Boooo Boooo

[Hard Driver]

:thumdown: Lame

[Paintergeek]

This is obviously a HUGE topic, and I dont want to get too into it. But I will say this:

Is it B.S........Yes. But if someone had gone out to race on KNOWINGLY bad tires, and died.........Everyone would have said 'they shouldnt have raced'. Period. Its easy to say its BS right now, But we dont know what might have happened with 16 cars entering a corner on ticking time bomb tires.

[Hard Driver]

It is lame that Michelin can't make a tire THIS year that they could make last year.

It is lame that the F1 circus is so back stabbing that they can't put a chicane in and at least put on a race for their fans. The FIA would not sanction the race. The "F" must stand for Ferrari. *I am sure they were the ones who made the call on the chicane. They are a bunch of poor sportsman.

[NismoZ]

Agree entirely...but "Michelin, in the world's biggest market, dropped the ball." Note that it was a team manager decision, however, not driver. I wonder how much the new track surface had to do with this? What a confluence of bad judgement, luck, decisions...laughable, but not funny.

[Brickman]

This is obviously a HUGE topic, and I dont want to get too into it. But I will say this:

Is it B.S........Yes. But if someone had gone out to race on KNOWINGLY bad tires, and died.........Everyone would have said 'they shouldnt have raced'. Period. Its easy to say its BS right now, But we dont know what might have happened with 16 cars entering a corner on ticking time bomb tires.

But I thought they flew in new tires, just weren't allowed to use them?

[Rogue Leader]

But I thought they flew in new tires, just weren't allowed to use them?

It almost seemed like the teams didnt want to take the penalty (start behind Ferrari) and Michelin couldnt guarantee that these tires were any better.

[fourrunner]

I had read the other day that the High banked Turn 13 was rough and had to be ground using a "Diamond Ground " method which causes grip on the track, BUT is what is tearing the tires apart at high speed ... It looks like the Bridgestones are coming apart now too !

Anybody know about this?

[fourrunner]

Looks like Derick Daly kinda answered that question ! or at least presented the possibility

[dando]

I had read the other day that the High banked Turn 13 was rough and had to be ground using a "Diamond Ground " method which causes grip on the track, BUT is what is tearing the tires apart at high speed ... It looks like the Bridgestones are coming apart now too !

Anybody know about this?
The entire track was diamond ground/grinded. It was resurfaced, they had issues w/grip and bumps, ground the bumps in the corners, still couldn't make it work, and finally ground the entire track.

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

It is lame that Michelin can't make a tire THIS year that they could make last year.

It is lame that the F1 circus is so back stabbing that they can't put a chicane in and at least put on a race for their fans. The FIA would not sanction the race. The "F" must stand for Ferrari. *I am sure they were the ones who made the call on the chicane. They are a bunch of poor sportsman.Nope. Not Ferrari's fault. Max is one who said no points for the race if a chicane is put in. That's why Ferrari objected to the Chicane. Why should the Bridgestone runners be penalized for Michelin's incompetence.

[Ankf00]

the track changes have to be the cause of this... Michelin isn't Goodyear, they know what they're doing, or have known in the past at least... and if they can't switch out the tires on blatant safety reasons, and they race and fail, they're blamed. do you really believe Michelin went to town with a tire they didn't think would be reliable?

[Insomniac]

But I thought they flew in new tires, just weren't allowed to use them?

Michelin said they were able to repeat the issue on the original tires and said the new tirs flown in would have the same problem. The only way they would let their teams race is if the chicane was put in at turn 13.

[Insomniac]

The entire track was diamond ground/grinded. It was resurfaced, they had issues w/grip and bumps, ground the bumps in the corners, still couldn't make it work, and finally ground the entire track.

-Kevin

To be clear, only the oval was diamond grinded. What I do not know is if the road course was also repaved when the oval was.

[Insomniac]

Nope. Not Ferrari's fault. Max is one who said no points for the race if a chicane is put in. That's why Ferrari objected to the Chicane. Why should the Bridgestone runners be penalized for Michelin's incompetence.

They said they heard Ferrari did agree to the chicane. I think Coulthard said the smartest thing. They could've compromised by adding the chicane so everyone would run, but find some way to give the Bridgestone teams the points (exclude all Michelin teams). I wonder though, would they race if they knew they wouldn't get points? Would Ferrari let them considering they could be taken out?

[Insomniac]

the track changes have to be the cause of this... Michelin isn't Goodyear, they know what they're doing, or have known in the past at least... and if they can't switch out the tires on blatant safety reasons, and they race and fail, they're blamed. do you really believe Michelin went to town with a tire they didn't think would be reliable?

I don't think there is any question Michelin thought they had a good tire coming into Indy. I think the rules changes dramatically changed the tires and maybe exposed why the Michelins have been superior to the Bridgestones all year. Unfortunately, the banking exposed a large shortcoming.

[dando]

To be clear, only the oval was diamond grinded. What I do not know is if the road course was also repaved when the oval was.
Based on how it looked, I'd say it was not. The oval portion of the course looked dramatically different than the road course.

-Kevin

[cart7]

I've been up at Dad's today, he doesn't have Speed.

I just watched the race on tape. :shakehead

I can't believe this. I can't believe cooler, smarter heads couldn't come up with a solution to this. F1 is completely screwed up. I feel sorry for so many of those fans at Indy that came in from other countries to watch this farce. I feel for anyone that shelled out $$ for this 6 car race.

Unbelievable. :shakehead

[JohnnyQ]

What a shame. The funniest part of the race was the end. Shumi's crew asking him to find pick-up rubber from six cars to add weight? He should've picked up some of those beer cans.
I just watched a post race interview with Tiago and they're still booing him.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

One of the dark days of F1 racing.

[Dr. Corkski]

All the Michelin teams had to do was slow down on their own at T13. There was no reason why the Bridgestone teams should have been penalized with slowing down along with the Michelin teams just because the Michelin teams lacked the self-control to slow down or guts to be embarrassed.

[Ankf00]

no reason for Mosley not to perform his duties as chief administrator to find an equitable solution that involves RACING, not fanboy politicking.

[Dr. Corkski]

This didn't have to go to the officials. Michelin want their cars slowed down at T13 with that retarded chicane idea, all they had to do was ask their teams to slow down on their own by slowing down and moving out of the way. It was Michelin and ONLY Michelin that took F1 down today. :thumdown:

[Ankf00]

This didn't have to go to the officials. Michelin want their cars slowed down at T13 with that retarded chicane idea, all they had to do was ask their teams to slow down on their own by slowing down and moving out of the way. It was Michelin and ONLY Michelin that took F1 down today. :thumdown:

typical canned talking points fanboy response. administrators are paid for a reason, that reason is to create and see through the execution of workable solutions. enjoy whipping your strawman.

[Dr. Corkski]

Then provide a reason as to why Michelin couldn't ask their teams to just slow down for T13. The turn's wide enough to fit more than one car. :gomer:

[Ankf00]

have you ever seen a race? seen a definition of "race"? does that provide a "race" for the paying fans?

Farce != Race

again, chief administrators are paid for a reason. Mosley didnt' even pretend to fulfill his duties.

but don't let me interrupt the strawman routine :gomer:

[Dr. Corkski]

have you ever seen a race? seen a definition of "race"? does that provide a "race" for the paying fans?

Farce != Race

again, chief administrators are paid for a reason. Mosley didnt' even pretend to fulfill his duties.

but don't let me interrupt the strawman routine :gomer:It's not that hard of a question. :gomer:

[RacinM3]

While the problem was Michelin's, the underlying issue here (aside from the political ramifications of the GPWC) is the FIA's complete paralysis and inflexibility in times of desperation. The body has never once stood for what matters - the paying spectator. It's been shown that Bernie and Max could care less about the attendees, and that they only ever cared about the TV audience. So let's get that straight right now.

IF the FIA had some flexibility, they'd realize such desperate times call for desperate measures. They should have installed the chicane, added 3 laps of fuel to each car, run a very short practice, and run the race. Ferrari, Minardi, and Jordan should have been awarded 18 points each (equal to a 1st and 2nd finish for each team) and Michelin-shod cars should have been able to race for 1/2 points.

But, they didn't. And everyone's running around crying "what about the fans???", when if you've followed F1 for any period of time, you'd know the fans became meaningless long ago.

I will say this. Today's race was the only F1 race this year where I didn't fast forward TiVo for even ONE lap. I find the whole episode AMAZINGLY interesting, and was happy it happened at the USGP, where SPEED had better access than ever to participant interviews.

It's not the first time it's happened in F1, and it won't be the last.

[FRANKY]

While the problem was Michelin's, the underlying issue here (aside from the political ramifications of the GPWC) is the FIA's complete paralysis and inflexibility in times of desperation. The body has never once stood for what matters - the paying spectator. It's been shown that Bernie and Max could care less about the attendees, and that they only ever cared about the TV audience. So let's get that straight right now.

IF the FIA had some flexibility, they'd realize such desperate times call for desperate measures. They should have installed the chicane, added 3 laps of fuel to each car, run a very short practice, and run the race. Ferrari, Minardi, and Jordan should have been awarded 18 points each (equal to a 1st and 2nd finish for each team) and Michelin-shod cars should have been able to race for 1/2 points.

But, they didn't. And everyone's running around crying "what about the fans???", when if you've followed F1 for any period of time, you'd know the fans became meaningless long ago.

I will say this. Today's race was the only F1 race this year where I didn't fast forward TiVo for even ONE lap. I find the whole episode AMAZINGLY interesting, and was happy it happened at the USGP, where SPEED had better access than ever to participant interviews.

It's not the first time it's happened in F1, and it won't be the last.


:thumbup:

This may lead to the end of Bernie, they bucked him off the saddle big time.

[Insomniac]

The body has never once stood for what matters - the paying spectator.

I think from their perspective, the competitors matter first.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I completely agree with Ferrari for not backing down, it is their job to win and when you are trying to play catch-up in the points fight, there was no better opportunity.