View Full Version : Branding success
Do a little experiment. Enter "champ car" into your favorite search engine. Now try "indy car". Use quotes so that only the exact phrase returns results.
In every search engine I tested Champ car returns two or three times more results than "Indy car". That's pretty impressive when you consider that almost ten years ago when CART lost the Indy Car trademark there was a real question about what we should call the cars, nevermind whether they could ever build a strong brand around it.
I don't think the search engine results prove that the Champ car brand is more widely known than Indy car outside the sport, but I do think it represents a lot of progress in building the brand among fans and starting to push it into a wider awareness. Not so long ago you saw champ cars referred to as "Indy-style" cars a lot more often than you do today.
Now I just wish we could get Molson and our Aussie friends on board for phasing out the "I" word and focusing on the Champ car brand.
What happens when you try Marlo's wedding?
racer2c
03-25-05, 01:10 AM
I even heard Micheal Waltrip :gomer: say Champ Car when referring to Jourdain Jr. Not IndyCar, not CART car, not open wheel car. I do think it's an established label, but I think it has a ways to go for mainstream recognition.
Just for grins, I tried entering "Chimp Cars". Lookee at what came up..
could a chimp design a car? could you?
... http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/166566. Listed below are links to weblogs that reference could a chimp design a car? could you?: ...
tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/ 2003/09/could_a_chimp_d.html - 18k -
Dang it, another irl link. :gomer:
I even heard Micheal Waltrip :gomer: say Champ Car when referring to Jourdain Jr. Not IndyCar, not CART car, not open wheel car. I do think it's an established label, but I think it has a ways to go for mainstream recognition.
They've been champcars for me since my dad took me to IRP to see "that Andretti kid" road race. That's a long time ago. ;)
What happens when you try Marlo's wedding?
1995, Steve, 1995 :shakehead :shakehead
:D
Now I just wish we could get Molson and our Aussie friends on board for phasing out the "I" word and focusing on the Champ car brand.
So do I. Unfortunately, Molson has paid enuff $$$ to the IMS braintrust and marketed the crap outta the name that it has it's own brand in Canada.
And that's sad.
racer2c
03-25-05, 10:44 AM
They've been champcars for me since my dad took me to IRP to see "that Andretti kid" road race. That's a long time ago. ;)
My pop called 'em the "big cars". :)
Those who know, know.
My pop called 'em the "big cars". :)
Those who know, know.
There was racing before 1996 or 1979, wasn't there? :)
My dad used the term "big car," too. But that was reserved for the dirt championship cars. I remember him telling me that because there was at least one front engined car on the track at IRP that day that had what I thought was a funny old fashioned look like the old GP cars in his books. :)
From Google...
555,000 for "indycar"
277,000 for "indy car"
809,000 for "champ car"
192,000 for "champcar"
13,400 for "crapwagon"
CART T. Katz
03-25-05, 11:33 AM
i actually don't mind the i word being used in other countries for our races. it shows that the people outside of this country know what the real indycars are and where they race.
besides, anything that would piss off the gomers and tg can't all be bad right?
On that IRP race...was that '66 or '67? Rained like hell, long delay? I was there...funny as hell watching that roadster try to TURN...didn't somebody flip it and lose a foot in the process. Weld? I can't remember. Have some nice slides of Gurney's Eagle from that one. I'm guessing it was 6 or 7 because my brother hadn't left for Vietnam yet and I think I was soon off to ol' EIU! I'll have to check the archives! :)
On that IRP race...was that '66 or '67? Rained like hell, long delay? I was there...funny as hell watching that roadster try to TURN...didn't somebody flip it and lose a foot in the process. Weld? I can't remember. Have some nice slides of Gurney's Eagle from that one. I'm guessing it was 6 or 7 because my brother hadn't left for Vietnam yet and I think I was soon off to ol' EIU! I'll have to check the archives! :)
Dad and I were there in '65 and '66. The first race was just damned hot in the way of a Hoosier late summer. For '66 I remember sitting in the car with dad eating ham and american cheese on whitebread sandwichs and drinking luke warm 7oz. Cokes while waiting for the rain to stop. We didn't go in '67 and I don't even know if there was a race at IRP that year.
ps: I was 9 and 10 for those races. This explains why we are champcar fans -- we've been brain addled by methanol fumes since we were kids! :)
Was '66 then, the rain year. Haven't looked for the pics yet, but I remember ground level shots with big oil storage tanks in the background. Also we got stopped by Indiana's finest on the way home. The muffler just FELL OFF! Dad's New Yorker with that "Golden Lion" 413 was pretty LOUD! (we showed him the rusty, still warm remains in the trunk, and he let us go! :D I remember having to help pay for gas, too. Pretty sure I recall pumping at .32/gal! :rofl: (of course, I was only making $1.72/hr. then, Piggly Wiggly, "Would you like carport with this order, Ma'am? :thumbup: )
Holy sh...thats only the equivalent of working for $12.10/hr. today! (at $2.25/gal.) Man, gas is CHEAP! :D
Railbird
03-25-05, 05:25 PM
I went to all the races at IRP '65 thru '70 although my "seat" was a tree limb outside the backstretch in '65 & 66. Norm Hall was the guy who flipped his roadster and lost a foot.
Yes, Hall! Poor guy. I didn't see the wreck but I remember a magazine picture later of the car digging in the dirt, standing on it's nose. Gee, 3 guys at the same race talking about it 39 yrs. later! Been a heckuva ride. :)
Railbird
03-25-05, 10:31 PM
Strange enough I imagine pchall, paper, myself and quite a few others crossed paths at one time or the other many years ago when Indy was really the American pinnacle.
It's a small world populated by strange people.
It's a small world populated by strange people.
I'm glad you didn't include me in your group. :D
Railbird
03-25-05, 11:08 PM
You and Zig aren't near that old.
How many for Chimpcar?
Chimp car - 220,000
:laugh:
You and Zig aren't near that old.
Wanna bet? :gomer:
Yeah, I've seen the "other" Steve H. He's no spring chicken! :p
Or...could it be a strange world populated with small people?
Mike Kellner
03-26-05, 03:12 AM
13,400 for "crapwagon"...
Of course, that term has only been around since 97. :laugh:
When I was a kid, they were called Big Cars. I think Champ Cars referred to USAC Sprint Cars back then, but I am not sure.
mk
Railbird
03-26-05, 08:19 AM
I remember it kind of differently Mike.
I recall my dad and grandfather refering to the sprinters as Big Cars but have seen the term also used to describe Champcars in old books/adds/dcuments. Champ Cars were the cars of the Championsip Trail. Big Car's use seems to date pre WWII while Champcar's use seemingly began with the post WWII invasion from the west coast midget/roadster guys.
but as noted I'm old and of somewhat faded memory
And funny enough the abbreviation "Indy" also had a California origin but rather than comming from the competitiors and cool guys like Watson and Epperly it came from the freakin Beach Boys and their lame old song "Fun Fun Fun". As an extra added attraction both "Indy" and "Indycars" were terms hated by one Anton Hulman.
I think Big Cars predates Indy Cars as originally the term was used simply to differentiate from the "little" cars, the midgets, which were SO popular in the '30s and '40s. Up until the late '40s/early '50s the Big Cars WERE the Indy Cars, almost all dirt cars running on bricks. I think the only relationship between Big and Sprint cars came after the dirt cars were no longer adaptable to pavement and the old Indy/dirt cars became sprinters? The roadster era and the term Indy Cars sort of coincide, don't you think? The beginning of pavement specialization? Champ Car was always used to describe the Championship Trail, as noted, even when it included almost all dirt cars and tracks. In any case, it ain't NEW! :)
I remember it kind of differently Mike.
I recall my dad and grandfather refering to the sprinters as Big Cars but have seen the term also used to describe Champcars in old books/adds/dcuments. Champ Cars were the cars of the Championsip Trail. Big Car's use seems to date pre WWII while Champcar's use seemingly began with the post WWII invasion from the west coast midget/roadster guys.
but as noted I'm old and of somewhat faded memory
I remember my dad calling Indy cars, "big cars" back in the mid 60's around the time when roadsters were being replaced by rear engine cars.
CART License
03-26-05, 12:43 PM
167,000,000 for CART
Mike Kellner
03-26-05, 01:09 PM
Another thought. Something has to be done about Molson and "IndyWhatever". I know they are a valued sponsor, and they have a lot of money invested in MolsonIndy, but they have to get with the program. MolsonChamps or some such appellation could be found. They could even use it as the focal point of this year's campaign.
While we are at it, isn't it time to take the term "Grand Prix" off of our races as well? Long Beach Championship, Long Beach Championship Race, or Long Beach ChampCars anyone? How are we going to properly brand ourselves if we are using someone else's name?
mk
chop456
03-26-05, 01:28 PM
Agreed. The Indy name is damaged goods and becomes more irrelavent with every passing day. It's up to the promoters to decide, but if you're going to hitch your wagon to something, make it a star, not a diseased donkey.
Champ Car can commit themselves to moving forward along with the promoters, or continue to confuse themselves with a league unable to sell tickets to what were their most successful races. When 50,000+ people don't show up for an IRL event they've already paid for, it's not a sign of a valuable name.
Another thought. Something has to be done about Molson and "IndyWhatever". I know they are a valued sponsor, and they have a lot of money invested in MolsonIndy, but they have to get with the program. MolsonChamps or some such appellation could be found. They could even use it as the focal point of this year's campaign.
While we are at it, isn't it time to take the term "Grand Prix" off of our races as well? Long Beach Championship, Long Beach Championship Race, or Long Beach ChampCars anyone? How are we going to properly brand ourselves if we are using someone else's name?
mk
Geez Mike, your starting to sound like some of our favorite friends over at TF :gomer:
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56295&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I'd guess it's up to Molson, though outside pressure could be applied. I wouldn't mind that, but in Australia "Indy" is even more ingrained, and always used without even a THOUGHT of the 500. That'd be a tougher one to change, but we could use KKs connections to help there! The Grand Prix term is quite generic I believe, and not in any way harmful. I remember when it was simply another term for an F-1 race, but no more. It's used for everything from horse shows to bicycle races. The Molson Edmonton ChampCar Grand Prix is not the least obnoxious sounding to me. :)
Mike Kellner
03-26-05, 02:35 PM
In this case, we agree, but our reasons are different.
They are worried that ChampCar, or C^RT/OWRS/3AmigosRacingSeries or whatever they call it these days, is stealing "Their" name.
I am worried that we are wasting time on establishing our own identity.
I think we need to come up with a name for our races that is easy to say, similar to Grand Prix or Indy, that clearly identifies our races as ours, and make everyone use it as part of the contract. Champ has to be part of the name. It is a great marketing tool, to bill each race as a "Championship Event", which implies high stakes and top notch competition.
mk
OK, OK, How 'bout..."The ChampCar Open Wheel Racing Series Presented by Bridgestone and Powered by Fo...uh, Cosworth", brings you the,...ahhhh, nevermind. "ChampCar Grand Prix" still sounds good to me. Also "ChampCar World Series"...I pushed that vigorously a ways back. That doesn't make ME think of baseball. Notice I'm still one of those people who think ChampCar should be one word, 2 caps, when referring to the series, but the car itself is still a Champcar. I don't even THINK of the OWRS, or whatever the official title is. The "ChampCar World Series AT The Long Beach Grand Prix"? Sounds good to me.
To the masses in the U.S. I think "Grand Prix" is more synonymous with "road race" than anything specific to F1. I don't have a problem with that. (Although the lemmings criticizing its use when the IRL claims a "Grand Prix" at St. Pete is pretty funny).
Mike Kellner
03-26-05, 04:11 PM
OK, OK, How 'bout..."The ChampCar Open Wheel Racing Series Presented by Bridgestone and Powered by Fo...uh, Cosworth",
Very funny; but get real, you know no one would be dumb enough to use a name that long and stupid sounding. :laugh:
mk
oddlycalm
03-26-05, 04:44 PM
It's long past time to lose the "Indy" from the titles of non-US races. On the other hand grand prix is a more generic term, at least since the 1960's.
I find it mildly amusing that due to typically insular thinking at the IMS it never occurred to them to register their trademark anywhere but in the US, but not enough to be in favor of it's continued use.
oc
I find it mildly amusing that due to typically insular thinking at the IMS it never occurred to them to register their trademark anywhere but in the US, but not enough to be in favor of it's continued use.
Which begs the question. Does Tony does, or does he doesn't get paid for Molson using the "I" word? The lemmings say he does, but I've also heard it said that the trademark isn't valid outside the states.
Rogue Leader
03-26-05, 07:05 PM
correct the trademark is not valid outside the US, and I dont really know if he has trademarked it anyway. He probably has "IndyCar" trademarked, but Indy is a term that is not only synonimous with the speedway, and therefore he may not be able to trademark it.
PS IMO Grand Prix is not F1centric, and we should definitely still use it.
Indy by itself shouldn't be a valid trademark in the US either.
Which begs the question. Does Tony does, or does he doesn't get paid for Molson using the "I" word? The lemmings say he does, but I've also heard it said that the trademark isn't valid outside the states.
To the masses in the U.S. I think "Grand Prix" is more synonymous with "road race" than anything specific to F1. I don't have a problem with that. (Although the lemmings criticizing its use when the IRL claims a "Grand Prix" at St. Pete is pretty funny).
It was really funny when the gomers got a "Nissan Grand Prix of Miami" for their first race at Homestead after all those years of criticizing CART's use of the term Grand Prix. The first use of Grand Prix or Grand Prize in US racing I've run into goes all the way back to the Savannah road races circa 1911-1912, events which featured the American Grand Prize and the Vanderbilt Cup.
Cart Champion
03-28-05, 09:55 PM
17,000,000 for F-1
18,000,000 for F1
11,900,000 for Grand Prix
922,000 for open wheel racing
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