Please help open wheeled racing

[race chica]

In response to some of the threads about Champ Car and IRL and responses relating to them i am posting this. make of it what you want. Its just my opinion

why cant we all just get along....

it's racing 4 wheels, a motor and NO DOORS or HEADLIGHTS. if we want open wheeled racing to stay a float and not be more overshadowed by NASCAR then it already is we have to get along. Open Wheeled Fans untite... if we want this kind (our kind) of racing to still be around for the next generation to love and enjoy as much as we have we have to get along.

Not bash former CART drivers and call them gay or homosexual and not bash those who support the different series on the forums. it makes us (as opened wheeled racing fans) look really bad. if we cant unite and support our "own kind" then what does the future look like?

[racer2c]

The future is so bright I have to wear shades. But not homo shades like Weldon wears. Sorry, couldn't resist. Noble sentiments though RC. :thumbup: ;)

[cart7]

This ain't 7th Gear rc. ;)

[nrc]

Why can't we all just get along? Because there isn't enough room in American open wheel racing for two series. I love the sport, but there's no way I'll ever follow a series controlled by Tony George.

So anyone who supports that series is a threat to the sport that I love. Whether they're directly out to crush Champ car, or whether they claim to believe that the two series can co-exist.

[Racing Truth]

It's amazing how few seem to watch both. I'm one of the "nutjobs" that still does, and likely always will.

That doesn't mean I am a fan of what Tony George has done, but I'll be damned if that stops from enjoying racing.

The one thing I do tire of is the pack racing, ala Homestead. WAY too much downforce.

But I'll watch St. Petersburg, and am eagerly awaiting the ChampCar debut at Long Beach. :thumbup:

Good post rc.

[RaceGrrl]

This ain't 7th Gear rc. ;)

You got that right.

[cart7]

I might suggest that if you find our toasting of all that is the irl offensive you might want to go here

earl friendly website (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/)

You'll find plenty of folks there who'll just love to talk earl racing with ya without degrading any of those fine ex-Cart f**kers who abandoned the series and sold their souls for some yen......


oh, sorry.. :gomer:

[dando]

Get along meaning assimilate with the other series under their rules? No way. Have the other series forced down our throats? Ain't gonna happen. That is precisely what has been offered to unify to date. I would prefer to see OW die than exist in a shell of itself (its already doing that tho).

I would only agree to a compromise that didn't include a certain individual who threw a tantrum, took his toys away, and decided to play by himself. I don't agree with his actions, nor do I agree with the the 'principles' that supposedly caused his actions.

This runs far deeper for those of us that are left. It reaches the depth of politics or religion. It's black or white. You're in or you're out. I don't like being a hater, but it's kind of like a forced occupation.

In short, FTG! :mad:

EDIT: I refrain from bashing anyone that hasn't bashed the other side in the past...only to find the Yen greener on the other side. Sorry. I cannot stand anyone that is two faced. Period.

-Kevin

[extramundane]

it's racing 4 wheels, a motor and NO DOORS or HEADLIGHTS.

There's a large number of us who happen to like doors and headlights on racecars.

[nissan gtp]

I can get along if the earl dies.

Otherwise, the battle continues

[FCYTravis]

What extramundane said.

Of course, no doors and headlights work too :)

[Sean O'Gorman]

There's a large number of us who happen to like doors and headlights on racecars.

Unless those cars have cockpits that aren't aesthetically pleasing, right?

[Dr. Corkski]

Here we go again... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Spicoli]

I hate EARL. If you like EARL, you are not my friend.

You asked.

[Railbird]

why cant we all just get along....

I tried that for a while, didn't come close to working.

Throw that in with the IRL management sucking and their racing being centered around a failing event and it's easy to find other motorsports to fill in my schedule.

[Wingnut]

if we cant unite and support our "own kind" then what does the future look like?

:thumbsdown:

Sorry, but the EARL isn't my kind. Never has been and never will be. THEY are the ones destroying OWR and should take the high road and just go away. IMHO.

[racer2c]

The day BiF stops sending me fake Jiffy Lube coupons via email saying things like "Get 10% OFf yourz NexT OwL Chanj You CArt SreET RaCe LOSRR!", is the day I stop thinking Helio likes climbing more than just fences. :)

[pchall]

There was a reason why we all bailed from 7G...

[racer2c]

There was a reason why we all bailed from 7G...

Silva! :)

[Amanda B.'s Mom]

OK, reality check here......

What are the talented drivers who came up through the CART ladder system supposed to do? Just sit at home waiting for a call from the many Champ Car teams who trested them, who showed interest6 in them, who said that they would get a ride if theuy came up with sponsorship $$$? The reality of the matter is that trhere have been so many talented CART/Champ Car ladder sustem drivers who have not gotten rides in OWRS. They love to drive. That is what they know best.

Does everyone here feel that they should just discaard their talents and dreams because the Champ CAr teams need $$$? I know several drivers who chose not to go to the IR: after being xhunned by CART. They are either driver coaches, working at a job that does not involve racing, or in the ALMS/Grand Am series now. These people have expenses just like the rest of us. Is a person expected to not have thenecessary molney to pay their bills, just to remain loyaly to OWRS? To me that is a unrealistic expectation. And....to say that many of these drivers are gay is rediculous. I know of one driver who is accused of being gay who was definately not gay when he was hitting on my daughter. There is another driver who has been accused of being gay who is narried. There is another who is in a serious relationship with a female :eek: Come on people........There are presently two top level (said tongue in cheek) Open Wheel Racing series based in the US. The US market for this type of racing is not enough to support two series. It is up to the fans and sponsors to decide who is left after the dust settles.

I strongly feel that if the Off Camber "Other RAcing" forum is just for bashing all the other series that exist, then it should be eliminated. I am not just saying this because my daughter has good friends that were shunned by CART/OWRS and "forced?" to drive in the IRL. I would say this if anyone else had started this thread.

If people cannot be mature here, then stay away from thids forum.

Beth

[Sean O'Gorman]

Silva! :)

If I recall correctly, you didn't bail, you were shown the door. ;)

[racer2c]

There was a reason why we all bailed from 7G...

Revised: Sean O' Gorman! :)

[FCYTravis]

So we're all just supposed to join hands and sing Kumbaya? :rolleyes:

[racer2c]

If I recall correctly, you didn't bail, you were shown the door. ;)

Stalker.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Stalker.

http://www.mr2oc.com/images/xtrasmilies/Call%20Me.gif

[Dr. Corkski]

Get a room.

[B3RACER1a]

There is zero integrity from the folks that run the IRL. And yes, I think some of the drivers are trapped there. But, that doesnt stop the drivers, teams, and owners from trying to change whats wrong from the inside. They went there to follow the money train, and now are going to be stuck with a dying series.

So basically, screw the IRL. :thumbup:

[racer2c]

OK, reality check here......

What are the talented drivers who came up through the CART ladder system supposed to do? Just sit at home waiting for a call from the many Champ Car teams who trested them, who showed interest6 in them, who said that they would get a ride if theuy came up with sponsorship $$$? The reality of the matter is that trhere have been so many talented CART/Champ Car ladder sustem drivers who have not gotten rides in OWRS. They love to drive. That is what they know best.

Does everyone here feel that they should just discaard their talents and dreams because the Champ CAr teams need $$$? I know several drivers who chose not to go to the IR: after being xhunned by CART. They are either driver coaches, working at a job that does not involve racing, or in the ALMS/Grand Am series now. These people have expenses just like the rest of us. Is a person expected to not have thenecessary molney to pay their bills, just to remain loyaly to OWRS? To me that is a unrealistic expectation. And....to say that many of these drivers are gay is rediculous. I know of one driver who is accused of being gay who was definately not gay when he was hitting on my daughter. There is another driver who has been accused of being gay who is narried. There is another who is in a serious relationship with a female :eek: Come on people........There are presently two top level (said tongue in cheek) Open Wheel Racing series based in the US. The US market for this type of racing is not enough to support two series. It is up to the fans and sponsors to decide who is left after the dust settles.

I strongly feel that if the Off Camber "Other RAcing" forum is just for bashing all the other series that exist, then it should be eliminated. I am not just saying this because my daughter has good friends that were shunned by CART/OWRS and "forced?" to drive in the IRL. I would say this if anyone else had started this thread.

If people cannot be mature here, then stay away from thids forum.

Beth


I don't blame a hungry young driver from landing a seat in any racing series they can get a paycheck from. What I do have a problem with are the ex-CART drivers who made their millions off of CART (and us fans) and went on record denouncing the IRL but gave in to the yen anyway *cough*Mikey, Dario, Helio, Kanaan*. Not to mention the money grubbing, two faced team owners like Penske and Ganassi. Screw them and the crapwagons they ride around in.

[Hot Rod Otis]

Some wishful thinking there Race Chica, touching, but a bit dated. The time for putting it all behind us and all getting along is long past. That coulda happened in 1999, when a merger was supposedly close until Anton blew it off. There was a chance then. Now? Fuggettaboutit. All thats left now are a dwindling number of die hards on either side who ain't gonna forgive or forget. We've become the modern day versions of those WW2 Imperial Japanese Navy admirals who stood on the bridge at attention and went down with their aircraft carriers. As for me, I really don't give a crap anymore, but what the hell, I've ridden it this long, might as well ride her out.

GO TIMO GLOCK!!!!

[Methanolandbrats]

that many of these drivers are gay is rediculous. I know of one driver who is accused of being gay who was definately not gay when he was hitting on my daughter. There is another driver who has been accused of being gay who is narried. There is another who is in a serious relationship with a female Come on people........
Obviously they are Bi. Try TrackForum and feel the love

[Lizzerd]

Get along? NO!

In most cases, I don't have a problem with a driver going to the Dark Side to keep a job. It is the likes of FMikey, FCaptain, FRahole, et al, whom I disdain and wish upon horrible consequences for their actions.

And the Leader of the Pack of Whores... well, we all know about him.

Gettiing along is not an option.

Edit: I forgot FAdrian.

[JohnnyQ]

And....to say that many of these drivers are gay is rediculous. I know of one driver who is accused of being gay who was definately not gay when he was hitting on my daughter. There is another driver who has been accused of being gay who is narried. There is another who is in a serious relationship with a female :eek:
Beth

Hey you have to do what it takes to keep your job. Rock Hudson did it.

[Al Czervik]

I don't have a problem with the IRL per se, but I do have a problem with a few things.

#1. The Indy 500, which was once the greatest race in the world, has become a shadow of its former self.

#2. Open wheel formula cars have NO business "racing" on high banked tracks. The high downforce pack "racing" at places like Texas is stupid, borderline criminal.

#3. One man's attempt to control what is not his to control has deminished (sp ???) what was the greatest racing series.

For that all I can say is FTG and all that is associated with him.

Maybe I shouldn't feel the way I feel, but I see what is and what could be, and I can't help but lay the blame on The Idiot Grandson.

I don't think I'm alone.

[Spicoli]

There was a reason why we all bailed from 7G...


,,,,peace,,,in racing,,,,?

[Methanolandbrats]

fer chist sakes. this has been done to death since 1996. NO we can't get along.

[pfc_m_drake]

For some people, I think that hating the other series has become much more important than being a fan of your series. That's true of both sides.

IMO, even if CC and the IRL each had 24 fully sponsored cars and were pulling down 5.0+ ratings on TV every week, the bitterness would still exist (see paragraph 1).

In fact, about the only other argument that I can think of that's carried on with as much venom is that of the AMD vs. Intel fanboys.

[extramundane]

Unless those cars have cockpits that aren't aesthetically pleasing, right?

My advice: let it go. This thread is neither the time nor the place.

[nrc]

I strongly feel that if the Off Camber "Other RAcing" forum is just for bashing all the other series that exist, then it should be eliminated. I am not just saying this because my daughter has good friends that were shunned by CART/OWRS and "forced?" to drive in the IRL. I would say this if anyone else had started this thread.

If people cannot be mature here, then stay away from thids forum.

Beth
OffCamber is a forum for Champ Car enthusiasts. The Others forum is a place for Champ Car enthusiasts to talk about other types of racing. There is no requirement that anyone here like or dislike any other form of racing. There is certainly no rule against speaking up about the fact that you dislike a particular form of racing or even a particular person or driver from the racing world. While we strive to keep the level of discussion out of the mire, "immaturity" is not specifically against the rules.

[DjDrOmusic]

I tried to get along, I really did. I once had he atitude that if both series were around, it was better for me, an open wheel fan. I was a member of forums that were both pro CART and pro IRL, and I tried to walk a thin line of being just a fan. Then I was verbally acosted for daring to give an opinion of the Great UndraCHEEVER, and I was told that my children were born out of wedlock and that my wife was a canine, just because i was using more than 2 braincells at once. I have listened to arguments for both sides, and one thing seems to be quite obvious, Champ Car is the legitimate series and the one EVERY team in American open wheel racing should be in.

[Amanda B.'s Mom]

OK, so I sp;ent 30 minutes writing a response to this and lost it. It is not the "fault" of the drivers for being shunned by OWRS. there is no fault here. If one feels it necessaary to bash someone for needing to pay their billls, then bash me. I have compromised everything I believe in for that reason. I have compromised myse;f. this is wht many drivers in the IRL have done. Like them, I am doing something that I am good at and love to do.

Let those without sin here cast the first stone..... But I will requyire documentation ;)

Beth

[racer2c]

OK, so I sp;ent 30 minutes writing a response to this and lost it. It is not the "fault" of the drivers for being shunned by OWRS. there is no fault here. If one feels it necessaary to bash someone for needing to pay their billls, then bash me. I have compromised everything I believe in for that reason. I have compromised myse;f. this is wht many drivers in the IRL have done. Like them, I am doing something that I am good at and love to do.

Let those without sin here cast the first stone..... But I will requyire documentation ;)

Beth

I, along with many of my OC brothers and sisters, have ten years of hatred against the IRL. Ten years! Ten years in which Tony George has tried to kill Champ Car at every turn. Actually, my grandfather couldn't stand many of the 'Indy gang', namely the Agajanian crew going back to the late '60's.

The yen chasing ex-CARTer's helped to fuel the fire as did the unbelievable 1930's German’esque style propaganda that belches from the keyboards of the IRL front office.
If any young driver gets caught in the cross fire, unfortunately he's a casualty of war, but I don't think they are being focused upon. It's the 'big boys' that we despise.
The truth of the matter is this; Champ Car fans will never embrace the IRL and vice versa and the only way there will be one series is if one of them folds.

Re: the IRL drivers. If a driver does publicity photos that make him out to look like a complete GQ wanna be, he's open for ridicule. Even a Champ Car driver would get the same treatment if they went around doing their best 'insert male model name cuz I don’t know any' impersonation.
I wouldn't sweat it. In fact, if I had a friend in the IRL, I would tell him in a friendly way to focus on being a racecar driver, not a teenage heart throb.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well, seeing the way we treat our own existing fans, its no wonder Champ Car has to look overseas for events, all its domestic fans are pricks.

I don't think Amanda is saying "if you like open wheel, go out and watch the IRL" or anything along those lines, but the members of this forum (myself included sometimes) get way too carried away with the way we act towards those with differing opinions and the hostility really accomplishes nothing. So you piss off some IRL fan by pointing out pathetic attendance or how the drivers look like dorks in the website bios, did it really sway anyone's opinion? No, it probably just pisses them off and causes them to dislike Champ Car even more, so in other words, it is probably as effective as my touting of Grand-Am. :D

[Michaelhatesfans]

why cant we all just get along....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Warlock!]

F*** the Earl and all it's worth. If both sides die I will consider it a victory as opposed to a series associated with FTG.

[RTKar]

tg's a liar....really that's all that matters. I don't like liars. As for the drivers, everyone has to eat but don't badmouth the series that either helped you develop your skills, the place where you made your living and frankly would much rather be.

[Methanolandbrats]

F*** the Earl and all it's worth. If both sides die I will consider it a victory as opposed to a series associated with FTG. Yup, but that ain't gonna happen because Champcar has been reborn....again.
As far drivers taking a seat in the IRL for a paycheck, fine. Taking a paycheck and badmouthing Champcar while praising FTG, not acceptable. That is the line some have crossed. I am very tired of going over this, but for the learning disabled I'll say it again. Like many lifelong open wheel fans, I was a fan of Indy and Champcar for over 30 years when FTG had his fit and torpedoed the whole goddamn thing. It took me a couple years to get over the destruction of Indy and now I don't GAF. I will never watch any series that FTG has anything to do with. Never.

[fourrunner]

Every once in awhile you need one of these Champ Car Bonding Threads

Most of our Histories with Champ Car go WAAAAY Back .... To just give up and "Get Along" with Tony George anywhere involved just can't happen

As Far as calling drivers Homo's or Gay .... I think the ones that get that treatment, pretty much invite it !

And from what I've seen on most forum's related to Champ Car... the drivers that get trashed, are the ones that trash Champ Car ... do that and its Open Season as far as I'm concerned!

I don't think most people begrudge a Driver working in his profession no matter if it's a couple of steps down to the IRL !

[Michaelhatesfans]

why cant we all just get along....

Because when you catch some a-hole trying to burn your house down on numerous occasions, you don't invite him over for a BBQ.

[DagoFast]

Threads like this CRACK me up.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Go back and LOOK at where the sport was in '93,'94,'95. Read. Watch the races.
What did you see wrong?

The only thing Ftg and the gomers saw, was they were being left in the dust. They threw out all these complaints about evil engine leases and boring street races and foreign ride buyers, but they embrace all those things now. Have the Palestininan's converted to Judaism? Or after seeing what Israel did with it, do they just want the land?

The sport has spent a decade under the influence of a cokehead.

Can you give me my ten years back? No? Then F/O! :flame:

[Turn7]

The best way to help Formula racing in North America is to berate and belittle the inheritors little experiment as often as possible. Don't watch it, don't buy from the sponsors and let everyone that you know or speak with that has any possibility of watching it, know what a shame and POS it really is.

Kill it off and the will be peace in racing.

[Spicoli]

Kill it off and the will be peace in racing.

because,,,,that is,,,whatis most,,,important,,,to all fans,,god loves us,,,,all,,,

[Chief]

Very eloquently put Turn7. Kill it off isn't necessary, it's DEAD on the vine.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

As far as I'm concerned, Death before Dishonor meaning I'd rather see CC go than join up with FTG and his crap series. :flame:

But that's not going to happen. The I*L will be the one to die.

[Gnam]

You don't "Get Along" with cancer. You cut it out, isolate it, bombard it with radiation, etc. because in the end it's either you or the cancer.

[RacinM3]

"Please help open wheel racing"? That's laughable.

I was helping open wheel racing in the 80's and 90's, by attending events, buying merchandise, travelling to races via car and airplane, on, and on, and on.

Then a jackass tried to take over, and was facilitated by greedy car owners. As a fan, I wasn't entrusted with the long-term viability of the sport, they were. Now, they've squandered it and NASCAR owns (not literally) their asses.

And now you want me to help?

I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me.

[racer2c]

"Please help open wheel racing"? That's laughable.

I was helping open wheel racing in the 80's and 90's, by attending events, buying merchandise, travelling to races via car and airplane, on, and on, and on.

Then a jackass tried to take over, and was facilitated by greedy car owners. As a fan, I wasn't entrusted with the long-term viability of the sport, they were. Now, they've squandered it and NASCAR owns (not literally) their asses.

And now you want me to help?

I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me.

Bravo!! :thumbup:

[lone_groover]

...I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me.

YEAH! and I woke up with my underwears on backwards!

:saywhat:

[JT265]

YEAH! and I woke up with my underwears on backwards!

:saywhat:

At least it was yours underwears groover. How do suppose Gaylio feels? OOPS!!!! I guess that wasn't appropriate in a kinder gentler earl world. :p


As far as earl is concerned, I'll be a fan of the "Milli Vanilli of Racing" one day. Just as soon as hell freezes.

Thanks Mumbles. :mad:

[RichK]

"Please help open wheel racing"? That's laughable.

I was helping open wheel racing in the 80's and 90's, by attending events, buying merchandise, travelling to races via car and airplane, on, and on, and on.

Then a jackass tried to take over, and was facilitated by greedy car owners. As a fan, I wasn't entrusted with the long-term viability of the sport, they were. Now, they've squandered it and NASCAR owns (not literally) their asses.

And now you want me to help?

I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me.


:thumbup: You posted what I was thinking.

[lone_groover]

......How do suppose Gaylio feels? OOPS!!!!


I think he now knows that Bork Warmer is a misnomer.

:eek:

[Methanolandbrats]

"Please help open wheel racing"? That's laughable.

I was helping open wheel racing in the 80's and 90's, by attending events, buying merchandise, travelling to races via car and airplane, on, and on, and on.

Then a jackass tried to take over, and was facilitated by greedy car owners. As a fan, I wasn't entrusted with the long-term viability of the sport, they were. Now, they've squandered it and NASCAR owns (not literally) their asses.

And now you want me to help?

I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me. Double :thumbup: :thumbup:

[trauma1]

FEARL and FTG nuff said, :flame:

[Don Quixote]

What RacinM3 said. :thumbup:

[Wabbit]

Never called any defecters names, but I don't agree with them leaving.

I have not watched an IRL race (other than Indy and news clips). I would not go out of my way to see an IRL race, nor go to one with free tickets. I will however respect people and the decisions if I ever meet one. I will talk to them about the CART accomplishments and play dumb about their IRL dealings.

[Skater_36]

[QUOTE=Methanolandbrats]
As far drivers taking a seat in the IRL for a paycheck, fine. Taking a paycheck and badmouthing Champcar while praising FTG, not acceptable. That is the line some have crossed. QUOTE]

You are correct, switching sides and then badmouthing the series that built your house and paid for a nice lifestyle is unacceptable and at the very least a classless act.

Another fact that some people may be missing is the fact that most of these drivers come from wealthly backgrounds. If they weren't driving in the IRL then they would most likely be back at home running the family business. I seriously doubt that any IRL drivers would be homeless if they were not driving in that series so the whole "doing it for a paycheck" is just another rationalization for selling out.

[Dr. Corkski]

Another fact that some people may be missing is the fact that most of these drivers come from wealthly backgrounds. If they weren't driving in the IRL then they would most likely be back at home running the family business. I seriously doubt that any IRL drivers would be homeless if they were not driving in that series so the whole "doing it for a paycheck" is just another rationalization for selling out.Most of these drivers' families used their wealth for the drivers when they were up and coming so that they can earn a paycheck racing instead of having to go back to the family business.

And you must not have heard about Tony Kanaan sleeping in his F3 team's trailer.

[Sean O'Gorman]

And you must not have heard about Tony Kanaan sleeping in his F3 team's trailer.

So if Kanaan didn't make it as a driver he would've ended up homeless? Uhh, I don't think so.

Racers should consider themselves extremely lucky to get paid to race, I can't imagine what they do to deserve a paycheck in the first place when the rest of the world has boring, hard jobs and so many people spend so much of their money to race as a hobby.

[lone_groover]

Paycheck, schmaycheck. I don't care if they get dental, time-and-a-half, 401K , profit sharing, or bennies.

I hate them, and that's it.

:thumdown: :mad:

[RacinM3]

Racers should consider themselves extremely lucky to get paid to race, I can't imagine what they do to deserve a paycheck in the first place when the rest of the world has boring, hard jobs and so many people spend so much of their money to race as a hobby.

Ahhh...there's a very fine line between wanting to be a race driver and being a wanted race driver.

[Racing Truth]

So if Kanaan didn't make it as a driver he would've ended up homeless? Uhh, I don't think so.

Racers should consider themselves extremely lucky to get paid to race, I can't imagine what they do to deserve a paycheck in the first place when the rest of the world has boring, hard jobs and so many people spend so much of their money to race as a hobby.

No, but I agree with Cork here. Sure, they'll have a job, $$, etc. But THEY WANT TO RACE.

I can't blame them for driving where they can, though I do agree they shouldn't badmouth CC.

[RaceGrrl]

They can race wherever the money is- that's fine. They could admit the fact that they're whoring themselves out for the yen, but none of them do. They're making money, but it doesn't buy my respect or interest.

[Skater_36]

Most of these drivers' families used their wealth for the drivers when they were up and coming so that they can earn a paycheck racing instead of having to go back to the family business.

And you must not have heard about Tony Kanaan sleeping in his F3 team's trailer.

Yeah Doc, everybody has heard the stories about Kanaan. Did he come from a poor family? No.
As far as using the family wealth to become drivers, yes absolutely correct. My point was that most of these guys don't have to race to earn a paycheck so the "doing it for a paycheck" line is just that, a line of BS.

[Racing Truth]

They can race wherever the money is- that's fine. They could admit the fact that they're whoring themselves out for the yen, but none of them do. They're making money, but it doesn't buy my respect or interest.

Well, a wink and a nod would be nice, but in the real world, no one would, or should really be expected to do this.

Badmouthing CC is, however, petulant, backstabbing stufg.

[trauma1]

In response to some of the threads about Champ Car and IRL and responses relating to them i am posting this. make of it what you want. Its just my opinion

why cant we all just get along....

it's racing 4 wheels, a motor and NO DOORS or HEADLIGHTS. if we want open wheeled racing to stay a float and not be more overshadowed by NASCAR then it already is we have to get along. Open Wheeled Fans untite... if we want this kind (our kind) of racing to still be around for the next generation to love and enjoy as much as we have we have to get along.

Not bash former CART drivers and call them gay or homosexual and not bash those who support the different series on the forums. it makes us (as opened wheeled racing fans) look really bad. if we cant unite and support our "own kind" then what does the future look like?

go back to crackforum and depender and indyfool :flame:

[RacinM3]

My point was that most of these guys don't have to race to earn a paycheck so the "doing it for a paycheck" line is just that, a line of BS.

As a generalization this is probably true, but I know for a fact that in certain cases it is not true at all. There are drivers out there whose parents are not wealthy but definitely supported their racing, and sacrificed for it. These drivers are now in some cases supporting wives and children.

If they weren't race drivers, they wouldn't be homeless? That's not really an intelligent argument. Most people here wouldn't be homeless if they weren't in their existing careers, either.

[oddlycalm]

if we want this kind (our kind) of racing to still be around for the next generation to love and enjoy as much as we have we have to get along. The problem is not what we do or how we behave, it's about a power play by a wealthy lout in Indiana who thinks it's his birthright to control US professional formula car racing. Until he's out of the picture there exists a big problem, and pretending it isn't is simply denial.

Bitterness is an entirely appropriate reaction when team owners and drivers that one has supported for their entire careers, some for a period measured in decades, take it upon themselves to move to a different series and spit in our faces. We would be abject idiots if we weren't insulted.

Personally, I don't pay any attention to the younger drivers in that series beyond feeling sorry for them and hoping they don't get killed or maimed. However, for the team owners and drives that have lent their voices to those wishing to kill the series I follow and the kind of racing l like to watch, I have no intention of hiding my disdain.

oc

[Skater_36]

As a generalization this is probably true, but I know for a fact that in certain cases it is not true at all. There are drivers out there whose parents are not wealthy but definitely supported their racing, and sacrificed for it. These drivers are now in some cases supporting wives and children.

If they weren't race drivers, they wouldn't be homeless? That's not really an intelligent argument. Most people here wouldn't be homeless if they weren't in their existing careers, either.

Your painting with a very broad brush. Of course there are drivers in some series that did not grow up in a wealthy family. I'm specifically talking about the drivers that left CART for the IRL then turned around and badmouthed the series that made them name drivers. Are you referring to one or any of those drivers? If so please elaborate. Otherwise, I stick by my statement that the "doing it for a paycheck" line is BS.

[RacinM3]

I guess we both were assuming the other was painting with a very broad brush. I cannot say that the drivers I'm thinking of have bad-mouthed Champ Car.

[TorontoWorker]

If people cannot be mature here, then stay away from thids forum.

Beth

Sorry to have to say this, but... But perhaps if YOU don't like the comments here, then perhaps you should stay away from this forum. See how it gets reversed back at you? Doesn't sound so mature when it goes against your feelings now does it?

Lets agree to disagree and leave it that that and lay off the "quit messing my livingroom up" stuff. Most of us had enough of that at 6.7th gear.com

[JohnnyQ]

"Please help open wheel racing"? That's laughable.

I was helping open wheel racing in the 80's and 90's, by attending events, buying merchandise, travelling to races via car and airplane, on, and on, and on.

Then a jackass tried to take over, and was facilitated by greedy car owners. As a fan, I wasn't entrusted with the long-term viability of the sport, they were. Now, they've squandered it and NASCAR owns (not literally) their asses.

And now you want me to help?

I never abandoned open wheel. The people who run open wheel in the US abandoned me.

Magnifico!