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Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 10:03 AM
Yes Michelin screwed up. But the cause of the problem and how it is handled are two different things. There was one person with enough clout to stop the mad and foolish response to the debacle yesterday and he did nothing. Indeed he made it worse.

If Michael Schumacher had stood up and said, "No, this race must go on with all teams and it must be made safe. Put in a chicane or reschedule it or something, but I will only compete against the full field", no one could have denied him.

Instead Ferrari was the only team to vote against the chicane, no doubt wanting to give no quarters to the competition, especially when they deserved none.

But that win at all costs mentality, shown countless times including in yesterday's race when he nearly took out his teammate, makes that impossible for Michael. It was impossible for him to put the sport and the fans above himself.

Now I don't really blame Michael, guardianship of the sport belongs to Max, BErnie and the FIA, but he missed a big opportunity to do something only he could do. Does he not have enough money, points and championships? Keeping the sport from destroying itself could have been perhaps his greatest legacy. And it would have raised his stature among American fans.

Cam
06-20-05, 10:06 AM
:thumbup:

Spicoli
06-20-05, 10:11 AM
I thought we all agreed that drivers are stupid.

FanofMario
06-20-05, 10:12 AM
Agreed. MS had an opportunity to be a real leader with his peers and lost it. With that said, was anybody surprised that he didn't? :rolleyes:

TedN
06-20-05, 10:13 AM
I was just listening to a local (Toronto) radio all-sports station. They had opened the phone lines to listeners to talk about anything. Almost immediately, a guy phones in to talk about the USGP.

Turns out his name is Keith and he works for Midland F1 (on the business side). Here is a summary of his comments:

- he thinks the truth about what really happened this weekend was a standoff between Bernie and the GPWC. Before the race, Bernie told all the teams to "go out and race". The GPWC teams stood up to Bernie.
- he can't imagine how long it will take to repair this fiasco. He cannot see F1 going back to Indy. Potential sites for a second USGP (Las Vegas or Long Beach), might now move to the forefront.

Ted

Cam
06-20-05, 10:16 AM
Agreed. MS had an opportunity to be a real leader with his peers and lost it. With that said, was anybody surprised that he didn't? :rolleyes:

Absolutely not! He showed his complete arrogance by running his team mate off the track in a meaningless race. Claas act my arse! :rolleyes:

TrueBrit
06-20-05, 10:17 AM
In politics there is always an alterior motive. Even if Schumacher had taken that stand he would have been told by Ferrari to get his highly-paid posterior into the red car post-haste.

This was between the FIA, and the manufacturers NOT based in Italy.

I would still like to know why the FIA threatened to withdraw it's sanctioning of the event if a temporary chicane was installed. Seems to me they've done that in the past (where was it Portugal, Spain? It was in the 90's methinks..) for safety reasons, so I would really like to get an explanation as to why the FIA had to be such blood-minded tossers about the whole deal. Remember at it's essence this is a safety issue, and the governing body failed miserably in it's job to ensure the safety of it's participants, and THAT is inexcusable...

I wonder what the reaction would have been if it were the Bridgestone tyres that had failed and Ferrari was threatening to pull out....just how quickly would that temporary chicane have been installed I wonder?

Methanolandbrats
06-20-05, 10:30 AM
There was just a small earthquake in the midwest.......that was Schumi's fault too.

Any of you Ferrari Haters remember the first few races of the year when the Bridgestones were slow as hell, finally disintegrated and Ferrari WITHDREW their car? Did they thrash around and cry :cry: demanding the Michelin cars slow down? No they did'nt and I don't remember any kinder, gentler posts suggesting the FIA help Ferrai/Bridgestone.

Spicoli
06-20-05, 10:33 AM
In politics there is always an alterior motive. Even if Schumacher had taken that stand he would have been told by Ferrari to get his highly-paid posterior into the red car post-haste.

This was between the FIA, and the manufacturers NOT based in Italy.

I would still like to know why the FIA threatened to withdraw it's sanctioning of the event if a temporary chicane was installed. Seems to me they've done that in the past (where was it Portugal, Spain? It was in the 90's methinks..) for safety reasons, so I would really like to get an explanation as to why the FIA had to be such blood-minded tossers about the whole deal. Remember at it's essence this is a safety issue, and the governing body failed miserably in it's job to ensure the safety of it's participants, and THAT is inexcusable...

I wonder what the reaction would have been if it were the Bridgestone tyres that had failed and Ferrari was threatening to pull out....just how quickly would that temporary chicane have been installed I wonder?


I heard another sort of rumor as well:

There was the offer to eithewr A-install the temporary chicane or B-spray the course with some sort of curing agent? Anyone hear this as well?

Also I agree that the FIA is unltimately responsible for the outcome. Stuff breaks, stuff ghoes wrong. When you are leading an organization you determine the problem, look at possible solutions, and try to fix it.

Bush.

TrueBrit
06-20-05, 10:44 AM
No they did'nt and I don't remember any kinder, gentler posts suggesting the FIA help Ferrai/Bridgestone.

What, you mean anymore than they have in the past....? ;)

Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 10:54 AM
There was just a small earthquake in the midwest.......that was Schumi's fault too.

Any of you Ferrari Haters remember the first few races of the year when the Bridgestones were slow as hell, finally disintegrated and Ferrari WITHDREW their car? Did they thrash around and cry :cry: demanding the Michelin cars slow down? No they did'nt and I don't remember any kinder, gentler posts suggesting the FIA help Ferrai/Bridgestone.

When Ferrari pulled out, it did not compromise the race. I doubt fans were booing the result

There is fair and then there is the right thing to do. Any solution that causes your customers to boo the result is not a good one.

I'm not a Ferrari hater, at least I haven't been, but the one guy who could stand up to them all, including Ferrari, did nothing but wash his hands and go to work. He had to know how damaging this was, but instead went out and tried his best to humiliate his teammate.

That competitive drive is why we watch Michael and all of racing. It's what makes these guys/gals great. Yesterday, that drive was misplaced.

indyfan31
06-20-05, 10:57 AM
Agreed. MS had an opportunity to be a real leader with his peers and lost it. With that said, was anybody surprised that he didn't? :rolleyes:
He tried to be a leader a few years ago. Remember when a marshall was killed? He wanted all teams to take the first few turns under yellow until the field settled. No one else agreed.

FanofMario
06-20-05, 11:24 AM
I'm not a Ferrari hater, at least I haven't been, but the one guy who could stand up to them all, including Ferrari, did nothing but wash his hands and go to work. He had to know how damaging this was, but instead went out and tried his best to humiliate his teammate.

Good point.


He tried to be a leader a few years ago. Remember when a marshall was killed? He wanted all teams to take the first few turns under yellow until the field settled. No one else agreed.

I had forgot about that, but it seems to me that as many sponsors, fans and potential sponsors/fans that were at stake in this GP, MS could have been a bit more of a leader of his peers in this. What would have happened if the red cars had refused to start? It seems to me that some sort of compromise would have been reached and a race would have gone on. I doubt that Sir Jackie would have raced under such a cloud. :shakehead

Mike Kellner
06-20-05, 11:31 AM
The people with the power to make sure a real race happened were the people in charge, Bernie & Max. They could have said the show must go on, we are taking control here, put up a chicane made of old tires lashed together, and then allowed a morning practice and a tire change for everyone. But, everyone was so worried about inside baseball issues, and turf wars, that they forgot why they were in Indiana in the first place.

Pure sport is an Olympics fairy tale. The pure sport crowd loved yesterday's "race". It gave them something to talk about for months. The other 99%, who do not waste hours each day on internet racing fora thought this sucked big time.

mk

Jag_Warrior
06-20-05, 11:47 AM
I doubt that Sir Jackie would have raced under such a cloud. :shakehead

While Shumacher might be the greatest racer of this era, he does not compare, in other ways, to several of those of previous generations - Jackie Stewart being first and foremost on the list.

TrueBrit
06-20-05, 11:50 AM
While Shumacher might be the greatest racer of this era, he does not compare, in other ways, to several of those of previous generations - Jackie Stewart being first and foremost on the list.

Well yeah, there's that whole dirty, chopping, cheating bastard thing to deal with for starters.... ;) :D

NismoZ
06-20-05, 11:58 AM
Yeah, the guy who demanded armco.

Insomniac
06-20-05, 01:14 PM
I heard another sort of rumor as well:

There was the offer to eithewr A-install the temporary chicane or B-spray the course with some sort of curing agent? Anyone hear this as well?

Also I agree that the FIA is unltimately responsible for the outcome. Stuff breaks, stuff ghoes wrong. When you are leading an organization you determine the problem, look at possible solutions, and try to fix it.

Bush.

You mean like Michelin wanted to do anything but provide working tires?

Insomniac
06-20-05, 01:18 PM
You blame MS? What about David Coulthard? He wanted to race and still parked it.

chop456
06-20-05, 01:19 PM
Goodyear had a test. Firestone had a test. Did IMS notify them of the resurfacing and need for a test? If so, was Michelin notified?

Spicoli
06-20-05, 01:29 PM
You mean like Michelin wanted to do anything but provide working tires?

All kinds of crap was flying around yesterday. There was a small assembly of angry fans back by the BY Resort deck, and I heard all sorts of crazy stuff.

Angry race fans + booze = danger.

Methanolandbrats
06-20-05, 01:32 PM
Goodyear had a test. Firestone had a test. Did IMS notify them of the resurfacing and need for a test? If so, was Michelin notified?
According to Peter Windsor, the Michelin Teams failed to show for the test. Only two test drivers took part in the test.

TrueBrit
06-20-05, 01:33 PM
According to Peter Windsor, the Michelin Teams failed to show for the test. Only two test drivers took part in the test.


On the oval or the road course? If it was just the oval it wouldn't have been a very useful test.....

Racing Truth
06-20-05, 01:43 PM
On the oval or the road course? If it was just the oval it wouldn't have been a very useful test.....

Michelin would have had no reason to test the oval.

Spicoli
06-20-05, 01:45 PM
Michelin would have had no reason to test the oval.

:gomer:

cmon - you're smarter than that. ;)

Turn7
06-20-05, 02:16 PM
Shumies fault.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Damn what a stretch. That is insane.

chop456
06-20-05, 03:00 PM
According to Peter Windsor, the Michelin Teams failed to show for the test. Only two test drivers took part in the test.

The tire test for Indy took place in Barcelona, not on the resurfaced IMS.

I'd like to know if Goodyear and Firestone/BRIDGESTONE were alerted/invited to test the new surface, but not Michelin.

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 03:04 PM
The tire test for Indy took place in Barcelona, not on the resurfaced IMS.

I'd like to know if Goodyear and Firestone/BRIDGESTONE were alerted/invited to test the new surface, but not Michelin.I bet it was Schumi that prevent Michelin from testing at Indy too. He must have been responsible for the Holocoust too. :gomer:

chop456
06-20-05, 03:05 PM
I bet it was Schumi that prevent Michelin from testing at Indy too. He must have been responsible for the Holocoust too. :gomer:

I'm not prepared to rule anything out. :D

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 03:06 PM
I'm not prepared to rule anything out. :DSomeone of his status should have clearly stood up to Hitler and told him that was wrong. :gomer:

Methanolandbrats
06-20-05, 03:25 PM
Someone of his status should have clearly stood up to Hitler and told him that was wrong. :gomer: Yes, but he chose to be born after the war instead of before it. He took the easy road. The entire Second World War is Schumi's fault. Come to think of it, he missed several chances to heal the Middle East during visits to Bahrain.

TrueBrit
06-20-05, 03:27 PM
To quote Basil Fawlty " Whatever you do, don't mention the war!"

Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 03:57 PM
Shumies fault.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Damn what a stretch. That is insane.

Did Schumie bring the lousy Michelin tires? Of course not.

Did Schumie tell the Michelin teams to sit? No

Did Schumie write the ridulous tire rules? Did he threaten to unsanction the race if they put a chicane in? No and No.

Was it even his job to correct this situation? Nope

But he was the one guy there (other than those whose job it actually was) who could have stopped yesterday's madness. If you see a child about to step in front of a truck are you obligated to push it aside at your own peril? No. But we have great respect for those that do.

Did I really expect him to do anything? No.

Someone above said racing is competition first and entertaining second. I disagree. It is entertaining because it is competitive, and no one would race (whether they wanted to or not) without fans that find it entertaining paying the bills.

If you found yesterday's distasteful display of power, money and arrogance entertaining so be it, but mostly it just pissed people off. In any business you just don't ever do that.

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 04:20 PM
Did Schumie bring the lousy Michelin tires? Of course not.

Did Schumie tell the Michelin teams to sit? No

Did Schumie write the ridulous tire rules? Did he threaten to unsanction the race if they put a chicane in? No and No.

Was it even his job to correct this situation? Nope

But he was the one guy there (other than those whose job it actually was) who could have stopped yesterday's madness. If you see a child about to step in front of a truck are you obligated to push it aside at your own peril? No. But we have great respect for those that do.

Did I really expect him to do anything? No.

Someone above said racing is competition first and entertaining second. I disagree. It is entertaining because it is competitive, and no one would race (whether they wanted to or not) without fans that find it entertaining paying the bills.

If you found yesterday's distasteful display of power, money and arrogance entertaining so be it, but mostly it just pissed people off. In any business you just don't ever do that.You still don't get it.

If you thought Schumacher could have done anything to help the Michelins, you might just be idiotic enough to believe that he could have prevented the Holocoust. How was he supposed to know that the Michelin teams were going to line up, do a formation lap, and pull in? He was there to race, and he did so. There was no reason for him to support penalizing his own team to help his competitors when those competitors enjoyed watching him struggle with the same problem.

You can't just go around bitching at F1 for sacrificing the sport for business reasons and then turn around to complain about F1 not making any business sense when they took a stand for sporting reasons.

Ed_Severson
06-20-05, 04:34 PM
It's Schumacher's job to race whatever car Ferrari puts together for him, and that about ends it.

He isn't responsible for ensuring the competitiveness of anybody but himself.

Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 07:37 PM
It's Schumacher's job to race whatever car Ferrari puts together for him, and that about ends it.

He isn't responsible for ensuring the competitiveness of anybody but himself.

No disagreement

I know I'm preaching pure fantasy in the cut throat world of F1. It was/is Max and Bernie's job to blossom the sport. They've gotten filthy rich doing so. After yesterday they will get to experience the down side of that risk.

F1 imploded yesterday. It would just have been nice if someone, like a negotiator keeping a criminal from offing a hostage, had stepped up and pointed out to these morons the consequences they were going to put into motion. What if Schumie said on Saturday, or even Sunday morning, "Do what you want, but this race must have a full field and I will not get in a car unless you work this out." It could have been private or not, but it would have carried great weight.

This was so much more than about one race or even fair allocation of points within a championship season. Whatever damage a "re-interpretation of the rules" would have had on the integrety of the USGP it will pale in comparison to the litigation, hearings and loss of trust and fan interest that will dominate the sport for months and years to come.

I thought watching Buddy Lazier take the checkers at Indy was bad. Watching six cars take the green yesterday was far worse.

(BTW I think references to a modern day German preventing the Holocost is inappropriate and frankly offensive. F1 has little to do with the N@zi movement. No one is being exterminated. But then too, if enough Germans had stood up and said "NO" to the path the N@zis stepped on the 20th century and the lives of even current Germans would likely be vastly better)

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 07:41 PM
No disagreement.Then you admit this thread is completely pointless.

Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 07:53 PM
Then you admit this thread is completely pointless.

Not unless the demise of the top level of motorsport is unimportant to you.

Everyone did exactly what was in their self-interest. They axcted perfectly rational and logically given how the situation was defined for them.

The result completely sucked and it hugely damaged the sport and dare I say all but NASCAR style racing in NA.

What was needed was someone to act against their own immediate self interest. I guess I find that all too rare today.

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 08:03 PM
Not unless the demise of the top level of motorsport is unimportant to you.

Everyone did exactly what was in their self-interest. They axcted perfectly rational and logically given how the situation was defined for them.

The result completely sucked and it hugely damaged the sport and dare I say all but NASCAR style racing in NA.

What was needed was someone to act against their own immediate self interest. I guess I find that all to rare today.Michael Schumacher, as an employee of Ferrari, his duty was to look out for the best interests of his employer, not his employer's competitors. Blaming him or anyone other than Michelin's cowardice is pathetic.

Dr. Corkski
06-20-05, 08:05 PM
(BTW I think references to a modern day German preventing the Holocost is inappropriate and frankly offensive. F1 has little to do with the N@zi movement. No one is being exterminated. But then too, if enough Germans had stood up and said "NO" to the path the N@zis stepped on the 20th century and the lives of even current Germans would likely be vastly better)You seemed to miss the idea that the joke was about people blaming Schumacher and Ferrari for things that were beyond their control.

Andrew Longman
06-20-05, 08:20 PM
You seemed to miss the idea that the joke was about people blaming Schumacher and Ferrari for things that were beyond their control.

Got it. No, I am not missing that point. Despite my thread title (and I think this is supported by my initial post) I don't "blame" Ferrari or Schumacher for the situation created by Michelin and made worse by Max, BE, or F1.

I just know that if it were me (and it very much wasn't) standing in MS driving shoes, I wish I would have the pride in my profession and grace in my being to step up and do the one thing only I, given my position and standing, could have done.

I'm looking for a hero here. I have no justification to be angry if I don't get one, but it leaves me with a tragedy. :(

Jag_Warrior
06-20-05, 08:30 PM
Got it. No, I am not missing that point. Despite my thread title (and I think this is supported by my initial post) I don't "blame" Ferrari or Schumacher for the situation created by Michelin and made worse by Max, BE, or F1.

I just know that if it were me (and it very much wasn't) standing in MS driving shoes, I wish I would have the pride in my profession and grace in my being to step up and do the one thing only I, given my position and standing, could have done.

I'm looking for a hero here. I have no justification to be angry if I don't get one, but it leaves me with a tragedy. :(

^ What Andrew said ^ :thumbup:

gjc2
06-20-05, 08:40 PM
The entire problem with this years USGP was caused by the FIA's regulations. The tire rule was poorly thought out and didn't allow for any unforeseen issues. I believe that with very few exception, a race series should only have one tire supplier. That supplier can then produce a reliable and safe tire everyone can race on. The current tire rules are ridiculous. Although the whole situation could have been handled better, it all was caused by the FIA's short sightedness.

George

Ed_Severson
06-20-05, 08:55 PM
I believe that with very few exception, a race series should only have one tire supplier.

Absolutely.

Mario Andretti wrote a very good editorial about this very issue in one of the volumes of the short-lived Champ Car Magazine, after Goodyear announced they were leaving CART and Firestone was making public statements about wanting some competition.

I don't have the mag handy, but I might dig it out tonight and post Mario's column. He made some very good points.

cameraman
06-20-05, 09:04 PM
I believe that with very few exception, a race series should only have one tire supplier.

If that supplier had been Michelin zero cars would have run. Michelin was caught out by the combination of the formulation changes forced by the single tire rule and the high grip / highly abrasive track surface from the botched repaving job.

Ed_Severson
06-20-05, 09:08 PM
If that supplier had been Michelin zero cars would have run.

Not necessarily. There have been a few reports that Michelin's problem was simply that they chose to be too aggressive in the compounds they brought. Had they been the only supplier, that certainly would not have been necessary.

Dr. Corkski
06-21-05, 01:31 AM
If that supplier had been Michelin zero cars would have run. Michelin was caught out by the combination of the formulation changes forced by the single tire rule and the high grip / highly abrasive track surface from the botched repaving job.In that case, there would have been a good reason to put in a chicane since all cars would have been affected by it.

TedN
06-21-05, 10:28 AM
I wonder if the tire makers now think auto racing – especially in competition with other makes – has become unattractive. Does a tire maker have more to lose than they have to gain by competing with another maker in race series. Think about the tire wars in CART or in NASCAR -- we noticed the tire make that had problems more than the one that had success. By contrast, how many people remember the Goodyear tire fiasco at Pocono just over a week ago (technically, Goodyear’s problem seemed to be very similar to Michelin’s)?

Ted

trauma1
06-21-05, 10:34 AM
to me if your going to allow pit stops allow tire changes, or get rid of pit stops all together :shakehead

Insomniac
06-21-05, 04:01 PM
All kinds of crap was flying around yesterday. There was a small assembly of angry fans back by the BY Resort deck, and I heard all sorts of crazy stuff.

Angry race fans + booze = danger.

It didn't look like the sfaest place to be on TV, i'm sure it was much worse in person.

RichK
06-21-05, 04:16 PM
Got it. No, I am not missing that point. Despite my thread title (and I think this is supported by my initial post) I don't "blame" Ferrari or Schumacher for the situation created by Michelin and made worse by Max, BE, or F1.

I just know that if it were me (and it very much wasn't) standing in MS driving shoes, I wish I would have the pride in my profession and grace in my being to step up and do the one thing only I, given my position and standing, could have done.

I'm looking for a hero here. I have no justification to be angry if I don't get one, but it leaves me with a tragedy. :(

Beautifully stated.

Insomniac
06-21-05, 04:17 PM
Got it. No, I am not missing that point. Despite my thread title (and I think this is supported by my initial post) I don't "blame" Ferrari or Schumacher for the situation created by Michelin and made worse by Max, BE, or F1.

I just know that if it were me (and it very much wasn't) standing in MS driving shoes, I wish I would have the pride in my profession and grace in my being to step up and do the one thing only I, given my position and standing, could have done.

I'm looking for a hero here. I have no justification to be angry if I don't get one, but it leaves me with a tragedy. :(

Perhaps I don't agree with you on what a hero is in this case.

You wanted MS to stand up in some type of act of solidarity, which would be heroic. But, i don't see the situation that way. If everyone ran Michelins and the FIA said you are racing6 no matter what, then 3 teams wnet out while 7 went out, I can see why you might expect someone of his stature in the sport to standup and speak out against the FIA.

However, you wanted him to stand up for the fans, so they don't see a 6 car "race". Putting aside the fact that he would've had to do that by getting out of his car before the start or parking his car once he saw what the other teams were doing (which eliminates the idea it could be an act of solidarity), the act would only be honorable. not heroic. On top of that, RB or JT would tell him to STFU and drive the car he is being paid $millions to drive. Yeah, they may have to suck it up if they don't want to fire him for insubordination, but he has a job to do. And it's not to protest on the behalf of Michelin. It's also, as much as people don't like it, to entertain the fans. It's to drive a car. That does beg the question, who has a responsibility to put on a good show (or at least one that they should get)? The FIA is supposed to enforce the rules (which I guess they did, and did provide alternatives that Michelin did not like). Is it FOM or IMS's responsibility?

Andrew Longman
06-21-05, 05:41 PM
Perhaps I don't agree with you on what a hero is in this case.

You wanted MS to stand up in some type of act of solidarity, which would be heroic. But, i don't see the situation that way. If everyone ran Michelins and the FIA said you are racing6 no matter what, then 3 teams wnet out while 7 went out, I can see why you might expect someone of his stature in the sport to standup and speak out against the FIA.

However, you wanted him to stand up for the fans, so they don't see a 6 car "race". Putting aside the fact that he would've had to do that by getting out of his car before the start or parking his car once he saw what the other teams were doing (which eliminates the idea it could be an act of solidarity), the act would only be honorable. not heroic. On top of that, RB or JT would tell him to STFU and drive the car he is being paid $millions to drive. Yeah, they may have to suck it up if they don't want to fire him for insubordination, but he has a job to do. And it's not to protest on the behalf of Michelin. It's also, as much as people don't like it, to entertain the fans. It's to drive a car. That does beg the question, who has a responsibility to put on a good show (or at least one that they should get)? The FIA is supposed to enforce the rules (which I guess they did, and did provide alternatives that Michelin did not like). Is it FOM or IMS's responsibility?

Who cares for the sport? The FIA, Max and Bernie. They screwed up and are screwing up. I didn't what MS to stand up so the fans didn't have to see a 6 car race. I wanted him to stand up to protect the sport from the reprecussions of running a six car race, at the USGP of all places.

And the time for him to do it was not on Sunday afternoon, it was Saturday when it became clear this was unravelling. That would have been the time to say that if you put me on the start line with less than the full field I will leave the car there. No joke. Figure something out. Make the threat in private so as to not show people up if necessary, but he could have done something.

Yes he had a job to do and it wasn't this. But what's the point? F1 just started down an inevitable path to implosion. In due time there will be no job or no job of equal meaning anyway. Might as well go down swinging or at least with your dignity

Methanolandbrats
06-21-05, 08:48 PM
F1 is legalized warfare. The budgets are huge. Did the Russians feel sorry for all the frozen Germans on the Eastern Front.........I don't think so. They kicked their asses. To suggest Schumi should have turned into Mother Theresa and pursued some mystical goal is crazy. His job is to work his ass off, prepare his team, go to the grid and drive as fast as he can. That's it. He was ready, he won, they all sucked..........as the saying goes, "that's racin'". A lot of people are getting way too worked up over this, have a few beers, relax and then enjoy the French GP.

TrueBrit
06-21-05, 11:21 PM
If Ferrari were in the lead of the championship I think Schumacher might have acted differently. As it was, his employers saw it as an opportunity to gain some ground, and as an employee he was contract bound to do what his employer told him to do.

It would have been very interesting, to say the least, if MS decided to park it as well, and I think that it would have REALLY turned the screws on the FIA at that point. It would also have garnered him a great deal of good will from fans around the globe, myself included, had he told the FIA he wasn't going to participate in a Bridgestone test session, at the expense of the fans that had paid good money to see a race.

But he didn't, and I bear him no ill-will because of that. He did what he was paid to do.

Andrew Longman
06-22-05, 09:04 AM
Truebrit and M&B

I bear him no ill will either. M&B you describe F1 and MS job perfectly.

Be he would not, indeed could not, do his job if no one watched.

But I'm afraid they started down a path Sunday that will lead them to irrevelance with the sporting public.

Insomniac
06-22-05, 09:46 AM
If Ferrari were in the lead of the championship I think Schumacher might have acted differently. As it was, his employers saw it as an opportunity to gain some ground, and as an employee he was contract bound to do what his employer told him to do.

It would have been very interesting, to say the least, if MS decided to park it as well, and I think that it would have REALLY turned the screws on the FIA at that point. It would also have garnered him a great deal of good will from fans around the globe, myself included, had he told the FIA he wasn't going to participate in a Bridgestone test session, at the expense of the fans that had paid good money to see a race.

But he didn't, and I bear him no ill-will because of that. He did what he was paid to do.

Well, it's now clear Jean Todt told his driver's he is making the decisions. I agree, if Ferarri was out in front like in 2003, he probably would've agreed. But if it was close, probably not.