The last hope for open wheel oval racing fans

[nrc]

It's sad, but most of them are too dumb to realize it. A merger with two divisions is the last hope for the fans who supported the IRL because they want more open wheel oval racing.

If one side wins - either side - there won't be any more than a half dozen ovals left on their schedule within two years.

[racer2c]

I'll never watch/support/follow a unified series if

they use crapwagons instead of Champ Cars
Honda and Toyota prop up top teams
the series revolves around Indy at the detriment of the other races

[rabbit]

I'll never watch/support/follow a unified series if

they use crapwagons instead of Champ Cars
Honda and Toyota prop up top teams
the series revolves around Indy at the detriment of the other races

Agreed. And I'll add an obvious one:

Boy George is involved

[Peter Venkman]

I've got simple requirements for ever considering a "merger", or the support of any open wheel series; Tony George must ONLY be the owner of the 500 and has nothing whatsoever to do with the series.

I will not return as a fan with Tony George involved with the series, other than a track owner. Period.

[skaven]

I'll never watch/support/follow a unified series if

they use crapwagons instead of Champ Cars
Honda and Toyota prop up top teams
the series revolves around Indy at the detriment of the other races


Agreed.

Anything with the word "Indy" in it is pretty much spoiled for me. I grew up close to the track, but I have a hard time seeing a future where I'll ever return.

They can call it what they want want, but call it "Indy" anything and I'm out for good.

[Sean O'Gorman]

My requirements for a merger:

-Events run at the best venues for RACING, provided that their presence helps grow the sport
-Low cost/high value car formula that allows for large grids of competitive cars, where driver skill is more important than car ability
-They come to the realization that they MUST develop a proper ladder system that brings the fast guys from karts to the top, and that part of this is proper promotion of those series
-Someone in charge who makes bringing back the fans and sponsors his main priority

Of course, that being said, I doubt any of the 4 people currently funding open wheel racing could provide this. :(

[racer2c]

All of this mergin' talk reminds me a piece that David Philips wrote last year on the topic. His point is that it's been ten years since the split and each series has developed it's own way of doing things. From the executive team to the web designers. He wrote that the focus of merger talks always revolve around the things we can see, such as the drivers, cars, tracks etc, but that the biggest hurdle might be the combining logistics of the behind the scene folks. Merger = easier said than done.

[Lizzerd]

I've got simple requirements for ever considering a "merger", or the support of any open wheel series; Tony George must ONLY be the owner of the 500 and has nothing whatsoever to do with the series.

I will not return as a fan with Tony George involved with the series, other than a track owner. Period.

Ditto. :thumbup:

[Michaelhatesfans]

I've got simple requirements for ever considering a "merger", or the support of any open wheel series; Tony George must ONLY be the owner of the 500 and has nothing whatsoever to do with the series.

I will not return as a fan with Tony George involved with the series, other than a track owner. Period.
I'll just use your quote. No point paraphrasing! :thumbup:

[Turn7]

I've got simple requirements for ever considering a "merger", or the support of any open wheel series; Tony George must ONLY be the owner of the 500 and has nothing whatsoever to do with the series.

I will not return as a fan with Tony George involved with the series, other than a track owner. Period.


You don't have to be a rocket scientist to agree with that statement. :thumbup:

No **** mang!

[lone_groover]

Indubitably!!!

:thumbup: :)

[pchall]

One series = no Tony George

[cart7]

Just say no to F Tony George!

[Andrew Longman]

Ditto. :thumbup:

Double Ditto :thumbup:

[Jervis Tetch 1]

I said no to Boy George years ago. FTG

[RichK]

I'm not sure what would get me back to being the fanatic I once was.

CART was big-time racing, and attracted a current F1 champion at one point. CART was about to rival Formula One in many ways, and an argument could be made back then that "our drivers" were at about the same level as the guys in F1.

Even if there were a merger, the big-time feel is gone. Champcars need an update, and the crapwagons don't even merit a mention. The team owners that left for the .1RL lost all of my respect, and I can barely stand to see Ganassi/Mikey/Penske/Rahal/Fernandez interviewed now....why should I buy a ticket to see them?

I think more is already lost than can be gained with a merger. Maybe 5 years after a merger (or death of the .1RL), the big-time feeling will return.

[trauma1]

remember "unification is just a helicopter crash away" RM

[Peter Venkman]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to agree with that statement. :thumbup:

No **** mang!



You don't?

[Brickman]

It's sad, but most of them are too dumb to realize it. A merger with two divisions is the last hope for the fans who supported the IRL because they want more open wheel oval racing.

If one side wins - either side - there won't be any more than a half dozen ovals left on their schedule within two years.

The ovals only group were the leftovers from the USAC war with CART in the 70's. They wanted ovals only because CART wasn't ovals only. But that was at the formation of the IRL, 2 years ago only 1/3 wanted ovals only. I don't know what they think now, so I asked.

There won't ever be two divisions, there will be Champ Car running everything outside of the 50 states, and Indy Car running inside and in Japan (if they keep Honda) and in Canada. Mexico is still a toss up.

[Ziggy]

There won't ever be two divisions, there will be Champ Car running everything outside of the 50 states, and Indy Car running inside and in Japan (if they keep Honda) and in Canada. Mexico is still a toss up.


Only for fencesitters like you.

[Ankf00]

more than 8000 ppl need to show up for phoenix for IRL to have anything inside the states :rolleyes:

[DagoFast]

I posted this idea on another board. I think it would be a way to bring both sides togeter in many beneficial ways. It would allow for some "saving face".
More importantly, it should take some of the focus off of the hate, and put the focus back where it belongs...on the racing.

The time has come to settle this like men, like racers.

Let's stop the cheap talk, the name calling, the poaching, the finger pointing, the whining, the BS.

Listen Amigo's:

Pubicly lay out a challenge.

Invite the IRL to say,Cleveland. It's a wide open track. It should favor their cars for helping them maintian momentum. (and we don't want them at our premeir event.)

They can leave Ed and AJ IV home. Bring their 15 best cars and drivers.
We leave Phillipe and Mazzacane at home. Champ car brings their best 15.

They invite us to say, Fontana. (they maybe don't want us at their premeir event) Same deal as above.

If they want to dump their rev limiters, thats OK. I hope they want to!
We can wind up the boost. If someone thinks they can run for 500 miles with 100 inches of boost, by god let 'em try! It's racing damn it!

If you want to pit every 5 laps or run the race non stop, go for it! If someone wants to run nitrous, have Senna cloned, go for it. It's RACING damn it.

Would you buy a ticket? I know I would!
Would you show up to cheer for your guy's? I know I would!
Would it make for "Must see TV"? I think so.

Would PT Barnum cut a deal to come back from the dead AND give his left nut to promote such a show?

Time to put up or shut up. Let there be no more confusion. Drop the flag.

[racer2c]

I posted this idea on another board. I think it would be a way to bring both sides togeter in many beneficial ways. It would allow for some "saving face".
More importantly, it should take some of the focus off of the hate, and put the focus back where it belongs...on the racing.

The time has come to settle this like men, like racers.

Let's stop the cheap talk, the name calling, the poaching, the finger pointing, the whining, the BS.

Listen Amigo's:

Pubicly lay out a challenge.

Invite the IRL to say,Cleveland. It's a wide open track. It should favor their cars for helping them maintian momentum. (and we don't want them at our premeir event.)

They can leave Ed and AJ IV home. Bring their 15 best cars and drivers.
We leave Phillipe and Mazzacane at home. Champ car brings their best 15.

They invite us to say, Fontana. (they maybe don't want us at their premeir event) Same deal as above.

If they want to dump their rev limiters, thats OK. I hope they want to!
We can wind up the boost. If someone thinks they can run for 500 miles with 100 inches of boost, by god let 'em try! It's racing damn it!

If you want to pit every 5 laps or run the race non stop, go for it! If someone wants to run nitrous, have Senna cloned, go for it. It's RACING damn it.

Would you buy a ticket? I know I would!
Would you show up to cheer for your guy's? I know I would!
Would it make for "Must see TV"? I think so.

Would PT Barnum cut a deal to come back from the dead AND give his left nut to promote such a show?

Time to put up or shut up. Let there be no more confusion. Drop the flag.

No offense, my good intentioned friend, but that reminds me of 7G circa '99, '00. Ten years later, one thing that is for sure, the obvious things never happen.

[DagoFast]

Sadly, your probably right. So I will just enjoy Champcar as long as it lasts. Hopefully, it will outlive me.

Tommorow, the smell of methanol will make it all seem better. :)

[Michaelhatesfans]

Would you buy a ticket?
Not if Tony George gets one penny of the proceeds.

[DagoFast]

Not if Tony George gets one penny of the proceeds.

So there WOULD be a crowd at Cleveland, but Fontana would remain nearly empty...so I guess nothing would change there. :rofl:

But would the media report that people must not like open wheel cars on ovals, and all future races better be on street/RC? Who besides us will know that it's only because us hardcore fans won't spit on Ftg even if he is on fire?

Sponsors won't. MOST media won't. Oval track owners and promoters will only get one message; keep the ten foot pole handy.

[G.]

There won't ever be two divisions, there will be Champ Car running everything outside of the 50 states, and Indy Car running inside and in Japan (if they keep Honda) and in Canada. Mexico is still a toss up.If Toy and Honduh decide that St. Pete's is the vision of the future and decide to stay in irl, then this may be a possibility. Too many things would have to happen for this to work. The OWRS owners would have to roll over and not fight back. Ain't gonna happen. FTG would have to have some incredible luck. What's his track record so far? :shakehead

[oddlycalm]

CART was big-time racing, and attracted a current F1 champion at one point. CART was about to rival Formula One in many ways, and an argument could be made back then that "our drivers" were at about the same level as the guys in F1.

Even if there were a merger, the big-time feel is gone. Yeah, I know that feeling well. For those of us that remember how it was, the way CCWS feels is a hollow echo while The EARL is a pathetic joke. Lets be honest, all the goodwill aside, Paul Tracy couldn't find the podium for years on end back in the day and Jeemy is a wonderful guy, but his big year came 10yrs ago.

The race to see this year in the US will be MotoGP. Major talent thoughout the field, incredible speed, big bucks factory equipment, and you can count on passing for position all up and down the field from the drop of the flag. Champcar may not be able to pull a crowd at Laguna Seca, but I'll bet that MotoGP has the place sold out well before race day.

I actually have no idea who the CCWS or the EARL think their target market is today, but it looks to me like it's a market that doesn't really exist any longer. Merger talks or turf wars over a market that has nearly ceased to exist? What for?

My comment to Kalkovan and Forsythe is that it's real simple; bring the folks real racing, real excitment on real tracks. I know you have to have pay days to float the boat, but telling me that the focus of the series will be Asia in the future doesn't do much for me. Bring the promise of spec series forever, endless full course yellows, mostly forgettable street courses and a "good enough" mentality and before long I won't care if it's happening in my front yard.

The EARL doesn't enter into my thinking at all because it's been a mediocrity by design minor league effort from it's inception. What the hell is there for CCWS to merge with...? The crapwagons? The teams I don't care to ever see race again? The bush league officiating? The cookie cutter ISC ovals? The small but incredibly annoying fan base?

oc