View Full Version : Ferrari Denies Minardi!
racer2c
03-02-05, 11:33 AM
In their 'home' race even.
Nice. Someone slap that little gnome of a Todt.
Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15441/)
Methanolandbrats
03-02-05, 11:36 AM
In their 'home' race even.
Nice. Someone slap that little gnome of a Todt.
Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15441/) Someone will and his name is Bernie...this will be fixed.
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 11:37 AM
good call :thumbup:
illegal cars should not be allowed to race... even uncompetitive ones.
Why were the other teams able to abide by the rules?
If you ain't got the coin, you don't get to ride the drugstore pony. 9 other teams were willing and able to meet the requirments. If Stoddart can't manage to play by the rules then what keeps this same thing from happening to 2 or 3 teams next year? Why let something like this get started?
This is F1 we are talking about, not the welfare line.
good call :thumbup:
illegal cars should not be allowed to race... even uncompetitive ones.
Right. Do you think that anybody would allow Ferrari, Williams, BAR, Toyota, the same lattitude? No.
racer2c
03-02-05, 11:55 AM
good call :thumbup:
illegal cars should not be allowed to race... even uncompetitive ones.
So the nine team owners he gave their Ok are worng too? It's only an illegal car if the team owners say it is and Ferrari is the only one who is saying it. I think is stinks like crap-us.
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 12:03 PM
You're mistaken. Ferrari isn't saying that the car is illegal... Minardi is. They are asking for a special dispensation allowing them to race an illegal car. Legality of the car is not at issue here.
The other teams' decision to support Minardi is just as political as Ferrari's decision not to support them. As a matter of principle, however (independent of the political landscape)... an illegal car should not be allowed to race.
Forza Lancia
03-02-05, 12:07 PM
I just started reading "The Piranha Club," about the (mostly vicious) inner-workings of Formula One politics. This is another example. As long as Paul Stoddard has plans to introduce his 2005 car after a few races, I don't see how it hurts anyone to let them race. It's not as if racing last year's Minardi is going to put Albers or Freisacher in the points.
racer2c
03-02-05, 12:16 PM
You're mistaken. Ferrari isn't saying that the car is illegal... Minardi is. They are asking for a special dispensation allowing them to race an illegal car. Legality of the car is not at issue here.
The other teams' decision to support Minardi is just as political as Ferrari's decision not to support them. As a matter of principle, however (independent of the political landscape)... an illegal car should not be allowed to race.
Mistaken about what?
Also, how can you say that the issue is that Minardi is asking to race an illegal car and then you very next sentence you say that the legality of the car isn't the issue. You must be a lawyer.
The politics of the matter stem from the potential 'split'. Again, the rules clearly state that in order to run a previous years car, you need all teams to approve it. All but one did so the car isn't racing. Politics aside, this is Minardi, not exactly a threat to the red baron. Two less backmarker to get in his way though. If Ferrari had it their way, it's be a four team show. Maybe less.
No one is gaining anything by this, and the losers are the fans. Maybe Todt is looking to run the IRL or the NHL in the future.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
In my opinion, the ideal solution would be to allow Minardi to race the car but make them ineligible for points.
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 12:31 PM
:laugh:
I guess I'll word it differently for you. The car is illegal. Not because Ferrari is saying it is... but because it is. Minardi are saying it is illegal. So, imo, that is not the issue... the issue is whether or not they will be allowed to compete outside the rules.
Get it yet?
Ron Dennis is the biggest ****er in the paddock. If he did not have anything to gain by supporting Minardi there is no way he'd support a team running an illegal car. Its political on both sides.
I would support Rob's suggestion.
racer2c
03-02-05, 01:04 PM
:laugh:
I guess I'll word it differently for you. The car is illegal. Not because Ferrari is saying it is... but because it is. Minardi are saying it is illegal. So, imo, that is not the issue... the issue is whether or not they will be allowed to compete outside the rules.
Get it yet?
Ron Dennis is the biggest ****er in the paddock. If he did not have anything to gain by supporting Minardi there is no way he'd support a team running an illegal car. Its political on both sides.
I would support Rob's suggestion.
I 'get' this....
Crapus - illegal cars should not be allowed to race... even uncompetitive ones.
But now you're saying that Minardi shouldn't be allowed to race because Ron Dennis is the biggest ****er in the paddock. You're making more and more sense with each post. Bravo.
The point to the whole thread is that all but one team approved the request were that one team just happens to be Ferrari (Jean Todt).
FFerrari.
this is just ridiculous, minardi's a threat to no one, and more cars == better for the fans, how the f*** is this an issue? and save the preaching, todt's just a big a f***** as dennis is
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 01:14 PM
But now you're saying that Minardi shouldn't be allowed to race because Ron Dennis is the biggest ****er in the paddock. You're making more and more sense with each post. Bravo.
The point to the whole thread is that all but one team approved the request were that one team just happens to be Ferrari (Jean Todt).
FFerrari.your reading comprehension is t3h suck. I didn't say that at all.
B3RACER1a
03-02-05, 01:21 PM
The rules are the rules. If your car doesnt fit within these rules, it shouldnt even be on the track till it is within spec. It's that simple. Why should Ferrari give them a break? Everyone else built their cars within spec. I can understand Minardi's problem, but you just cant let someone in there without a proper car. Once one team gets away with it, you've set a precident.
Even running a car on the track that isnt elligible for points is bogus too. Not only can the Minardi's mess with the race, but what if something bad happens like a crash, fire, corner marshal incident....etc.
This is sounding too much like NASCAR to control the 'parity' of the field. One car is slow because its a piece of crap. Someone up high complains, and NASCAR lets them pull the fenders out or something instead of the company making a better car.
This is purely just a bad break for Minardi. They got a bad engine deal with Ford left, so they got stuck on this years' car. So instead of sucking it up, Minardi tries to smear on Ferrari to point the balme to them.
How do you think Minardi's sponsers feel? They cant build a car, then blame their problems on someone else.
Glad Ferrari shot them down. :thumbup:
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 01:24 PM
dude got his bluff called.
for weeks now: "we're gonna take this to the courts if we have to"
today: "on second thought, maybe we won't"
stoddart wants to swim with the sharks... but only if they promise not to bite.
In my opinion, the ideal solution would be to allow Minardi to race the car but make them ineligible for points.
Doesn't matter now. If Minardi gets in they'll crash out Schumi and Rubens.
Wheel-Nut
03-02-05, 01:39 PM
So. . . . . I should take Minardi off of my F1 Fantasy lists?? :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
03-02-05, 01:40 PM
So. . . . . I should take Minardi off of my F1 Fantasy lists?? :gomer: Don't do that.......Bernie will work a way to let them race after he fines them a huge sum and the bank transfer has been made :laugh:
Todt is blowing smoke. At the 11th hour they will reach a compromise and the Minardis will be allowed to stink up the back of the F1 grid.
racer2c
03-02-05, 01:58 PM
Todt is blowing smoke. At the 11th hour they will reach a compromise and the Minardis will be allowed to stink up the back of the F1 grid.
Yep.
Dr. Corkski
03-02-05, 02:01 PM
For all the time and effort Stoddart wastes bitching he could have easily built a car that with bigger wings and detuned his Cosworths to last 2 weekends.
devilmaster
03-02-05, 02:09 PM
Doesn't matter now. If Minardi gets in they'll crash out Schumi and Rubens.
That would be an interesting start to the season.....
racer2c
03-02-05, 02:09 PM
your reading comprehension is t3h suck. I didn't say that at all.
p0wd.
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 02:12 PM
... detuned his Cosworths to last 2 weekends.not even an issue. they start from the back anyway. they could put in fresh engines before every session if they wanted.
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 02:13 PM
p0wd.only one getting owned here is stoddart :thumbup:
jonovision_man
03-02-05, 04:12 PM
Jordan was screwed when Ford pulled out, had to accomidate the Toyota engine in their chassis, went through a mid-off-season sale to Midland...
Legal car for Australia.
Jaguar didn't know if there would even be a team at the end of the season, gets bailed out mid-off-season.
Legal car for Australia.
Minardi keeps the same engines and owners, but for them and only them the rules are too late? C'mon. Stoddart gambled that everyone would be "awww shucks, poor Minardi", now he finds himself in a bind. Oh well. Shut the garage doors on the team and don't open them until he has a legal car to compete with.
Maybe this will be the final nail that pushes that whiner out of the sport. Hope it doesn't take the team out in the process.
jono
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 04:17 PM
Shut the doors on the whole lot of 'em, I say, F1 ceased to be a relevant world motorsport about the time Bernie decided his league needed grooves in the tires because the cars were going too fast.
F1 is a check-writing exercise today. Might as well just dispense with the whole bothersome racing bit, and just compare bank account sizes. Schumacher can take home the trophy without even breaking a sweat.
/me is eagerly anticipating the GPWC split so he can watch yet another bunch of overfinanced, overpaid whiners implode.
racer2c
03-02-05, 04:22 PM
Stoddart gambled that everyone would be "awww shucks, poor Minardi", now he finds himself in a bind.
All but one did.
Maybe this will be the final nail that pushes that whiner out of the sport. Hope it doesn't take the team out in the process.
I agree, I'd like to see F1 whittled down to the best ten cars. Uber-elite racing series for the uber-elitist fans. They should limit the fans too. Make people take a test on F1 history, past and present. Only the top 1000 get in.
I wonder how hard it would have been for Minardi to get Toyota engine? :gomer:
jonovision_man
03-02-05, 04:26 PM
All but one did.
Yup. See "the rest of the teams plus the GPWC vs. Ferrari, Bernie and the FIA" for more details.
I agree, I'd like to see F1 whittled down to the best ten cars. Uber-elite racing series for the uber-elitist fans. They should limit the fans too. Make people take a test on F1 history, past and present. Only the top 1000 get in.
I wonder how hard it would have been for Minardi to get Toyota engine? :gomer:
It's F1, it wasn't cheap when Stoddart bought the team, it ain't cheap now. It's not elitist to point out that his expectations are out of whack with what he signed on for.
jono
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 04:41 PM
Perhaps, but it's never ever ever been as expensive as it is now.
Maybe you want to see "only the cars that can win" on the grid, but if that's the case, then just kick everyone except Ferrari out, because 95 percent of the time they're the only cars that can win, and five percent is just a rounding error.
"Oh, and they're off, it's Schumacher vs. Barrichello, Rubens holds a slight edge going into Turn 1 OH BUT NOW HE BACKS OFF, team orders must be the case and Schumacher leads the race!"
How exciting. :shakehead
I remember the days when there were 26 cars and DNPQs and wanker teams that had no hope but showed up for the fun of it and you had the occasional flashes of brilliance tempered by the more common brilliant flashes of fire as their cars became one with the tire walls or gravel traps or leaders...
F1 was interesting once upon a time. Now it's just "OK, who's going to be the first loser to Ferrari this year?"
B3RACER1a
03-02-05, 05:01 PM
Jordan was screwed when Ford pulled out, had to accomidate the Toyota engine in their chassis, went through a mid-off-season sale to Midland...
Legal car for Australia.
Jaguar didn't know if there would even be a team at the end of the season, gets bailed out mid-off-season.
Legal car for Australia.
Minardi keeps the same engines and owners, but for them and only them the rules are too late? C'mon. Stoddart gambled that everyone would be "awww shucks, poor Minardi", now he finds himself in a bind. Oh well. Shut the garage doors on the team and don't open them until he has a legal car to compete with.
:thumbup:
"OK, who's going to be the first loser to Ferrari this year?"
Minardi. :laugh:
It's like Ferrari got tired of beating the upper eschelon teams on the track, and now has fun beating small back-marker teams off the track. Look out Midland, Ferrai might buy the deed to your shop and evict you. ;)
Insomniac
03-02-05, 05:11 PM
I can't believe the FIA allows there to be an exception in the first place. This whole thing should end there, not with the teams. If the cars don't meet the requirements set to race, they don't race. Seems pretty simple. And they say ChampCar can't make decisions....
I do wonder why eight teams are okay with it and one isn't. It doesn't help any team to have them out there, it could only hurt them. The objective is to win the race. The less cars, the better.
racer2c
03-02-05, 05:15 PM
I can't believe the FIA allows there to be an exception in the first place. This whole thing should end there, not with the teams. If the cars don't meet the requirements set to race, they don't race. Seems pretty simple. And they say ChampCar can't make decisions....
I do wonder why eight teams are okay with it and one isn't. It doesn't help any team to have them out there, it could only hurt them. The objective is to win the race. The less cars, the better.
You would think it would be a private vote also. If one team or six teams veto it doesn't matter and it doesn't make the one team look like a shmuck. Like Ferrari in this instance.
Haven't seen you around these parts insomniac. Hangin on another board?
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 05:15 PM
At what point does it cease to become a race then, Insomniac?
The less cars the better only if you care about "winning" even if it means "winning" against a grid of nothing.
Say what you want about NASCAR, but that's real competition - you gotta beat 42 cars to the checkered flag every week.
Say what you want about NASCAR, but that's real competition - you gotta beat 42 cars to the checkered flag every week.
...and the Debris Yellows and Dale Jr's NOS special at Talladega and Daytona.
Methanolandbrats
03-02-05, 05:45 PM
Say what you want about NASCAR, but that's real competition - you gotta beat 42 cars to the checkered flag every week. It's 42 spec racers so tightly controlled that if someone does find an advantage, it is quickly taken away. It's all about keeping as many billboards orbiting the track for as long as possible with occasional rubbin' and wreckin' to keep the drunken rednecks from falling asleep. It's entertainment more than racing.
F1 is real competition. If you gain an advantage, the others have to catch up. That may take a week, a month, a whole season or years. It's about excellence and execution. It is more about racing than entertainment.
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 05:57 PM
...and the Debris Yellows and Dale Jr's NOS special at Talladega and Daytona.
...hey, you mean those roll cages aren't just empty inside? :rofl:
jonovision_man
03-02-05, 06:12 PM
Perhaps, but it's never ever ever been as expensive as it is now.
Maybe not, but when Stoddart bought his team we were well into the cost escalation and the trend was only pointing up-up-and-away. He knew what he was getting into.
Maybe you want to see "only the cars that can win" on the grid, but if that's the case, then just kick everyone except Ferrari out, because 95 percent of the time they're the only cars that can win, and five percent is just a rounding error.
There have been periods of domination before, whether it was Williams, Maclaren, or Ferrari. They end eventually.
Besides, without Schumacher Ferrari's performance is far more Rubens-like. I think he shows what the car is truly capable of when not driven by the best driver in the world. And Michael ain't getting any younger.
"Oh, and they're off, it's Schumacher vs. Barrichello, Rubens holds a slight edge going into Turn 1 OH BUT NOW HE BACKS OFF, team orders must be the case and Schumacher leads the race!"
How exciting. :shakehead
I remember the days when there were 26 cars and DNPQs and wanker teams that had no hope but showed up for the fun of it and you had the occasional flashes of brilliance tempered by the more common brilliant flashes of fire as their cars became one with the tire walls or gravel traps or leaders...
F1 was interesting once upon a time. Now it's just "OK, who's going to be the first loser to Ferrari this year?"
It's the most watched form of motorsports on the planet, so I'm not alone in disagreeing.
jono
FCYTravis
03-02-05, 06:42 PM
Appeal to popularity.
NASCAR's the most-watched form of motorsport in the United States. So what?
Steve99
03-02-05, 06:47 PM
only one getting owned here is stoddart :thumbup:
And the fans. :thumdown:
Steve99
03-02-05, 06:50 PM
I wonder how hard it would have been for Minardi to get Toyota engine? :gomer:
Maybe a stock-block V8? :gomer:
Dirty Sanchez
03-02-05, 06:51 PM
And the fans. :thumdown:yeah... and you should blame Minardi.
Al Czervik
03-02-05, 07:47 PM
Rules are rules. If you don't meet the specs, you don't race. Real simple.
By the way, what is illegal about the Minardis?
Ed_Severson
03-02-05, 07:54 PM
I don't see this problem not getting resolved in Minardi's favor. Three years ago Bernie allowed Toyota to join Formula 1 in the hopes that we'd have 24 cars on the grid. We're now down to 20, and potentially headed for 18 if Minardi are not allowed to race in Australia.
Bernie's not going to let that happen.
jonovision_man
03-02-05, 08:10 PM
Appeal to popularity.
NASCAR's the most-watched form of motorsport in the United States. So what?
Popularity aside, then, I find F1 very "interesting", and I think Minardi in its current incarnation under Stoddart adds just about nothing "interesting" to the sport.
I don't want F1 to be CCWS, CCWS is CCWS. F1 is a different beast with an engineering battle as much as a driver battle. Every team has to manufacture a car from scratch, it's unimaginable in most other series, and it makes the cars a lot more interesting.
Yes, you lose parity, and Minardi can't compete. But frankly, dumbing down the sport to the level that Paul Stoddart can afford wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
IMO. :) I fully understand why others might disagree.
jono
Dr. Corkski
03-02-05, 08:18 PM
I believe the Concorde Agreement states that there should be a limit of 12 teams, and Toyota was slated to be the 12th team and only became the 11th when that Prost completed the implosion of his team. IIRC Toyota wanted to build a V12 engine but by that point it was written in the rules that only V10s would be allowed.
The Minardi would fail inspection this year because it's wings are still 2004 spec and would not meet the 2005 regulations becuase of the changes done to reduce downforce. Of course you can argue that Minardi probably won't be competetive enough to make a difference with a 04 car, but that would just open the door for any team that fails inspection to say they should be allowed to race because of there was no competitve advantage gained.
jonovision_man
03-02-05, 08:25 PM
I believe the Concorde Agreement states that there should be a limit of 12 teams, and Toyota was slated to be the 12th team and only became the 11th when that Prost completed the implosion of his team.
Correct... which leads us into another Paul Stoddart whine fest, after Arrows went belly up and he felt entitled to the 10th place money despite finishing 11th in the championship... they caved and gave it to him IIRC.
Of course you can argue that Minardi probably won't be competetive enough to make a difference with a 04 car, but that would just open the door for any team that fails inspection to say they should be allowed to race because of there was no competitve advantage gained.
Who can say? They were competitive enough a few years ago for Mark Webber to score points in Australia. And that was without a technical advantage over anyone.
I'm actually surprised Jordan isn't getting in the way of this, they could conceivably be beat out to the points by an illegal Minardi... points that eventually determine pay-outs at the end of the year.
jono
Dr. Corkski
03-02-05, 09:17 PM
Who can say? They were competitive enough a few years ago for Mark Webber to score points in Australia. And that was without a technical advantage over anyone.
I'm actually surprised Jordan isn't getting in the way of this, they could conceivably be beat out to the points by an illegal Minardi... points that eventually determine pay-outs at the end of the year.You know that result had more to do with attrition than even Zslow Bumgardener's 8th place at the USGP last year. Hell it still stands as Webber's best finish to date! The Minardi in question is essentially an "evolution" of the Minardi that Webber drove. My guess is Jordan and the seven other teams are more than willing to let Minardi slide given that Stoddart does all the dirty work in bitching to the public about Ferrari and cutting testing. That alone makes it absurd for Stoddart to expect Ferrari to do them any favors.
TorontoWorker
03-02-05, 09:39 PM
It's a PR nightmare for Ferrari, for the FIA, Bernie and for F1 in general. Great PR for Minardi. F1 websites jumping, TV sportscasters talkin about F1 when they normally couldn't give a crap cause it doesn't involve either a stick or a ball. F1 chat sites yapping away about this weekend... Yup situation lookin good for the Max and Bernie soap opera! Guess whos cars WILL be on the grid this weekend? Yah we're all Bernies bitches again, the script was printed months ago... (sigh)
racer2c
03-02-05, 11:17 PM
I'm actually surprised Jordan isn't getting in the way of this, they could conceivably be beat out to the points by an illegal Minardi... points that eventually determine pay-outs at the end of the year.
jono
The spirit of competition.
If Ferrari had said OK to the request, along with the rest of the teams, would it have created even a larger uproar than Ferrari sticking to the books? I think so.
jonovision_man
03-03-05, 08:26 AM
You know that result had more to do with attrition than even Zslow Bumgardener's 8th place at the USGP last year. Hell it still stands as Webber's best finish to date! The Minardi in question is essentially an "evolution" of the Minardi that Webber drove. My guess is Jordan and the seven other teams are more than willing to let Minardi slide given that Stoddart does all the dirty work in bitching to the public about Ferrari and cutting testing. That alone makes it absurd for Stoddart to expect Ferrari to do them any favors.
Interesting theory, could very well be right. He certainly is the public mouthpiece for cost-cutting.
jono
jonovision_man
03-03-05, 09:39 AM
Red Bull withdraws support: (from AtlasF1)
"I sympathise with his position but rules are rules," Horner told Reuters. "They are there for a reason and we all have to abide by them. My position and that of Red Bull is that nothing would be more frustrating for us in a debut race to finish ninth with a Minardi ahead of us and a point taken from us."
And there's some speculation that the Jordan support may be withdrawn, since it was originally given by Eddie before the transfer of power.
jono
Dirty Sanchez
03-03-05, 10:09 AM
ooops :laugh:
What bothers me most about this whole thing is the timing. Todt obviously knew about this weeks ago but waited until Minardi freighted all their equipment to Australia before telling them that he wouldn't allow them to race. :thumdown:
Dirty Sanchez
03-03-05, 10:34 AM
What bothers me most about this whole thing is the timing. Todt obviously knew about this weeks ago but waited until Minardi freighted all their equipment to Australia before telling them that he wouldn't allow them to race. :thumdown:or you could say that Minardi have known since last October that they would now be in this position... and have waited til the very last moment to get things sorted. Stoddart says he has not spoken with Todt since Brazil. Instead he's made his case (poorly) through the media.
racer2c
03-03-05, 10:45 AM
I read on Speed that Minardi actually has 2005 spec peices they could bolt on to get cleared bu they don't want to because they haven't been track tested.
Bolt them on.
JLMannin
03-03-05, 11:56 AM
Friday sounds like a good day to test them out, if they in fact have them.
Dirty Sanchez
03-03-05, 12:14 PM
stoddart=paper with a funny accent.
his cars are about as good too. :laugh:
jonovision_man
03-04-05, 09:18 AM
He's in! He's out! Judges, FIA, Ferrari, Stoddart has his hands full it seems...
Supposedly he got a court injunction now... :rolleyes: so he may be in...
At least he has two experience drivers who can cope with this upheaval. ;)
jono
jonovision_man
03-04-05, 12:46 PM
LOL. This is becoming comical. :rolleyes:
He's out again...
From Autosport:
"Without the FIA's knowledge and without the opportunity for the FIA to participate in the proceedings, Minardi sought an injunction from the Supreme Court of Victoria," said an FIA spokesman. "The FIA immediately sought leave for an early hearing to present the facts to the Court before any of the Saturday sessions could take place. We have since been informed that Minardi has unconditionally withdrawn its complaint to the Court."
jono
Dirty Sanchez
03-04-05, 01:01 PM
total wanker :thumdown:
apparently he's now modifying his cars to 2005 spec... something that was within their capabilities from the very beginning. this was nothing more than a stunt... to try to widen the gap between ferrari and the rest of the teams. most of the team owners were willing to let stoddart hang himself but when asked if they really supported him running an illegal car they would only say "yes" through clenched teeth. but more recent comments from team principles from Red Bull, Jordan and even BAR suggest that they didn't really support him at all and are pleased that the FIA stood firm on the rules.
what's funny is how many "fans" bought into stoddart's crap... the "crappies" couldn't be more lost on this one. :laugh:
racer2c
03-04-05, 02:23 PM
total wanker :thumdown:
apparently he's now modifying his cars to 2005 spec... something that was within their capabilities from the very beginning. this was nothing more than a stunt... to try to widen the gap between ferrari and the rest of the teams. most of the team owners were willing to let stoddart hang himself but when asked if they really supported him running an illegal car they would only say "yes" through clenched teeth. but more recent comments from team principles from Red Bull, Jordan and even BAR suggest that they didn't really support him at all and are pleased that the FIA stood firm on the rules.
what's funny is how many "fans" bought into stoddart's crap... the "crappies" couldn't be more lost on this one. :laugh:
yep, we're all gullable except you. I bow to Crapus, King of the Non Gullables. :gomer:
Minardi has always been a fan favorite underdog team. He's playing the chess game of F1, but leave it to you to crap on his, and the Minardi fans parade.
Go Ferrari Weee! :gomer:
Dirty Sanchez
03-04-05, 02:40 PM
:laugh:
no... lots of other fans saw through this crap. I'm not alone. you comment on ferrari... yet this has nothing to do with them despite stoddart's best attempts.
I like the spirit of the privateers... when they actually try to go about the business of racing. the rest of this sideshow nonsense just makes him and his team look like complete tools. :thumdown:
Dr. Corkski
03-04-05, 05:05 PM
When Stoddart first bought Minardi back in 2001 he brought a car with 1 day of shakedowns to Melbourne and stuck a 19 year old and a guy who had been out of F1 for 3 years into the cars, and he certainly didn't seemed concerned about "safety" of those relatively untested cars then. This year, Minardi had at least tested some of its 2005 aero bits.
Some "fans" will look for any reason to bash Ferrari, even when it became obvious it's not Ferrari that's keeping Minardi from racing. But then again what else can you expect from the Champ Car version of TrackForum.
Most people still like Minardi. Just not the wanker that runs it.
jonovision_man
03-04-05, 06:23 PM
Minardi has always been a fan favorite underdog team. He's playing the chess game of F1, but leave it to you to crap on his, and the Minardi fans parade.
Go Ferrari Weee! :gomer:
I used to pull for Minardi.
I've never pulled for Ferrari.
And there's no way I'd pull for Paul Stoddart. He's ruined what used to be a fun little team. The "minnows" of the grid, the little engine that could, the david fighing all those goliaths.
Stoddart is a pain in the a**, has been for years, this is just the most noticeable and arrogant stunt he's pulled. If he shows up on the grid with a 2005 spec car, it will prove once and for all just what kind of character this guy has.
He overestimated his importance to the grid, and his little blackmail scheme failed. I won't miss him when he's out of F1... which is hopefully quite soon.
jono
I just hope the new Brabham does well this weekend for the home race.
:gomer:
racer2c
03-04-05, 07:21 PM
I used to pull for Minardi.
I've never pulled for Ferrari.
And there's no way I'd pull for Paul Stoddart. He's ruined what used to be a fun little team. The "minnows" of the grid, the little engine that could, the david fighing all those goliaths.
Stoddart is a pain in the a**, has been for years, this is just the most noticeable and arrogant stunt he's pulled. If he shows up on the grid with a 2005 spec car, it will prove once and for all just what kind of character this guy has.
He overestimated his importance to the grid, and his little blackmail scheme failed. I won't miss him when he's out of F1... which is hopefully quite soon.
jono
I think we're all on the same page now. Watching this play out it's obvious that Stoddard was milking the issue. My initial reaction was "wow, Ferrari picking on the little guy" but Stoddard didn't need to be in this position to begin with.
stoddart=paper with a funny accent.
Whos got a funny accent?????? :saywhat: :gomer:
TorontoWorker
03-04-05, 08:53 PM
Told you Minardi would be on the grid. It's all about the theater now isnt'? I like the team - hate the owner.
jonovision_man
03-04-05, 09:11 PM
His comments... oh man...
cnn/SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/racing/03/04/bc.car.f1.australiangp.ap/index.html)
"We've made the point, we've taken it as far as we needed to take it," Stoddart said Saturday before his two cars went out for practice. "Throughout the night we've managed to convert two of the cars to '05 specifications."
"As far as we're concerned, the matter is over, but the message is clear. Simply, we want stability and we want clear, precise regulations."
Paul - it's called a press release, look into it, so next time you don't have to come off looking like such a whank.
jono
B3RACER1a
03-05-05, 01:23 AM
I dont get it. He had the pieces all along and even tested them, but wanted to run the 2004 bits to close the gap some.
This isnt NASCAR Paul, its F1. Get a clue! :thumdown:
jonovision_man
03-05-05, 08:53 AM
Of course you can argue that Minardi probably won't be competetive enough to make a difference with a 04 car, but that would just open the door for any team that fails inspection to say they should be allowed to race because of there was no competitve advantage gained.
Like I said, who can say. :)
2005 glued-together Minardis out-qualify the Ferrari in a rained-out session. How much further up the grid would they have been with the 2004 car?
jono
Great :shakehead Now the FIA is talking about cancelling all Australian world championship motorsport events (F1, WRC, Moto GP, ChampCar) because of the Australian laws which allow supreme court judges to interfere with a major sporting event, and what is Paul's response: "I'll wipe the floor with the FIA at the London High Court" :eek: This pathetic political BS has gone way, way too far now, Oh and by the way to make it a little more interesting the Victorian Supreme Court is reportedly pizzed with the FIA making foul comments about them so expect this to turn into a world of ***** real fast. :mad:
Methanolandbrats
03-05-05, 11:04 AM
Do not **** with Bernie.
Do not **** with Bernie.
No not with Bernie, but maybe his wife :laugh:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/03/05/503gp2,0.jpg
TorontoWorker
03-05-05, 11:52 AM
Do not **** with Bernie.
Why? The EU did and they wiped the floor with him - hence - no more lung killing products on the side of cars after July 30. Wait until someone charges Bernie with the same anti business charges that the EU brought against Microsoft - and won. In fact I hear the banks are the guys that own Bernie now anyway.
He's not god - he's a used car seller done well for himself. Nothing more nothing less.
jonovision_man
03-05-05, 11:59 AM
Why? The EU did and they wiped the floor with him - hence - no more lung killing products on the side of cars after July 30. Wait until someone charges Bernie with the same anti business charges that the EU brought against Microsoft - and won. In fact I hear the banks are the guys that own Bernie now anyway.
He's not god - he's a used car seller done well for himself. Nothing more nothing less.
He's ridiculously clever and crafty... just when you think he's down he springs back up.
The EU held all the cards, not much he could have done there... except what he did, which was continue F1's dominant position and profit greatly from it.
The banks won that decision over him to grab control of the F1 commercial rights. But frankly they owned the majority of the shares for years before they were finally able to give him the push... and even then he's stayed on, they don't really want him out.
The Bernie-ism I like best was the way he signed Ferrari to a Concorde extention to the shock and dismay of the other teams. We'll see how that turns out in the end, but I get the feeling Bernie will again be at the top of the heap...
jono
Rogue Leader
03-05-05, 12:11 PM
Wow Stoddardt just went through the roof on the wanker scale for this stunt. I was infuriated when I heard varsha say last night that they not only had the 05 parts, they DID test them at Mugello!
Come on Paul as if the sport isn't F'ed up enough you gotta go and start crap like this to further your agenda! :rolleyes:
Methanolandbrats
03-05-05, 12:25 PM
I'd rather go one on one with an angry chimp than head to head with Bernie in business. Better odds.
jonovision_man
03-05-05, 12:39 PM
I'd rather go one on one with an angry chimp than head to head with Bernie in business. Better odds.
For sure. I have another one. :)
Last year, Canada was left off the schedule over tobacco. Bernie then got the Canadian government to stump up millions of dollars extra to be added as the "19th race", and an extra premium to get the teams to run without the adverts.
Before the ink was even dry on that contract, Bernie then removed France from the schedule! France was scheduled to be a tobacco-free race... in other words he was back to the original number of tobacco-free races AND the magic 18 number, but plus a pocket full of extra Canadian government cash.
THEN he turns around and dings France an extra shot for being the 19th race and running tobacco free! :p
Brilliant. Underhanded, somewhat immoral, but brilliant.
jono
Accipiter
03-05-05, 01:30 PM
He had the parts, he had them tested, so what the hell was all this about? I think it was Stoddart trying to steal a march on the competition by holding them to a prior agreement hoping they would assume they didn't have the capability to put a legal car on the track. Makes me wonder if the big error in this plan was testing the new parts at Mugello where some Ferrari eyeballs could fall upon them. In the end, Stoddart comes off looking like the ass in this story.
:rolleyes:
Insomniac
03-06-05, 07:54 PM
You would think it would be a private vote also. If one team or six teams veto it doesn't matter and it doesn't make the one team look like a shmuck. Like Ferrari in this instance.
Haven't seen you around these parts insomniac. Hangin on another board?
Nah, no other board. Just real busy. Not much really going on in ChampCar to keep up day to day. So once the NFL kicked in, that was pretty much it. Only a couple races left and then that was all to watch. I just checked in once or twice a month. I guess once you fall behind, it's hard to catch back up and get back in the swing of things.
Insomniac
03-06-05, 08:01 PM
At what point does it cease to become a race then, Insomniac?
The less cars the better only if you care about "winning" even if it means "winning" against a grid of nothing.
Say what you want about NASCAR, but that's real competition - you gotta beat 42 cars to the checkered flag every week.
We can debate how many cars it takes to make it a race. Obviously, the more the better. But there are still rules. And lets not kid ourselves. F1 is for teams that have $$$. $50M buy in? What's the smallest annual budget? $50M? If F1 ever needs to get cars in, they can lower the cost to compete. That might be freezing all these changes year to year. I don't think they care all that much about one team. I'm just saying, rules are rules. You want to change them for one team, change them for all. Don't you think Ferrari would love to run their 2004 chassis while everyone else had a 2005? The only reason other teams said okay was they knew their cars were faster than last years' Minardis. If it was BMW, McLaren, Honda, Renault or Ferrari, there would've been a lot of no votes. If F1 wanted 40 cars, they could easily get them with some rules and cost changes. They don't care to have that many to keep the appearance of being elite. If only one team could build a 2005 in time, they'd be running 2004s again.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.