Whats the draw to oval racing and open wheel?

[murchman]

Been away for awhile and just been catching up on the latest news on the the two series. I just spent some time at the TF splizville section reading what they think the problem is and the solution to solve it all. One thing no one over there seems to ask is do people really want to see open wheel cars oval race?

I starting really getting into racing back in 96 when my father convinced me to watch the Road America race. I loved the action and skill reqiured to go fast around that type of track and from that point on I was hooked. I watched a few more road and street races and thought to myself that man I have been missing out for so many years. Then the oval racing part of the season started to kick in and I was so board watching them and just never really got anything out of it since if I wanted to watch that I could switch to Nascar and see more cars side by side and lots of carnage. So for most of the next season I watched every street and road course race they had while skipping all the oval's since I didn't get much out of them but understood that you need some ovals to make it a well balanced league. It seemed at that time Cart was going after just what I wanted as they seem to be doing more road and street then oval, at the time I didn't really know about the split and the other league causing those changes.

I know CCWS is going after the street and road course crowd like myself and I think it's great but I have to wonder if they fail will I be stuck with the crappy oval series that thinks 2 or 3 non oval races is enough. I just don't get why oval racing and open wheel seems to be such a good idea? Nascar owns the ovals, people like to watch Nascar do what it does best and it seems I am not the only one that doesn't want to see open wheel cars try to be like cup cars.

Sorry I guess I really don't have a point to the post other then to vent and maybe get some ideas why a mostly oval open wheel series seems to be the thing everyone thinks is needed over there even though rating and attendance sugest otherwise...

[indyfan31]

I've used this analogy before but I think it works. You could compare IRL racing to Champ Cars like basketball to baseball. In basketball there's almost constant scoring causing the lead to change often; same as the IRL, the lead can change every lap or several times every lap.
In baseball it takes time to get players on base and then bring them home to score (with the exception of the HR). In Champ cars it could take several corners to set a guy up for a pass, watching it develop is part of the fun; then there's the time when "the pass" comes right out of nowhere (like the HR).
Two of the most tension filled moments in Champ Car racing are the first left turn at Long Beach and the first right turn at Cleveland, I don't like to miss either one. A dozen ovals and 2 or 3 road races is not the mix I want to see.

[Andrew Longman]

I've seen several interviews with Mario Andretti where he explained the racing landscape in the 70s.

Indy was huge and had been for a long time. It was THE race of the year. The draw was the speed that such a large oval could produce. New track records happened nearly every year. Crowds were large enough throughout the month of May to almost equal an entire season in itself. That publicity and the publicity for the winner was enough to attract sufficient sponsorship.

But oval racing in the US has its roots in short dirt tracks. The big powerful Indy cars aren't really relevant there and didn't really have a draw at other ovals outside of Milwaukee and Phoenix and later Michigan. In the Southeast, interests and oval tracks were geared towards stock cars. As Mario put it, they Indy car season always struggled to pull crowds outside of Indy and a few other races (sound familiar?) until they got serious about adding road courses. When they did that, they raced for huge crowds at Road America, Mid Ohio, Toronto, Long Beach, etc.

My belief, based on my own attraction to the sport, is that people can be drawn to a few high speed ovals, just because they are scary fast. But to make these cars fast they must be technologically sophisticated, and fans want to see them applied to other challenging venues, especially purpose build natural terrain road courses. The novelty of racing in the streets (a la Monaco) is fun too. The thoughts of bringing the worlds fastest cars to the streets we drive every day is great fun and especially challenging.

But this variety may do very well to create a series of fan-friendly "events" that are great to attend, but it also may not work well as the predicitable TV friendly product. I suspect that the fact that each and every NASCAR race is almost identical is actually a plus for NASCAR. Its a very predictable and easy to understand product. The uniqueness and subtlety of the champcar venues requires more investment by the fan to appreciate and the casual fan will not understand why his favorite driver who did so well last week sucks big time in this venue.

TGs mistake is that he thought too many Indy fans want to see that product all season long and that existing/potential NASCAR fans want to see twitchy hi-tech cars run in circles instead of the psuedo-versions of the sedans they can buy themselves at the dealer (and that they see run as late models or modifieds at their local track every saturday night)

[racer2c]

Champ Cars have a long history of oval racing (dirt and pavement) along with road racing. It is the variety of circuits that give Champ Cars their unique appeal.

The Split and NASCARS popularity (which benefited greatly from the split) contributed in killing off most of Champ Cars oval races.

But don't kid yourself, if by some fluke, the CCWS went the way of the dinosaurs, the IRL would be all over crumbs like the vultures they are. Fortunately for us, the CCWS, in one short year, is healthier and has a brighter future without the tight grip of two Japanese manufactures, than the IRL is.

Their road races will be dumbed down just like their oval racing is. It's not the tracks, it's the series.

[cart7]

Good response Andrew. I'd add that as an American, I tend to view oval racing as ours, something developed in this country much like baseball and football. We expect the participants to be oval trained racers not foreign road racers trying to adapt to ovals. While I enjoy oval racing, I can't envision having a year round interest in an Open wheel racing series doing just that.

I think you'll find the supporters of the earl are either USAC short track fans who would just as soon see the Indy spec as Front engine with a couple dirt tracks added to the season schedule as well as Pikes Peak or, they're former Cart fans who weren't happy with the number of ovals on the schedule but still liked the overall makeup of Cart teams and drivers. In both cases they're overly Indycentric, infatuated with the Hulman/George family running the speedway and can't seem to understand the concept that the season championship should be just as important as an Indy win.

[jonovision_man]

I've used this analogy before but I think it works. You could compare IRL racing to Champ Cars like basketball to baseball. In basketball there's almost constant scoring causing the lead to change often; same as the IRL, the lead can change every lap or several times every lap.
In baseball it takes time to get players on base and then bring them home to score (with the exception of the HR). In Champ cars it could take several corners to set a guy up for a pass, watching it develop is part of the fun; then there's the time when "the pass" comes right out of nowhere (like the HR).
Two of the most tension filled moments in Champ Car racing are the first left turn at Long Beach and the first right turn at Cleveland, I don't like to miss either one. A dozen ovals and 2 or 3 road races is not the mix I want to see.

Great analogy. I used a similiar one in the past but instead of baseball I chose hockey, CC is a bit more exciting than baseball. :)

With any road race every pass can dramatically impact your finishing position, just like any goal in a hockey game dramatically impacts your ability to win the game. With oval racing the impact of an individual pass isn't as significant, but when you take all those passes over the course of a race it adds up to a winner or loser.

jono

[cart7]

With oval racing the impact of an individual pass isn't as significant, but when you take all those passes over the course of a race it adds up to a winner or loser.

jono
:rolleyes:
I'll take the word of 2 time Cart champion Gil Deferran, he described winning most of the earl momentum, dronefests akin to winning the lottery.

[jonovision_man]

:rolleyes:
I'll take the word of 2 time Cart champion Gil Deferran, he described winning most of the earl momentum, dronefests akin to winning the lottery.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't really like oval racing much myself, but I can understand the appeal.

jono

[Andrew Longman]

Oval racing, back in the day, also posed a special engineering problem.

Flat out speed was obviously critical, but not at the expense of reliability and fatigue. 500 miles used to be (as they say) a real long way. It took many hours to complete, tore up a lot of engines and tires and required a lot of stamina from the driver. How many run away leaders lost the I500 to a failure within sight of the finish? Winning really demonstrated the prowess of manufacturers, engineers and drivers.

Today, NASCAR runs 500 miles nearly 32 weeks a year. Its no big deal with highly restricted engines and formulas and minimal tire competition. On the other hand the IRL (or CCWS for that matter) doesn't run much more than 200 miles most weeks because they need to fit in a 2+ hr time slot and because otherwise on the shorter ovals and high speeds they would end with only a handful of cars on the lead lap. Also, (happily) the IRL doesn't have the endless yellows that continually bunch the field.

Without this, and without the manufactured competition of NASCAR, open wheel racing on ovals is of limited interest.

I do have to ask if with the current CCWS formula and spec engine if endurance oval race would have much appeal. The races at MIS were among my favorites and I started watching Champ cars on the ovals of Pocono and Trenton and later Nazareth. But that was when there was enough latitude in the formula and competition among manufactuers to make it interesting. Now I can only marvel if Cosworth gets them running at 235 and gets all 18 engines to finish. That's not quite the same.