USGP vs CART Texas

[Andrew Longman]

CART could easily be blamed for not doing more testing prior to the Texas weekend to discover the vertigo problems, but we all supported their decision to cancel the race in the interest of safety. Nevertheless, CART took a serious ding. Fans wanted them to shut up and race.

Now USGP and concerns for driver safety. Will fans react differently? Which episode will hurt which series more?

Should Max have done something as dramatic as postpone the race until Michelin could produce a safe tire? (and Bridgestone use the time to make an even better tire)

[greenie]

Good thread. My view is that this F1/IMS debacle is way worse.

[TrueBrit]

1) No real fan was upset that the Texas race was cancelled for safety reasons.

2)This will not hurt F-1 anywhere but in the U.S.

3) The most dramatic thing Max can do is resign immediately after issuing a press release stating that he has just realized that he is a complete and total prat, and as an engineer he makes a damned fine lawyer.

[devilmaster]

Personally, I think today was worse.

The failure at Texas was not due to any one part made by a manufacturer. I would suspect Michelin is facing major blowback to its commercial line of tyres, regardless of whether or not they are good tyres.

F1 is still considered the top rung of the racing world. OW could possibly all suffer from their mistake.

IMO, we have seen the change of the future of motorsports. And it doesn't look good.

[dando]

@ least C^RT addressed the issue directly rather than trying to bully the drivers into racing. Both sides could walk away with their head help high that they did the thing in the name of safety. Quite frankly, after two driverr deaths in 1999, they had no choice in the matter.

Max and the FIA simply tried thug diplomacy, and their lap dog team Ferrari scuttled the only chance @ a compromise. No one comes away smelling like a rose after this. This all stinks to high heaven!

-Kevin

[NismoZ]

I agree with the "nobody smelling like a rose" statement, but to blame Ferrari for what ultimately was a Michelin made problem goes too far, I think. Perhaps there WOULD have been a semblance of a race if they had agreed, but they had no REASON to. For TG? The fans? Bernie, Max, Michelin? I don't think so. Bridgestone got it right, Michelin didn't...do not put the end responsibility on ONE team. Amid ALL this I am most thankful for one thing more than any other...nobody got hurt or killed...now THAT would have been the biggest disaster! (and for that maybe we can THANK Michelin for making a very brave decision, by BUSINESS standards!)

[dando]

I agree with the "nobody smelling like a rose" statement, but to blame Ferrari for what ultimately was a Michelin made problem goes too far, I think. Perhaps there WOULD have been a semblance of a race if they had agreed, but they had no REASON to. For TG? The fans? Bernie, Max, Michelin? I don't think so. Bridgestone got it right, Michelin didn't...do not put the end responsibility on ONE team. Amid ALL this I am most thankful for one thing more than any other...nobody got hurt or killed...now THAT would have been the biggest disaster! (and for that maybe we can THANK Michelin for making a very brave decision, by BUSINESS standards!)
I'm NOT blaming Ferrari. M clearly screwed the pooch. However, the perception is and will be that Ferrari was the lone impediment to the only viable solution according to 9/10 teams (assuming the tyres M used in Barcelona were unsatisfactory as well). Clearly safety for the drivers, crews, track workers, and fan is the highest priority.

Oh, and where was BE in all of this to address the media and fans @ the track? Hiding behind Whiting's memos and leaving the 'race' early? :shakehead
@ least the C^RT guys had the balls to face the media.

-Kevin

[NismoZ]

And I await the result of TB's #2 prediction, because I think he's fairly correct. I want to see "The European Spin" on all this because it'll probably be painted as an American, or at least an MIS/TG created problem. Did you hear the French broadcast was pulled out of deference to all the Michelin bashing? Reminds me of when the Schmeling-Louis fight suddenly went off the air in Germany when Max was having his face and kidneys rearranged. Politics indeed! (and NO I wasn't around then.) All I can think of for 'ol TG though is, "Danica GOOD, :mad: , USGP BAD! :p...but for openwheel race fans I don't think it helps ANYthing!

[NismoZ]

agreed and understood, dando (and THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING! :D) , plus I can just see Bernie's "spider hole." I think it'll be a little more lavishly appointed than Saddam's. Bet he makes no statement 'til he's safe inside. Did you hear the Michelin team guys were going to skip the after-race shindigs in downtown Indy?...for SAFETY reasons! How appropriate! :D ...and sad at the same time. (anyone else think of that poor "own goal" Columbian futballer? :shakehead )

[eiregosod]

And I await the result of TB's #2 prediction, because I think he's fairly correct. I want to see "The European Spin" on all this because it'll probably be painted as an American, or at least an MIS/TG created problem.

as it stands, the British GP is not sold out yet. so we await the race mid July. and the next race is in France ;)

There arent many tracks with quater mile bends banked at 9 degrees , so the tyre problem shouldnt be a factor (unless the 180R at suzuka chews up the tyres)

What happened today is just a glimmer of the patheticness of "f1" managment and how all its constituents do business. if they dont figure something out then there'll be a lot of people going to get interested in other non-F1 hobbies

[RedLine]

Today's debacle is arguably the worst FUBAR in modern F1 history and CART's TMS brainfrt doesn't even compare.

You watch, there will be a tsunami effect rather than a ripple effect.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

The fallout here will be worse than if an atom bomb went off.

[FRANKY]

I thought about this earlier, I don't think they even considered putting a chicane in at Texas.

I don't think we should even bring Texas in with what happened today. Two different animals. Not worth the energy to even discuss it.

[Dr. Corkski]

CART at Texas affect all the competitors.

Michelin at Indy amounted to them unwilling to embarrass themselves in the race (in which not taking the turn in question flatout would have been a sufficient solution) and decided to take down the whole sport because of that.

CART did it to prevent injuries, Michelin did it to make everybody look as bad as they do. :thumdown:

[dando]

I thought about this earlier, I don't think they even considered putting a chicane in at Texas.

I don't think we should even bring Texas in with what happened today. Two different animals. Not worth the energy to even discuss it.
:confused: Ank? Is dat you? :gomer:

-Kevin

[theunions]

I thought about this earlier, I don't think they even considered putting a chicane in at Texas.

IIRC, the proposal was to use the infield road course configuration.

[FRANKY]

IIRC, the proposal was to use the infield road course configuration.

I didn't recall that. I remembered this though.

http://indymotorspeedway.com/cartcow.jpg

Just a God awful mess.

I recall people were compensated for their tickets, but that was nothing when compared to hotel rooms, rental cars, and airplane flights.

[nrc]

I don't recall running the road course at Texas was an option. The contract was for an oval race. Even if TMS had agreed there was no way they could change the cars over in time for the race Sunday with none of the pieces on hand.

As I recall several solutions were proposed in Texas but the engine manufacturers would not agree for fear that they would be at a disadvantage. The rivalry between Toyota and Honda was bitter and relations with CART had already started to sour. It was another case where manufacturers placed their own political agenda ahead of the interests of the safety and the fans.

What makes it even more absurd is that in this case not even the organizers cared about their obligation to safety or the fans.