love to hate. :p

Indeed.

Walking out of the track some dork was yelling on his cell phone about the queer that won the race and complaining about plate racing, complaining THIS year not last.

He was right about plate racing but wrong about everything else.

Glad the #8 "hillbilies" and bandwagoners walked out with tears in their eyes. ;)

[Sean O'Gorman]

What tires did you buy?

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_ecsta_v700.jpg

They were free courtesy of Kumho for some course working I did at a promotional event last summer. The rears are a whole inch wider than my previous set. :cool: Hopefully by the time I wear them out they'll have the V710s in my size. :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

nevermind

[CART T. Katz]

any winstonERRRRRRRRRRRnextel cup race with 8 or 20 involved in some sort of race-ending on track incident (preferably taking each other out) and 24 winning the race is a good race.

well, if 24 wins it's a good race anyway, anything to piss off the rubbins racin crowd. :gomer:

[chop456]

nevermind - not worth getting banned over.

Well, you'll never know unless you try. :D

[mueber]

On the way home listened to a little of the radio broadcast which was almost, dare I say it, professional.

I got home in time to watch the last 50 laps. How many yellows did they have during that period of time--five, six, ten? Watched the teevee with the sound off.

[Spicoli]

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_ecsta_v700.jpg

They were free courtesy of Kumho for some course working I did at a promotional event last summer. The rears are a whole inch wider than my previous set. :cool: Hopefully by the time I wear them out they'll have the V710s in my size. :thumbup:

"Knock knock"

"Who cares"



"No one"










:D

[Wheel-Nut]

^^^ :rofl:

[pchall]

Hmmm... is it the Kumhos that wear out really, really fast (faster than a Spice Girl's career fast) and the Hankooks that frequently blow out a sidewall (more frequently than Dick Cheney arteries), or the other way around?

[Sean O'Gorman]

The Kumhos are the ones that wear irregularly causing them to cord prematurely.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well, you'll never know unless you try. :D

Been there, done that. :D

[Methanolandbrats]

The Kumhos are the ones that wear irregularly causing them to cord prematurely. If you heat cycle them and then inflate them enough they won't blister. Underinflation kills em fast.

[Michaelhatesfans]

I was up all night with a stomach bug, my daughter joined me at 3:30, and then my son greeted the sunrise with the same thing. It was hell.

Still better than watching NASCAR, though. :)

[fourrunner]

I was up all night with a stomach bug, my daughter joined me at 3:30, and then my son greeted the sunrise with the same thing. It was hell.

Still better than watching NASCAR, though. :)

Hey Everyone we're going to watch NASCAR !

"Ah Death, where is thy sting! " ;)

[Railbird]

Not my favorite racing but judging by the corporate support and ratings/attendance numbers they have found solutions that escape the American openwheel organizations.

[racer2c]

Not my favorite racing but judging by the corporate support and ratings/attendance numbers they have found solutions that escape the American openwheel organizations.

Understatement of the year. (no offense)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Not my favorite racing but judging by the corporate support and ratings/attendance numbers they have found solutions that escape the American openwheel organizations.

:thumbup:

Champ Car can be popular too without "dumbing down"...

[racer2c]

:thumbup:

Champ Car can be popular too without "dumbing down"...

Champ Car shouldn't dumb down. They should actually refine up (lower weight, more hp).
They do need a global title sponsor that truly believes in the product and is willing to commit to a long term deal that allows the series to grow without walking the line of "we're here, for now".

I believe that a supportive title sponsor is the one thing that will make or break the CCWS. It needs to be done this year also. The bigger NASCAR gets the more potential title sponsors will find that they get more ROI out of sponsoring a single Cup car over the entire series of the CCWS. It needs to happen now.

The rise of NASCAR also reiterates the necessity of a global CCWS. Why compete with the IRL in picking up crumbs left by NASCAR (which soon there will be none) here in the US when they can hopefully go global and get fresh Argentinean, Brazilian, Mexican, German, British, Chinese revenue. I’d rather see F1 Lite with 50% of the races in the US, than no CCWS at all.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Champ Car shouldn't dumb down. They should actually refine up (lower weight, more hp).
They do need a global title sponsor that truly believes in the product and is willing to commit to a long term deal that allows the series to grow without walking the line of "we're here, for now".

I believe that a supportive title sponsor is the one thing that will make or break the CCWS. It needs to be done this year also. The bigger NASCAR gets the more potential title sponsors will find that they get more ROI out of sponsoring a single Cup car over the entire series of the CCWS. It needs to happen now.

The rise of NASCAR also reiterates the necessity of a global CCWS. Why compete with the IRL in picking up crumbs left by NASCAR (which soon there will be none) here in the US when they can hopefully go global and get fresh Argentinean, Brazilian, Mexican, German, British, Chinese revenue. I’d rather see F1 Lite with 50% of the races in the US, than no CCWS at all.

I couldn't disagree more. What does having a faster car accomplish? It is 1) more expensive and 2) less exciting to watch. Personally, I can't tell the difference between a car going 195 down the straightaway at Mid-Ohio, Road America ,or Cleveland and a car going 170-175 at the same track, but I sure as hell can tell the difference between a good race, and a parade where none of the cars pass because they are too fast for the track.

Champ Car doesn't have to compete with NASCAR or the irrelevant open wheel series for fans in this country, there are tons of potential fanbases who neither series has tapped into yet. F1 Lite will be expensive for all, and appealing for none.

[FCYTravis]

Especially if the series keeps running more street races. What's the point of spending $zillions on a car that can do 240mph if they're confined in 1.4 mile concrete canyons in which they can barely hit 170mph anyway? It almost makes sense to just run slightly-faster Atlantics at that point.

Technology for technology's sake darn near killed Champ Car once - we don't need to repeat that experiment.

[racer2c]

It's not a matter of top speed, it's a matter of quicker braking and quicker off the corner. Educate yourselves with some Kellner threads. Champ Car could benefit from being more road race thoroughbred. Currently we have an overweight Champ Car, which accommodates just a few ovals. Bah, lighten the car, increase the hp (which wouldn't cost "bazillions" to do and let em go. Who wants a bunched up open wheel series anyway? gomer: NASCAR has gotten to you two and Tony already has that line.

Sean, how would you 'tap' into those potential fans eh? The CCWS and the IRL can't seem to do it. Release the secret man! :

[racer2c]

...

Technology for technology's sake darn near killed Champ Car once - we don't need to repeat that experiment.

Explain that one. I darn don't understand it. :confused:

[FCYTravis]

Decrease the weight, I agree with, racer2c. Increase the HP? Why? They've got plenty as it is. 750 ultra-reliable, non-traction-controlled thoroughbreds under the cowling is enough to blow every series but F1 out of the water HP-wise. Why stress the motors any further? It may not cost bazillions, but it will certainly cost more in rebuilds - and with teams already scarce, we should be finding ways to lower costs, not increase them.

As for "bunched up," no, we don't want to see bunched up, we want to see passing, racing and something more than the current, pretty boring at times, ontrack product. Go back to the 90s to see what I'm talking about.

If you're putting together a wishlist for a future chassis, here's my ideas: Open up the tunnels and give the cars more undertray downforce. With the wings being so festooned as they are, passing is very difficult because as soon as you get behind another car your aero goes to ****. HP won't solve that - but aero tweaks will.

[FCYTravis]

Explain that one. I darn don't understand it. :confused:
What do you think happened in the early 2000s?

Factories poured money into the series, spending far beyond any rational ROI to develop technology faster than CART could police it - 900 hp no-boost superengines with traction control, electronic guidance (yes, read the C&D article, Penske was developing a GPS traction-speed control that would have automatically controlled the throttle at CART racetracks, so all Helio would have had to do is brake, shift and steer.)

Their massive budgets priced all the little teams out of the series and destroyed the racing - Anyone remember CART with traction control in 2002? It was so boring you could cry. Pathetic season. Funny, sounds like what they're doing to the IRL, don't it?

Then they decided to spend their yen elsewhere, and bailed, leaving the series in a lurch with no teams, no money and little hope. It's not far short of a miracle that CART survived these last two years.

It's quite fair to say that the factories killed CART with their overspending, just as they killed IMSA in the early 1990s. The series is STILL rebuilding from those years - and is STILL struggling to put together an 18-car grid. The LAST thing we need to do right now is in ANY way increase the cost of competing in Champ Car - as any new "technology" would do.

[Sean O'Gorman]

It's not a matter of top speed, it's a matter of quicker braking and quicker off the corner. Educate yourselves with some Kellner threads. Champ Car could benefit from being more road race thoroughbred. Currently we have an overweight Champ Car, which accommodates just a few ovals. Bah, lighten the car, increase the hp (which wouldn't cost "bazillions" to do and let em go. Who wants a bunched up open wheel series anyway? gomer: NASCAR has gotten to you two and Tony already has that line.

Sean, how would you 'tap' into those potential fans eh? The CCWS and the IRL can't seem to do it. Release the secret man! :

I still think they should slow down the cars, through making them harder to drive. They should be squirrely under breaking (to allow a smart thinking driver to find the right opportunity to squeeze by), and hard to get off the corners, so that same driver has to be light on the throttle in order to not ruin his run. Give them tiny brakes or an extra 100 lbs or little to no downforce or something like that.

And as for reaching the fans, I still think they need to find a way to make a connection at a level that allows the fan to identify with the series. International races and tiny fields of drivers who did not come from the Champ Car ladder system (assuming we even have one anymore) don't do anything to allow the fan to identify. Aside from focusing the series exclusively on the North American market, they should be working to increase fan interest at the karting and lower formula level just as much as they should at the Champ Car level. I've always thought a good idea would be a chain of Champ Car indoor karting centers, as it would be probably the only reasonable way to allow the fan to get a taste of racing from the participants view without throwing down $3500 on a 3-day racing school.

Support the fastest person at these tracks by putting them into a shifter kart in a Champ Car sponsored karting series, and then the fastest into a F-BMW or whatever the first step is, and so on. I think that if the fan saw that the drivers in the race cars were coming from racing they could watch, or :gasp: were drivers they could actually identify with, they would be alot more appealing.

Also, they still need a real image. All Champ Car's image is now is a shadow of the past, there is nothing new about it. Drifting, concerts, etc. only dilute the image more.

All just my opinion of course. ;)

[Ankf00]

squirrely under braking is half the reason F1 is such a cluster**** these days, the cars are far more unstable under braking than they used to be, how the hell are you supposed to pass someone and find an opportunity when you lack any and all stability? oh right, you don't...

[FCYTravis]

Ank, the last thing we want to have is F1 brakes. Their braking distances are like 100 feet. The shorter the braking zone, the harder it is to outbrake someone because the reaction times go up stratospherically. You hardly ever see competitive passing under braking in F1 because of this.

[Ankf00]

Ank, the last thing we want to have is F1 brakes. Their braking distances are like 100 feet. The shorter the braking zone, the harder it is to outbrake someone because the reaction times go up stratospherically. You hardly ever see competitive passing under braking in F1 because of this.
the problems only became insurmountable after the narrow cars and all the other changes that came with it, the carbon brakes have been around, the unstable cars with ****ty aero, narrow tracks, and grooved tires are what brought around the current problems. the reaction time isn't as much of a problem if the car isn't a jittery dart with wheels, as evidenced by f1 pre 98

[racer2c]

What do you think happened in the early 2000s?

Factories poured money into the series, spending far beyond any rational ROI to develop technology faster than CART could police it - 900 hp no-boost superengines with traction control, electronic guidance (yes, read the C&D article, Penske was developing a GPS traction-speed control that would have automatically controlled the throttle at CART racetracks, so all Helio would have had to do is brake, shift and steer.)

Their massive budgets priced all the little teams out of the series and destroyed the racing - Anyone remember CART with traction control in 2002? It was so boring you could cry. Pathetic season. Funny, sounds like what they're doing to the IRL, don't it?

Then they decided to spend their yen elsewhere, and bailed, leaving the series in a lurch with no teams, no money and little hope. It's not far short of a miracle that CART survived these last two years.

It's quite fair to say that the factories killed CART with their overspending, just as they killed IMSA in the early 1990s. The series is STILL rebuilding from those years - and is STILL struggling to put together an 18-car grid. The LAST thing we need to do right now is in ANY way increase the cost of competing in Champ Car - as any new "technology" would do.

The technology that Honda and Toyota brought to CART is hardly the reason of blame for the manufacturer stranglehold on the series. Traction control was done electronically and removing it does not render the current Champ Car lacking in technology.
Anyway, I didn't say anything about requiring expensive electronic technology or F1 style brakes/transmissions. There's a cheap and easy way to get horsepower out of a Champ Car...more boost. A simple 100hp increase, pushing it up to 850hp, by way of more boost and you have a much 'quicker' car that is more difficult to drive. That would eliminate the push2pass which really does nothing from a fans view.
Sorry Sean, I don't think adding weight, or reducing horsepower is the answer. Champ Cars already look a bit sluggish on the tighter street courses, thus my comments along these lines. Same with reducing the brake size. I want the cars driving in deeper, not braking half way through a straight.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Champ Cars already look a bit sluggish on the tighter street courses, thus my comments along these lines.

Well there is the problem!

[Spicoli]

[thread HiJack complete]

:D

[racer2c]

Well there is the problem!

A nessicary evil. No street courses, no Champ Car.

Hey spicoli..."I'm sorry". :)

[pchall]

Would higher downforce with less weight and more horsepower be an acceptable compromise for "youse guys"?

:ducks:

[FCYTravis]

Pushing it to 850 also means the engines blow more often, racer2c.

If the series/Cosworth is willing to eat those costs, meaning no increase at all in what the teams are currently paying, even if the engines blow every week, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'm just very very opposed to anything that increases the cost of Champ Car racing from a team standpoint - when we're struggling to field 18 cars to begin with, the absolute last thing we should be doing is making the series more expensive to compete in.

[Ankf00]

I like Malamutes. They're friendly runts.

[racer2c]

Pushing it to 850 also means the engines blow more often, racer2c.

If the series/Cosworth is willing to eat those costs, meaning no increase at all in what the teams are currently paying, even if the engines blow every week, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'm just very very opposed to anything that increases the cost of Champ Car racing from a team standpoint - when we're struggling to field 18 cars to begin with, the absolute last thing we should be doing is making the series more expensive to compete in.

You have a valid point/concern, but seeing as how the Cosworths are practically bullit proof at 750hp with 50hp available via the push 2 pass, I don't think another 50hp would turn them all into grenades.

[FTG]

I like Malamutes. They're friendly runts.

Golden retrievers are very friendly. IMO malamutes are too big.

[Ankf00]

Golden retrievers are very friendly. IMO malamutes are too big.

bah. wus. you're just jealous of their steely good looks and fuzzy tail. :p

but they both beat cats.

cats are the OU of the animal world. :mad:

[CART License]

http://www.marshallcanyon.com/images/gizonputer.jpg
Now were talking

[Methanolandbrats]

Looks like Liberace's Dog

[Spicoli]

http://www.marshallcanyon.com/images/gizonputer.jpg
Now were talking

nice cat.

[pchall]

nice cat.
LOL... looks like a designer dog schnoodle...

[Ankf00]

Bonified cat hunter.
http://www.srsh.be/images-shared/malamute.jpg

[2DB]

Bonified cat hunter.
Now that is a handsom guy!

Kelvis

[Ankf00]

No, seriously, he'd hunt cats if he could. He rules!

"Alaskan Malamutes possess a strong "prey drive" which is part of the hunting instinct. If it moves or squeals, a mal will chase it - sometimes with dangerous consequences.
Malamutes have been known to kill rabbits, squirrels & birds, as well as neighborhood cats. Mals only do well with cats when they have been raised with them and have also been taught to control their natural instincts."

:D

[Michaelhatesfans]

"...Mals only do well with cats when they have been raised with them and have also been taught to control their natural instincts."

:D
Why would you want to do that?




(runs from cat lovers)

[gjc2]

sorry

[Al Czervik]

http://www.marshallcanyon.com/images/gizonputer.jpg
Now were talking

And with a well placed handle, can double as a mop.
<ducks at incoming objects>

[pchall]

Mals only do well with cats when they have been raised with them and have also been taught to control their natural instincts."

:D


Did you grow up at Rice or what?

[devilmaster]

http://www.marshallcanyon.com/images/gizonputer.jpg
Now were talking

I take it the wind-up spool is on the other side of the toy? ;)

Steve

[cart7]

It's gonna take GPS to get this thread back on topic. :D

[Michaelhatesfans]

http://www.marshallcanyon.com/images/gizonputer.jpg

I always knew those webcams would be a ripoff. Thank god I didn't give them my credit card. Sorority girls my ass. :thumdown:

[Ankf00]

Did you grow up at Rice or what?
perhaps :D

'woof'
http://www.malamute.it/aska2.jpghttp://www.malamute.it/immagini/aska4.JPG