Time for My Mercedes IRL Announcement

[SurfaceUnits]

Penske to run Mercedes ........? (post #1)

A good friend of mine reported to me that he has heard accounts through the media that Mercedes is thinking about entering the IRL Series and that Roger Penske would be in charge of the operation. :rofl:

[Sean O'Gorman]

You'd think that Mercedes would learn by now that their marque and flying cars do not mix...

[DagoFast]

You'd think that Mercedes would learn by now that their marque and flying cars do not mix...
:rofl: :rofl:

[Winston Wolfe]

You'd think that Mercedes would learn by now that their marque and flying cars do not mix...

Dood, you arent making fun of the 1950's LeMans race when the Merc car got launched into the crowd and killed 40-50 spectators, the driver, and severly injured \ maimed a bunch more..... are ya ? :shakehead

I mean, I am all about laying the hate down on crapwagens, but pulling out the "death in the stands" humor just aint right

[dando]

Dood, you arent making fun of the 1950's LeMans race when the Merc car got launched into the crowd and killed 40-50 spectators, the driver, and severly injured \ maimed a bunch more..... are ya ? :shakehead

I mean, I am all about laying the hate down on crapwagens, but pulling out the "death in the stands" humor just aint right
WW, I think SOG was referring to this Merc from Le Mans in '99:

http://www.lemans24horas.hpg.ig.com.br/MERCEDES%20CLR%20VOO%202.jpg

(@ least I'm hoping SOG hasn't acquired Meth&brats curious sense of humor)

-Kevin

[Sean O'Gorman]

I was talking about the CLR incident from 1999 since that was related to a design flaw, not a freak accident like the '55 Le Mans crash.

[ChampCar#3]

You'd think that Mercedes would learn by now that their marque and flying cars do not mix...

Was it Mercedes or BMW (I'm 99% sure it was BMW) that provided engines to the German airforce in WW1. These engines were vastly superior to anything the Allies. After the Germans were defeated, it was in the treaty that BMW couldn't manufacture aircraft engines so they got involved in automoble engines. To maintain their "aircraft heritage" they came up with a new symbol to badge there automotive engines. The new symbol is still used to today, it's the circle divided in four with the blue infill in opposite corners. This symbol represents a rotating propeller with sky blue in the background.

The Mercedes symbol could be viewed the same way.
Wonder if rumours of this talk would break a 90 +/- year old treaty about making aircraft?



Note: looks like an error on my part, must have been WW2 not WW1, therefore only a 60 yr treaty.
Thanks cart7!!!...great pics!

[cart7]

Was it Mercedes or BMW (I'm 99% sure it was BMW) that provided engines to the German airforce in WW1. These engines were vastly superior to anything the Allies. After the Germans were defeated, it was in the treaty that BMW couldn't manufacture aircraft engines so they got involved in automoble engines. To maintain their "aircraft heritage" they came up with a new symbol to badge there automotive engines. The new symbol is still used to today, it's the circle divided in four with the blue infill in opposite corners. This symbol represents a rotating propeller with sky blue in the background.

The Mercedes symbol could be viewed the same way.
Wonder if rumours of this talk would break a 90 +/- year old treaty about making aircraft?

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-ww2-enemy/fw190.jpg

FW-190, A models powered by a radial BMW engine, later versions had the Junkers Jumo 213 in-line.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-ww2-enemy/mess109-2_small.jpg

ME-109, Originally powered by a Rolls-Royce Kestrel V (BF models), later the Daimler-Benz DB601.

[skaven]

Yup... and Mitsubishi powered the Japanese "zeros" at Pearl Harbor.

A good book for the history/ technology buff is "The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben." IG Farben was the German chemical combine of BASF, AGFA, Hoerchst (sp?), Bayer (yeah, the aspirin people) and others. IG Farben had factories at Auschwitz, etc. to use the labor supplied by the SS. The Aushwitz IG Farben plant was to have made rubber from coal as natural rubber was not available thanks to the Royal Navy. Amazing and ghastly read.

It goes back to the first war where the Germans figured out how to make gunpowder out of air. :eek: High pressure and heat "fixed" the nitrogen in the air (79% N2) into ammonia (NH3). The ammonia was turned into nitrates (NO3) which went into gunpowder. Once the aforementioned Royal Navy blockaded the delivery of saltpeter from South America, Germany had less than a years supply of gunpowder at the start of the war. The Haber-Bosch Process extened the Great War another 4 years.

Now... return to your previously scheduled topic while I get back to work. ;)

[Michaelhatesfans]

The Mercedes symbol could be viewed the same way...
Yes.

http://www.jcardy.co.uk/snaps/19-10-04%20praha/thumb_PICT0226.JPG

[pchall]

FW-190, A models powered by a radial BMW engine, later versions had the Junkers Jumo 213 in-line.


The FW-190D shown in the post is the Jumo in-line version. I recognize that particular aircraft -- it now resides in the WW2 hangar at the USAF Museum east of Dayton, OH.

[Napoleon]

The FW-190D shown in the post is the Jumo in-line version. I recognize that particular aircraft -- it now resides in the WW2 hangar at the USAF Museum east of Dayton, OH.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an47.htm

A really neat place to visit btw if you are into historic military aircraft.

[ChampCar#3]

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an47.htm

A really neat place to visit btw if you are into historic military aircraft.


Maximum speed 426 mph?....wow....shows how naive I am, that really amazes me the speed of these aircraft!!!!

[Steve99]

Penske to run Mercedes ........? (post #1)
Is he bringing the pushrod panzer engines back for a second round? That would be fun.

[Napoleon]

Maximum speed 426 mph?....wow....shows how naive I am, that really amazes me the speed of these aircraft!!!!

My brother and I use to have this game when we were kids

http://www.waynesbooks.com/images/graphics/luftwaffe.jpg

and I recall the 190 as being the most superior aircraft in speed and other factors that was availible in numbers to either side.

[coolhand]

The Bf-109 was the early aircraft that the german's had on the onset of the war. the F-190 came out later and was considered superior in many respect.

the engine on the Bf-109 was a inverted liquid cooled BMW V-12. One of the most powerful of the time and so was its various derivatives (the allies had the Rolls-royce Merlin engine in the Spitfire, Mustang and other aircraft, very powerful).

The Germans went as far as sending a U-boat to japan with these engines because the Japanese did not have an inline engine powerful enough at the time.

[cart7]

The FW-190D shown in the post is the Jumo in-line version. I recognize that particular aircraft -- it now resides in the WW2 hangar at the USAF Museum east of Dayton, OH.

That would be correct. Sorry, I should have listed.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stoffwjabo.jpg

Here is the A version. Note the substantially thicker engine cowling area covering the radial BMW engine vs the sleaker nose on the D model.

[cart7]

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an47.htm

A really neat place to visit btw if you are into historic military aircraft.

Been there. You're right, they have a fine collection of vintage and historic military aircraft. Possibly the best in the world. :thumbup:

[dando]

Been there. You're right, they have a fine collection of vintage and historic military aircraft. Possibly the best in the world. :thumbup:
Well, the updated National Air & Space Museum gives it a run for the $$$. But I do love the museum outside Wright Pat in DAY. :thumbup:

-Kevin

[nrc]

Here is the A version. Note the substantially thicker engine cowling area covering the radial BMW engine vs the sleaker nose on the D model.

I always preferred the proportions of the A model.

Back in the olden days before internet gaming there was an amazing online combat flight simulator called Air Warrior that ran over the GEnie dial-up service. I spent a lot of time in a virtual FW at $3.95 an hour. :)

[Methanolandbrats]

Hmmmmmm..........I've been called a lot worse than "curious" :D

This thread is a perfect example of why I own four German Cars.

An all you plane guys better visit this
http://www.strategicairandspace.com/ I spent hours wandering around like this http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

[cart7]

My Dad was a B-17 navigator late in WWII. He doesn't talk much about the war or his experience in his 35 required trips. He did say it's a good thing this
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/images/white35_w_16.jpg

didn't make into the war any sooner than it did. They were virtually impossible to hit with the 50's onboard the B-17's and the P-51's couldn't keep up with them unless they attacked from a steep dive from high altitude, these jets could've delayed the end of the war for years had Hitler not insisted on turning them into bombers instead of the fighters they were designed for.

Powered by the Junkers Jumo 004s.

[Ankf00]

the 262 was pimpin' :cool:

[pchall]

the 262 was pimpin' :cool:

You ought to check out the pictures, design proposal drawings, and three-views at this site:

http://www.luft46.com/

Lots of information on the promising, the wild and the weird among the prototype aircraft, design proposals, and pipe dreams submitted to the RLM in the last years of the war.

[Napoleon]

My Dad was a B-17 navigator late in WWII. He doesn't talk much about the war or his experience in his 35 required trips. He did say it's a good thing this
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/images/white35_w_16.jpg

didn't make into the war any sooner than it did. They were virtually impossible to hit with the 50's onboard the B-17's and the P-51's couldn't keep up with them unless they attacked from a steep dive from high altitude, these jets could've delayed the end of the war for years had Hitler not insisted on turning them into bombers instead of the fighters they were designed for.

Powered by the Junkers Jumo 004s.

This is one of the 2 aircraft that caused me to qualify my comment of the 190 being the best aircraft in the game I mentioned. There was also a prop driven plane who's designation I forget that was in very small quantities that was much better then the 190.

In the game the amount of 262's you got were not sufficent to make a differance, but you had the option of several variations on the rules one of which involved, basically, the 262's becoming available on the schdule it is estimated they would have for fighter deployment with no interference from the political leadership. In that game version the 262 could make differances in certain outcomes.

[cart7]

This is one of the 2 aircraft that caused me to qualify my comment of the 190 being the best aircraft in the game I mentioned. There was also a prop driven plane who's designation I forget that was in very small quantities that was much better then the 190.

In the game the amount of 262's you got were not sufficent to make a differance, but you had the option of several variations on the rules one of which involved, basically, the 262's becoming available on the schdule it is estimated they would have for fighter deployment with no interference from the political leadership. In that game version the 262 could make differances in certain outcomes.

According to one of the sites I visited, many 262's were fitted for bombing duties but had to be re-retrofitted for fighter duty. It was at this time, after Goerring and Messerschmidt had convinced Hitler of the need for this plane as a fighter, that many 262's were destroyed by allied aircraft as they sat in fields awaiting the change-over. The significance of this plane can't be understated. Had it been deployed in early '44, it's presence may have forced allied bombing plans to change. There simply was no way to stop this plane with the fighter technology that was available at the time. The P-51's, the best and fastest we had, were simply no match.

[RTKar]

From what I've read, the allies would patrol the german airfields waiting for 262's to land when they were low on fuel on an approach, get behind them and knock them down. Yeager scored one that way.