2006 Schedule Rumors (was: More on CCWS/ALMS...)

[rabbit]

Per David Phillips (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/18105/)

CHAMP CAR/ALMS TIES?

That said, Kalkhoven readily conceded Champ Car is in discussion about a potential association with the American Le Mans Series. Association as in areas of mutual interest/benefit, and most assuredly NOT anything like a merger.

"There is certainly no merger - let's not start another round of merger talks!" he laughed. "There are discussions with ALMS to have mutual benefit, and until we announce our schedule in early August, that's all I can say. There are no talks about mergers, but ALMS seem to be growing in strength. I think the fact that Porsche wants in shows there is considerable interest in sports car racing."

Speaking of schedules, Kalkhoven said "it's possible" there will be some doubleheader weekends in 2006 with the Champ Car World Series and the ALMS.

A speculative CCWS schedule making the rounds in Toronto is as follows:

Sebring (March 19)
Long Beach (April 9)
Monterrey (May 21)
Milwaukee (June 3)
San Jose (June 18)
Cleveland (June 25)
Toronto (July 9)
Edmonton (July 16)
Portland (July 30)
Denver (August 13)
Montreal (August 27)
Houston (September 9)
Las Vegas (September 23)
Bejing (October 8)
Ansan (October 15)
Surfers Paradise (October 22)
Mexico City (October 5)

The possible Champ Car/ALMS doubleheaders would be Sebring, Portland and Houston, with the actual date of the Champ Car race at Sebring either on Sunday (after Saturday's 12 Hours) or perhaps on Friday (before the 12
Hours).

Recall that Bruno Junqueira tested a Newman/Haas Champ Car on the Sebring long course earlier this year (as opposed to the short circuit usually used for Champ Car tests). Junqueira, in Toronto, was enthusiastic about a possible Champ Car race at the venerable airport circuit.

"It is a very challenging circuit," he said. "For sure it is bumpy in some places, mainly the start/finish straightaway and the straightaway behind the pits and the turn connecting the two. But the rest of the circuit is OK and, besides, the bumps are the same for everyone. I think it would be good for us to race there, it would bring Champ Car back to Florida and be a good race for the sports car fans." Sounds interesting. I've always thought they should have a race at Sebring, and tying it in with the 12 Hours sounds like a good move.

[nrc]

From SpeedTV: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/18105/

*edit* Sorry, didn't see this when I posted the other thread.

With Houston that would mean a new road course and a new street course. Still two big gaps at the start of the season, though.

[SteveH]

June 3 is a Saturday. :thumdown: Unless its at night. :thumbup: :D

[RTKar]

June 3 is a Saturday. :thumdown: Unless its at night. :thumbup: :D

Last year of the contract. I wonder what'll happen between Champcar and the Mile. tg covets this date which could work in CC's favor. I 'd like to see this race during the State fair...built in audience, built in promotion.Obviously CC won't want to totaly abandon the Milwaukee/Chicago market.... :confused:

[Insomniac]

Last year of the contract. I wonder what'll happen between Champcar and the Mile. tg covets this date which could work in CC's favor. I 'd like to see this race during the State fair...built in audience, built in promotion.Obviously CC won't want to totaly abandon the Milwaukee/Chicago market.... :confused:

I like this date better. OW isn't big enough to draw a crowd by itself right now. Having oither events can increase the number of people attending races. Hopefully they'll like what they see.

[pchall]

Just caught up with David Phillips Saturday Notes from Toronto where he gives a tentative schedule circulating there:



Sebring (March 19)
Long Beach (April 9)
Monterrey (May 21)
Milwaukee (June 3)
San Jose (June 18)
Cleveland (June 25)
Toronto (July 9)
Edmonton (July 16)
Portland (July 30)
Denver (August 13)
Montreal (August 27)
Houston (September 9)
Las Vegas (September 23)
Bejing (October 8)
Ansan (October 15)
Surfers Paradise (October 22)
Mexico City (October 5)

The possible Champ Car/ALMS doubleheaders would be Sebring, Portland and Houston, with the actual date of the Champ Car race at Sebring either on Sunday (after Saturday's 12 Hours) or perhaps on Friday (before the 12
Hours).


link (http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/18105/)

[Dr. Corkski]

Houston or Vegas in the LB-Mty break would be much better than in the dead of the heat in Sept.

[coolhand]

Houston or Vegas in the LB-Mty break would be much better than in the dead of the heat in Sept.

spyplanes claims that wrong and monterrey will be before long beach

[pchall]

spyplanes claims that wrong and monterrey will be before long beach

And what does MarkC claim will between LBGP and Milwaukee, then?

[coolhand]

And what does MarkC claim will between LBGP and Milwaukee, then?
Sebring (March 19) with ALMS (Champ Car won't run Friday as some speculate)
Monterrey (April 2)
Long Beach (April 9) with ALMS
Houston (April 23) with ALMS
Brazil and/or South Africa (May - Long shot for 2006)
Milwaukee (June 4) Back to Sunday
--------------

according to RM on speednews CCWS will run on Friday at sebring

[dando]

Houston or Vegas in the LB-Mty break would be much better than in the dead of the heat in Sept.
Heck ya. HOU is September is brutal. It was gawd awful hot there in October, plus tropical storm season is @ its peak in Sept.

-Kevin

[CART T. Katz]

there is still that glaring multi-week gap between race 1 and 2 though

[chop456]

A Sebring doubleheader might mean a new personal best for racing/alcohol consumption. :D

Friday would be better than Sunday also, IMHO.

Bring it.

[dirtyboy]

Friday would be better than Sunday also, IMHO.

Ya better if you travel to the track, drink for a couple of days straight and then get to catch an early Sunday flight home. As for TV ratings they would suck balls.

[chop456]

Maybe a .6 tape-delayed instead of a .8 live? The schedule should revolve around me. ME! I think a lot of people would still leave the track Saturday night/Sunday morning, regardless of whether Champ Car was there or not. I'd obviously stay. Quals would have to be Friday, also.

P.S. Turns out you were smart for skipping the USGP, but you still owe me a sandwich. :gomer:

[KLang]

Houston in April makes a lot more sense then September. :thumbup:

I haven't seen anything in the local paper about this though. I wonder where they would set up the track?

[Insomniac]

there is still that glaring multi-week gap between race 1 and 2 though

Even bigger between 2 and 3. I hope they can fill those up. It really is a poor way to start the season.

[SteveH]

On Speed News last night, Miller said the Houston track would be longer than the orginal configuration. No other details.

[Stu]

Houston or Vegas in the LB-Mty break would be much better than in the dead of the heat in Sept.



Vegas at the end of September ain't that bad. Averages in the low 90s to upper 80s. Thats solid Vegas weather right there.

[Andrew Longman]

On Speed News last night, Miller said the Houston track would be longer than the orginal configuration. No other details.

The length is one thing. Having something other than a series of 90 degree corners is another.

[Racing Truth]

spyplanes claims that wrong and monterrey will be before long beach

Further confirming MarkC's inherent stupidity. :gomer:

Really, that makes NO SENSE.

[cameraman]

Really, that makes NO SENSE.
There is a little bit of sense there in that it would be less likely to be in the high 90's in Monterrey earlier in the year. It was roasting hot at the race this year.

[FCYTravis]

Just look how excited the ALMS fans are about this potential partnership: :shakehead :rolleyes:

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4621

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4616

Selected quotes:
"ps. In fact, put me on the screw CCWS bandwagon. This schedule offers the ALMS absolutely nothing and reeks havoc with the whole stable schedule issue we heard about. Without LB, Montreal and a Mexico race, there is nothing in it for the ALMS."

"I've also got to observe that KK spouting off with this kind of interview while negotiations are presumeably ongoing illustrates exactly why these guys would make lousy business partners. Real classy -- and it points to the fact that the CCWS looks out first, foremost and always for itself."

"It's the same thing they did to the IRL all through May and June. It's clear their league is totally irrelevant and unstable. They're asking City Councils and Chambers for more money in every town they race at. They're not being that successful, so what do they do? The hitch on to an estabilished and successful series (the IRL in May and June, and after that the ALMS in July). They claim that negotiations for a merger/business partnership are going on. They tell the City Councils, "You better give us more money because we might be with them next year." And they leak the news to the press to have something other than artificial finishes under yellow, shortend races, and crash fests to talk about. "

"My heart will sink if all this 'stuff' happens. I just cannot express my distaste of how CART/CCWS has been run since Pook, and now the 'new guy's'. IMO, this would be a huge mistake."

Yep, this is headed for success.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Good thing hardcore ALMS fans are virtually irrelevent in the grand scheme of things. You think any of them will actually skip an ALMS race because of the ADDITION of Champ Car??? I wouldn't worry about the hostility, the casual ticket-buying race fan will love this combo, and that is what matters.

[racer2c]

Just look how excited the ALMS fans are about this potential partnership: :shakehead :rolleyes:

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4621

http://www.americanlemans.com/fanfrenzy/almsforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4616

Selected quotes:
"ps. In fact, put me on the screw CCWS bandwagon. This schedule offers the ALMS absolutely nothing and reeks havoc with the whole stable schedule issue we heard about. Without LB, Montreal and a Mexico race, there is nothing in it for the ALMS."

"I've also got to observe that KK spouting off with this kind of interview while negotiations are presumeably ongoing illustrates exactly why these guys would make lousy business partners. Real classy -- and it points to the fact that the CCWS looks out first, foremost and always for itself."

"It's the same thing they did to the IRL all through May and June. It's clear their league is totally irrelevant and unstable. They're asking City Councils and Chambers for more money in every town they race at. They're not being that successful, so what do they do? The hitch on to an estabilished and successful series (the IRL in May and June, and after that the ALMS in July). They claim that negotiations for a merger/business partnership are going on. They tell the City Councils, "You better give us more money because we might be with them next year." And they leak the news to the press to have something other than artificial finishes under yellow, shortend races, and crash fests to talk about. "

"My heart will sink if all this 'stuff' happens. I just cannot express my distaste of how CART/CCWS has been run since Pook, and now the 'new guy's'. IMO, this would be a huge mistake."

Yep, this is headed for success.

And I thought TF'ers were the only ones out of touch with reality. :thumdown:

[Easy]

And I thought TF'ers were the only ones out of touch with reality. :thumdown:



CW (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/)

[Racing Truth]

CW (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/)

:laugh:
This PT-Seabass thing is getting so good, even the NASCAR crowd has got to start paying attention pretty soon....

:rofl:

Quick, I want what this guy's smokin'. :gomer:

Not that the PT-Seabass isn't good. It is. But thinking the "NASCAR crowd has got to start paying attention pretty soon..." Wow, that's just hilarious.

[FCYTravis]

Goddamn. The kick is up, it's long enough, it's high enough, HOLY **** IT'S THROUGH THE NET! EASY FROM 110 YARDS! :rofl:

[pchall]

IT'S THROUGH THE NET! EASY FROM 110 YARDS! :rofl:

Have the Canuckians merged the CFL and NHL? :confused:

[nrc]

And I thought TF'ers were the only ones out of touch with reality. :thumdown:
I would bet that one or more of those quotes came from TF users. I went to look but registration is required and I'm still waiting for an acknowledgement.

I like the idea because it would add another road course to the schedule and it might help another one regain some momentum. Other than that, I can take it or leave it.

[devilmaster]

Have the Canuckians merged the CFL and NHL? :confused:

The new actual slogan will be It's a Whole New Game!

[nrc]

"It's the same thing they did to the IRL all through May and June. It's clear their league is totally irrelevant and unstable...Posted by a TF Lemming who seems to live someplace other than the reality the most of us share.


"My heart will sink if all this 'stuff' happens. I just cannot express my distaste of how CART/CCWS has been run since Pook, and now the 'new guy's'. IMO, this would be a huge mistake."Another TF poster. He has over a 1000 posts on TF, but he professes that he's "not an IRL fan, per se". Maybe just a CCWS hater.

Someone even called the first poster on his anti-CCWS agenda in the thread and yet you post this crap here as though it represents a typical ALMS fan. Are you trolling or something?

It's fair to say that there are ALMS fans who are bitter or wary based on past experience, but for the most part they seem pragmatic about the pros and cons and concerned about who gets top billing where - just as CCWS fans are.

[FCYTravis]

nrc: They're TFers, sure. They're also prolific posters on the ALMS forum and respected members of the ALMS fan community. Their opinions aren't taken lightly. They *are* typical members of the hardcore ALMS fanbase.

From another user entirely, with 2,421 posts:

"What a joke.

Sebring does not need Champcar for that weekend. Why would they pay a sanction fee that they "hope" to recoup from Sunday ticket purchases?

Can't be a support race? It's SEBRING for crying out loud."

I'm hardly trolling. I'm pointing out that there seems to be very little love lost between the hardcore ALMS fanbase and Champ Car. There is a substantial faction that wants to see Champ Car dead in the hopes that it'll boost ALMS - because it'll be the only "real road racing" left in America. There is also a substantial faction that thinks hooking up with Champ Car is a dumb idea because they feel CART burned ALMS in the past.

Oh, and that "person who's calling the first poster on his anti-CCWS agenda" registered on the ALMS forum minutes after I posted here. Coincidence?

[racer2c]

Well, I for one am not going to dump all over the ALMS series just because some members of what is a very small niche group of hard core fans thinks about the CCWS. (My years of bitching about NASCAR and the IRL have done very, very, very little).

the ALMS have their own problems with GA. I do think they should focus their sentiments towards the ALMS leaders instead of dumping on the CCWS. Obviously the ALMS sees value in some shared venues while they try to keep their collective heads above water.

I used to laugh at the ol' NASCAR drivers who would demean "sporty cars", but with additudes like you can see where it came or comes from.

Have the ALMS broadcast ratings been trotted out yet? If not, I'm sure their coming. :rolleyes:

[FCYTravis]

Where did I dump all over the ALMS?

I was pointing out one of the issues that any potential hookup will have to deal with. Namely, disgruntled fans.

Just because some people here think Champ Car is "real racing" and ALMS is "real racing" doesn't mean they fit together like a lock and a key.

[racer2c]

Please show me where I was dumping all over the ALMS. Point it out. Wait, you can't - it doesn't exist.

I was pointing out one of the issues that any potential hookup will have to deal with. Namely, disgruntled fans.

Just because some people here think Champ Car is "real racing" and ALMS is "real racing" doesn't mean they fit together like a lock and a key.

Sorry, I wasn't accusing you of doing that (just kinda blogging and not making myself clear). I was just making a point that just because some hard cores with questionable agendas and backgrounds make anti-CCWS comments on the Internet, I'm not going to hate their series (like they do).

But with that said, again, obviously the ALMS think they can do business together no matter what the Defender of the ALMS forum thinks.

I think O'Gorman put it best. Their comments are meaningless. Now then, maybe we'll see the ALMS pull out and site the fact "due to the negative fan response"...but I doubt it.

I don't think it's a great thing myself. I don't like top billing competitions and at a place like Sebring, the CCWS is nothing more than a warm up act which rubs me the wrong way.

[coolhand]

And I thought TF'ers were the only ones out of touch with reality. :thumdown:

i wonder if those posts are from some of our favorite TFers.

either way those people are as illrelvent as crappies

[coolhand]

nrc: They're TFers, sure. They're also prolific posters on the ALMS forum and respected members of the ALMS fan community. Their opinions aren't taken lightly. They *are* typical members of the hardcore ALMS fanbase.

From another user entirely, with 2,421 posts:

"What a joke.

Sebring does not need Champcar for that weekend. Why would they pay a sanction fee that they "hope" to recoup from Sunday ticket purchases?

Can't be a support race? It's SEBRING for crying out loud."

I'm hardly trolling. I'm pointing out that there seems to be very little love lost between the hardcore ALMS fanbase and Champ Car. There is a substantial faction that wants to see Champ Car dead in the hopes that it'll boost ALMS - because it'll be the only "real road racing" left in America. There is also a substantial faction that thinks hooking up with Champ Car is a dumb idea because they feel CART burned ALMS in the past.

Oh, and that "person who's calling the first poster on his anti-CCWS agenda" registered on the ALMS forum minutes after I posted here. Coincidence?

who cares what those haters think,

if they looked at it more realistically they could see that this would boost not only other fan interest but also some cross over teams/drivers to the series.

[FCYTravis]

I think it would be a great thing for both series as well. Butch Leitzinger in a Champ Car? Andrew Ranger in a Corvette? Rock on.

Too bad you can't tell it to some of the fans. :thumdown:

[coolhand]

I think it would be a great thing for both series as well. Butch Leitzinger in a Champ Car? Andrew Ranger in a Corvette? Rock on.

Too bad you can't tell it to some of the fans. :thumdown:

i dont see them switching to CCWS but i do see say, PT getting shot in ALMS or other stuff.

[FCYTravis]

One-offs on co-weekends would work.

[racer2c]

$100 says there will not be any ALMS guy jumping in a Champ Car for a weekend one off. A promo lap or two in front of the TV cameras...maybe.
PT or SB in a sports car I can see.

[nrc]

nrc: They're TFers, sure. They're also prolific posters on the ALMS forum and respected members of the ALMS fan community. Their opinions aren't taken lightly. They *are* typical members of the hardcore ALMS fanbase.Prolific? 500 posts between them, not even a post per day on average, and that's prolific? That's not even considering how many of those posts are either pimping crapwagons or trying to stir up sentiment against Champ car.

I know very well that some ALMS fans have issues with Champ car. But given that you get around the forums I think you knew very well that those two quotes came from individuals with agendas that aren't based on them being ALMS fans. You're not doing either Champ car or ALMS fans any favors by passing their lemming spew along without putting a warning label on it.


Oh, and that "person who's calling the first poster on his anti-CCWS agenda" registered on the ALMS forum minutes after I posted here. Coincidence?Probably not. You posted crap right out the standard book of lemming rhetoric on a CCWS forum and not everyone is willing to play dumb as to what these guys are up to.

And no, that wasn't me if that's what you're implying.

[FCYTravis]

No, I didn't think it was you. But I do think it was someone from this forum inspired to defend Champ Car.

I also think that if you look at the totality of the forum, you'll find nobody particularly disagreeing and a striking number of members *agreeing* with the anti-Champ Car sentiments.

[coolhand]

No, I didn't think it was you. But I do think it was someone from this forum inspired to defend Champ Car.

I also think that if you look at the totality of the forum, you'll find nobody particularly disagreeing and a striking number of members *agreeing* with the anti-Champ Car sentiments.

Thise posts were so transparent, there would be no reason for any big ALMS fan to pay so much attention to the new champ car managment and harbor so much resentment towards them. If those really were ALMS fans then those comments were completly unwarrented.

the "totality" of the forum did not know or seem to care about what they were saying.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Prolific? 500 posts between them, not even a post per day on average, and that's prolific? That's not even considering how many of those posts are either pimping crapwagons or trying to stir up sentiment against Champ car.

Not that I disagree with you here, but you may want to look at the top 2 members in your own member list before saying that post count=credibility. :D

[trauma1]

CCWS+ALMS+ porsche ? = penski is in this somewhere

[nrc]

Not that I disagree with you here, but you may want to look at the top 2 members in your own member list before saying that post count=credibility. :D
Trust me. I would never argue that prolific means credible.

Meanwhile, IMSA coments.

Tim Mayer , chief operating officer of International Motor Sports Association, which sanctions ALMS races, called reports on SpeedTV.com that Champ Car had a tentative March19 date in Sebring "somewhat speculative." He did, however, see value in adding Champ Car to the weekend: "I think that any time that you can bring more value to your fans, it's good for motorsports. And obviously Sebring is a race with a lot of tradition and a lot of fans, but as an organization, we're always trying to find ways to improve that for our fans."
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/12/Sports/Champ_Car_casts_glanc.shtml

[KLang]

Meanwhile, IMSA coments.

"somewhat speculative."



Hmmm, sounds like there is actually something to this, otherwise they would have denied it.

[Easy]

Well, I for one am not going to dump all over the ALMS series just because some members of what is a very small niche group of hard core fans thinks about the CCWS.

Have the ALMS broadcast ratings been trotted out yet? If not, I'm sure their coming. :rolleyes:


As opposed to Champ Cars gigantic group of hardcore fans?

And ALMS TV numbers have generally been better than Champ Cars the last couple of years thanks in part to Spike TV and truly awful production. Last years Champ Car broadcasts were unwatchable.

[racer2c]

As opposed to Champ Cars gigantic group of hardcore fans?

And ALMS TV numbers have generally been better than Champ Cars the last couple of years thanks in part to Spike TV and truly awful production. Last years Champ Car broadcasts were unwatchable.

Didn't take long. Thanks! :gomer:

[Wheel-Nut]

With all this Houston talk I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside!! :thumbup:

[pferrf1]

The reality is that if the two series run joint events, there will not be two sets of fans lining up to fight each other like out of a scene of "The Warriors".

There will be one race weekend. Two top tier series racing. A whole pile of great support races and more than likely a happy promoter and a ton of happy, entertained fans.

[NismoZ]

That's kinda what I was thinkin'...don't know what all the fuss is about. Lotsa jealous territorial types around, I guess. A Saturday CC race with the ALMS RA500 the next day would make MY weekend complete! (esp. if an event like that would keep FTG away!...unless they want to do the C-Wagons with about 1000kms of Grand Ammers on another weekend. Jealous territorial types wouldn't like that either!)

[stroker]

Pferr and Niz have it. Although it's almost a shame we don't do the "Warriors" line up 'cuz I know we'd kick Gomer butt.

That RA combo weekend Niz describes would be GREAT. I can't believe that between the two series they couldn't work out some sort of sanctioning fee they could live with. It'd probably be pointless to kick it to Cheryl Barnes, though. :(

[cart7]

Arguing between ALMS and CCWS? :shakehead Good grief

[Fogelhund]

Hi folks, I thought I'd provide a little bit of background information for some of you, which might do a bit more service to the topic then a few quotes from a single thread from a forum.

First, about me. Real Name Brett Harrington. I was raised around the race track as my Father was the National Race Director for the Canadian Auto Sports Club in the 70's. During this time I visited most of the Canadian Race tracks in Ontario/Quebec. Dad helped design the original Shannonville, and was one of the people involved in creating the Atlantic series.

My first "Champcar" race was in 1977 at Mosport, Molson Diamond Indy, won by AJ Foyt. It was a pretty good race, and I've been following Indy/Champcars from this time on.

In the eighties Dad started doing photography work for the Major Vintage Associations and Magazines, so I visited Daytona, Homestead, Road Atlanta, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Mid Ohio, and Road America in addition to the Canadian tracks. Of course being Canadian, I've been to the Molson Indy a number of times.

I would suggest that I far prefer Natural Road Terrain courses, and I've been disappointed that CC's has veered away from running on these tracks. Anyway, I'm still a big fan of CC's, and do contribute on the ten-tenths CC forum.

Now, someone above quoted some stuff from the ALMS forum. The poster was Paul Collins. Paul has happened to attend every Molson Indy for years, is a regular follower of the series, and has reported on the Molson Indy event for a number of online news sites. To categorize him as anything but a fan of CC's misses the mark.

Lately there have been a great deal of rumours regarding CCWS and ALMS. Some of these rumours in my mind are very positive. One of the rumours has suggested that Honda could move to CCWS from IRL, and bring their Honda teams. I posted this in the ten-tenths forum.

Suprisingly to me, some CC fans did not have a positive response to this. Why? Because they had previously been burned by Honda, Rahal, Andretti and Fernandez for their defections. Perhaps some of you feel the same way, and have a certain distrust.

To me its about business, and having those teams and all their cars certainly is very positive to the CCWS, and puts a huge hole in the competition. I call it Hondafication.. as it could spell then end of the IRL if it happened.

Anyway, bottom line is some people are distrustful because they have been burned in the past.

Now, how does this relate to ALMS.

A couple of simple facts.

The Miami combined race was to be an ALMS event only. When the promoter issues occured, CC offered to promote the event, as co-headliners. The truth was that CC was the headline, and the ALMS became a support race. Without going into details, the treatment of the series and the teams was not what they had expected. The teams were placed on the opposite side of the pits for their paddock.. resulting in a number of needless DNF's. The ALMS wasn't happy and felt burned.

The second event was the Mexican ALMS event promoted by Forsythe. Forsythe cancelled the ALMS event way too late into the game, with costs to the series and the teams, not to mention the negative ramifications of having to cancel events midseason for sponsors.. fans... etc.

So, in one season Champcars put the boots to the ALMS twice.

So, many ALMS fans distrust Champcars based upon their past experiences, which are just as valid in their eyes as some of your distrust in Honda, Rahal, Andretti and Fernandez.

So, I hope you can empathize with why some ALMS fans have some distrust.

The other thing is that you cannot make sweeping generalizations about any group of people, whether they be Champcar fans, ALMS fans or whomever... they are obviously a diverse group.

Sure, some ALMS fans prefer the IRL to Champcars. Some ALMS fans prefer Champcars... Some Champcar fans prefer Grand Am... so be it.

To me this is about business. If the ALMS can find ways to strengthen their schedule, and add additional manufacturers, entrants and drivers by working with Champcars.. then great. But based on the past they need to ensure that all agreements are above board.

If Champcar can strengthen their schedule, and entrants and a manufacturer, and at the same time throw a critical blow to their competition, then that is great too.

Hopefully some of you can understand why so many sportscar fans are distrusting, even if you don't agree with them. There are plenty of sportscar fans that do hope that some type of working partnership can be created. I don't like the strength of NASCAR, or any of their affiliated series. I would far prefer a single open wheel series. If something can be done to combat the NASCAR series, and accelerate a move to a single open wheel series, then you can count this fan as being totally supportive of it.

Thanks for reading this long post.

[CART T. Katz]

very good insight. those facts on miami and mexico were things i was not aware of.

let me be the first to say welcome and stay for a while. :thumbup:

[skaven]

So, in one season Champcars put the boots to the ALMS twice.

But based on the past they need to ensure that all agreements are above board.

Great first post and thanks for sharing some of the tarnished history between ALMS and CCWS.

I am willing to give KK the benefit of the doubt in many regards, but I will not remain a fan of CCWS if they don't behave with good business ethics.

Real Racing. Real Sport. Real Partners. :thumbup:

[nrc]

Suprisingly to me, some CC fans did not have a positive response to this. Why? Because they had previously been burned by Honda, Rahal, Andretti and Fernandez for their defections. Perhaps some of you feel the same way, and have a certain distrust.
I understand your point here, but I think we're dealing with two entirely different orders of magnitude. With Honda, we're not talking about hurt feelings and crushed toes, we're talking about a very deliberate effort to put Champ car out of business.

I can understand the distrust of some ALMS fans to some degree. But I also think that some of those with hurt feelings are forgetting that CART bailed out a Miami event that was on the verge of becoming ALMS's third cancelled event of 2003.

[Fogelhund]

But I also think that some of those with hurt feelings are forgetting that CART bailed out a Miami event that was on the verge of becoming ALMS's third cancelled event of 2003.

This is under the assumption that CART would have been the other only people to promote that event. There were rumblings that Panoz was going to foot the bill, though he never publicly confirmed, nor denied same.

The ALMS management certainly learned their lessons that year though, and if a deal gets done (hope so), then you can bet diligence was done.

[Napoleon]

The Miami combined race was to be an ALMS event only.

By a promoter other then CART/Champcar. To say Champcar put "the boot" to ALMS in this event is the same unmitigated BS ALMS fans have been peddling for years. Somebody else was responsible for it getting into trouble. CC rescued it.

[nrc]

Also, didn't ALMS race for two years in Miami with Champ car? If they were so unhappy with the arrangement why come back?

[cameraman]

nothin

[extramundane]

Highlands Today article on CCWS/Sebring (http://www.highlandstoday.com/MGBTKQLK5BE.html)