View Full Version : 20,000 grandstand seats at San Jose
FCYTravis
06-10-05, 10:57 PM
The grandstands will accommodate about 20,000, (race president Dale) Jantzen said. All of those seats are sold only in three-day passes that cover the entire race weekend. General-admission tickets can be purchased for each of the three days, or for all three at a reduced rate.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/special_packages/sjgrandprix/11861689.htm
This is the future of Champ Car? 20,000 seats sold as three-day packages so they can claim 60,000 weekend?
:shakehead
racer2c
06-10-05, 11:09 PM
20K for a street race. :shakehead
Considering that the IRL got something along those lines for St Pete it makes you wonder why they bother at all. You mean to tell me the CCWS can't get 20K for an RA race if they really promoted? Puleeze.
The purpose of street races is to gain 75 to 100 K of built in paying customers. If it's not in that ballpark, why bother?
Really shows you what the state of the sport is. :mad:
Methanolandbrats
06-10-05, 11:16 PM
There were over 30k at RA in 04, up from 03. Champcar screwed the pooch big time this year.
High Sided
06-11-05, 03:57 AM
Champcar screwed the pooch big time this year.
this year? what about the bobby ra-something year, joe-something year, chris pooh year, lets go public year, lets do what ever we can to try to fix them years, then bankrupt to a spec racing series with a few years coming ahead. if kk wasn't sent from the racing gods this will turn out to be the biggest tease for real race fans we've had in nearly 10 years. i just cross my fingers and hope kk sticks to a sound 5 year plan.
chop456
06-11-05, 04:06 AM
There were over 30k at RA in 04, up from 03. Champcar screwed the pooch big time this year.
Can't reveal my sources, I'm afraid, but I've heard that Road America will be back on the schedule.
The tentative date is Wednesday, November 16th.
Can't reveal my sources, I'm afraid, but I've heard that Road America will be back on the schedule.
The tentative date is Wednesday, November 16th.
oh ya, that sounds PLENTY warm, just like an aggy dutch oven in july
There were over 30k at RA in 04, up from 03. Champcar screwed the pooch big time this year.
Wasn't 03 the year of the monsoon? A bit of a stretch IMO to claim things were better in 04. Yes I was there both years. In 04 they didn't even bother to set up a beer stand in turn 5.
Lots of pissing and moaning here about a US race that has never been held yet. :rolleyes:
Can't reveal my sources, I'm afraid, but I've heard that Road America will be back on the schedule.
The tentative date is Wednesday, November 16th.
Tuesday at 8am is the charity track walk...they're asking everyone to bring a snow shovel.
Insomniac
06-11-05, 09:13 AM
20K for a street race. :shakehead
Considering that the IRL got something along those lines for St Pete it makes you wonder why they bother at all. You mean to tell me the CCWS can't get 20K for an RA race if they really promoted? Puleeze.
The purpose of street races is to gain 75 to 100 K of built in paying customers. If it's not in that ballpark, why bother?
Really shows you what the state of the sport is. :mad:
I'm just curious, do you know what they did differently to promote races before the attendance just kept dropping?
Just from my personal experience growing up at least, the only reason I knew about CART was TV and probably the Indianapolis 500.
I'm just curious, do you know what they did differently to promote races before the attendance just kept dropping?
In the case of MO, it was the loss of the race sponsor, Miller Lite, which did the majority of the race marketing in Ohiya. Once they bailed, it was up the track owner to do it, and she dint do a very good job. However, she is doing a bang up job of running the track into the ground. :shakehead
Plus, the race took a hit when the local favorite, Booby Ray Hole, retired as a driver.
-Kevin
Racing Truth
06-11-05, 12:08 PM
The grandstands will accommodate about 20,000, (race president Dale) Jantzen said. All of those seats are sold only in three-day passes that cover the entire race weekend. General-admission tickets can be purchased for each of the three days, or for all three at a reduced rate.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/special_packages/sjgrandprix/11861689.htm
This is the future of Champ Car? 20,000 seats sold as three-day packages so they can claim 60,000 weekend?
:shakehead
Say it with me now: YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT SAN JOSE MEANS! :gomer:
H=ll, it strikes as not even being worth the effort for that attendance.
oddlycalm
06-11-05, 04:09 PM
Can't reveal my sources, I'm afraid, but I've heard that Road America will be back on the schedule.
The tentative date is Wednesday, November 16th. Close, but I've got an elf at the North Pole on Santa's pit crew that swears it's gonna be on December 24th and that it'll be a night race... ;)
oc
greenie
06-11-05, 04:33 PM
This is the future of Champ Car? 20,000 seats sold as three-day packages so they can claim 60,000 weekend?
:shakehead
Before you lob out stupid commentary like this Travis, visit the LBGP. Or get back to logic class - yesterday.
There are establishments within the circuit that have many thousands of people - all GA. I'll be at San Jose - GA - along w/everyone in the Marriott. It's in the circuit. Count me for three days. Or don't if you are a lemming.
Example: Anaheim Stadium houses - say - 35k. By your logic, a weekend homestand should only count as 35k because they are the same seats? By extension, the whole year should count as 35k. Fuzzy math, expected from the downtowndeco's of the world, but not you.
Now how's team Crapwagon going? Or has that been ,,,paper'd,,, over?
;)
Say it with me now: YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT SAN JOSE MEANS! :gomer:
H=ll, it strikes as not even being worth the effort for that attendance.
Say it with me now: You just don't know what GRANDSTAND means at a street circuit. :gomer:
There is a lot of excitement for the San Jose race, from many non racing fans. The place will be packed. That wouldn't be happening if the race were at Laguna.
Racing Truth
06-11-05, 04:53 PM
There is a lot of excitement for the San Jose race, from many non racing fans. The place will be packed. That wouldn't be happening if the race were at Laguna.
WOOHOO!. All 20k of them. :gomer:
Yes, I know people will mill about, but you'll have 20,000 paying customers on race day. Brilliant.
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 05:00 PM
Before you lob out stupid commentary like this Travis, visit the LBGP.
Last time I was at the LBGP, there were a whole lot more than 20,000 grandstand seats.
Selling 20,000 three-day tickets doesn't equal 60,000 attendance. To say otherwise is denial math.
greenie
06-11-05, 05:01 PM
Last time I was at the LBGP, there were a whole lot more than 20,000 grandstand seats.
WTF?
You got me there I guess. :rolleyes:
greenie
06-11-05, 05:06 PM
Selling 20,000 three-day tickets doesn't equal 60,000 attendance. To say otherwise is denial math.
How much should one season ticket count for an NFL team? 1 or 16? It's one seat, but there are 16 days. Baffling.
You're hanging out at Camp & Brew too much, buddy.
:thumdown:
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 05:07 PM
So it's logical to claim 75,000 raceday when you've got more like 50,000 grandstand seats.
If that season ticketholder doesn't put his or her butt in that seat, they're not actually attending, are they? When I show up on Fridays to Champ Car events, they're usually pretty empty. Empty as an IRL race? Nah. But most assuredly, not every one of those 20,000 ticketholders is going to show up all three days. Not even *most* of those 20,000 ticketholders. You might get 5,000 Friday, 10,000 Saturday and 20,000 Sunday. 35,000. Sounds more reasonable than 60,000.
People can make up fuzzy math all we want, but you can't hide empty grandstands. See Fontana IRL. See Milwaukee CCWS.
As for C&B, I think you'd better ask Spicoli about that. He's got more recent experience than me :laugh:
greenie
06-11-05, 05:11 PM
So it's logical to claim 75,000 raceday when you've got more like 50,000 grandstand seats.
This math class is over Travis. You buy the lemming spew that a three day attendance shouldn't count for whatever reason.
If I pay and go to Star Wars 50 times, how is that any different to the movie theater than 50 different geeks going there once each?
Get back to me with that one.
I'll wait.
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 05:14 PM
Lemming spew?
No, I just count three-day attendance honestly instead of making up inflated numbers. If someone buys a ticket for three days but doesn't show up for two of those days, how is that person counted three times?
If someone buys a ticket for three days and shows up all three days, count 'em three times. That's fair. But don't be disingenuous and pretend that everyone who buys a three-day ticket attends all three days. It's just not true. It's as intellectually dishonest as pretending that Pole Day attendance hasn't crashed.
Nor does it actually fool anyone except ourselves. CART put out a great big fluff press release at the end of 2003 - "Hey, we had the biggest reported attendance in history!"
Then the series went bankrupt.
Edit: It's even more not true when EVERY GRANDSTAND SEAT IS SOLD ONLY AS THREE DAY.
If you buy a grandstand seat and fly into San Jose on Saturday night to catch the race Sunday morning, should you be counted as attending two days when you weren't even in the same time zone as the race?
We righteously bitch at IMS for inflating their attendance counts by including every yellow-shirt, vendor and purported GA-person in the now-barely-existent-infield in their counts. We make fun of it. It behooves us to not be as dishonest as they are.
Racing Truth
06-11-05, 05:27 PM
Travis, Travis, Travis...
You just don't know what fuzzy math means. :gomer:
Insomniac
06-11-05, 05:44 PM
In the case of MO, it was the loss of the race sponsor, Miller Lite, which did the majority of the race marketing in Ohiya. Once they bailed, it was up the track owner to do it, and she dint do a very good job. However, she is doing a bang up job of running the track into the ground. :shakehead
Plus, the race took a hit when the local favorite, Booby Ray Hole, retired as a driver.
-Kevin
So Miller would promote it with beer sales or something?
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 05:48 PM
Banners in bars, billboards, point-of-sale ads, etc.
Big consumer sponsorships, properly activated, do wonders for racing series. You get your name splattered all over every supermarket, convenience store and corner tavern in the area.
Insomniac
06-11-05, 05:52 PM
Lemming spew?
No, I just count three-day attendance honestly instead of making up inflated numbers. If someone buys a ticket for three days but doesn't show up for two of those days, how is that person counted three times?
If someone buys a ticket for three days and shows up all three days, count 'em three times. That's fair. But don't be disingenuous and pretend that everyone who buys a three-day ticket attends all three days. It's just not true. It's as intellectually dishonest as pretending that Pole Day attendance hasn't crashed.
Nor does it actually fool anyone except ourselves. CART put out a great big fluff press release at the end of 2003 - "Hey, we had the biggest reported attendance in history!"
Then the series went bankrupt.
Edit: It's even more not true when EVERY GRANDSTAND SEAT IS SOLD ONLY AS THREE DAY.
If you buy a grandstand seat and fly into San Jose on Saturday night to catch the race Sunday morning, should you be counted as attending two days when you weren't even in the same time zone as the race?
We righteously bitch at IMS for inflating their attendance counts by including every yellow-shirt, vendor and purported GA-person in the now-barely-existent-infield in their counts. We make fun of it. It behooves us to not be as dishonest as they are.
The attendance count matters only depending on who cares. If you're a promoter, all you care about is paid attendace. You don't care if someone bought a 3 day ticket and showed up one day or 3 days. If you have track signage up, you probably care how many unique people showed up more than total people, although total people has meaning becuase the longer they are there the more they'll see your signage. If you are in PR, you care about the biggest number, paid attendace per day. If you're a reporter who wants to make them look bad, you show up on race day and count heads. And normally, they report race day attendance in addition to weekend attendance which may include people who did not show up.
Before, fans never cared. It was only sold out/packed. Now we all fight over numbers and how they were determined.
Here's some more tough math. :laugh:
John buys three-day seats for himself and his friends Jane and Harry.
John then takes a train to Chicago which travels at an average speed of 50 MPH while moving west-to-east and 40 MPH while moving east-to-west. If the temperature changed an average 10 degrees per day, how many three-day seats did John buy? :rofl:
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 06:14 PM
:rofl:
This math class is over Travis. You buy the lemming spew that a three day attendance shouldn't count for whatever reason.
If I pay and go to Star Wars 50 times, how is that any different to the movie theater than 50 different geeks going there once each?
Get back to me with that one.
I'll wait.
d00d, let's compare apples to apples, eh? A season ticket to a stick and ball sporting event counts as attendance @ the game. The last time I checked, they don't count attendance @ practice as attendance @ the GAME. The same goes for the race event. There is only one race or main event. Race promoters may count total attendance for the weekend, but they don't get the same $$$ for practice and quals. For example, Sunday only @ Cleveland is like $75. For a three-day pass, it's like $85-90. So they are collecting $5-$10 additional for Fri or Sat each.
I'd expect that kind of mathematical login out of SOG or f00boy... :gomer:
Suffice it to say that the promoter is only expecting to sell 20K grandstands seats FOR THE RACE, and that is very underwhelming. :(
-Kevin
Banners in bars, billboards, point-of-sale ads, etc.
Big consumer sponsorships, properly activated, do wonders for racing series. You get your name splattered all over every supermarket, convenience store and corner tavern in the area.
Bingo. Local bars and supermarkets would be plastered with marketing materials for MO. Once Miller bailed, all Michelle and crew did was some spotty advertising in newspapers and direct mail. There was no partner to help drive the message on the event.
-Kevin
d00d, let's compare apples to apples, eh? A season ticket to a stick and ball sporting event counts as attendance @ the game. The last time I checked, they don't count attendance @ practice as attendance @ the GAME. The same goes for the race event. There is only one race or main event. Race promoters may count total attendance for the weekend, but they don't get the same $$$ for practice and quals. For example, Sunday only @ Cleveland is like $75. For a three-day pass, it's like $85-90. So they are collecting $5-$10 additional for Fri or Sat each.
I'd expect that kind of mathematical login out of SOG or f00boy... :gomer:
Suffice it to say that the promoter is only expecting to sell 20K grandstands seats FOR THE RACE, and that is very underwhelming. :(
-Kevin
Since when is GRANDSTAND even close to GA at a street circuit? ;)
You've got a new venue with 20K grandstand seats. Don't worry so much.
All I can say is, they better be able to sell 20k seats or this whole thing might as well pack it up and move on to the far east for good.
Suffice it to say that the promoter is only expecting to sell 20K grandstands seats FOR THE RACE, and that is very underwhelming. :(
You are forgetting general admission.
Again, a whole lot of angst about a race that hasn't been held yet. :shakehead
You are forgetting general admission.
Again, a whole lot of angst about a race that hasn't been held yet. :shakehead
No, I'm not. I specifically stated GRANDSTAND seats. Sure, there will be a GA crowd, too, but I highly doubt it'll match the crowd in the stands. Site lines for GA @ a street race are not like GA @ a road course like MO. Also, I'm not proclaiming that the sky is falling, just that the expectations going into the race are underwhelming. The promoter based this figure on something, and my edumacated guess is that it's based on the interest they've received thus far for tix. RA and MO could easliy eclipse numbers like these.
-Kevin
Since when is GRANDSTAND even close to GA at a street circuit? ;)
You've got a new venue with 20K grandstand seats. Don't worry so much.
I've been to Houston, homey. I'm 6' 3", and I couldn't see jack unless I was in the stands. I'm sure as heck not going to spend $30 or $40 just to drink and socialize, and watch the race on a jumbotron. I can do that in my backyard for free. :)
-Kevin
greenie
06-11-05, 07:12 PM
d00d, let's compare apples to apples, eh? A season ticket to a stick and ball sporting event counts as attendance @ the game. The last time I checked, they don't count attendance @ practice as attendance @ the GAME.
Practice? Whatever dood. Go to "practice" on Sat at the LBGP. It's a little racey. If the Lakers could make dough off their "practices" they probably would - but that's different isn't it?
And thanks because you are making my point perfectly - attendance is attendance - practice or not.
Bottom line: Who cares? If you are there and having fun, that's the goal.
FCYTravis
06-11-05, 07:13 PM
If the Lakers could make dough off their "practices" they probably would - but that's different isn't it?
They might have been able to a couple years ago :(
@U#(%&@#%()@#%@%(@#JO team chemistry.
Sorry for the hijack ;)
(Has a 1987 World Champions pennant on his office wall)
Before you lob out stupid commentary like this Travis, visit the LBGP. Or get back to logic class - yesterday.
There are establishments within the circuit that have many thousands of people - all GA. I'll be at San Jose - GA - along w/everyone in the Marriott. It's in the circuit. Count me for three days. Or don't if you are a lemming.
Example: Anaheim Stadium houses - say - 35k. By your logic, a weekend homestand should only count as 35k because they are the same seats? By extension, the whole year should count as 35k. Fuzzy math, expected from the downtowndeco's of the world, but not you.
Now how's team Crapwagon going? Or has that been ,,,paper'd,,, over?
;)
:rolleyes:
yes because you know how the vast majority of people only go to a race for one day and other people replace them for the next day...
baseball diff ppl go diff days...
racing the same ppl on friday show up on sunday...
you shouldn't be the one talking logic smack with that kind of weak argument
Practice? Whatever dood. Go to "practice" on Sat at the LBGP. It's a little racey. If the Lakers could make dough off their "practices" they probably would - but that's different isn't it?
And thanks because you are making my point perfectly - attendance is attendance - practice or not.
Bottom line: Who cares? If you are there and having fun, that's the goal.
I did, everyone was there to watch the celicas... "dad, how do they keep the rain off their helmets" "oh they use Rain-X son"
I've been to Houston, homey. I'm 6' 3", and I couldn't see jack unless I was in the stands. I'm sure as heck not going to spend $30 or $40 just to drink and socialize, and watch the race on a jumbotron. I can do that in my backyard for free. :)
-Kevin
werd, although I missed my annual pilgrimage to mtl this year due to airfare (freaking delta will fly me for $200 w/ last minute deal :flame: plus roomie's $75 voucher!!! ) there's no way i'm showing up at circuit gilles villeneuve w/o silver or gold tickets, even the bronze stands suck ass and GA's a JOKE
I'd expect that kind of mathematical login out of SOG or f00boy...
don't hate cuz you wish you had these brains. It's hard to stay this pretty ;) takes time, and effort, dedication!!! and don't ever compare me to parking-lot racerboy again :p
well actually, only takes lots of beer and a lounge chair by the pool :( *shrug* still a good time :)
And thanks because you are making my point perfectly - attendance is attendance - practice or not.
Bottom line: Who cares? If you are there and having fun, that's the goal.
sponsors care, sponsors want the most eyeballs for the $, they don't GAF if it's the same eyeballs for 3 days, they want 3 diff sets, and that doesn't happen...
greenie
06-11-05, 07:26 PM
sponsors care, sponsors want the most eyeballs for the $, they don't GAF if it's the same eyeballs for 3 days, they want 3 diff sets, and that doesn't happen...
Really? Then why are they sponsoring the Green Bay Packers? Those seats get handed down for generations, Einstein.
Racing Truth
06-11-05, 07:34 PM
I dunno. Maybe greenie would feel more at home HERE (http://champcarfanatics.com) . :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
06-11-05, 08:35 PM
Actually, a crowd of 20k is huge for an autocross track.
I've been to Houston, homey. I'm 6' 3", and I couldn't see jack unless I was in the stands. I'm sure as heck not going to spend $30 or $40 just to drink and socialize, and watch the race on a jumbotron. I can do that in my backyard for free. :)
-Kevin
You're not thinking like a promoter. ;)
Seats are seats and GA is GA and both will sell tickets.
From a promoter's point of view, if some dude buys tickets for one day or three and doesn't show, why should he care? The tickets got sold.
Honestly, in this thread I don't know what you're all arguing about. Its a first year race and they'll use this year's crowd to gauge next year's crowd.
People seem to be posting about something that looks a lot like Perception. The folks who write the stories control that, not the fans in the seats.
I'm late to the party. Without reading this entire pissing contest, what's the issue?
Are we taking the GooberForum "three day attendance is a scam perpetrated by the scorched earth society formerly known as C^RT" line of thinking to bag on Greenie? Bob Singleton is the promotor, I work with his former crew on a daily basis, and the last thing I would do at this early stage is get all twisted about perceived seating arrangements. If every track had a Singleton they'd all sell out. And as far as GA is concerned, there are tracks were GA is as cool as a grandstand, you just have to know where to look. And for the guy that said Houston GA sucked, of course it did. The best place to watch that race was a widescreen in a bar.
I'm late to the party. Without reading this entire pissing contest, what's the issue?
Are we taking the GooberForum "three day attendance is a scam perpetrated by the scorched earth society formerly known as C^RT" line of thinking to bag on Greenie? Bob Singleton is the promotor, I work with his former crew on a daily basis, and the last thing I would do at this early stage is get all twisted about perceived seating arrangements. If every track had a Singleton they'd all sell out. And as far as GA is concerned, there are tracks were GA is as cool as a grandstand, you just have to know where to look. And for the guy that said Houston GA sucked, of course it did. The best place to watch that race was a widescreen in a bar.
JT, I hope you're right about Singleton, and I do hope SJ is a successful race. Folks like me are just pizzed off that classic tracks like MO and RA are being replaced with events like this, as well as foresaking promising new venues like St. Pete.
re: Houston, that was my comment. Houston was a hugely successful race, despite the horrific wx for the inagural race. There were good spots to catch the race in the stands. My point about GA being a poor choice for a street race was simply that peeking over a concrete barrier @ ground level and through chain link fence does not present good site lines unlike a natural terrain road course like MO.
To each their own, tho.
-Kevin
racer2c
06-11-05, 11:29 PM
From a mile high perspective, all I know is that if the CCWS is going to start banking on street races as their cash cow, 20K at some C level city aint' gonna cut it.
Go to Chicago, go to New York, go to Dallas, go to Seattle, go to Miami.
Forget, Albuquerque, Richmond, Toledo, San Jose, Santa Fe, Buffalo, Little Rock, Charleston...
If they’re going street racing across the country to get 20K, heck they might as well strap on roller skates and call themselves the Championship Street Derby and save a bunch of money. They could get some big breasttheses hotties and make it a party.
greenie
06-11-05, 11:36 PM
From a mile high perspective, all I know is that if the CCWS is going to start banking on street races as their cash cow, 20K at some C level city aint' gonna cut it. .
The 20k thing, if true, would be unnaceptable. San Jose isn't a Busch city. IMO it's a perfect place to throw a street show. NoCal's show up for events.
I'll see ya'll there - unless you are just typists. Which is probabbly the case for most of ya'll (JT/Ziggy --edit Travis too excepted)
I'll see ya'll there - unless you are just typists. Which is probabbly the case for most of ya'll (JT/Ziggy --edit Travis too excepted)
Sorry, holmes...SJ might as well be China for me. Ohiya to Texas is as far as I've gone for a race. I'd only consider trips that far for LBGP or Portland. Races with great histories that interest me.
-Kevin
Sean O'Gorman
06-11-05, 11:54 PM
So here is a question.
If a sponsor asks, "so how many PEOPLE will be seeing this race car on X weekend at X track?", what do you tell him?
greenie
06-11-05, 11:59 PM
Sorry, holmes...SJ might as well be China for me. Ohiya to Texas is as far as I've gone for a race. I'd only consider trips that far for LBGP or Portland. Races with great histories that interest me.
-Kevin
No sweat - catch you at the next race --- If you quit typing and actually show up.
And by the way, "holmes", you're either badass or an 80s loser. My money's on the loser play, but show up at a race and I'll by you a spritzer. If you don't puke in 10 minutes, you're a winner. Let's see how it goes.
:cool:
So here is a question.
If a sponsor asks, "so how many PEOPLE will be seeing this race car on X weekend at X track?", what do you tell him?
I will forward the Joyce Julius report to you in the morning. Now go polish your spinners. :gomer:
:D
racer2c
06-12-05, 12:09 AM
No sweat - catch you at the next race --- If you quit typing and actually show up.
And by the way, "holmes", you're either badass or an 80s loser. My money's on the loser play, but show up at a race and I'll by you a spritzer. If you don't puke in 10 minutes, you're a winner. Let's see how it goes.
:cool:
get lost. :thumdown:
Methanolandbrats
06-12-05, 12:11 AM
WTF is a "spritzer"? Sounds like something Danicle Wheldon would enjoy with his boyfriend.
greenie
06-12-05, 12:14 AM
WTF is a "spritzer"? Sounds like something Danicle Wheldon would enjoy with his boyfriend.
Zing! - Just a ***** drink. :cool:
get lost. :thumdown:
I won't dignify the cr@p Greenie posts with any further responses. Someone left the door open and Silva 2 got in.
:shakehead
-Kevin
greenie
06-12-05, 12:15 AM
get lost. :thumdown:
Sure thing! :thumbup:
greenie
06-12-05, 12:22 AM
Ya'll lighten up. :thumbup:
,,,war in racing ,,,
Dr. Corkski
06-12-05, 12:36 AM
O'Gorman wishes he has 20k to go see him Auto-x. :gomer:
greenie
06-12-05, 12:44 AM
O'Gorman wishes he has 20k to go see him Auto-x. :gomer:
Dr. - I don't know who you are - but you are a funny MoFo. :rofl:
Cheers!
:thumbup:
FCYTravis
06-12-05, 12:49 AM
Feel the love. Everyone down a beer or two. Meltdowns r,,, 4 that,,, other place,,,
dang.
my kind of forum. :p
i'm glad dando thinks california is like china. :gomer:
dude, if texas is as far as you will go for a race, i hear there are plenty of seats available for the St. Louise race that your girl, Japanica, is in.
Go Rahal! :gomer: :again:
For comparison purposes, does anyone know how many grandstand seats are available at Long Beach or Toronto or Denver? How about in the past at Houston or Detroit?
Arguing about 20 K at a race???? The bigger problem is TV ratings. Even 50,000 fan sellouts won't do diddly if those folks don't tune in to other races from the comfort of their lazy boy.
dang.
my kind of forum. :p
i'm glad dando thinks california is like china. :gomer:
dude, if texas is as far as you will go for a race, i hear there are plenty of seats available for the St. Louise race that your girl, Japanica, is in.
Go Rahal! :gomer: :again:
Might as well be, if you get on a plane and fly to races the the only difference is the price and the flight time.
Those of you who "go to races" can tell us (the ones that need a race within 700 miles of home) how good Korea and Australia was this year.
Fly to Australia, or anywhere overseas for Champcar...don't think so. I'd rather spend the time and money needed for that on F1. Champcar circa 91,92,93...maybe but not for what it is now. Hopefully the "new" locals will take to it like they do fried rice and help with the survival of the series but I have my doubts.
^^^Exactly, I`ll easily spend 5K on a fly away race. Bernie is the one most likely to get that money from me these days.
But I`m sure that the next new race in New Zealand will still get some rah rahs from some.
As far as San Jose goes, that`s KK`s baby, good thing we gave up fighting for St. Pete to get the likes of San Jose. :shakehead
pferrf1
06-12-05, 12:48 PM
Fly to Australia, or anywhere overseas for Champcar...don't think so. I'd rather spend the time and money needed for that on F1. Champcar circa 91,92,93...maybe but not for what it is now. Hopefully the "new" locals will take to it like they do fried rice and help with the survival of the series but I have my doubts.
I did it last year to go to Surfers. Awesome trip. I'd do it again no problem.
Besides, aside from Monza and Monte Carlo and Spa, you're better off going to Montreal for F1.
But quite frankly, you and I are not the point in goign to Korea, China etc.
Putting logos on the sidepods of cars and extra cars ont he grid is. NAFTA markets are just about tapped out for OW racing sponsors.
I did it last year to go to Surfers. Awesome trip. I'd do it again no problem.
Besides, aside from Monza and Monte Carlo and Spa, you're better off going to Montreal for F1.
But quite frankly, you and I are not the point in goign to Korea, China etc.
Putting logos on the sidepods of cars and extra cars ont he grid is. NAFTA markets are just about tapped out for OW racing sponsors.
I agree that you and I aren't the point in overseas races but I fully expect sponsor announcements along with them. Also, my major concern is TV ratings. If they don't tune in after the circus leaves town, creating an audience, the whole point becomes diluted at the expense of North America and any chance of rebuilding our fan base here.
I think crapwagon is that way
-------->
Really? Then why are they sponsoring the Green Bay Packers? Those seats get handed down for generations, Einstein.
it's called television and the most popular sport in the United States
TravelGal
06-12-05, 02:18 PM
Having read as little as possible -- enough to get the gist but not enough to scorch my eyeballs -- I want to add that I don't care about the TV ratings, or who counts who for what. I don't care about anything but ME ME ME. I can't get a decent seat to see this race and I'm pizzed. So there. :p
It's nice that they want to make it an "event" but could we have enough seats so we can see the race also?
The fact that I should have bought my ticket 3 months ago has nothing to do with it. :gomer:
Nice to see you here Greenie. IF I can find a decent place to park my bod, I'll look for you in San Jose as well. In the Marriott was it?
greenie
06-12-05, 04:18 PM
Nice to see you here Greenie. IF I can find a decent place to park my bod, I'll look for you in San Jose as well. In the Marriott was it?
Inside the circuit - locked and loaded.
You can hang out - but don't pretend you're an attendee. Just like cocktail hour at the Hyatt at the LBGP - we don't count. Except for Sunday. :cool:
And TG - Did someone launch a stupid virus here? Please get to the bottom of this.
:D
greenie
06-12-05, 04:24 PM
it's called television and the most popular sport in the United States
Is it? Nice deflection, rock star. :gomer:
:thumbup:
greenie
06-12-05, 04:27 PM
I think crapwagon is that way
-------->
Wow. A thinker.
:gomer:
Might as well be, if you get on a plane and fly to races the the only difference is the price and the flight time.
Those of you who "go to races" can tell us (the ones that need a race within 700 miles of home) how good Korea and Australia was this year.
hopefully when you get old enough to obtain your dribers license you can see racing in person too.
:gomer:
BTW - I'm hitting Austrailia in 5 years. Save your pennies from being a paper-boy, and I'll buy you a lager down under, bloke.
Bingo. Local bars and supermarkets would be plastered with marketing materials for MO. Once Miller bailed, all Michelle and crew did was some spotty advertising in newspapers and direct mail. There was no partner to help drive the message on the event.
-Kevin
I remember seeing some newspaper ads for the M-O race after Miller bailed. They were paid for by CART.
This thread reads like the same anti-street racing stuff we've been seeing from lemmings for years. I guess whether you buy it only depends on whether your favorite races are the ones being replaced.
Here's my response. So what? How many grandstand seats did Long Beach have it's first year? Toronto? If you think the number of grandstand seats is relevant to why Champ car will be racing in San Jose this year and not Laguna Seca, then you just don't understand the economics of open wheel racing in 2005.
Champ car didn't just decide to go street racing because they like the idea. It's a way to attract people and sponsors who could care less about a natural terrain course even if it's just an hour away. The sad truth is that 20,000 grandstand seats is probably 10,000 more than showed up at Laguna Seca last year.
Clearly there is a value in running the natural terrain road courses as a loss leader to attract the diehard road course fans. But I'm willing to let Champ car make it's own decisions on how much they're willing to lose each season.
The sad truth is that 20,000 grandstand seats is probably 10,000 more than showed up at Laguna Seca last year.
word. If people won't come see the Champ Cars, gotta run downtown.
Warlock!
06-13-05, 08:29 AM
BTW - I'm hitting Austrailia in 5 years.
So, save for RA last year, that's why you haven't been out of the state of ohio for a champcar race :D
Sean O'Gorman
06-13-05, 09:05 AM
word. If people won't come see the Champ Cars, gotta run downtown.
No, if people wont come to see the Champ Cars, gotta change the product so that they WILL. Street races are just a bandaid that make the problem worse.
So, save for RA last year, that's why you haven't been out of the state of ohio for a champcar race :D
Hater. Oz is the next exit past Wapakoneta. :p
:rofl:
TorontoWorker
06-13-05, 09:15 AM
I've been to Houston, homey. I'm 6' 3", and I couldn't see jack unless I was in the stands. I'm sure as heck not going to spend $30 or $40 just to drink and socialize, and watch the race on a jumbotron. I can do that in my backyard for free. :)
-Kevin
You have a Jumbotron in your backyard?! Hell my wife gets pis4ed off when I even whisper the *plasma* word around the house... Crap, I've gotta use you as an example now, as in: "But Honey, I know this guy with a Jumbotron in his backyard, HIS wife didn't mind. A Plasma's really economical compared to one of those..." :rofl:
Methanolandbrats
06-13-05, 09:32 AM
FLy to Australia to watch Fabio tool around in CART Lite...........I don't think so. CART was the pinnacle of North American Auto Racing and they will never upstage F1 on the Global Stage. What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races. So Champcar better hope that the locals in China, Korea and Zaire or wherever the hell they end up have some cash and develop the passion that used to exist in North America or it's all over.
"But Honey, I know this guy with a Jumbotron in his backyard, HIS wife didn't mind. A Plasma's really economical compared to one of those..." :rofl:
:thumbup: Good luck with that! :laugh:
What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races.
Strange. I know a few that do just that, I suppose I should enlighten them.
What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races.
Strange. I know a few that do just that, I suppose I should enlighten them.
When you include motels and dining etc. We spend almost that each year. It was the same when we were flying in to Milwaukee to go to RA.
Methanolandbrats
06-13-05, 10:25 AM
What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races.
Strange. I know a few that do just that, I suppose I should enlighten them.Few would be the key word there. But it's all good, the Chinese masses have huge disposable incomes, so maybe 20,000 of them will fly to San Jose.
Sean O'Gorman
06-13-05, 11:11 AM
What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races.
Strange. I know a few that do just that, I suppose I should enlighten them.
Obviously there are enough of them to put sponsors on the sidepods and keep Forsythe and Kalkhoven from having to fund so many cars, right?
Dirty Sanchez
06-13-05, 11:52 AM
I think I could find a way to hate on everyone in this thread... even greenie... who rocks :laugh:
San Jose "we'll count you as many times as you want" :gomer: Its not Laguna Seca... but it is 1.4, no wait, 1.6 miles of pure Champ Car fury. come see the stars and cars* :saywhat:
*drivers TBA :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
06-13-05, 12:37 PM
Obviously there are enough of them to put sponsors on the sidepods and keep Forsythe and Kalkhoven from having to fund so many cars, right?Yes, I'm afraid all the chartered 747s headed for Korea will fill before I get my reservation in. And what if the gold grandstand in China sells out, then I'll be stuck buying a ticket from a scralper for insane yuan :cry:
http://www.chinatoday.com/fin/mon/rmb100new.jpg
1.968 mi - Long Beach
2.104 mi - Monterrey
1.969 mi - Portland
2.106 mi - Cleveland
1.755 mi - Toronto
1.960 mi - Edmonton
1.600 mi - San Jose
1.647 mi - Denver
2.709 mi - Montreal
2.795 mi - Surfers'
2.786 mi - Mexico City
Okay, so it's short. On the plus side, I won't have to wait as long for the cars to come around again. :p
Sean O'Gorman
06-13-05, 02:22 PM
Okay, so it's short. On the plus side, I won't have to wait as long for the cars to come around again. :p
And you'll get to see them for a good amount of time each lap since they'll be going at autocross speeds. :p
So 0.368 miles difference transforms a world-class street course event length into an autocross length......check.
Racing Truth
06-13-05, 02:29 PM
What loyal fans of CART remain are not going to spend $10,000 a year flying to races.
Strange. I know a few that do just that, I suppose I should enlighten them.
I'm sure thousands of N. American fans will flock to Ansan. :gomer:
autocross speeds. :p
They're claiming 195 mph down into the hairpin. Besides if they go too fast past my seat, my disposable camera won't work.
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