When track days go bad

[nrc]

Ouch.

http://www.impreza.nu/ssi2/expo/albums/En-liten-incident/TraffAMCO.mpg

[rabbit]

That's gonna leave a mark.

[oddlycalm]

It definitely happens. Playing Senna with that much water on the track is something best avoided. Even on dry tracks learning can be expensive. I've got dozens of pictures of nearly new M3's and Porsches that got wrapped around guard rails or fell victim to the "money shift."

oc

[RichK]

Don't take anything you can't afford to write off to the track.....

[or make sure your insurance covers track days]

[Rogue Leader]

We had a guy put a new M3 headon into a lightpole at an autox once... and the lightpole was FAR from the course.

[Rogue Leader]

Don't take anything you can't afford to write off to the track.....

[or make sure your insurance covers track days]

no auto insurance covers track days, and even race car policies specifically exclude racing damage!

[RichK]

no auto insurance covers track days, and even race car policies specifically exclude racing damage!

Mine does, if there is instruction involved. Other insurance companies do this too, even with motorcycles.

[Wheel-Nut]

What did that dude say just before he hit the wall?

[Rogue Leader]

Mine does, if there is instruction involved. Other insurance companies do this too, even with motorcycles.

Read your policy closely.... I work for GEICO and have licenses in about 20 states. Insuance covers driving instruction, and in many cases will cover the track day wreck should you provide irrefutable proof you were being instructed how to drive at NON race speeds (good luck), and then promptly drop your policy. However MANY (not all) policies specifically exclude on their collision coverage any type of track driving or racing and while they will cover you for any damage or injuries to yourself or others, they will not cover your own vehicle damage.

This has been a big thing lately with insurance compaies because you have guys wrecking their car at the track and then having a tow truck dump it on a roadside somewhere and they are either reporting it stolen or saying someone hit them and ran.

[RichK]

My policy states that on track instruction is okay, un-timed laps and no racing. California track day operators often write letters to insurance companies, stating that the above conditions are true. In fact, if the operators feel that you are 'racing' your friend, they will pull you off the track.

[Rogue Leader]

My policy states that on track instruction is okay, un-timed laps and no racing. California track day operators often write letters to insurance companies, stating that the above conditions are true. In fact, if the operators feel that you are 'racing' your friend, they will pull you off the track.

Right... as i stated in a roundabout way above, depends on your definition of "track day", and just because its in the policy doesnt prevent a company from giving you a hard time or dropping your policy after the claim is settled. By instruction most companies assume you have (and can prove) you had an instructor in the car too. It varies from state to state and company to company, but in the grand scheme you best hope things are in order before and after to ensure you don't get screwed. There is no definitive answer... When people ask my advice about it i say either a)dont race your car or b) pay for it out of pocket if you screw it up.

PS most companies biggest problems have come from dragstrips though... and that is always excluded.

[RacinM3]

In my 5+ years of instructiing for BMW CCA as well as other groups, the experiences I've seen typically have the insurance covering the on-track loss if the insured can show that it was instructional, non-racing, and non-timed.

Sure they can drop you afterward, but they can do that if you total your car running a red light, as well. In fact, they technically can do it whenever they want, I'd guess.

Most times, the insureds are instructed, after the loss has been covered, and if they have not been dropped, that there will be no more replacements if a future claim is made where the loss occurs under similar conditions.

[Rogue Leader]

In my 5+ years of instructiing for BMW CCA as well as other groups, the experiences I've seen typically have the insurance covering the on-track loss if the insured can show that it was instructional, non-racing, and non-timed.

Sure they can drop you afterward, but they can do that if you total your car running a red light, as well. In fact, they technically can do it whenever they want, I'd guess.

Most times, the insureds are instructed, after the loss has been covered, and if they have not been dropped, that there will be no more replacements if a future claim is made where the loss occurs under similar conditions.

Correct, its very specific on the situation, and after it happens dont let it happen again. As for dropping, they can drop you for gross negligence, they see racing a car as that, same as blowing a red light... otherwise they cant just drop you without some good reason.

Incidentally insurance companies would be happy to know that their insureds are learning about better car control etc, however the bad apples ruin it for everyone (the ones i mentioned above) and make it so that honest people who are getting instruction can and will get screwed if something happens. Unfortunately those who make policy are not car guys, so they way its written sweeps over everyone.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I've heard that most insurance companies will cover NASA HPDEs and other similar events, but the second you attach a transponder to it and enter Time Trials, its all out the window. I saw a guy roll an E46 M3 at Mid-Ohio last year during a NASA time trial. The story was that BMW was originally going to cover it when it appeared that the accident was caused by the engine failing (a recall was issued that week) and oil causing the accident but apparently it ended up being driver error

Personally, I'd love to do a track day but between the entry fee, tire, and brake expenses, and the risk of wadding up my daily driver, it just isn't worth it. I'd have to try really hard to hit something in an autocross. :D

[Rogue Leader]

I've heard that most insurance companies will cover NASA HPDEs and other similar events, but the second you attach a transponder to it and enter Time Trials, its all out the window. I saw a guy roll an E46 M3 at Mid-Ohio last year during a NASA time trial. The story was that BMW was originally going to cover it when it appeared that the accident was caused by the engine failing (a recall was issued that week) and oil causing the accident but apparently it ended up being driver error

Personally, I'd love to do a track day but between the entry fee, tire, and brake expenses, and the risk of wadding up my daily driver, it just isn't worth it. I'd have to try really hard to hit something in an autocross. :D

The specific timing thing is a myth, thats why I said to RichK that an in many cases it depends on what you can and cant prove. 99.9% of the time if you are on the race track on your own with no transpoonder/timing and no instructor in the car, if you crash it youre screwed. It takes a very specific case like what RichK mentioned for the insurance company to cover it.

Ive Autocrossed for 6 years, and as you and I know it takes effort to damage your car there, but autocross damage would definitely NOT be covered, it (in the eyes of insurance) IS racing.

[Methanolandbrats]

In the autocross series I help run, we've had a couple cars destroyed and a few damaged (light poles and walls because we run on ovals a few times a year). None were covered because as was stated, it's racing. Helmet + clock = racing. Did see a Subaru go through the ice at an ice autocross, but he was off course practicing before the event and the insurance covered it. If he been doing a timed run, no coverage.

[ilferrari]

What did that dude say just before he hit the wall?

He said "nay nay nay nay"

:gomer: