Nascar article about Goodyear... (Champcar related thread though)

[devilmaster]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=jb-tires041105&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Wearing Thin.

MARTINSVILLE, Va. – Virtually every week, I get emails from readers asking about the new so-called "softer" tires that Goodyear is providing to Nextel Cup teams this season.

Invariably, most of those letters ask the same thing: Why are there so many flat tires this year? And why are they continuing to occur with regularity?

Rather than placing too much blame on the tire, I've maintained that it's just going to take time for teams to adapt to the faster-wearing rubber compound and adjust their pit and setup strategies accordingly.

I've given Goodyear the benefit of the doubt.

That is, until now.....

This article reminded me of CART's tyre war, and how Firestone/Bridgestone was able, in a few short years, to dominate Goodyear. IIRC, I believe it was Mikey Andridiot at RA in 1998 who summed up the Goodyears with a simple 'f**king tyres!' after blowing one and crashing. In 1999, all cars had Firestones.

The memory ain't what it used to be, so I'll ask you guys what you remember of the tyre war. I remember it as Goodyear scurrying to tintops with its tail between its legs....

Steve

[Andrew Longman]

I don't recall that Goodyear couldn't make a tire that would last, just that I couldn't make a tire that won. They did OK ini the NASCAR war with Hoosiers a few years back. Hoosiers were fast for qualifying but wore out in the race.

From a marketing perspective Goodyear likes the certainty that they will shod the Daytona 500 winner, just like Firestone knows they will win the I500 every year. Makes for a nice ad they can run all summer. Much more cost effective than going to war with your competitor

[devilmaster]

I don't recall that Goodyear couldn't make a tire that would last, just that I couldn't make a tire that won. They did OK ini the NASCAR war with Hoosiers a few years back. Hoosiers were fast for qualifying but wore out in the race.

RW could probably help me out here, but I recall that hoosiers were of a smaller diameter than the goodyears, giving them reliability problems....

[cart7]

What I recall was Goodyear couldn't build a very consistant tire that lasted a run without being waaay off either in the beginning, in the middle or in the end or a combination of all three of those. Firestones on the otherhand, were extremely consistant and wore consistantly from the start to finish of a run.

[KobySon]

In the FRP off years, was he not on goodyear rubber? the mercedes/goodyear/p24 (right?) combo had to be the most disastrous ever. I still can't believe it took frp as long as it did to switch to honda/firestone (by default)/reynard-reyenske.

Tyre war sponsorship or not, I can't believe that penske had any loyalty to a company that wouldn't give him that unfair advantage.

But, those were good times. Seeing ole liver spots have his arse handed to him week in, week out.

[rabbit]

How many times did Bryan Herta lose a race to Alex Zanardi because his Goodyears were going off or blowing up while Zanardi's Firestones were still going strong?

Several.

When Goodyear saw that it was getting its arse handed to it in CART and F1, that was when they went and signed the "exclusive supplier" deal with NASCAR. If you can't beat the competition, just don't have any.

Goodyear sucks.

[pchall]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=jb-tires041105&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

IIRC, I believe it was Mikey Andridiot at RA in 1998 who summed up the Goodyears with a simple 'f**king tyres!' after blowing one and crashing.

Steve

Mikey whined about his Goodyears over the pit radio more than once. I remember him leading a street race and the in-car camera was showing how he had abused the right front driving really hard. Even the announcers could see it, so you know it OBVIOUS. You could see the tire getting worse lap by lap. It was clear he needed to pit and get new rubber, but Whinedretti stayed out until it blew. Mikey: "..'king Goodyears". But it was really "... 'king Mikey" being stupid and throwing away a sure good points placing.

On the other hand, Gil de Ferran never had an unkind word for Goodyear and was the last driver to win a champcar race on Goodyears during their final season in CART.

[Winston Wolfe]

Mikey whined about his Goodyears over the pit radio more than once. I remember him leading a street race and the in-car camera was showing how he had abused the right front driving really hard. Even the announcers could see it, so you know it OBVIOUS. You could see the tire getting worse lap by lap. It was clear he needed to pit and get new rubber, but Whinedretti stayed out until it blew. Mikey: "..'king Goodyears". But it was really "... 'king Mikey" being stupid and throwing away a sure good points placing.

On the other hand, Gil de Ferran never had an unkind word for Goodyear and was the last driver to win a champcar race on Goodyears during their final season in CART.

If I recall correctly, that was the LBGP when Whinedretti was leading in the latter part of the race, and it was PAINFULLY obvious for all to see on the in-car cam as well as at the track, that his front tire was about to go.... he decided to stay out and wait for a caution, which never came, and he ended up BEING the caution.... typical Mikey Andretti "luck".... :shakehead

[nrc]

How many times did Bryan Herta lose a race to Alex Zanardi because his Goodyears were going off or blowing up while Zanardi's Firestones were still going strong?

I remember him literally shredding a Goodyear trying to stay ahead of Zanardi at MidOhio one year. Pretty dramatic, but sad.

[Hard Driver]

I buy nothing but Bridgestone. They do well in racing and they have done well by me. I also like supporting champcar sponsors. The last time I took my wifes car to the Goodyear place (maybe 5 years ago), the tires we got were terrible. They wore out quickly but gripped like a cheapo 80,000 mile tire..

[rabbit]

I remember him literally shredding a Goodyear trying to stay ahead of Zanardi at MidOhio one year. Pretty dramatic, but sad.Yep. going into the Keyhole after leading the first 2/3s of the race.

[pfc_m_drake]

I'll echo Pchall's comments and add some of my own.

In the famous 'F'n Goodyear' Long Beach race, Andretti had damaged his suspension by launching his car over a fellow competitor in the final turn before the Shoreline straight. This suspension damage lead to excessive tire wear, which ultimately led to tire failure after several laps, which led to Andretti's now famous comment. Unfortunately, when all the facts are brought to the table, the 'F'n Goodyear' comment isn't nearly as good as when you take it out of context.

With specific regard to the NASCAR story, recall that it was 2 years ago that NASCAR asked Goodyear to alter the construction of their tires to make them softer. The reason: The tires had become so consistent over the course of the run that no one could gain a competitive advantage over anybody else as the cars were more or less equal and the racing had become boring.

As far as Goodyear goes, there's no doubt that I give them too much credit...but at the same time others are way too critical. There's no doubt that Firestone was the better tire for a while, but let's look at Goodyear's last year in CART, 1999. Goodyear teams:

AAR Alex Barron Eagle/Toyota
Bettenhausen Shigeaki Hattori Lola/Mercedes
Penske Al Unser Jr. Penske/Mercedes
Walker de Ferran/Naoki Harrotri Reynard/Honda

Out of those 5 cars, I see one competitive driver/chassis/engine combination. Recall that as of 1999 Toyota had yet to win a race. That was problem number 1. However, despite the obvious disadvantage, Goodyear still won Portland (with de Ferran running flat-out and double-stinting on the same set of tires) and set two track records (Motegi, Toronto) that I believe still stand to this day.

Go back and look at your tapes - watch de Ferran battle Zanardi at Cleveland in '96. Check out Detroit from that year as the Firestone engineers cut grooves in their rain tires because they're hopelessly slower than the Goodyear rain tire. Watch Paul Tracy rip off three in row for Penske in '97. While you're there, check out who finished P2 to the Ganassi/Zanardi juggernaut in the driver's championship in '97. Watch Fontana '97 where the Firestones are blistering so bad during the first stint that their cars don't stand a chance. They solve the problem by switching to the option tire during the first round of pit stops.

Ah yes...you all remember the option tire. Interesting that the option tire rule was essentially abolished just as Firestone gained the upper hand.

Take a look at the 1998 lineup - again, Firestone easily had most of the best teams/drivers that year. Yet if you page through the race results, you'll faithfully find a Goodyear runner or two consistently running at the top.

As I said, I probably don't come down on Goodyear hard enough - but I'll go way way way out on a limb here...I bet that in the final analysis Bridgestone fairs much worse than Michelin in F1 this year. Obviously that means that Bridgestone tires are absolute junk and completely worthless, right?

Finally, I always find it interesting to note that Firestone did *NOT* enjoy the same 'dominance' over Goodyear in the IRL as they did during the same timeframe that they did in CART.

A different perspective perhaps - and it's not even that I dislike Bridgestone/Firestone...I just think that sometimes the anecdotal stories that people are fond of need some more context than they're often given.

[Wheel-Nut]

Thanks for ruining a good story. :D

[eiregosod]

Firestone took Scott Pruett out for year to test all their compounds (10,000 compounds IIRC), 1994. After a successful 1995, going on Firestone tyres seemed to be a gamble worth taking for 1996. While Firestone had their slicks in good shape, their rain tyres were awful, at Detroit 1996 all the goodyear cars came to the front.

All I remmebr from the tyre war, was the massive & quick build up of marbles on the street circuits. They had to send the track dryers out to blow them all away. http://www.offcamber.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=95514#
Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)

No doubt Firestone's success promted Bridgestone to join into F1, they took a TWR Arrows car for the year to do their F1 testing in 1996. WHen ligier/prost Stewart had some good runs on Bridgestone in 1997, McLaren & benetton were the top-4 teams to go with Bridgestone in 1998. the Goodyears suffered from blistering and had to increase the width of their front tyres. I forget which year they pulled out of F1 , but they sure looked as if they had their tyre problems sorted out.

All the tyre wars did was give the teams much grippier tryes and lap times plummetted, hence the introduction of grooved slicks & other aerodynamical solutions for the 1998 f1 season :rolleyes:

[pchall]

Thanks for ruining a good story. :D

This is one time when "revisionist" history is a good thing. pfc_m_drake supplies all the details -- I never really sat down and thought about who was driving Goodyears that last season, and that list is appalling!

[eiregosod]

This is one time when "revisionist" history is a good thing. pfc_m_drake supplies all the details -- I never really sat down and thought about who was driving Goodyears that last season, and that list is appalling!

Penske owned part of Goodyear!

Tracy's 1997 3 in a row came on ovals, Goodyear had a good oval racing tyre.

That just leaves DeFerran on Goodyears,

[Napoleon]

Penske owned part of Goodyear!


Actually he didn't but instead owned Competition Tires East and Compitition Tires West two tire distributers who sold Goodyears racetires. I think they went to ISC as part of Penske's "sale" of his tracks.

[JLMannin]

AAR Alex Barron Eagle/Toyota
Bettenhausen Shigeaki Hattori Lola/Mercedes
Penske Al Unser Jr. Penske/Mercedes
Walker de Ferran/Naoki Harrotri Reynard/Honda

Arnd Meier with Poject Indy was on Goodyears that year as well

[pfc_m_drake]

Arnd Meier with Poject Indy was on Goodyears that year as well
Are you sure you're not thinking of 1998 when he was with Davis Racing? I paged through a few of the race results from that year, but I don't recall seeing him there. Admittedly I didn't go through every race, but nonetheless I seem to remember that being the previous season.

Peter Burke has an excellent listing of Teams/Drivers/Chassis/Engines/Tires broken down by year on his website.

1999 Season (http://www.speedcenter.com/races99/99drivers.html)

1998 Season (http://www.speedcenter.com/races98/98drivers.html)

What's not captured there is that Tarso Marques and Gonzalo Rodriguez also ran for Penske in 1999.

Additionally, Memo Gidley turned in some good runs for Walker subbing for the injured Naoki Hattori.

[JLMannin]

Are you sure you're not thinking of 1998 when he was with Davis Racing?

You're right - 1998 with Davis Racing.

[devilmaster]

I sorta also recall someone telling me way back then, that Goodyear would give away their tyres while Firestone took them all back and analyzed them....

I can't remember if that was a broadcast or someone at the track telling me that...

Anyone remember?