View Full Version : GM: Deja vu all over again
NEW YORK/DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp.'s (GM) chief of product development on Wednesday warned that GM, which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections.
GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz did not specify which car might be dropped but described Buick and Pontiac as "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years, and told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York that GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market.
What a shock. Nobody with a pulse is interested in a Buick and Pontiac's plastic cladded parodies of sporting sedans will prevent enthusiasts from taking them seriously for at least five more years.
GM has been a fuster cluck for some time now. Give them a few more years and maybe they can ruin the Chevrolet brand too.
Oh wait, nevermind
Methanolandbrats
03-24-05, 12:22 AM
What a shock. Nobody with a pulse is interested in a Buick and Pontiac's plastic cladded parodies of sporting sedans will prevent enthusiasts from taking them seriously for at least five more years. I thought Grand Am was the keystone of the future :confused:
FCYTravis
03-24-05, 01:58 AM
Buick is headed for the ****can.
racer2c
03-24-05, 11:31 AM
Buick is headed for the ****can.
That would the obvous choice, although I read a few months ago that Buick actually had the highest reliablity feedback from owners than any other GM car. Small demographic though. Ponitac sells fleet vehicles so their probably safe.
Sean O'Gorman
03-24-05, 11:44 AM
With most of its owners headed out to pasture anyway, might as well send Buick with it.
GM has a few cool cars, but nothing really practical. I'm so sick of their advertisements too. "Hey, lets take a song from the 60s or 70s, throw it in a commercial with clips of our cars doing e-brake slides while mysteriously not leaving tire tracks, and then repeat it for every model in the line." :rolleyes:
Show some damn innovation already!
Michaelhatesfans
03-24-05, 12:16 PM
I don't undstand GM rationale. I mean, I grew up in one of those families that always bought GM, so while I've never actually bought one myself, out of pure sentiment I'd like to see them turn things around.
But jeez, when they build four or five identical cars and the only thing that really separates them is a different grill or headlight design, what do they expect? I've never understood why they need GMC when Chevrolet produces the same exact products. I used to work at a GMC dealer, and on two occasions we had GMC trucks arrive with Chevrolet tailgates. And why does GM think that they need a Camaro and a Firebird?
Likewise, GM has never addressed what I perceive to be it's biggest problem, it's resale value.
But what do they do when they decide to turn their image around? They build a Cadillac that turns into a pickup. :saywhat: Yes, just what the world was waiting for... And when small fuel efficient hybrids from Toyota and Honda start selling fast, GM counters with it's own hybrid. But it's a frigging truck! Ok, it's a start, but a truck??? I don't think that's what Joe Commuter was looking for. They just seem to continually miss the boat.
Methanolandbrats
03-24-05, 12:24 PM
Show some damn innovation already!
They try, they really do, that's the problem and why it's hopeless.
http://www.pontiac.com/aztek/images/brand_models.jpg
Now that they've unleashed it, all they have to do is shave its ass and teach it to walk backwards.
WickerBill
03-24-05, 12:50 PM
Within five years, all Chevy sedans and small cars will be built 100% by Daewoo -- mark my words. Chevy will be "positioned" as a low-end throw-away brand, if it's not already.
Yes, I own two Chevys... but I have to....
WB
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/104904/page008.html?tid=asv.e.autoshow..leftnav.9.*
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/104904/page008.html?tid=asv.e.autoshow..leftnav.9.*
Nice car, but at ~$70K, it's competing with the Mercedes SL500. That's a losing game.
Michaelhatesfans
03-24-05, 02:00 PM
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/104904/page008.html?tid=asv.e.autoshow..leftnav.9.*
"Like all of the other V-Series vehicles, the XLR-V features a wire-mesh grille."
Wooooooo!!!! Where do I sign up???!!!!
:laugh:
Methanolandbrats
03-24-05, 02:06 PM
"Like all of the other V-Series vehicles, the XLR-V features a wire-mesh grille."
Wooooooo!!!! Where do I sign up???!!!!
:laugh: Home Depot sells those grills. You can put one on your current rig :)
"Like all of the other V-Series vehicles, the XLR-V features a wire-mesh grille."
Wooooooo!!!! Where do I sign up???!!!!
:laugh:
You missed the important. "Hey, Lutz, you're fired."
And why does GM think that they need a Camaro and a Firebird?
Unfortunately, they don't make either anymore. I think they stopped in 2002.
When I could finally afford the car and insurance, they diiscontinue it :cry:
racer2c
03-24-05, 03:39 PM
Unfortunately, they don't make either anymore. I think they stopped in 2002.
When I could finally afford the car and insurance, they diiscontinue it :cry:
According Road and Track, four out of five pony cars sold were Mustangs.
oddlycalm
03-24-05, 04:05 PM
They try, they really do, that's the problem and why it's hopeless. You're right. This is what happens when you spend decades encouraging insular thinking, discourage innovation, and allow your best people to get cherry picked for better jobs elsewhere. Then, to put on a crowning touch, you let bloodless accountants and outsiders run the company into the ground for 30yrs. When you don't recognize that the people that know how to do the work are the only asset that matters, you shouldn't be running a company that employes a quarter million people. Similarly, if you don't understand and appreciate cars, you should not be running an automobile company. The day the company closed the GM building in New York and allowed the financial people into the corporate offices in Detroit was the beginning of the end.
The saddest aspect of this is that millions of people depend on this company, either directly or indirectly, for their living. What is really being pissed away here is peoples lives along with investors equity. Watching this company do the slow belly flop over the last 30yrs has been painful because it's totally unecessary.
oc
I had read somewhere yesterday (trying to find it) that if GM went insolvent, it would be worse than Enron.
Great post, oc. I worked with a section of GM for a couple years, and there are some excellent people there. It's too bad their excellence can't be harnessed in the GM system.
racer2c
03-24-05, 05:11 PM
That's what happens when you hire a former VP from a toothpaste manufacturer to head up car design and a former VP from a cereal manufacture to head up marketing. GM has been without 'car guys' since Harley Earl. Then they hire retired 70 year old Bob Lutz of Chrysler fame to turn things around in the design department and tie his hands behind his back.
Michaelhatesfans
03-24-05, 05:12 PM
Unfortunately, they don't make either anymore. I think they stopped in 2002.
You're right, but I honestly didn't realize it had been that long. I guess that shows my passion for GM at the moment... :laugh:
Redwing
03-24-05, 06:42 PM
This is bad, worse than usual because they actually tried this time. They got in Lutz, un-crapped the Aztek, got the Solstice, the GTO and have the best lineup for Cadillac for a long time. They are, unfortunately, reaping the seeds of woe that they sowed for the last 20 years (sure the Solstice looks great on paper, but do you trust it? Saturn's Vision dropped 20% in acceptance in market research when it was revealed who made it.) If this fails, then what?
racer2c
03-24-05, 07:09 PM
This is bad, worse than usual because they actually tried this time. They got in Lutz, un-crapped the Aztek, got the Solstice, the GTO and have the best lineup for Cadillac for a long time. They are, unfortunately, reaping the seeds of woe that they sowed for the last 20 years (sure the Solstice looks great on paper, but do you trust it? Saturn's Vision dropped 20% in acceptance in market research when it was revealed who made it.) If this fails, then what?
But in typical GM form, they hired Lutz because of his genius at Chrysler by being able to take a concept car to production in 13 months. Mr. Lutz took risks that the company knew it had to do in order to stir up much needed attention. Unfortunately, the Germans have changed all that but that's another subject. So the word is Bob got in there, pushed hard for the release of the incredibly stupid SST sport pickup and then he's been up against a wall on everything else.
The Solstice still hasn't hit the streets but debuted three years ago on the show circuit. It's attractive but way over weight and uncompetitive to it's two seater peers.
Cadillac is making the best cars they've ever made, but they are still far behind their German and Japanese competitors.
The GTO is nothing but a ten year old Holden which the US press has all but panned and has made about as much 'buzz' in the streets as a street sweeper.
Saturns Vision bombed when it was discovered their continuous variable transmission was Junk with a capital J. And the damage was done when the Aztec debuted, no polishing that turd.
I heard this week the HQ has accelerated their plans of bringing their next line of large pickup and SUVs to market because those have the largest profit margin which GM needs. At a time when oil prices are at an all time high and their competition is accelerating high mileage vehicle lines, GM is rolling out their biggest lineup of behemoth gas guzzlers.
If there was ever a car company that did (does) things backwards, it's General Motors.
The pickup line is a good profit model. Look at Ford and the F-150. I read that the F-150 pays for all operations at Ford, and everything else pays for R&D. F-150 had 912,000+ sold last year. I think GM wants a piece of that.
I am guessing now would not be a good time to admit I just bought a GMC
crew cab..... :gomer:
I am guessing now would not be a good time to admit I just bought a GMC
crew cab..... :gomer:
Always thought they were nicer than the Ford's. Easier to drive to.
I bought a Suburban 6 months ago. Before anyone gives me crap about a gas guzzler, I do pull a travel trailer with it. I actually use it for what it was designed for, not a status symbol.
Michaelhatesfans
03-24-05, 08:03 PM
I bought a Suburban 6 months ago. Before anyone gives me crap about a gas guzzler, I do pull a travel trailer with it. I actually use it for what it was designed for, not a status symbol.
Man, I was just about to put the cross hairs on you... :laugh:
racer2c
03-24-05, 08:13 PM
The US auto press gives GM trucks more praise then any other GM vehicle. I'm not a GM fan, but I prefer the weighted steering feel of the GM truck line over the overly power assisted steering of the Ford line, but the Fords have a better 'drivability' than the harsh GM's. But I actually think the Dodge feels the best overall.
WickerBill
03-24-05, 08:34 PM
GM is doomed if Toyo's investment in NASCAR starts eating away at their truck marketshare. GM has assumed for years that they can't be touched, that people who buy trucks will never buy foreign. They're waking up, but not fast enough. While they don't beat Ford in full-size trucks, that's all they have keeping them afloat (well, that and GMAC) right now.
When I heard this the other day, I wondered why on Earth GM/Buick is investing million$ in Tiger to promote Buick. :rolleyes: Of course, their investment in having Oprey promote the G6 worked out just as well. :gomer: GM's marketing is just about on par with their engineering. :shakehead
-Kevin
oddlycalm
03-25-05, 12:17 AM
The US auto press gives GM trucks more praise then any other GM vehicle. I'm not a GM fan, but I prefer the weighted steering feel of the GM truck line over the overly power assisted steering of the Ford line, but the Fords have a better 'drivability' than the harsh GM's. But I actually think the Dodge feels the best overall. I think all three US companies make really good trucks, it's their cars that aren't competitive. The problem is that the current truck/SUV bubble is about to burst, and once again these companies will be in dire straights.
The big three built good trucks all over the world. You haven't lived until you've driven a DeSoto pickup from the Chrysler Sanayi operation in Turkey. ;) They looked funky but they were tough as nails and came with the bullet proof Slant Six. :thumbup: DeSoto sweptside (http://www.roadkillontheweb.com/images/deswep.jpg)
I guess my point is that GM, Ford and Chrysler have really great histories, and not just in the US. At one point all were managed by people with vision, guts, and a get it done attitude. Their stockholders, their employees and this country deserve a hell of a lot more than is being delivered today.
oc
eiregosod
03-25-05, 12:53 AM
FYI, Within the past 6 months, Chevy has been selling its cars over here . no doubt its due to the weak dollar.
Michaelhatesfans
03-25-05, 04:09 AM
FYI, Within the past 6 months, Chevy has been selling its cars over here . no doubt its due to the weak dollar.
The US models, or are they just rebadging the Opel/Vauxhalls?
(Edit)
Never mind, I just found this...
http://www.kylemorechevrolet.ie/
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