How much is gas where you are?

[cameraman]

Still $4.179 here for regular:irked:

[oddlycalm]

A couple gypo outfits are down to $3.87 for regular 87 with the majors at $4.09.

oc

[dando]

We had slipped all the way down to $3.54, but bounced back up to $3.69 today. :irked: I should feel :) compared to others, tho. :(

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

I wonder what the Detroit car makers are thinking now as the oil companies are making the most money they have ever made while car makers profits are non-existent and sales are dropping quite a bit.

[Ankf00]

wash post chart

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601566.gif

[oddlycalm]

wash post chart
Good chart. About the only thing missing is that the price of exploration has doubled in the last few years and there is an acute equipment and manpower shortage.

The other bit of information that seems to have gotten misplaced in all loud dialogue is that the oil companies are not going to send their short supply of exploration rigs into those areas that offer the most challenging natural environments. :gomer:

oc

[Stu]

fwiw, oil prices are down to around 120.

[Ankf00]

About the only thing missing is that the price of exploration has doubled in the last few years and there is an acute equipment and manpower shortage.

The other bit of information that seems to have gotten misplaced in all loud dialogue is that the oil companies are not going to send their short supply of exploration rigs into those areas that offer the most challenging natural environments. :gomer:

oc


shhhh, no reasoning allowed at all. it's all the speculator's/republican's/bigoil's/democrat's/treehugger's fault!

[Insomniac]

shhhh, no reasoning allowed at all. it's all the speculator's/republican's/bigoil's/democrat's/treehugger's fault!

But NOT Danica's!

[oddlycalm]

But NOT Danica's!
Correct, it is never Danica's fault.

oc

[Stu]

shhhh, no reasoning allowed at all. it's all the speculator's/republican's/bigoil's/democrat's/treehugger's fault!

im confused. you joke that speculators dont have an impact on higher prices, but the article you posted says:


in the past several years, there has been an influx of investments from pensions and hedge funds and firms not in the oil business. this has increased the use of oil as a financial instrument, not just as a raw material.

the effect on price remains a great debate. most economists say this has no impact on prices. but many oil experts and financial analysts, while acknowledging the tight oil balance worldwide, say the influx of money has created a bubble effect similar to that of tech stocks or housing that raised prices further than they would have otherwise.

[Ankf00]

my point was that it isn't anything close to being primarily driven by speculation, which was boogeyman du jour prior to the President putting offshore leases into headlines.

I posted earlier about the price curve eerily matching that of tech & housing bubbles, but "the difference is crude is a finite product whose supply can't just be created or invented."

[JLMannin]

my point was that it isn't anything close to being primarily driven by speculation, which was boogeyman du jour prior to the President putting offshore leases into headlines.

I posted earlier about the price curve eerily matching that of tech & housing bubbles, but "the difference is crude is a finite product whose supply can't just be created or invented."

Right. But the number of contracts exchanged on a given day can equal tens of times the actual physical amount of oil those contracts represent.

Buying a commodity contract with the full intention of later re-selling it and never intending to take physical delivery is speculation in my book. If it is not speculation, then what do you call it? I would think that a massive amount of such trading would create an illusion of very tight supply, driving up prices. Is my view of the futures world too simplistic?

[Stu]

my point was that it isn't anything close to being primarily driven by speculation, which was boogeyman du jour prior to the President putting offshore leases into headlines.

I posted earlier about the price curve eerily matching that of tech & housing bubbles, but "the difference is crude is a finite product whose supply can't just be created or invented."

ok. just confused cuz the first part of your article was about the potential impact of speculation.

[Insomniac]

Right. But the number of contracts exchanged on a given day can equal tens of times the actual physical amount of oil those contracts represent.

Buying a commodity contract with the full intention of later re-selling it and never intending to take physical delivery is speculation in my book. If it is not speculation, then what do you call it? I would think that a massive amount of such trading would create an illusion of very tight supply, driving up prices. Is my view of the futures world too simplistic?

That's the definition of speculation. But that is done for so many things, and it has been done for so long. This isn't anything new. Fact is, somebody is selling these contracts. They don't just vanish at expiration. Someone is guaranteeing they will sell oil at a specific price.

You will see that most active traders will jump to the next active contract about 1 week before the current contract expires. That means for 1 week the contract expires with most active traders not involved. The volume drops off precipitously, yet the price doesn't drop much, if at all. In the end, someone will be taking delivery of that oil. No speculator is going to be holding the contract in the end.

[Ankf00]

ok. just confused cuz the first part of your article was about the potential impact of speculation.

Only considering USD value & supply/demand, I've read/heard mostly that crude should be somewhere around $80-$100. Market biz accounts for the rest supposedly.

[oddlycalm]

Is my view of the futures world too simplistic?
The answer is that nobody knows, and here's why.
Unregulated derivatives trade (http://www.moneyweek.com/file/47668/why-derivatives-are-getting-much-more-dangerous.html)

Sorry to derail the thread further but it silly to discuss commodity futures speculation when that market is dwarfed by one where 100% of the market is speculation, where there is not regulation and zero transparency :D

The problem with any discussion of commodity futures trade is that it ignores the fact that regulated trade in delivery contracts are a relatively tiny market compared to the totally unregulated trading in derivatives that track everything from stock indexes to commodities like oil. While someone actually takes delivery of a commodity contract at some point the same is not true of derivatives that track oil prices and indexes. Total trade on the futures markets is a known quantity, trade on the unregulated derivatives market is completely unknown. Even the CIA's estimate is just that.

Here's the punchline; derivatives with a face value of $596 trillion are actively traded and they track everything from commodities to stock and bond indexes, mortgages, etc. That is nearly 10 times the world GDP of $65 trillion. Another fun fact is that the leverage is so extreme that only $15 trillion in real money controls all that trade. Still, $15 trillion is a lot of money at risk because it's roughly equal to 25% of world GDP. Who's money is it? Unregulated hedge funds, institutions and sovereign (nation based) wealth funds. Again, none of our business.

We have already seen how much damage can be done when sub-prime mortgages blew up the market for mortgage backed derivatives. We (the taxpayers) are bailing out the smart folks who made bad bets on mortgage derivatives like Bear Stearns, Indymac, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The problem, as I see it, is that we aren't getting anything back. If we (or our grand kids) have to foot the bill for cleaniing up the messes we should get to regulate the game. Warren Buffet, George Soros and others have been saying this for years that this is a ticking time bomb and now we've gotten a small glimpse what can happen.

Back to oil. Nobody knows how much derivative trading effects the price of oil because it's none of our business (credit pressdog)

oc

[Indy]

^^^ Excellent post.

[Insomniac]

There are even regulated cash markets like spread betting in the UK. However, I just don't see that actually driving the price of oil. People are investing in what it will do, as opposed to investing in it. It seems like from a market standpoint, the impact would be purely psychological.

The bigger concern for the derivatives market is as you pointed put, we don't know much about it. The government and regulators are way behind the curve. They open up the discount window to these guys who put an inordinate amount of risk up to get their 2/20. If the fund crashes and burns, they don't care. They claimed it was an insurance policy, but it clearly didn't work for the sub-prime debt. And this stuff fades away from the news so quick. Everyone was worried about the credit default swaps and now no one talks about it. If that crumbles, we're in for a bigger world of hurt than the sub-prime fiasco. Then everyone will wonder where the government was again.

[oddlycalm]

I just don't see that actually driving the price of oil. People are investing in what it will do, as opposed to investing in it. It seems like from a market standpoint, the impact would be purely psychological.
In markets psychology is always a huge factor. Also, there is also no guarantee that the people and organizations with sufficient wealth to take such large derivatives positions would not have the ability to put a toe on the scales to improve their outcome at a time the oil market is moving $4 on rumors from the Niger Delta. Because there is zero regulation nobody would be looking so what would prevent that?

I'm not trying to say that oil prices have a huge speculation premium, what I'm saying is that we have no way to know and no method of controlling it if we did.

oc

[Insomniac]

In markets psychology is always a huge factor. Also, there is also no guarantee that the people and organizations with sufficient wealth to take such large derivatives positions would not have the ability to put a toe on the scales to improve their outcome at a time the oil market is moving $4 on rumors from the Niger Delta. Because there is zero regulation nobody would be looking so what would prevent that?

I'm not trying to say that oil prices have a huge speculation premium, what I'm saying is that we have no way to know and no method of controlling it if we did.

oc

I agree with you. And it could go far deeper. Where they would be trying to manipulate the real markets to make "bigger" (because of the even higher leverage) moves in the derivatives markets. I look at the derivatives market like sports betting. How people bet has no real impact on the game itself. (In an ideal world). The scariest part from that article is that it seems often people on one side don't even have the capital/assets to back their position. And they can basically walk away and flip off the other side.

[JLMannin]

I look at the derivatives market like sports betting. How people bet has no real impact on the game itself. (In an ideal world).

Right, unless you are a player, manager, referee, etc. Since these derivarives markets are totally unregulated, there is nothing stopping someone in the game from placing bets in the non-ideal world, correct?

BTW, gas down to $3.6x range this morning (87 octane)

[Sean Malone]

Compressed air concept.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/08/08/air.car/index.html

[Methanolandbrats]

Compressed air concept.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/08/08/air.car/index.html

I'll pass, I want a balsa wood car with a big rubber band on it. I'll just pull over and wind it up at regular intervals. :thumbup:

[Sean Malone]

I'll pass, I want a balsa wood car with a big rubber band on it. I'll just pull over and wind it up at regular intervals. :thumbup:

:thumbup:

How about a full size version of the 'pull back' toy car combined with the Flintstonemobile? Back it up with your feet about 100 yards, pick your feet up and go about a mile. You'll get to where you are going eventually!:)

[Stu]

oil prices down around 115

hopefully they dont fall so rapidly that people forget that we still need to drill and come up with alternative ideas. otherwise we'll be right back in this mess next year.

[oddlycalm]

I've always wondered if a steady diet of sauerkraut, sausage, deviled eggs and beer would make a methane powered car viable...:eek::D

oc

[dando]

I've always wondered if a steady diet of sauerkraut, sausage, deviled eggs and beer would make a methane powered car viable...:eek::D

oc

Only if Slyders are included. ;)

-Kevin

[Stu]

113 now

[Gnam]

I'm surprised the brouhaha in Georgia hasn't reversed oil's downward trend.

$4.07/gal in Norcal. That's a drop of $0.40 in a month.

[Insomniac]

I'm surprised the brouhaha in Georgia hasn't reversed oil's downward trend.

$4.07/gal in Norcal. That's a drop of $0.40 in a month.

I think the feeling is that they aren't going to hit the oil. If anything, they'll take it to sell themselves.

[Ankf00]

and they can also shut it off whenever they want, which they seem to like doing now and then

[dando]

Seen today in OCNJ as we left The Shore: Getty $3.55, the XON across the street was $4.25. WTF? For 87? :saywhat:

Also, as I completed the Schuylkill "Expressway" run this AM on the way back to oHIo (land of the left lane NASCAR draft), I followed a 4Runner for a bit and thought of our old pal fourrunner. RIP, Bruce. :( :cry:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

hope you fools have been saving up the past few weeks...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT07/refresh/AL0708W5+gif/143912W_sm.gif



http://www.rigzone.com/images/store/photos/opl/1729_A_Z.gifhttp://www.rigzone.com/images/store/photos/opl/1729_B_Z.gif


http://www.txpalms.com/deepwater.html

[Gnam]

That sucker needs to make a left. Gas just dropped to $3.97.

[cameraman]

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT07/refresh/AL0708W5+gif/143912W_sm.gif


Hmmm, mebbe Shrub will get to show us what he learned the first time around:eek:

[Ankf00]

That sucker needs to make a left. Gas just dropped to $3.97.

I'm rooting for Yucatan to Campeche. sorry messiko!

[ChampcarShark]

I'm rooting for Yucatan to Campeche. sorry messiko!

A hard right would be better.

[Gnam]

That's an ugly pair.

http://image.weather.com/images/sat/caribsat_600x405.jpg

[RHR_Fan]

That's an ugly pair.

http://image.weather.com/images/sat/caribsat_600x405.jpg

That's what she said. :rofl:

Dang can I crank the jokes out or what? :gomer:

On a serious note I am glad I do not live in that region of the country. That map - yikes! Give me snow over hurricanes any day.

~Nicole

[dando]

That's an ugly pair.


Hanna is actually not very well organized, and the current track projection has it fizzling into a TS and curving S into the Bahamas. That's a good thing, as we're supposed to drive to Hilton Head in the next few days, depending on when our youngest gets out of the hospital. :(

-Kevin

[TKGAngel]

Gustav now a Category 4, mandatory evacuation orders for New Orleans have been issued. Mayor Nagin calls it the "mother of all storms."

Hopefully this is all really, really precautionary.

dando, hope your little one is all right.

[dando]

Gustav now a Category 4, mandatory evacuation orders for New Orleans have been issued. Mayor Nagin calls it the "mother of all storms."

Hopefully this is all really, really precautionary.

dando, hope your little one is all right.

Thx, TKG. Suspected MRSA infection of a lymph node in her neck. Seriously scary to watch a 2 year-old go through this, but she's a trooper. :thumbup: Luckily both she and the ol' lady slept through The OSU game today. :D

Back on topic, Gustav is now forecast as a cat 5 storm @ 160 w/in 48 hours. :eek: Plus, Hanna's track has been updated towards the east coast of FL. :(

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRSA

Wash your hands, folks. :(

-Kevin

[KLang]

Saw dozens of empty tour buses heading east on I-10 yesterday. I assume heading for NO for the evacuation.

Looks like they are going to find out how the levee repairs and gates are going to hold up shortly.

[Insomniac]

Saw dozens of empty tour buses heading east on I-10 yesterday. I assume heading for NO for the evacuation.

Looks like they are going to find out how the levee repairs and gates are going to hold up shortly.

I read that the levees are supposed to be stronger, but there are gaps. I'm no expert, but I imagine if there are gaps, it doesn't matter how strong the part without gaps next to it are.


``There are gaps in the system,'' Bill Irwin, the Corps' liaison to FEMA, told reporters on a conference call yesterday. ``But the system is stronger and better than ever.''

Areas that flooded during Katrina, such as the Lower Ninth Ward, still aren't fully protected, he said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ageirzaa2AZQ&refer=home

One thing is for sure. They aren't taking any chances. Evacuations and you know FEMA/Feds are prepared.

[Indy]

Prayers to you, dando!

[trish]

Thx, TKG. Suspected MRSA infection of a lymph node in her neck. Seriously scary to watch a 2 year-old go through this, but she's a trooper. :thumbup: Luckily both she and the ol' lady slept through The OSU game today. :D

Back on topic, Gustav is now forecast as a cat 5 storm @ 160 w/in 48 hours. :eek: Plus, Hanna's track has been updated towards the east coast of FL. :(

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRSA

Wash your hands, folks. :(

-KevinPrayers for your baby girl's speedy recovery.

[Stu]

oil below 110 thanks to limited storm damage in the gulf.

[Don Quixote]

Prayers to you, dando! ditto. I hate it when the little ones get sick.

[dando]

oil below 110 thanks to limited storm damage in the gulf.

Closing in on $100 last I read. :thumbup:

Side note: the lil' bugger got released yesterday. She is doing much better. We still need to find out what the bug is/was. They've gone from Cat Scratch to MRSA to Strep over the past 4 days. :saywhat: Next I need to rip the pediatrician who originally diagnosed the neck stiffness as being caused by a cold. :irked: :mad: Perhaps someone was trying to tell us going to Hilton Head this week would be a bad idea:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT08/refresh/AL0808W5+gif/144212W_sm.gif

:eek:

-Kevin

[trish]

Side note: the lil' bugger got released yesterday. She is doing much better. We still need to find out what the bug is/was. They've gone from Cat Scratch to MRSA to Strep over the past 4 days. :saywhat: Next I need to rip the pediatrician who originally diagnosed the neck stiffness as being caused by a cold. :irked: :mad: Perhaps someone was trying to tell us going to Hilton Head this week would be a bad idea:


-KevinCould it have been viral meningitis? My co-worker had it last year and her main symptom seemed to be a stiff neck.

[dando]

Could it have been viral meningitis? My co-worker had it last year and her main symptom seemed to be a stiff neck.

Yeah, we considered that. My aunt's brother died from meningitis many years ago. :( Infected lymph node ruled that out. It's definitely bacterial in this case.

-Kevin

[trish]

Well, I hope she's all better now and this doesn't happen again. I can only imagine what you all have been through.

[Stu]

1.02 hundos per barrell.

[dando]

Dropped to $3.47 last week, but rose to $3.79 and now $3.69 today for 87. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

The national average should be closer to $3/gallon given how much oil has dropped (~30%) since July.

[cameraman]

Unless you live in Utah:flame:

$3.819 for Cheveron regular this morning.

[Ankf00]

'bout the same here. :\

the price drop inference with this correction doesn't really work b/c refiners like Valero were taking it in the ass when crude was so high. guys like Devon, Apache, Annadarko who only do e&p, no refining/gasoline operations were the ones raking it in hand over fist. now the refiners have the chance to get right side-up with their financials

[rocket]

The national average should be closer to $3/gallon given how much oil has dropped (~30%) since July.

Yeah, I just can't figure out how the math works myself. Earlier in the summer as the price of crude and the price of fuel was climbing, it was stated that for every dollar a barrel of crude increased, it is an almost automatic increase of 2.5 cents per gallon of fuel. Between the end of July and now the cost of a barrel has been falling, it's down something like 30 -35 bucks a barrel, so we should be down 80 to 85 cents for a gallon of fuel.
When I went on vacation at the end of July I filled up at 3.99 a gallon for the 87, here we are 6 weeks later and it's at 3.89 for the 87 still.

[Stu]

The national average should be closer to $3/gallon given how much oil has dropped (~30%) since July.

http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=t&Period=6&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

per that chart, last time oil was around 102ish, average prices were around 3.30.

but Ank covered the reasoning.

[Insomniac]

I didn't know all the knitty gritty, but I just recall when all the talk was about gouging, I charted the gas/oil prices and they seemed pretty close to each other in terms of their ups and downs. I just felt that the current national average was a bit on the high side purely based on crude oil pricing.

[chop456]

Up $.14 by my house today. Diesel was unchanged.

[Stu]

prices rose in cleveland the same way dando said.

back down today. actually lower than before. mainly upper 3.40s and lower 3.50s.

[eiregosod]

http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=t&Period=6&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

per that chart, last time oil was around 102ish, average prices were around 3.30.

but Ank covered the reasoning.

It would be nice to see in normalised (price divideded my the absolute maximum achieved) terms, not the cropped and zoom-in graphs .

[dando]

prices rose in cleveland the same way dando said.

back down today. actually lower than before. mainly upper 3.40s and lower 3.50s.

We edged down to $3.61 yesteray, so $.18 is 24 hours from the spike Tues. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

It hasn't moved in a week. Still steady at $3.819 for Chevron regular in SLC.

[Stu]

It would be nice to see in normalised (price divideded my the absolute maximum achieved) terms, not the cropped and zoom-in graphs .

so you gonna do that? :p

[oddlycalm]

We may get some idea of the effect of speculation in the energy markets.

Commodity Futures Trading Commission report due Monday (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/52241.html)

From the end of the article:


Amaranth effectively cornered the natural gas market, driving up prices for U.S. consumers before its spectacular crash resulted in a staggering $6 billion in energy losses.

Once regulators began fearing that Amaranth had concentrated too much investment in trading natural gas contracts, it was ordered to liquidate positions. It did so, but then took similar positions in London on the InterContinental Exchange, or ICE. This market involves electronic trading of similar futures contracts, but until recently it didn't provide real-time, actionable information about trader positions to U.S. regulators.

What Amaranth did was maintain the same overall position, and that allowed its trading to influence the price of natural gas in the U.S. market. Some economists believe that Californians paid as much as 30 percent more to cool their homes in the summer of 2006 because of Amaranth's actions. The fund has since collapsed, and last year the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission fined the company and its managers $291 million.

Shortly after Amaranth's problems, The Wall Street Journal reported that Goldman Sachs & Co., believed by regulators to among the largest swap dealers, snapped up a team of Amaranth traders. Goldman Sachs has been among the most bullish on oil prices, predicting $200-a-barrel oil in the near future.

[Ankf00]

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/09/11/the-death-of-opec.aspx


Saudis walk out of OPEC meeting

[dando]

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/09/11/the-death-of-opec.aspx


Saudis walk out of OPEC meeting

Chavez. :laugh: :shakehead

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080911/wl_nm/russia_venezuela_dc

-Kevin

[Audi_A4]

last night I filled up my wifes car for $1.22 per litre today price jumped to $1.37 per litre

[dando]

Oil drops below $100 today, but I 'll wager we're near $4/gallon again by the end of next week. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[devilmaster]

Already warnings that canadian prices are jumping because of Ike. :saywhat::shakehead

[dando]

Already warnings that canadian prices are jumping because of Ike. :saywhat::shakehead

:saywhat: Y'all are the top exporter to the US. :saywhat:

Damn Canadiatards..... :gomer: Of course, you really aren't in Canadia, just East Detroit. ;) :p

Go Blue & Silver Millens! :)

-Kevin

[tllips]

Oil drops below $100 today, but I 'll wager we're near $4/gallon again by the end of next week. :saywhat:

-Kevin

We already are back near $4 for IKE. $3.89 yesterday, $3.97 today. :irked:

[dando]

We already are back near $4 for IKE. $3.89 yesterday, $3.97 today. :irked:

Yeah, I just ventured out by a ga$ station and it's up to $3.79 here. :saywhat: I'll revise my guesstimate that we might see new highs, which would be ~$4.25 here. :irked:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

Go figure the gas prices just dropped here, $3.819 yesterday, $3.799 today:rolleyes:

[chop456]

RUG up $.25 in the last 2 days. Diesel still unchanged. :saywhat:

[RusH]

Very strange price hike.

Did they have hurricanes in the 80`s and 90`s??? :shakehead

[nissan gtp]

3.49/3.59/3.69 for the range

[cart7]

$3.69 for reg unleaded this morning, if you can find it. No change from yesterday. I had to pay $3.99 to go with Premium since nobody has reg.

[JLMannin]

Very strange price hike.

Did they have hurricanes in the 80`s and 90`s??? :shakehead

Good question. Yes, they did, but they were frequently landing in the Carolinas. Hurricanes have these twenty to thirty year cycles where the tracks change from hitting the Atlantic coast to entering the gulf. In about ten years or so, they will probably be pounding the snot out of Charleston like they did twenty years ago.

[G.]

Yesterday AM $3.84.

Yesterday PM $4.14.

Guess who was running late in the AM and couldn't stop?

:shakehead

[TKGAngel]

I paid $3.82 at the car wash this morning, which was $.01 more than I paid on Wednesday. Driving around town today, I saw prices anywhere from $3.86 to $4.01.

[JLMannin]

$3.83 for RUL this AM, $4.15 this afternoon. I had time to gat gas this morning, fortunately. Last week, It was closer to $3.63.

Through all of this, diesel is unchanged. :shakehead

[trish]

I paid $3.699 for regular today at our new Global station. The cheapest was a Citgo at $3.689.

[Stu]

as the rest of the economy collapses today, oil has dropped to 96 bucks.

[Ankf00]

according to buddy who tracks the financials, morgan stanley's next...

[eiregosod]

according to buddy who tracks the financials, morgan stanley's next...

That just leaves Goldman Sachs, and we know where all their ex-executives now work :rofl:

[Insomniac]

according to buddy who tracks the financials, morgan stanley's next...

As you posted in the other thread, the Fed is asking them to loan AIG money, doesn't seem like they're up next. :)

[Ankf00]

As you posted in the other thread, the Fed is asking them to loan AIG money, doesn't seem like they're up next. :)

Morgan Stanley != JP Morgan Chase


supposedly WaMu Counterparty credit rating now at "junk" w/ S&P, too.

[eiregosod]

Morgan Stanley != JP Morgan Chase


supposedly WaMu Counterparty credit rating now at "junk" w/ S&P, too.

welcome to last week

[Insomniac]

Morgan Stanley != JP Morgan Chase

My mistake. The Fed asked them to help AIG figure out what to do. Not as good as asking them to loan money, but if Morgan Stanley has their own problems, they wouldn't be the best company to have help out.

[Ankf00]

EM's beaumont refinery w/ heavy damage reportedly. 4 of their units in TX & LA down for at least a week.

[Ankf00]

60'ish offshore platforms supposedly down right now. Gustav/Ike could end up being more damaging to gulf petro-biz than Katrina/Rita. Also the real numbers are relatively unknown b/c survey helos are staying nearshore. they dont want to fly out to platforms further out only to end up with a platform to land on and refuel at.

[cameraman]

What so oil companies can't afford to hire a fixed wing aircraft?

[Ankf00]

which takes time since they don't own fleets of planes that they use on a daily basis for servicing these platforms

[dando]

In the meantime, ga$ is $3.41 across the GWB in NJ. It was ~3.81 when I left Cbus yesterday. :saywhat: Oh, and oil closed >$100 today....err, yesterday. :(

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Oil is up over $15/barrel right now.

[Stu]

Oil is up over $15/barrel right now.

over $18 now. it was up over 25 at one point today.

good to see there is confidence in our dollar.