St. Pete Time/Speed Comparo

[NismoZ]

Is this the exact same 1.8 mi. layout CART used? What was the pole time in '03? Is this going to be the first meaningful direct comparison of the two specs? I can't recall discussing any others. Any guesses at the difference?

[Turn7]

Milwaukee, Texas, Fontana, Gateway. No matter what mph was claimed, you can still compare lap times on all of those tracks.

It isn't the first. It probably won't be the last.

The results will be the FNS will be slower.

[racer2c]

I remember a test in Phoenix with teams from both series. The times were not far off each other because the crapwagons with the high downforce and were going through the corners much faster than a Champ Car but the Champ Car had the straight away speed. Although, the IRL drivers were light in the loafers so that cut a few tenths off their times.
What's a crapwagon making in power these days, 750, 800? I don't think their brakes are where Champ Car brakes are, so that will slow them a bit.

[B3RACER1a]

As far as power goes, I think they are riight around 700, maybe a bit less. Brake wise, I think its about the same.

What is going to make the difference is the chassis arent any good for road racing. They just dont have that mechanical grip that Champ Cars do. Also, I doubt that 700 horsepower is very linear....probably very peaky. Then the drag thing...lol.

I predict AT LEAST a 5 second difference in lap times.

[NismoZ]

I'm sorry. I was aware of the oval comparisons. I even remember different lap distances were being used for the same tracks, just to make a judgement more difficult, I suppose. I meant road course comparisons, from tests or something. No biggie. We'll know soon enough.

[racer2c]

As far as power goes, I think they are riight around 700, maybe a bit less. Brake wise, I think its about the same.

What is going to make the difference is the chassis arent any good for road racing. They just dont have that mechanical grip that Champ Cars do. Also, I doubt that 700 horsepower is very linear....probably very peaky. Then the drag thing...lol.

I predict AT LEAST a 5 second difference in lap times.

That's right, they're flat bottom cars aren't they? Penske will use his 40 years of experience and resources (his own shop) to dominate the weekend by being able to adjust his car for more mechanical grip than anyone else.
The reason I mentioned brakes is because it was just recently that they applied road course worthy brakes to the cars and I read they were having some 'issues' with tuning them. Dario, in his Homestead test said, they were destroying brake pads.
This will be a race where the back markers are 10 mph slower than the pole sitter.

[nrc]

Everything about St. Pete goes in "The Others" forum. Otherwise we will end up with a half dozen "comparison" threads in the Champ car forum.

[JohnHKart]

I'm breaking my IRL ban to watch this and the other road courses....This should be interesting...although I have a feeling it's gonna be almost all caution flag laps.

John

[Warlock!]

When the Earl tested down in Sebring early this year (or was it late last year?) a Champcar team or two was there as well, with both series practicing on the short course. IIRC, I thought there was less than 2 seconds difference. Don't be surprised if it's closer than you expected. Honduh And Toyo have raised the bar significantly, being able to push those pigs a lot faster than Chev and Nissan could have thought possible a few years back.

Either way, it'll be fun watching Sham languish in the back with Danicle, just like their old karting days relived. :D

It was not a top-tier Champcar team (no offense if boiler reads this) and they were testing someone unfamiliar w/ Champcars. The comparison was against Team Cheeber and the difference was 1-1.5 secs. So I guess it could be as much as 4-5 secs.

[nrc]

I'm breaking my IRL ban to watch this and the other road courses....This should be interesting...although I have a feeling it's gonna be almost all caution flag laps.

John

So Mikey is right. All they gotta do is add more road races.

[lone_groover]

Gotta agree with my dear friend racer2c on this one. Helio's absolutely going to run away and hide. Barring contact or mecrapical problems, Horni and the rest won't even know he had been there, exept for the faint whiff of Elizabeth Taylor's "White Diamonds" in the little freak's wake.

:)

[pferrf1]

Yes - they made a change on the back side of the track, I believe the turn a curve into a 90 degree turn

It weas mentioned in the Darren Manning lap preview.

[trauma1]

the POS crapwagons are testing at Sebring today wonder if they post times, bet not

[Sean O'Gorman]

the POS crapwagons are testing at Sebring today wonder if they post times, bet not

They could always throw cones on the track to build makeshift chicanes and throw the whole comparison off...

[pfc_m_drake]

Also don't forget that, unless there has been a rule change, traction control is legal in the IRL. And in that respect, I think that lap times will be better than many people think.

[racer2c]

Maybe Penske will show up with his IRL winged Champ Car. :gomer:

[B3RACER1a]

That's right, they're flat bottom cars aren't they?

They have some sort of tunnel system I believe.

Has anyone actually seen the underside of a crapwagon? :D

[RacinM3]

So Mikey is right. All they gotta do is add more road races.

Nope, he's wrong, at least for me. I'll be watching this first one, too. I won't watch any of the following road races, though, no doubt they won't be quite as comical as this one.

[Don Quixote]

Has anyone actually seen the underside of a crapwagon?

many, many times :laugh:

[RacinM3]

Has anyone actually seen the underside of a crapwagon?

Not for very long at one time. Usually you see the bottom, then the top, then the bottom, then the top, bottom, top, bottom, top. Sometimes when they land you can get a good look at the bottom, but that appears to be only about 50% of the time. :gomer:

[RacinM3]

Horni and the rest won't even know he had been there, exept for the faint whiff of Elizabeth Taylor's "White Diamonds" in the little freak's wake.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbup:

[pferrf1]

"You're at top speed coming down the front stretch, which is really a bumpy airport runway, going into the right-hander at Turn 1. The turn is slow, but really wide open, so there are lots of chances for overtaking. Turns 2 and 3 also are a nice little passing section where you're really going to have to try to get absolutely flat out because they're pretty fast corners.

"Between Turns 3 and 4, the back straight is a little bumpy because this is where you're back onto the real street circuit, so you have a crest in the road and things. Turns 4-6 are all through a car park (parking lot). The area has been widened but is all a twisty complex. You're braking on a diagonal through (Turns) 6 and 7 for the double-right at (Turns) 8 and 9. There is a short chute between 8 and 9, where you can overtake, before the second right angle in a row. (Turn) 9 is really tricky on the exit. It's off-camber because you're still on the road, and you're crossing over the main road that is really off-camber because of the drainage and things.

"At turns 9-10, you're flat out down the kink in the back straight, which will be easy flat in these cars, and into a tightened-up Turn 10 to make it easier to overtake and safer. That takes you to turns 11-12, where you try to get absolutely flat going through here -- they're the fastest corners on the track - before getting to a big loop at turns 13-14. That section is long, tight, and slippery and gets you back on to the front straightaway."


Two of the changes noted by Manning onthe St Petes track.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I officially rename this thread to "56K Deathstar"

Damn methandbrats, ever heard of image resizing? :laugh:

[Racing Truth]

I officially rename this thread to "56K Deathstar"

Damn methandbrats, ever heard of image resizing? :laugh:

:laugh: :rofl:

On topic: The big difference will be straight speeds and grip coming out of turns.

[Steve99]

Here's a pretty good look at the bottom of one
Where did that article come from?

[Don Quixote]

Where did that article come from?

I was wondering the same thing. The format looks like the front page of a supermarket tabloid.

[Andrew Longman]

This contains some descriptions of the track changes... In Barry Green's own words

http://www.tbsports.net/team_news/gpsp/2005/0314_high_hopes_for_hgpsp.htm

Expecting up to 70K over the three days. $80-105 for a three day ticket with only three series running? That's not a lot of on track activity for the buck. I think they are being optimistic.

[Methanolandbrats]

I was wondering the same thing. The format looks like the front page of a supermarket tabloid. Came from a British Fish Wrap, so tabloid is correct.

[Railbird]

$80-105 for a three day ticket with only three series running?

What does the printed $$$$$ number mean when they are giving them away?

[gerhard911]

Came from a British Fish Wrap, so tabloid is correct.

Then post up the "Page 3" crumpet dammmit :laugh:

[JohnHKart]

So Mikey is right. All they gotta do is add more road races.


Ah but there's a catch. If there's a Champ Car, F1, Trans Am or Cup race on a good track (like Richmond, Martinsville or Bristol or Sears Point, etc...) and I don't have a way to record on my DVD Harddrive or VCR because both are occupied by all of the above.....then no IRL.

John

[SurfaceUnits]

Although no official timing and scoring was provided, Andretti Green driver Tony Kanaan logged the fastest lap during this Tuesday’s Sebring testing sessions, the final opportunity for IRL teams to get used to their new road course packages prior to the series first non-oval event, this weekend’s Honda Grand Prix of St. Petersburg. :gomer:

[SurfaceUnits]

Why does the IRL not post any times from there road course test?

A 1) They don't want to expose the wreckless speeds that the Champ Car teams subject their drivers too. The IRL boldly shows that good clean racing can occur at much lesser speeds.

A 2) Too cloudy outside to read the sundial.

[stroker]

Even if individual lap times are comparable (HA!) I would suggest looking at elapsed time for the race (e.g. first 100 miles, etc.). I'm thinking that when half the field has crashed/broken down within the first half of the race, the word will go out that they need to cool it and make sure that at least 1/3 the field finishes the race. That'll bring the lap times WAY up...

FWIW I'm predicting Dashley on this one.

Not that I care.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

What cracks me up is the crack-smokers at Crackforum, the hardcore ones that hate any street-road racing are embracing this as the greatest thing in the I*L since 0.8 television ratings.

These guys like Depender, wilke and Turd 13 are such hippocrytes.

[DjDrOmusic]

They could always throw cones on the track to build makeshift chicanes and throw the whole comparison off...

You have just been profiled by the Save The Cones campaign!! Those poor innocent cones...have you no compassion???

;) :D

[Sean O'Gorman]

Ask me again on Sunday when I've got about a half dozen new scuff marks on my front bumper. :D