Miller @ SpeedTV: Honda to ALMS LM2

[pchall]

SPEEDTV.com has learned that Honda Performance Development will enter the American LeMans Series next year in order to compete head-to-head with Porsche and Penske in the LMP2 category...

This scenario becomes extra interesting because Champ Car and ALMS are working on a deal to run half a dozen doubleheaders together in 2006 -- beginning with Long Beach. So, indirectly, Honda would be again associated with Champ Car.


I don't think it would take HPD very long to develop a restricted 3.4l NA V-8 and get Dome to build a chassis for it.

link (http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/17918/)

[pfc_m_drake]

Well, there was that rumor about the HPD boys dusting off the 2.65 Turbo V8 a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if they had something like this in mind:



Team Nasamax is entering the world’s first wholly renewably fuelled prototype racing car for the Le Mans 24 Hours race in June 2003.

Team Nasamax will demonstrate to the world that renewable fuels can compete in the high technology arena of international motorsport. These fuels, produced from crops, eliminate the release of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Later on in the article


The other development partner is Cosworth Racing, now owned by Ford, who are renowned for their Formula One engine development for teams such as Jaguar and Jordan as well as for the WRC Rally programme. Cosworth has developed a 2.65 Litre V8 turbo-charged engine specifically for this programme. This XDE engine will be used exclusively by Team Nasamax.

Link (http://www.imsaracing.net/imsa.cfm?h=/2003/news/header.htm&p=/2003/news/020203b.htm)

[chop456]

I couldn't care less about the 2.65

This is as good as an Earl withdrawal announcement and huge news for the ALMS.

Downside < 0 :gomer:

[RTKar]

Excellent news; United we stand. Outstanding cross promotional opportunities along with the possibility of bringing back natural terrain road courses.

[Napoleon]

:thumbup:

[cart7]

Wait, I thought it was fHonda around here?


:p

[devilmaster]

Well, if barnhart can change his mind, why can't we? ;) :p

[pfc_m_drake]

Wait, I thought it was fHonda around here?


:p
Certainly not to all of us.

[jonovision_man]

What a great shot in the arm that would be for ALMS! Hope Robin's right about this one... especially about the ALMS-CCWS double-headers.

jono

[Napoleon]

Hey, it just occurred to me, this means that Pimp$ke and Ray-Hole and maybe Whinedretti will be seen at certain Champcar events where we can rain down derision upon them.

[devilmaster]

Now now nappy..... we wouldn't do that, would we? http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/scorchio/sasmokin.gif

[Jag_Warrior]

SPEEDTV.com has learned that Honda Performance Development will enter the American LeMans Series next year in order to compete head-to-head with Porsche and Penske in the LMP2 category...

This scenario becomes extra interesting because Champ Car and ALMS are working on a deal to run half a dozen doubleheaders together in 2006 -- beginning with Long Beach. So, indirectly, Honda would be again associated with Champ Car.

Great news! But I can imagine my old (ALMS luvin'/CCWS hatin') pal Brian Keske has shot into orbit. Half dozen doubleheaders! :thumbup:

Atherton tried to get Honda to the table before they went IRL'ing.

[Jag_Warrior]

Wait, I thought it was fHonda around here?
:p

That was yesterday. Today it's FHyundai.

[KLang]

Miller was right on about Toyota leaving, hopefully he's got the correct info on this one too. Teaming up with ALMS sounds very interesting but didn't they have issues in Miami? Granted different management now. Interesting possibilites. Could the next Atlantic car be a Panoz/Honda?

[Napoleon]

Now now nappy..... we wouldn't do that, would we? http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/scorchio/sasmokin.gif

No, of course not! ;)



Great news! But I can imagine my old (ALMS luvin'/CCWS hatin') pal Brian Keske has shot into orbit. Half dozen doubleheaders! :thumbup:

:rofl:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Great to see Honda back, but I just hope the ALMS knows what they are getting into...

The sooner that Porsche and Honda go from LMP2 to LMP1 and let the privateers have back their class, the better it'll be for ALMS.

And if these doubleheaders get RA and MO back on the schedule, you'll see one happy Sean. :)

[sundaydriver2]

It's great that CC might be teaming up with ALMS. But if have to be at the same track as the traitors (Rathole and WienerAndetti), I'm going to have to bring a bull horn so I can make sure they know they suck.

[lone_groover]

It's great that CC might be teaming up with ALMS. But if have to be at the same track as the traitors (Rathole and WienerAndetti), I'm going to have to bring a bull horn so I can make sure they know they suck.

I wonder if Ed Bluestone is a race fan.....

:gomer:

[coolhand]

rumor is that AGR and Rahal will run teams too.

all those "top" teams are on their way out of Openwheel all together

[extramundane]

rumor is that AGR and Rahal will run teams too.

all those "top" teams are on their way out of Openwheel all together

Ah, the old Rahal to ALMS rumor. I guess it was due, it's been, what, a month since we last heard it?

Honda to ALMS I can buy 100%. Rahal & AGR? Not so much.

[pchall]

Wait, I thought it was fHonda around here?


:p

When the other guy is getting slammed it is always a good thing. ;)

The only thing missing here is some comment on how this could be a Good Thing™ for North American sportscar racing. If ALMS could only throw off the shackles of a single event they could be great (sound familiar?). LM2 without air restrictors would be cool stuff.






™Martha-in-Chains.com

[RacinM3]

My small brain is having trouble seeing the allure of this whole LMP2 "craze". Are these guys all afraid of the next gen Audi or what?

[extramundane]

My small brain is having trouble seeing the allure of this whole LMP2 "craze". Are these guys all afraid of the next gen Audi or what?

The factories are doing P2 for a couple of reasons: as a testbed for P1 ventures, and (at least in the case of Porsche) to sell customer cars to privateers. The Mazda effort, though "supported" by the factory, isn't funded by it. As for Honda, I imagine they would do P2 simply because the engines of which they'll have a large stockpile are more fitting for P2 than P1.

[coolhand]

I wish Mazda would get involved around now too. but Ford is cutting back on all racing

[extramundane]

I wish Mazda would get involved around now too. but Ford is cutting back on all racing

Word is that, depending on ALMS/ACO restrictor breaks for rotaries, Mazda may want to step up factory involvement. Probably an engine-only program, though, unless they badge a chassis a la MG/Lola.

I think Ford's only cutting back where they're not making money. For example, their Grand-Am Cup program is fairly inexpensive and, given the clock-cleaning they're giving the field, likely to spur enough extra Mustang-buying to pay for the program.

[coolhand]

Word is that, depending on ALMS/ACO restrictor breaks for rotaries, Mazda may want to step up factory involvement. Probably an engine-only program, though, unless they badge a chassis a la MG/Lola.

I think Ford's only cutting back where they're not making money. For example, their Grand-Am Cup program is fairly inexpensive and, given the clock-cleaning they're giving the field, likely to spur enough extra Mustang-buying to pay for the program.

so where do you see ford staying put in or expanding too? they have a few hundred million from pulling out of F1

[extramundane]

so where do you see ford staying put in or expanding too? they have a few hundred million from pulling out of F1

I don't think they'll be changing too much. NASCAR's their main focus, and they're spending almost nil on CCWS, Grand Am, and SWC combined. I imagine they could be convinced to do some engine badging, but that's probably about as far as the Ford brand will go.

Mazda clearly wants to do sportscars, but the money's not there, and a Jaguar return to ACO racing is a recurring rumor, but again it's a money issue.

[Jag_Warrior]

a Jaguar return to ACO racing is a recurring rumor

Though pressed for time... I do what I can. :laugh:

[NismoZ]

Rahal will be doing GT1 with Aston Martins, correct? And whats so hard to see about AGR in LMP1 or 2 if Honda buys in? Seems fairly plausible.

[extramundane]

Rahal will be doing GT1 with Aston Martins, correct?

If rumors were to be believed, Rahal would have been fielding 3/4 of the ALMS field the last couple years. There will be at least 2 full-time Astons in the ALMS next year, but I doubt Rahal will be one of them.


And whats so hard to see about AGR in LMP1 or 2 if Honda buys in? Seems fairly plausible.

Honda won't be in LMP2.

[Ankf00]

I'd **** a brick of Rahal was gifted an Aston team, here's to hoping he's still floundering in the bull **** league

[extramundane]

Honda won't be in LMP2.

I perhaps stand corrected. From a very knowledgeable poster on another forum:


But 15 chassis have been ordered, firm.. for this Honda LMP2. North American built. Panoz?

[cameraman]

I perhaps stand corrected. From a very knowledgeable poster on another forum:

15 chassis :saywhat:
Honda is picking up this tab?
How many teams are they going to back?
Who are they going to run against, there were only 4 LMP2s at Lime Rock and one of them didn't even start.

It would be great for the ALMS but wow.....

[extramundane]

15 chassis :saywhat:
Honda is picking up this tab?
How many teams are they going to back?
Who are they going to run against, there were only 4 LMP2s at Lime Rock and one of them didn't even start.

It would be great for the ALMS but wow.....

The poster is in the know, but it seems a bit overwhelming, doesn't it? I'm still not buying it, but...even a 15-car P2 effort would cost a fraction of what they're pouring down the drain in IRL.

[Sean O'Gorman]

15 seems a bit outrageous, unless there is significant interest from Europe and/or Japan as well. Even then, I don't know, because that seems like an awfully high number for a project that was unheard of until about a week ago. Would be cool, if true.

[coolhand]

15 seems a bit outrageous, unless there is significant interest from Europe and/or Japan as well. Even then, I don't know, because that seems like an awfully high number for a project that was unheard of until about a week ago. Would be cool, if true.

well divide it by 3, thats 5 teams.

set up one japanese based one.
2 in ALMS
2 in Europe.

thats all i can think of. its not like they bang up that many tubs in that series

[extramundane]

well divide it by 3, thats 5 teams.

set up one japanese based one.
2 in ALMS
2 in Europe.

thats all i can think of. its not like they bang up that many tubs in that series

All of the rumors have been ALMS-specific. Nary a word has been mentioned about Europe or Japan (Japan doesn't even have a prototype series, so a Japanese team would have to run ALMS or LMES).

I'm still ranking it as only slightly more likely than the Shaw chassis, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Sean O'Gorman]

What is the Shaw chassis?

[cameraman]

http://www.renevilleneuve.com/newspage.htm

http://www.renevilleneuve.com/sct_lmp1_33_small.jpg

[coolhand]

i dont like the faux second seat

[extramundane]

What is the Shaw chassis?

The whole story is long and arduous, but despite a certain sportscar
"news" site's constant claims to the contrary, Shaw = Vaporware.

[FCYTravis]

The "Shaw" "chassis" is sports car racing's equivalent to the "Hemelgarn to Champ Car" rumors.

Well, except there might actually at one point have been a teensy weensy eeny grain of truth to the Hemelgarn rumors.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Ah. The nose of that thing is ugly enough that I thought maybe it was named after a certain Internet journalist...

:p

[Dr. Corkski]

The whole story is long and arduous, but despite a certain sportscar
"news" site's constant claims to the contrary, Shaw = Vaporware.Shaw = Vaporjournalism as well. :gomer:

[extramundane]

The "Shaw" "chassis" is sports car racing's equivalent to the "Hemelgarn to Champ Car" rumors.

Well, except there might actually at one point have been a teensy weensy eeny grain of truth to the Hemelgarn rumors.

He'd have had all 6 of his cars at Sebring if not for that faulty paint application. :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[Rocketdoc]

http://www.renevilleneuve.com/newspage.htm

http://www.renevilleneuve.com/sct_lmp1_33_small.jpg


My lord...what a turd.

It looks like the aerodynamics of a pineapple.

[pchall]

My lord...what a turd.

It looks like the aerodynamics of a pineapple.


Looks like some teenager kitbashed that out a couple of 1/24th scale plastic kits and some sheet abs...

[extramundane]

Looks like some teenager kitbashed that out a couple of 1/24th scale plastic kits and some sheet abs...

That's probably not too far from the truth (assuming the thing ever sees the light of day...).

[extramundane]

Things just keep getting weirder... (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1349871#post1349871)


It seems as though these talks revolve around Honda participation. While all I've heard is rumours, it seems as though Honda will indeed run an LMP2 program, with 15 chassis being built right now. These cars are proported to be used by their Honda Open Wheel teams, at combined events, and those that are not conflicts. Specifically Rahal, AGR and Fernandez, and perhaps other CCWS teams. That's right, the rumour is that all IRL Honda teams would be headed over to run CCWS and ALMS.

The tracks.

Sebring, Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta (Petite LeMans weekend) or Mosport (???).

on the flip side.

LBGP, one of the Mexican races, Montreal.

These six races will have be combined for a points championship, within a championship termed the Can Am challenge.

I still don't see it, but again, happy to be proven wrong...

[cameraman]

Oh lord, can you see the reaction in the Champ Car hater community if Honda, Rahal, AGR and Fernandez all came back to CCWS?

There would be brains exploding everywhere... :laugh:

And it would kill Wilke & Defender too....

[Sean O'Gorman]

Oh lord, can you see the reaction in the Champ Car hater community if Honda, Rahal, AGR and Fernandez all came back to CCWS?

There would be brains exploding everywhere... :laugh:

And it would kill Wilke & Defender too....

Rahal, Andretti, and Fernandez must be aiming to alienate fans of every racing series in the U.S. :shakehead

[FTG]

Things just keep getting weirder... (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1349871#post1349871)



I still don't see it, but again, happy to be proven wrong...


Honda wanted unification. Maybe they found two same parties willing to unify?

[cameraman]

Rahal, Andretti, and Fernandez must be aiming to alienate fans of every racing series in the U.S. :shakehead

They are pawns in the game and they are being played, hard

[pchall]

Things just keep getting weirder... (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1349871#post1349871)
I still don't see it, but again, happy to be proven wrong...

If this is supposed to be an all Honda deal it makes little sense. Honda wants somebody to compete against and there don't seem to be enough good LM2s with "name" engines in North America to make it work.

But if a 3.4l Cosworth shows up in available LM2 chassis it might fit the bill for Honda.

[coolhand]

Things just keep getting weirder... (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1349871#post1349871)



I still don't see it, but again, happy to be proven wrong...

i like the idea of a mini cam-am championship that has connections to ALMS and CCWS.

far fethced but sounds cool

[Sean O'Gorman]

If this is supposed to be an all Honda deal it makes little sense. Honda wants somebody to compete against and there don't seem to be enough good LM2s with "name" engines in North America to make it work.

Porsche?

[coolhand]

If this is supposed to be an all Honda deal it makes little sense. Honda wants somebody to compete against and there don't seem to be enough good LM2s with "name" engines in North America to make it work.

But if a 3.4l Cosworth shows up in available LM2 chassis it might fit the bill for Honda.

Penske-Porsche is who they want to beat

[pchall]

Penske-Porsche is who they want to beat

Steamrollering a couple of Porsches with a dozen cars doesn't sound like much fun. ;)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Steamrollering a couple of Porsches with a dozen cars doesn't sound like much fun. ;)

I wonder if some of those chassis orders are for backup cars?

And is steamrollering an actual word?

[coolhand]

Steamrollering a couple of Porsches with a dozen cars doesn't sound like much fun. ;)

people do that to the 911 GTs regularly. :thumbup:

[Lizzerd]

Oh lord, can you see the reaction in the Champ Car hater community if Honda, Rahal, AGR and Fernandez all came back to CCWS?

There would be brains exploding everywhere... :laugh:

And it would kill Wilke & Defender too....

I wouldn't mind seeing them come back to the series and racing, but I would spit on any of them, show them my longest finger on my closest hand to them at the time, utter some expletives loud enough for them to hear me, and throw rotten eggs at them on the podium any time I saw them at a race.

[coolhand]

ok. One of the main reasons honda went to the IRL was because of the indy 500, And giving that up to come to champ car, a series with no major event, was a tough sell for Kalhoven.

So with this CCWS/ALMS partnership KK can offer Honda a solid road racing base in America reaching a bigger audience then before and in exchange of Indy honda has the chance win Le Mans, a comprable international event too Indy.

[FCYTravis]

Well, if you're looking for international recognition at Le Mans, winning LMP2 isn't exactly the way to do it.

I challenge someone to name the LMP675/LMP2 winners at Le Mans since the class was created without looking it up.

[coolhand]

Well, if you're looking for international recognition at Le Mans, winning LMP2 isn't exactly the way to do it.

I challenge someone to name the LMP675/LMP2 winners at Le Mans since the class was created without looking it up.

i thought part of "the plan" was to move up to P1, like penske is planning

[extramundane]

Well, if you're looking for international recognition at Le Mans, winning LMP2 isn't exactly the way to do it.

I challenge someone to name the LMP675/LMP2 winners at Le Mans since the class was created without looking it up.

Well, there's RML's B05/40, Intersport B2K/40, some Noel de Bello Reynards...and then it gets fuzzy.

Out-on-a-limb prediction: Porsche P2 wins LeMans 2006.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well, there's RML's B05/40, Intersport B2K/40, some Noel de Bello Reynards...and then it gets fuzzy.

Out-on-a-limb prediction: Porsche P2 wins LeMans 2006.

Ok, now name the drivers. :D

[cameraman]

I wouldn't mind seeing them come back to the series and racing, but I would spit on any of them, show them my longest finger on my closest hand to them at the time, utter some expletives loud enough for them to hear me, and throw rotten eggs at them on the podium any time I saw them at a race.And you would be one of the calmer ones... :rolleyes:

It would be really nice if this actually happened. The whole CCWS/ALMS double header concept sounds like heaven to me. They could cede all the ovals to nascab for all I care.

[Rocketdoc]

They are pawns in the game and they are being played, hard


In a way, you may be right, but I also think that they no longer care one whit about the fans that have followed and supported them for all the years of their growth and prominence in the sport, and that, to me, is something that they can never recover from.
In a condensed and simplistic form, the "fans" are the engine that makes any series survive, and they have destroyed that "bond".

Only one man's opinion.

[Sean O'Gorman]

In a way, you may be right, but I also think that they no longer care one whit about the fans that have followed and supported them for all the years of their growth and prominence in the sport, and that, to me, is something that they can never recover from.

I don't really think they cared in the first place, going back to the CART days. Some of the drivers/owners in open wheel are very out of touch with the fans, IMO.

I have a very hard time cheering for professional race car drivers when it seems like so many are so inconsiderate and/or insincere. We need more guys like Randy Pobst and Alex Zanardi, and less Rahals and Andrettis.

[extramundane]

Ok, now name the drivers. :D

I can name the drivers of the 2006 LeMans LMP2-winning Porsche. Well, 2 of them anyway...