View Full Version : Cleveland Support Races...
Nice addition to the race weekend:
http://www.world-challenge.com./news/05press18.html
Good news for Cleveland! :thumbup:
The event will replace the Aug. 19-21 race weekend at Road America on both series’ schedules.
Wonder what that does to the RA ALMS weekend?
FCYTravis
03-01-05, 04:37 PM
Well, that weekend was looking crowded, what with Trans-Am and Toyota Atlantics showing up. This swap makes sense.
I would guess that some of the World Challenge teams and drivers are a little peeved about not racing at Road America, though.
Sean O'Gorman
03-01-05, 05:10 PM
Well, that weekend was looking crowded, what with Trans-Am and Toyota Atlantics showing up. This swap makes sense.
Yeah, those two series must be taking up about 10 paddock spots!
Anyway, I obviously like this swap. I get to see two consecutive World Challenge races. :)
:thumbup:
Dirty Sanchez
03-01-05, 05:19 PM
Road America fans shafted again. Awesome :saywhat:
FCYTravis
03-01-05, 06:10 PM
According to posts by SCCA President and CEO Steve Johnson on the official SCCA Pro Racing forum, the schedule presented by Road America was unacceptable due to the number of series that the track attempted to pack into the weekend. Not enough track time = no race.
Bull, I've seen 500 cars there before and they all got track /race time.
i think this is fantastic for SWC...they're racing with CC at two of the best courses for passing. Should make for an enjoyable weekend for the fans. :thumbup:
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 01:29 AM
Um, Nismo, an SCCA June Sprints weekend is nothing even remotely resembling a professional road racing event.
Do the freakin' math. When the ALMS headliner boys get two to three hours of track time by themselves each day, there's simply not enough track time left to run half a jillion other support races.
Per day:
2h30m ALMS
40m WCGT
40m WCTC
1h Trans-Am?
1h Toyota Atlantics?
1h FFZetec?
1h30m Star Mazda
1h lunch
Do the freaking math. That's nine hours and we haven't even counted the ten-minute breaks between every session. You want the Zetecs to install headlights?
Winston Wolfe
03-02-05, 01:49 AM
Bull, I've seen 500 cars there before and they all got track /race time.
Dood, those were 1\24th scale cars and they were powered by tiny gas engines or electric motors and were RC cars...
Time to wake up and smell the coffee....:rolleyes:
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 10:35 AM
we don't get champ car but we get their lame support series? meh. I'd rather they walked and let us have world challenge instead.
Methanolandbrats
03-02-05, 10:43 AM
we don't get champ car but we get their lame support series? meh. I'd rather they walked and let us have world challenge instead. Starting to look like Milw, USGP and BRIC will do it for me.
Lights on the Zetecs? Nah, send THEM to Cleveland...and those weenie Mazdas, too! THEN I believe the math works! ;)
TKGAngel
03-02-05, 01:19 PM
Yeah, those two series must be taking up about 10 paddock spots!
Anyway, I obviously like this swap. I get to see two consecutive World Challenge races. :)
:thumbup:
So does this mean that at Cleveland there will be no Atlantics and/or TransAm, but instead there will be the World Challenge races? Or are these in addition to the Atlantics and TransAm?
Zetecs are tentatively scheduled for Cleveland.
Sean O'Gorman
03-02-05, 02:11 PM
So does this mean that at Cleveland there will be no Atlantics and/or TransAm, but instead there will be the World Challenge races? Or are these in addition to the Atlantics and TransAm?
Right now it is Champ Car, Trans-Am, Toyota Atlantic, World Challenge GT, World Challenge Touring, and I've heard rumors that F2000 will be on the schedule also. F2000 does doubleheaders, so they count as two races, meaning there would be seven races total that weekend.
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 04:13 PM
As Easy noted, Cleveland is on the 2005 FFZetec schedule for a double-header.
www.cooperseries.com
As Easy noted, Cleveland is on the 2005 FFZetec schedule for a double-header.
www.cooperseries.com
Wouldn't that make Cleveland just as busy as Road America?
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 05:18 PM
No. The Champ Cars take less track time than ALMS and there's one less series.
Average practice day:
2h CCWS
45m WCTC
45m WCGT
1h FFZetec?
1h Trans-Am
1h Toyota Atlantics
That's a little over six hours. Throw in lunch and you're still well under the eight-hour mark.
On the subject of Cleveland, they're also selling on-site parking now. Smart move. It's a revenue generator that some folks will be happy to pay for.
Methanolandbrats
03-03-05, 09:38 AM
No. The Champ Cars take less track time than ALMS and there's one less series.
Average practice day:
2h CCWS
45m WCTC
45m WCGT
1h FFZetec?
1h Trans-Am
1h Toyota Atlantics
That's a little over six hours. Throw in lunch and you're still well under the eight-hour mark. Gotta allow for crashing, blowing up, track cleaning, yellows, reds....all that stuff takes away a lot of green time.
Just did some freakin' math...looks like the ALMS at RA will have a SIX hr. work day now. They can handle THAT! :) Sorry for being so flippant. I was just looking for a way to voice my displeasure at losing the WC races. Sounds like they listened to my FF suggestion, though! :D Of course I could just drive over to Cleveland...but now I'd have to PAY TO PARK! :p
ChampCar announcement (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=8727)
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 11:06 AM
F**** no.
:shakehead
:flame: :flame: :flame:
F**** no.
:shakehead
:flame: :flame: :flame:
What's the problem Sean?
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 12:18 PM
Why on earth do they have to invite those damn drifters to every event? Hey, why not bring the IRL along too? Drifting is a bigger threat to Champ Car than the IRL, so I don't see the problem. :rolleyes:
It is kind of hard to build your brand when you invite your biggest competitors to showcase their product, I just hope Champ Car doesn't learn this the hard way.
How on earth is drifting a threat to ChampCar?
I'm kind of curious to know how drifting is going to steal fans too.
If you don't want to see one of the support events, there's plenty of other things going on.
I think it is more likely ChampCar might acquire a few new fans.
Methanolandbrats
03-03-05, 12:41 PM
Drifting crowd buys tickets, lots of those youngsters own 4 cyl imports, some with turbos. Drifting crowd goes for drifting, enjoys the rest and begins to follow series. Champcar changes to 4cyl turbo engine formula to the delight of old timers and new fans alike. :thumbup:
Champcar changes to 4cyl turbo engine formula to the delight of old timers and new fans alike.
Boo!
They invited the drifters so Cosworth can start selling 'em stuff. Expect to see Lola rear wings and Cosworth turbos on a Civic or Focus near you. :p
Slightly OT, but I'm looking for Cleveland tix for Sun only (Reds/Tribe Sat night, race Sun). Looks like they are selling one-day tix for $35/$40. The one-day seats are for the higher number rows (21-25 for grandstand E). Are these rows near the top or bottom of the stands?
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
03-03-05, 02:23 PM
Why on earth do they have to invite those damn drifters to every event? Hey, why not bring the IRL along too? Drifting is a bigger threat to Champ Car than the IRL, so I don't see the problem. :rolleyes:
It is kind of hard to build your brand when you invite your biggest competitors to showcase their product, I just hope Champ Car doesn't learn this the hard way.
I wouldn't make a big deal of it. CCWS needs to attract people who are motorsports fans but not of the mind that motorsports = NASCAR. That doesn't leave a lot, but within that market drifting is perhaps the only growing part.
So long as drifting fans are not people I don't want to share a grandstand with, I don't care. The more the merrier.
As far as "inviting our competition to join us", if drifting events at champcar races causes Honda and Toyota to sell more cars then that's good for champcar and bad for the IRL. I just don't want T and H controlling my favorite sport and I don't want them propping up a failed competitive alternative obsessed with destroying my favorite sport.
Cleveland is going to be fun this year. That's a lot of racing. I better get my tickets ordered.
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 03:38 PM
Or, more likely, drifting fans watch Champ Cars, think to themselves "these cars suck y0, they dont get siiiiidewayzszsz" and then don't tune in to another race. Meanwhile drifting can steal some of Champ Car's fans who are sick of watching parades.
Sean, do you also think there shouldn't be figure skaters in between periods of hockey games because the fans will say, "these skaters suck y0, they dont do spinzszsz."
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 04:08 PM
If there was a significant chance of crossover between the two, then yes, I would be against it.
The only thing that the two scenarios have in common is that drifting and figure skating are for sissies
If there was a significant chance of crossover between the two, then yes, I would be against it.
The only thing that the two scenarios have in common is that drifting and figure skating are for sissies
I thought you were all in favor of participant driven motorsports. Drifting provides an outlet for drivers who are slow, but can be entertaining the process.
It's all about providing entertainment value for people going to the races. I really doubt that there are a lot of prospective champ car fans who are going to be lost to drifting. If you don't "get" champ car racing then you're just not going to be a fan. If you do, then you're not going to be drawn away by something like drifting.
FCYTravis
03-03-05, 04:51 PM
I enjoy participant-driven motorsports as well, but drifting isn't a "sport" any more than concours d'elegance is a sport.
Showing off your car is fine and dandy, but intentionally setting up your car to be as unstable as possible and then creating big clouds of tire smoke is a show, not a sport.
I enjoy participant-driven motorsports as well, but drifting isn't a "sport" any more than concours d'elegance is a sport.
Showing off your car is fine and dandy, but intentionally setting up your car to be as unstable as possible and then creating big clouds of tire smoke is a show, not a sport.
But then so is setting up your car to have so much drag and downforce that you're flat footed all the way around a track. :)
racer2c
03-03-05, 05:28 PM
More 'drifters' will be drawn to Champ Car than Champ Car fans drawn to drifting. No if, ands or buts about it.
Why on earth do they have to invite those damn drifters to every event? Hey, why not bring the IRL along too? Drifting is a bigger threat to Champ Car than the IRL, so I don't see the problem. :rolleyes:
It is kind of hard to build your brand when you invite your biggest competitors to showcase their product, I just hope Champ Car doesn't learn this the hard way.
Hey, Sean? Just how far removed from Drifting are you in a Mister Two on Kuhmos?
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 07:21 PM
I thought you were all in favor of participant driven motorsports. Drifting provides an outlet for drivers who are slow, but can be entertaining the process.
Drifting isn't about the competitor it is about the show, which is why they actually promote and have a highly desired fanbase. Maybe Champ Car could learn a thing or two from them and apply it to their promotion instead of having to leech off of them for track activities.
But then so is setting up your car to have so much drag and downforce that you're flat footed all the way around a track.
Which road racing series does that?
More 'drifters' will be drawn to Champ Car than Champ Car fans drawn to drifting. No if, ands or buts about it.
How do you figure? Go find a forum of drifting fans and ask them about Champ Car and they will tell you how dumb "grip" racing is. :rolleyes: Meanwhile, people who should know better (like this place) are apparently accepting this garbage.
Hey, Sean? Just how far removed from Drifting are you in a Mister Two on Kuhmos?
Very far. When I compete it is to go as fast as possible, not to get sidewayz and make a spectacle of myself going slow. It isn't that hard to drift, which is why everyone uses a front engined RWD car, and no mid-engined cars like mine.
I can't wait until the biggest problem ChampCar faces is competition from drifting.
racer2c
03-03-05, 10:39 PM
How do you figure? Go find a forum of drifting fans and ask them about Champ Car and they will tell you how dumb "grip" racing is. :rolleyes: Meanwhile, people who should know better (like this place) are apparently accepting this garbage.
Who's talking about the Internet drifting fans? The issue is about the drifting event luring Champ Car fans away from the headline event in Cleveland. First Sean, the drifting event will be hardly more than a 'exhibition'. Second, we all agree that drifting sucks and isn’t' a sport.
There is one thing I'm sure of, if by chance any drifting fans buy a weekend pass and say "what the heck I'll stick around to see what the Champ Cars are about", will walk away wanting to see another Champ Car race rather than a Champ Car fan seeing the drifting event and saying "Forget next years Cleveland tickets dear, we're going to the drifting nationals (sic)!”
Now a 36 year old (me) is a geezer to you, but I have a few close friends at work who are your age and are into the Honda ricer bling thang who are always blown away by the performance stats of a Champ Car when I talk to them about it. They don't really get the racing (too short of an attention span for a two hour race. :shakehead ) , but they love the technology and performance and they think drifting is a joke too.
The day drifting threatens the existence of Champ Car or steals away their fan is the day I buy my first NASCAR hat.
No worries, relax.
Sean O'Gorman
03-03-05, 10:43 PM
Who's talking about the Internet drifting fans? The issue is about the drifting event luring Champ Car fans away from the headline event in Cleveland. First Sean, the drifting event will be hardly more than a 'exhibition'. Second, we all agree that drifting sucks and isn’t' a sport.
There is one thing I'm sure of, if by chance any drifting fans buy a weekend pass and say "what the heck I'll stick around to see what the Champ Cars are about", will walk away wanting to see another Champ Car race rather than a Champ Car fan seeing the drifting event and saying "Forget next years Cleveland tickets dear, we're going to the drifting nationals (sic)!”
Now a 36 year old (me) is a geezer to you, but I have a few close friends at work who are your age and are into the Honda ricer bling thang who are always blown away by the performance stats of a Champ Car when I talk to them about it. They don't really get the racing (too short of an attention span for a two hour race. :shakehead ) , but they love the technology and performance and they think drifting is a joke too.
The day drifting threatens the existence of Champ Car or steals away their fan is the day I buy my first NASCAR hat.
No worries, relax.
Ok, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit, but drifting is still wackasaurus rex and Champ Car should be attempting to destroy it, not embrace it.
Andrew Longman
03-04-05, 10:29 AM
Ok, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit, but drifting is still wackasaurus rex and Champ Car should be attempting to destroy it, not embrace it.
You may be right, but somehow I just don't buy it.
1 1/2 years ago I hadn't even heard of it. I read an article in Racer about it and could even figure out what it was about. It made no sense to me. I suppose it is as much of a "sport" as figure skating, snow boarding and other "judged" sports and if people are paying to see it, then it is in competition for discretionary entertainment dollars. And maybe I see greater attraction to Champ cars than I should.
But in the end I just don't think this is much different from having a skateboard competition there to attract a younger crowd. They'll come and some of them will be blown away by Champ car performance. The more casual fans will be amused by a show of smoke and rubber of drifting, but they came first and foremost for the race. Its just something like flyovers, concerts and fireworks that help round out the experience.
What does drifting bring to Champ car? Hot. Asian. Models.
http://www.carandmodel.com/gallery_preview/d1gp_drift_grand_prix_20050227/aaa
Ok, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit, but drifting is still wackasaurus rex and Champ Car should be attempting to destroy it, not embrace it.
paxil, dude.
Don Quixote
03-04-05, 02:38 PM
There is major coin in drifting.
http://www.carandmodel.com/albums_preview/d1gp_drift_grand_prix_20050227/aac.sized.jpg
Edit: oh well, the picture was supposed to show a guy holding up a 1st place check for $5,000. You get the idea
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