How Miffed Would You Be If...

[SurfaceUnits]

ChampCar decides to use the 2.4 V8 in the '07 lighter, nimbler chassis. If Cosworth doesn't get any F1 buyers, other than Minardi, why not use it for the new Champ Cars.

[RichK]

20k rpms would sound pretty cool under the hotel at Long Beach.

[Michaelhatesfans]

... why not use it for the new Champ Cars.
I prefer turbos. Anyway, many of the tracks would have serious issues with the noise coming from an F1 derived motor. Remember when we were laughing at the mufflers on the crapwagons at Sear's Point? Well....

[Easy]

I don't think that many ChampCar teams could afford the $20,000,000 price tag.

[oddlycalm]

Great fantasy. :thumbup: Seriously, while there is a laundry list of physical and financial reasons that make this impractical, none of those prevent it from being a wonderful fantasy. :D

The fact is that Champcar is a series that KK and JF control, making it a perfect opportunity to make a public statement with their Cosworth engines. While champcars are larger, heavier and have different transmissions with different rotating masses, and while the teams can't afford engines made entirely of unobtanium, there is certainly plenty of room for a very cool "statement" engine to be adopted in future years. I'm partial to the turbos, and feel that it gives the series a unique character as well as some rule making flexibility, but I'm not blind to other possibilities.

That said, I still feel that a 1.6-2.0L turbo inline four that made 800hp would be a very good way to go, and a more nimble chassis would be welcome. I would use it as a platform to help market the series to the import/tuner crowd around the Pacific Rim where the 1.6-2.0L DOHC inline four is pretty much the standard package. I'd be taking a champcar thusly equipped to all the import drag and drifting events and running it. Can you imagine the reaction at one of those events if a champcar ran the 1/4 mile followed by some donuts? The cost of doing this in markets where races are held would be nominal.

oc

[Dr. Corkski]

ChampCar decides to use the 2.4 V8 in the '07 lighter, nimbler chassis. If Cosworth doesn't get any F1 buyers, other than Minardi, why not use it for the new Champ Cars.It would be a pretty good idea if you completely ignore that people will actually have to pay for them. :gomer:

[FRANKY]

Remember when we were laughing at the mufflers on the crapwagons at Sear's Point?

Yea but those were just shop mufflers.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Sounds expensive, but if they have no takers in F 1 and there is no way to recoup the costs of development, it might not be a bad idea. Probably a bit on the loud site though.

[Andrew Longman]

Call me old school, but it must have a turbo. My entire life that has been the sound of a champcar. I'm extreem enough that the fact that a crapwagon does not have a turbo whine is reason enough to blame TG for screwing up Indy.

It also give a lot of flexibility on rules making and controlling engine power/spec over time.

I worry about the exhaust note of an I4. I know a V6 isn't right. If they need to go smaller, which I can easily see, I think I'd like to see it a V8 with the same crank angle.

Unrelated: "unobtainium" ...that's funny :rofl:

[Rogue Leader]

For one I doubt the noise would fly a a lot of US venues, secondly KK had made some comments to the effect of sticking wiht the turbo formula.

Another possibilty is detuning the motor and putting a turbo on it to get the power back... hmmmm

[meadors]

destroke it to 1.8l to 2.0l replace the unobtainium with obtaniumcommunus put the turbo on get about 875 hp. make me happy.

[Gary]

The 2.4 Cosworth Turbo V8 F1 motor, detuned to 16K rpm, would last as long as today's motor, and sound like a ChampCar of a few years ago.

"Sounds" like a good idea to me.

[L1P1]

I'd rather see engine competition. But if they chose a different spec engine, that one would be cool. It would be significantly less expensive in spec mode.

[FRANKY]

I don't believe there will be any engine competition. If KK were to get Honda backinto the fold, then he would have to get FORD to really step up with some serious development money. It would be off to the races again with manufacturers spending loads. I doubt Ford would, and Kevin has his hands full setting up and subsidizing sponsor deals for teams to have to spend money developing an engine he leases back to his own series.

I just don't see any engine or chassis changes unless they strike an agreement with the IRL. I think they will go about focusing on venues, TV, Team Sponsorship and nothing else for at least the next 3 or 4 years. The only thing I'm not sure of is how long can they run them until the natives get too restless.

[SurfaceUnits]

Minardi to continue with Cosworth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4508925.stm

Minardi say they have been impressed with the new Cosworth
Minardi will continue using Cosworth engines in Formula One after signing an extension to their contract for 2006, with an option for 2007.

Minardi agreed the deal after being impressed by Cosworth's new engine when they ran it for the first time at the San Marino Grand Prix last month.

It means Minardi will continue to use a three-litre V10 engine next year while the sport switches to 2.4-litre V8s.

The larger engines are to be limited so they do not outperform the new ones.

Minardi owner Paul Stoddart said: "We can't praise highly enough the engine's power, driveability and reliability.

"In terms of engine supply, this is definitely the right way for us to go."

Stoddart's decision represents a boost for Cosworth, which was hit by Red Bull's announcement in San Marino that they were ditching the British company for a new deal with Ferrari in 2006.

Stoddart said he had no doubts about demonstrating "our belief in Cosworth by entering into this contractual arrangement at an early stage of the new season".

Cosworth managing director Tim Routsis said: "It is pleasing for our company, which is now an independent engine manufacturer, to continue to support one of the last true independent teams on the Formula One grid."

[pchall]

Sounds expensive, but if they have no takers in F 1 and there is no way to recoup the costs of development, it might not be a bad idea. Probably a bit on the loud site though.

Ford apparently paid for the design and initial development of this engine.

Since there is no need to use the full on F1 unit for Champ Car unit, there are many possibilities. How about a long-life 2.4l NA with mechanical valves and a lower max RPM? Or doing a modern version of the DFV to DFX program? -- there's a 2.0l turbo in that unit someplace (remember, if you can [or read about it newbies]), -- Cosworth made a 2.5l Tasman Series engine out of the DFV as well as the 2.65l DFX and the 3.5l DFL.

[SurfaceUnits]

The Cosworth Formula One engine for the start of 2005 is the TJ2005 Series 10. This is a development of the TJ2004 Series 8 as used by Jaguar Racing Ltd & Jordan Grand Prix at the end of 2004.

The specification & detail design of critical components been reviewed against the 2005 requirements & changes have been made which give the most significant benefits to engine performance & reliability. The result is a Melbourne 2005 engine that revs higher (+300RPM), makes more power (+25BHP) & runs reliably for twice as long when compared to Melbourne 2004.

The TJ2005 Series 10 engine will race for the first time in the Red Bull Racing RB1 at Melbourne GP & also in the new Minardi PS05 from San Marino GP onwards. This will deliver a peak power improvement of 100BHP & double the engine life over the CK2004 (or CR-3L) engine currently utilised in the existing Minardi PS-04B chassis.

At Indianapolis GP it is planned that Red Bull Racing will enjoy a further significant performance step with the introduction of the TJ2005 Series 12. This engine is currently under development & will deliver significantly more power & revs over Series 10. It will be exclusive to Red Bull Racing & a development version (Series 11) with a gain of 30BHP & a maximum engine speed of 19000RPM has already been successfully track tested by the team.

In addition work is well underway on a new V8 engine to comply with the 2006 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations. The fact that these new regulations are much more restrictive & certain engine dimensions are constrained has a significant impact on the focus of the engine design work. By nature, this offers both an opportunity & a challenge. Various types of development engines are already running on the dyno & results so far have been very encouraging.

TJ2005 Series 10 Specification

Configuration: V10
Vee angle: 90
Number of valves: 40
Capacity: 2998cc
Maximum engine speed: 18,300rpm
Construction: Aluminium cylinder block and heads, cast in Cosworth’s own foundry. Aluminium alloy pistons, steel crankshaft
Engine Electronics: Pi/Cosworth
Spark Plugs: Champion
Weight: 94kg including ballast

[jonovision_man]

I don't think that many ChampCar teams could afford the $20,000,000 price tag.

The cost wouldn't be anywhere near that. That price is meant to recover some of the R&D expenses involved in competing with BMW, Mercedes, etc on the grid.

Also, F1 engines only have to last 2 weekends. If they limited the revs, they could probably get more races out of them than that. And it's supposed to go up to 6 weekends in the coming years in F1.

How many weekends does a CCWS engine have to last before the rebuild? I thought 6, but can't remember exactly.

What about ovals?

jono

[Insomniac]

The cost wouldn't be anywhere near that. That price is meant to recover some of the R&D expenses involved in competing with BMW, Mercedes, etc on the grid.

Also, F1 engines only have to last 2 weekends. If they limited the revs, they could probably get more races out of them than that. And it's supposed to go up to 6 weekends in the coming years in F1.

How many weekends does a CCWS engine have to last before the rebuild? I thought 6, but can't remember exactly.

What about ovals?

jono

The current engines go 1200 miles between rebuilds. There isn't a specified time range.

[Ankf00]

yes please. :)

[ferrarigod]

Keep our turbo's. But I'm all for the lighter chassis.

No airboxes, no NA