Why couldn't FTG do this?

[cameraman]

So the IRL has no engines or audience and FTG is looking to merge.

Why wouldn't FTG step back a few years and cut a deal with USAC and make the IRL into a USAC level above Silver Crown? All of a sudden USAC series become your already successful ladder series, just like it used to be. All of a sudden the American home town drivers are working towards the 500, just like it used to be. All of a sudden they could get 40+ cars and drivers for the month of May. And it isn't like USAC couldn't use the boost from running in the 500.

Why is the idea of the IRL joining up with USAC crazier than the IRL joining up with CCWS? Who hates who more? And which fusion would be stronger?

[Racing Truth]

Well, what are you suggesting? If you're suggesting a mere partnership, well TG did that in Vision 1.0.

If you're suggesting something more, like a USAC-friendly formula, then we're talking about a major, major change.

[datachicane]

Silver Crown at St. Petersburg! YeeeHa!

:D
I'd pay money to see that.

[cameraman]

Well, what are you suggesting? If you're suggesting a mere partnership, well TG did that in Vision 1.0.

If you're suggesting something more, like a USAC-friendly formula, then we're talking about a major, major change.

I am suggesting USAC friendly formula. 100% total and complete change.

Is it any dumber an idea than putting stock blocks in a Dallara?

[Andrew Longman]

Is it any dumber an idea than putting stock blocks in a Dallara?

No, but even TG appears to have found the bottom of the stupid bucket.

No one watches USAC Crown events either. Using them as a feeder will bring neither interest, drivers or sponsors to the IRL.

Motorsport, just like auto making, has become part of the global economy. Its expensive to run race cars and anybody that can afford expensive things is likely to be doing things on a global scale. If TG has finally figured that out, fine. If not, his replacement will. Or in the case of the CCWS, they already have.

NASCAR may be big and may be the gorilla, but they reach their limits at our shores and maybe even closer both in distance and lifespan. They won't go away, they have done their homework and solid work. But there are limits for sure to their growth.

[FTG]

I've always wondered why he doesn't do this.

http://www.win.net/ratsnest/archive-articles21/fog0000000384.html

[oddlycalm]

Why is the idea of the IRL joining up with USAC crazier than the IRL joining up with CCWS? The major sponsors involved are no doubt being quite specific about what they want to see happen. That ain't it.

While theoretically TG can run the EARL out of his back pocket, he has to answer to others as well as the fact that he would look like more of a tewl that he already does, which on the tewl scale is around a 9.9 with a high degree of difficulty multiplier... :laugh:

oc

[cameraman]

The major sponsors involved are no doubt being quite specific about what they want to see happen. That ain't it.

If Toyota & Honda are gone, what major sponsors?

[oddlycalm]

If Toyota & Honda are gone, what major sponsors? Exactly my point. You wanna take a guess at how many rejections the various teams, promoters and the league have gotten in the last year? What do you suppose their central objection is? You think that TG is not made aware of every last turn down and what the substance of the meeting was?

Penske has done everything but come right out and report it in public, that is if you don't count that very visible business in the Wall Street Journal. He's having a tough time lining up post-Marlboro sponsorship. Honda being part of the negotiations is simply one of the loudest voices. The message is clear to anyone that is not deaf and blind. TG could simply tell them all to piss off, but there's not much chance he will.

You can bet ABC has plenty to say about how many more 2hr Sunday afternoon broadcasts they are going to do when there's not a damn thing happening on the track. Bump day? Carburetion day? Rain Day? Pole day? Spank the monkey day would bring in better ratings. Or reruns of Fantasy Island.

In theory it's certainly possible for TG to take it all back to 1962 and have Formula Gomer in association with USAC and local sponsors with broadcast being confined to radio, but what do you think the chances really are he wan't to go back to having local meat packing companies and hot dip galvanizing operations funding the cars? :D

Of course I'm still waiting for TG to sell signature venue rights to Preparation H or Anusol. Call the place the Ring of Fire and TG could be king of the swollen hemoroids. :gomer:

oc

[cameraman]

Well none of it makes sense.

Toyota is going cabing.
Honda will not stay alone.
There is no other IRL money.
There are no other IRL engines (ignore cosworth for the moment)

A merger would require KK and TG to:

Work with FTG to get Indy (which is the only thing of any value out there)
Work with Honda to come up with a workable competition with Cosworth. (Why would they want to do that?)
Risk no small amount of their own personal cash to try to resurrect a bunch of dying IRL oval races. (You think the appearance of Champ Cars is going to bring a 100K people to Richmond or Kansas? That is nuts. What CCWS might gain from having Indy is not worth the risk of trying to save the rest of the IRL.)

I will be shocked if there is a merger. I think KK & GF want to stay the hell away from the coming implosion.

[Andrew Longman]

In theory it's certainly possible for TG to take it all back to 1962 and have Formula Gomer in association with USAC and local sponsors with broadcast being confined to radio, but what do you think the chances really are he wan't to go back to having local meat packing companies and hot dip galvanizing operations funding the cars? :D oc

That's too f'in funny, but it does reveal the mentality of the gomeratizi. They did not want to televise it live (or even same day) because they were worried about hurting the gate receipts, but this was long after MLB and the NFL understood the importance of taking the product to a national audience. Sure ratings dropped once they took it our of prime time but that fails to recognize the importance the public was putting on seeing it live. Everything really important couldn't wait to be tape delayed.


I will be shocked if there is a merger. I think KK & GF want to stay the hell away from the coming implosion.

True enough, but the pieces of the I500 appear to be in the air. CCWS would be wise to be near them whereever they happen to land on the grou.nd

[Lizzerd]

I just read the first couple posts in this thread, so forgive me please if I'm saying something that somebody has already said.

Up until 1979, USAC was not only the the feeder series, but the sanctioning body of the entire Champ Car circuit. Flashback to Dan Gurney's White Paper. USAC remained the sanctioning body of the 500 after CART was formed and sanctioned irl until mid season '96 or '97 or thereabouts. Whenever the scoring snafu at some race happened.

Anyway, I don't mean to stomp on your idea, cameraman, but from the mid-50's or so when AAA was the sanctioning body until '79 that's the way it was.

[DagoFast]

I just read the first couple posts in this thread, so forgive me please if I'm saying something that somebody has already said.

Up until 1979, USAC was not only the the feeder series, but the sanctioning body of the entire Champ Car circuit. Flashback to Dan Gurney's White Paper. USAC remained the sanctioning body of the 500 after CART was formed and sanctioned irl until mid season '96 or '97 or thereabouts. Whenever the scoring snafu at some race happened.

Anyway, I don't mean to stomp on your idea, cameraman, but from the mid-50's or so when AAA was the sanctioning body until '79 that's the way it was.

Even I think he should go with the silver crown cars. The hard core gomeratti would give their left nut if it could be so. It would instantly re-make the race the relic of the past they all wish for. And it would make the place irrelavant to the rest of the world, which is perfect by me.

But sadly it probably won't happen, simply because it makes so much sense. Ftg will continue to fook up his free lunch.

FTG, findy and the .0rl are gonna be a BIG train wreck.
And no one can stop it. Not pimpski, not Mario, not fonda or yoder. Certainly not FTG.
NO ONE.

It took until THIS year for most average people to notice it was out of control. The passengers have been jumping off for years and original crew bailed. Now the new crew is really starting to panic. Only the gomeratti are unfazed, drinking Ftg's free booze in the clubcar.
FTG's dressed up in his engineer outfit and Ffred is tellin him he's the GREATEST engineer since Casey Jones.

When it finally jumps the tracks, the media will be on it like the OJ trial.

Stay clear of the area.

[cameraman]

Anyway, I don't mean to stomp on your idea, cameraman, but from the mid-50's or so when AAA was the sanctioning body until '79 that's the way it was. That is exactly what I mean. The Indy 500 as it happened in the 60's and 70's required a ton of entrants. There is no way in hell you are going to find a ton of entrants in 2006 when your engines are Hondas, Toyotas or Cosworths. There isn't enough money to do that. He has a choice, make the series inexpensive enough that 40+ cars can show up so there is a reason for the month of May to occur or just dump all the May stuff and become a three day weekend race just like every other race at which point Indy is just a big squared-off oval with drainage problems.

[Lizzerd]

I think you made my point for me, whatever my point was. Until the "British invasion" in the early to mid '60's, yes, the cars were basically the same as were run at the mile dirt tracks. USAC was indeed a feeder series then. But to suggest that the irl again employ USAC would also suggest, as you said, that the irl 500 run some sort of souped-up front engine Silver Crown car with wings, perhaps. I know a lot of the TF guys would love to see it, but if it does happen, only they will be happy and Boy George would be announcing 10,000 fan sell-outs soon.

Maybe I'm missing your point. If so, I'm sorry.

Then again, maybe you're just messing with us...

[cameraman]

Maybe I'm missing your point. If so, I'm sorry.

I am just thinking that FTG is screwed beyond hope and he has taken Indy down with him...

[Chief]

The scoring snafu indicated above was none other than the epic night race in Texas where Billy Boat was declared winner (6/7/97). Arie Lyundyk shows up near the victory lane flower bed spouting off about a scoring error. What resulted was CLASSIC EArL in it's glory. AJ Foyt confronted Arie by backhanding him with a slap and slamming the 2 time Indy 500 winner (Arie had just won Indy the week before) into the pansy bed after grabbing Arie's long "locks" and wrestling him with a bodyslam. It was SURREAL.

Turned out the USAC officials had it wrong and the day after Boat was relegated to 2nd and AJ's legacy was intact. A week or so later the IRL took over sanction/scoring responsibilities.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Spank the monkey day would bring in better ratings.
Damned FCC. :mad:

[datachicane]

FTG, findy and the .0rl are gonna be a BIG train wreck.
And no one can stop it. Not pimpski, not Mario, not fonda or yoder. Certainly not FTG.
NO ONE.


Once upon a time there was an engineer.
Drove a locomotive both far and near.
Accompanied by a monkey that would sit on a stool
Watching everything the engineer would do
One day the engineer wanted a bite to eat,
He left the monkey sitting on the driver's seat,
The monkey pulled the throttle, the locomotive jumped the gun
And did 80 miles an hour down the mainline run.

Big locomotive right on time, big locomotive coming down the
line.
Big locomotive no. 99, left the engineer with a worried mind.

:D

[DagoFast]

Once upon a time there was an engineer.
Drove a locomotive both far and near.
Accompanied by a monkey that would sit on a stool
Watching everything the engineer would do
One day the engineer wanted a bite to eat,
He left the monkey sitting on the driver's seat,
The monkey pulled the throttle, the locomotive jumped the gun
And did 80 miles an hour down the mainline run.

Big locomotive right on time, big locomotive coming down the
line.
Big locomotive no. 99, left the engineer with a worried mind.

:D

LOL! maybe the "partner" can cue that as the opening theme music this year? :rofl: :rofl:

[cameraman]

So the IRL has no engines or audience and FTG is looking to merge.

Why wouldn't FTG step back a few years and cut a deal with USAC and make the IRL into a USAC level above Silver Crown? All of a sudden USAC series become your already successful ladder series, just like it used to be. All of a sudden the American home town drivers are working towards the 500, just like it used to be. All of a sudden they could get 40+ cars and drivers for the month of May. And it isn't like USAC couldn't use the boost from running in the 500.

Why is the idea of the IRL joining up with USAC crazier than the IRL joining up with CCWS? Who hates who more? And which fusion would be stronger?

The idea vaporizes as NASCAR buys up Silver Crown.....

[coolhand]

The idea vaporizes as NASCAR buys up Silver Crown.....

this is perhaps why we see Tony's change of tune recently?

[Mike Kellner]

Driving that train, high on cocaine,
Casey jones is ready, watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

The Greatful Dead

:gomer:

[pchall]

I think you made my point for me, whatever my point was. Until the "British invasion" in the early to mid '60's, yes, the cars were basically the same as were run at the mile dirt tracks. USAC was indeed a feeder series then. But to suggest that the irl again employ USAC would also suggest, as you said, that the irl 500 run some sort of souped-up front engine Silver Crown car with wings, perhaps. I know a lot of the TF guys would love to see it, but if it does happen, only they will be happy and Boy George would be announcing 10,000 fan sell-outs soon.

Maybe I'm missing your point. If so, I'm sorry.

Then again, maybe you're just messing with us...

There was a big difference between the dirt champ cars and the speedway cars. So big that it took all of May to find the tenths of mph to fill the field.

[Mike Kellner]

I have the solution. Had it for years, but no one will listen....

Since the IRL uses spec chassis, make the 1962 Watson Roadster the spec, and run a short stroked 5 liter sprint car motor in them. The link between dirt & Indy is restored, pissant teams from Indiana can afford to run Indy, and the Gomers will cry a river when they see 33 roadsters lined up for the start, and The Prime Gomer sings Down Home Again.

All will be right in the world again for 4 hours.

:gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[cameraman]

Don't you guys remember the new Silver Crown pavement car they rolled out last December?

http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/49689_dsc_6739.jpg

Quite possibly the ugliest car on earth?

They have talked about putting wings on that thing and having it run around 220 mph.

Is the IRL going to be the top level of Nascar's Silver Crown series?

Oh and if you wanted to get a sled like that up to 220 you would need some serious HP, maybe 850 hp. Since it does not seem to have an airbox it would have to be a turbocharged 850 hp motor, like maybe a turbocharged V8...

[coolhand]

Don't you guys remember the new Silver Crown pavement car they rolled out last December?

http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/49689_dsc_6739.jpg

Quite possibly the ugliest car on earth?

They have talked about putting wings on that thing and having it run around 220 mph.

Is the IRL going to be the top level of Nascar's Silver Crown series?

Oh and if you wanted to get a sled like that up to 220 you would need some serious HP, maybe 850 hp. Since it does not seem to have an airbox it would have to be a turbocharged 850 hp motor, like maybe a turbocharged V8...


i dont know if you can call that open wheel

about usac.

here is the new ladder USAC/NASCAR

Karts, midgets, sprints, Silver crown, IRL, weekly stock car series, featherlight modifides, Arca, Trucks, BGN and then CUp

[cart7]

Actually, this would probably work. Of course, they'll need to redesign that fugly *** car but seriously, the average earl fan is really nothing more than an Indy 500 groupie who doesn't give a **** about the rest of the earl season, he'll be ecstatic that there'l be 33 with bumping in May. It'll probably pizz and run off the earl fans that wanted to see formula road cars running in a series controlled by FTG and the last group, the Cart/.1rl fence sitters will walk. So after figuring in the new fans, many of them the founding gomers who fell for the original Tony vision who'll come back as long as Tony offers some reduced ticket prices as an apology for straying from his original idea - the pizzed off fans = about what the earl is pulling now give or take a thousand here or there.

Actually, if they streamline those speedway cars and can get them up to 220mph, it'll certainly make for some interesting crash highlite film on Sportscenter. Imagine a FE roadster doing end-over-ends on the backstretch at Indy at 200mph! :eek:

[Mike Kellner]

I bet that the number of flips a flipping sprint car can do a varies with the square of velocity. If they flip a dozen times at 100 mph, they should do 4 dozen end overs at 200. That oughta be an exciting ride.

If they are considering these butt ugly cars, wouldn't Watson Roadsters be a better alternative?

I can't wait to see sprint cars racing on the streets. :gomer:

mk