How much is gas where you are?

[Ankf00]

front range lung buster climbs vs. epic western slope flowy slickrock

$4 85 has me preferring lung buster climbs :D

[Napoleon]

High gas prices breaking old pumps.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/nyregion/29pumps.html?ref=business

[Insomniac]

Enron was much smaller scale than global oil and other commodities. Serious, serious, serious buck$ would need to be behind this kind of manipulation. Speculation is far different, which involves betting on highs and lows like stock shorting, etc.

-Kevin

Wait, did you just say what I said? ;) I just wonder if there needs to be more of a look at who the speculators are. Jim Cramer talked about how as a fund manager they could manipulate the markets pretty easily without losing much capital. (They'd make a lot more from the manipulation.)

[dando]

Wait, did you just say what I said? ;) I just wonder if there needs to be more of a look at who the speculators are. Jim Cramer talked about how as a fund manager they could manipulate the markets pretty easily without losing much capital. (They'd make a lot more from the manipulation.)

Like shorting stocks, as l ong as the price remains favorable, you don't lose any $$$...you're basically betting with house money. :irked:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

Until the price becomes unfavorable and you lose everything and more...

[dando]

Until the price becomes unfavorable and you lose everything and more...

Correct. There are so many shenanigans happening in the financial markets these days, you hafta wonder when the house of cards is gonna go boom. :irked:

-Kevin

[dando]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/30/cnoil130.xml


The Commodities Future Trading Commission (CFTC), working closely with other international regulators including the Financial Services Authority in the UK, has begun a series of detailed inquiries over concerns that energy speculators are behind the rising oil price.

Never heard of the CFTC before. About time. :irked:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

Not since the whole silver trading mess a decade or so ago.

[Ankf00]

buy gold :tony:

[dando]

buy gold :tony:

FCOJ. :D

-Kevin

[chop456]

Never heard of the CFTC before. About time. :irked:

-Kevin

I can tell you with the utmost certainty that their tech people don't return e-mails or phone calls. :laugh:

Good luck with the witch hunt, too. :gomer:

[oddlycalm]

Margin requirements in the commodities market requires average only 7% while equities require 50%, so it's possible to control a huge amount of commodities with relatively little capital. If a big hedge fund does this they can certainly move the market. And of course if they get it wrong we'll have to bail them out so that the economy doesn't get deep sixed...:shakehead

It's not just straight commodity trades either, there is a whole derivatives market at work outside the regulatory boundaries that isn't reported on.

All that said though, commodity prices, not just oil, are probably on a long term uptrend as China and India modernize. Some planetologists speculate it would take the resources of five planet earths to support China's entire population at the same standard of living as the US has now, not to mention India, Indonesia, etc.

oc

[Insomniac]

Like shorting stocks, as l ong as the price remains favorable, you don't lose any $$$...you're basically betting with house money. :irked:

-Kevin

That's not house money. At some point you are either right or you have to buy to cover. There's no way out and an unlimited potential loss.

The way I understand what hedge find managers did was they'd buy and sell the stock with themselves. So they'd keep sending 1000 lot orders through the system and move the price. They were willing to pay the price they were selling at. I'm sure some orders were filled outside of that, but for the most part they were pumping false liquidity and price movement into the market. Add to that some of them were well connected at CNBC, they could add rumors that may get on the air.

[Insomniac]

Never heard of the CFTC before. About time. :irked:

Weren't you paying attention after the Bear Sterns collapse? ;)

[Insomniac]

Margin requirements in the commodities market requires average only 7% while equities require 50%, so it's possible to control a huge amount of commodities with relatively little capital. If a big hedge fund does this they can certainly move the market. And of course if they get it wrong we'll have to bail them out so that the economy doesn't get deep sixed...:shakehead

I think they have more than 7% margin. That's not much room to work with! :)


It's not just straight commodity trades either, there is a whole derivatives market at work outside the regulatory boundaries that isn't reported on.

And this is where the SEC/CFTC would fight over who oversees this. And they were always so far behind what was going on. (And still probably are.) Now they may be merging. At least it's proposed they should be.

[dando]

Weren't you paying attention after the Bear Sterns collapse? ;)

Nope. Never followed commodities trading...except in Trading Places. :gomer:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

off-shore hedge fund. $$$ funneled to rebels in Nigeria, Indoensia, Iraq, etc. Pipelines go boom, price goes up.



:tony:

[Insomniac]

Nope. Never followed commodities trading...except in Trading Places. :gomer:

-Kevin

I meant more about what a mess the U.S. Government's regulation is. With multiple agencies claiming to have, and fighting for jurisdiction of stuff. Not that that isn't typical Washington politics, but there was a lot of talk about it at the time. They still haven't done much since then. A memorandum of understanding between the CFTC and SEC is all I've seen. They opened up a giant line of credit (discount window) to all those guys but made no real requirements or conditions for the money (like additional regulations or higher liquidity).

[Insomniac]

off-shore hedge fund. $$$ funneled to rebels in Nigeria, Indoensia, Iraq, etc. Pipelines go boom, price goes up.



:tony:

I don't think it needs to be all that complex.

H.J.Res. 114

[oddlycalm]

I think they have more than 7% margin. That's not much room to work with! :) Backwards. The term "margin requirements" refers to the amount the investor must have on account to secure the trade. In the case of commodity futures it ranges from 5%-7% while on equities it is 50%.

oc

[Insomniac]

Backwards. The term "margin requirements" refers to the amount the investor must have on account to secure the trade. In the case of commodity futures it ranges from 5%-7% while on equities it is 50%.

oc

No, I know what that means. (Edit--Re-reading your post, I think you thought I meant the profit margin, I didn't.) I'm saying that most funds won't operate with that low of a margin. Individual investors may, but a fund would not do that given how much leverage they're playing with and how quickly 5-7% could be nearly, or completely wiped out with less than a dozen bad trades. I know they generally know what they're doing, but even a couple bad trades would incur a margin call. They have to work with more liquidity than the minimum. And if you could hold it overnight with that kind of margin (probably not that low for overnight), you could wake up broke.

[JLMannin]

Driving around town yesterday evening, gas prices had dropped about 10 cents to about 3.91 per gallon.

Oil is not the only commodity getting jacked by market manipulation - hedge funds playing with cocoa prices (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121192457563024139.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

In response to the Enron comments earlier - any trading that results in the appearance of tight supply when actual supply is plentiful is market manipulation in my book. Enron was creating the appearance of network congestion by "moving" power from place to place on paper, justifying the high transport prices on the grid.

[Gnam]

:eek: struth...$4.31 in NorCal

[oddlycalm]

In response to the Enron comments earlier - any trading that results in the appearance of tight supply when actual supply is plentiful is market manipulation in my book. Enron was creating the appearance of network congestion by "moving" power from place to place on paper, justifying the high transport prices on the grid.
Agreed, and the regulators turned a blind eye to that as well. State governments and large companies complained to FERC which took no action in the face of evidence of massive fraud. Prices were never returned to pre-fraud levels.

I'd add that since we've seen systematic gaming of the system in electrical power and mortgages the odds that it is going on in other sectors are significant. Oil supplies have not suddenly contracted nor has demand suddenly doubled.

oc

[Stu]

oil futures are down to below 124 a barrell, price is down almost 10% over the last few weeks. :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Awesome, I can now justify buying a truck.

[KLang]

oil futures are down to below 124 a barrell, price is down almost 10% over the last few weeks. :thumbup:

Hasn't done anything for gas prices. $4.29 for V-Power. :saywhat:

[Stu]

Hasn't done anything for gas prices. $4.29 for V-Power. :saywhat:

well it is a futures market. :shakehead

below $123 now :thumbup:

[cameraman]

well it is a futures market. :shakehead

It is only a "futures" market when the prices are going down, when they are on their way up it is a "this afternoon" market:irked:

[grungex]

Yet the price of gasoline keeps rising... :flame:

[eiregosod]

blast in Kuwait oil facility.

first Kansas, now Kuwait, wherenext ?

[KaBoom21]

Haven't heard those Magnum PI commercials for RVing lately.

[cameraman]

blast in Kuwait oil facility.

Nothing new and nothing out of the ordinary. It is just that nobody has cared to report about minor refinery fires before.

[Cam]

blast in Kuwait oil facility.

first Kansas, now Kuwait, wherenext ?

Trifecta complete. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23806020-1245,00.html) Granted it's NG, not oil, still effects energy supply severely.

[dando]

well it is a futures market. :shakehead

below $123 now :thumbup:

Check again....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080606/oil_prices.html?.v=11

$132. :eek: :saywhat:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

still effects energy supply severely.

Yeah but it is western Australia....

[Sean Malone]

Where is Australia? Is that one of our territories?:confused:

[RusH]

Where is Australia? Is that one of our territories?:confused:

That`s correct.
Except they walk upside down, as a matter a fact... it`s not China that you`d hit if you drilled straight through the earth. From Florida, you`d surface in a the hot inhospitable outback, just like FL.

[Stu]

Check again....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080606/oil_prices.html?.v=11

$132. :eek: :saywhat:

-Kevin

Yep, the Fed and the Federal Government's handing of the dollar is the culprit for this (and pretty much all of) the jump in oil prices.

What a bunch of idiots.

[TKGAngel]

Just saw on CNN that oil is now over $138 per barrel. :eek:

Guess its going to raise those less than $4/gal prices I saw in PA and OH today.

[Insomniac]

Check again....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080606/oil_prices.html?.v=11

$132. :eek: :saywhat:

-Kevin

$139+

[ChampcarShark]

what about lowering the price of gas for a change.

[dando]

Just saw on CNN that oil is now over $138 per barrel. :eek:

Guess its going to raise those less than $4/gal prices I saw in PA and OH today.

Yup. Moved up from $3.80ish to $3.99 today. I filled up yesterday for $3.86 for 89, minus $.50 discount == $3.36.

-Kevin

[cameraman]

Nice, oil up $10.75 and the Dow off 394, jobless rate jumps to 5.5% and the dollar broadly tanked.

Great way to go into a weekend:irked:

[Wally]

A very expensive day for the old retirement accounts for sure....:shakehead

[dando]

So Jim Cramer on NBC tonight sez $150/barrel and $5/gallon by 4-July. Happy Independence Day, y'all. :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

So Jim Cramer on NBC tonight sez $150/barrel and $5/gallon by 4-July. Happy Independence Day, y'all. :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

Not that far off now. Can pretty much expect that to open the flood gates and expectations of speculators.

[cameraman]

I guess I don't watch enough TV, who is Jim Cramer?

[Cam]

I guess I don't watch enough TV, who is Jim Cramer?

PNZF8fW3Y5M

[cameraman]

Huh. Guess I haven't missed much.

[Sean Malone]

Huh. Guess I haven't missed much.

Nope. I honestly thought he was an infomercial 'host'.

[oddlycalm]

I guess I don't watch enough TV, who is Jim Cramer?
He's a former trader at Goldman Sachs whose ability at self promotion exceeds his ability to pick winners. The crazy man act on TV is a recent affectation. Before the TV gig he started TheStreet.com with a partner while he was running a hedge fund at the same time. Probably should have stuck to one or the other because his fund tanked making some wealthy people very angry, and he was relieved of command.

The part I found entertaining is when he blogged his trading day on TheStreet. Kind of like bar stories from someone in a different profession, but some of it was pretty good reading. That was also back when it was free.

oc

[eiregosod]

Trifecta complete. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23806020-1245,00.html) Granted it's NG, not oil, still effects energy supply severely.

there's more than usual sabre rattling in the middle east this week.



for the Faux news viewers, anyone notice that Cavuto changes the subject when any of his guests start to mention the subsidies that US gas companies get?

[WickerBill]

It's rained 10 inches here in Indy in the last twelve hours. I'm now concerned about what kind of MPG I can get from a boat.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=BG&Dato=20080607&Kategori=LOCAL04&Lopenr=80607004&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=360&Q=80&border=0

[nrc]

We were expecting that rain last night and it just stalled over Indiana. I imagine the ground was still fairly saturated from the storms that came through a few days ago. Those flooded Grrl's brother's basement and washed out her mom's driveway culvert.

Hope you're all dry over there.

[extramundane]

It's rained 10 inches here in Indy in the last twelve hours. I'm now concerned about what kind of MPG I can get from a boat.

<hijack>

Anyone know how Lafayette/Monticello-ish fared through all this? Couldn't get the brother on the phone today, and while I'm assuming all's well...

</hijack>

[dando]

It's rained 10 inches here in Indy in the last twelve hours. I'm now concerned about what kind of MPG I can get from a boat.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=BG&Dato=20080607&Kategori=LOCAL04&Lopenr=80607004&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=360&Q=80&border=0

So who's the U-boat commander? ;)

Hope y'all dry out soon. I held off on some house paintinng due to those thorms, but they just fizzled out in Indyanna.

-Kevin

[WickerBill]

The storm decided that it didn't like the looks of I70, and never went north of it -- at least in Indy. It was really strange; it quite literally was a rainshower one mile north of 70 and a deluge one mile south of 70, across the entire city.

So Lafayette... nothing but a summer rain...

[eiregosod]

It's rained 10 inches here in Indy in the last twelve hours. I'm now concerned about what kind of MPG I can get from a boat.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=BG&Dato=20080607&Kategori=LOCAL04&Lopenr=80607004&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=360&Q=80&border=0

I'd gues 0.1 MPG in boat mode. Why would one want to go out in a car in that? oh wait, its Indianner ;)






:runs:

[dando]

It's been hovering in the $3.90s the past week, and as soon as the local news joint mentions that we're below the national average by a dime, the price shoots up to $4.09.9 this AM. :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

I'd gues 0.1 MPG in boat mode. Why would one want to go out in a car in that? oh wait, its Indianner ;)






:runs: Cool, a textbook example of hydrolock. :D

[cameraman]

It's been hovering in the $3.90s the past week, and as soon as the local news joint mentions that we're below the national average by a dime, the price shoots up to $409.99 this AM. :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

Wow, that's like a $406 jump:eek:

[opinionated ow]

well in MAdelaide yesterday, it hit $1.719/L which works out to be $6.19USD/USG!

[dando]

Wow, that's like a $406 jump:eek:

Missed me a decimal. Ooops. :gomer:

-Kevin

[Stu]

It's been hovering in the $3.90s the past week, and as soon as the local news joint mentions that we're below the national average by a dime, the price shoots up to $4.09.9 this AM. :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

I highly doubt that all the gas station owners in your area are stupid enough to not know what the average prices are in the region and nationwide on a daily basis.

[Gnam]

$4.54/gal

Has anyone been pan-handled at the pumps yet?

[Methanolandbrats]

Mid $3.90s for 87 octane, that's what my 2007 low compression Jetta motor uses. Diesel for the Passat is $4.76. I try to feed my cars and lawn equipment straight gas, none of the corn laced crap. Getting harder and harder to find real gas. That's what is in the tank farms, but then ethanol is added before delivery. Since ethanol is an octane booster, my gas guru said refinerys are going to begin refining to lower octane numbers and real gas will be even harder to find. :mad:

[opinionated ow]

Mid $3.90s for 87 octane, that's what my 2007 low compression Jetta motor uses. Diesel for the Passat is $4.76. I try to feed my cars and lawn equipment straight gas, none of the corn laced crap. Getting harder and harder to find real gas. That's what is in the tank farms, but then ethanol is added before delivery. Since ethanol is an octane booster, my gas guru said refinerys are going to begin refining to lower octane numbers and real gas will be even harder to find. :mad:

i'm yet to see convincing proof it is an ethanol booster. It comes with 94/95 octane here as if it is making up for being a crap component....

[cameraman]

Granted I have not looked carefully at the pumps but I believe all the gas around here is just that, gas. Isn't there some kind of a requirement that if they are selling gas/etOH they have to say so on the pump?

[dando]

I highly doubt that all the gas station owners in your area are stupid enough to not know what the average prices are in the region and nationwide on a daily basis.

That was not my point. My point was that coincidentally the price rose the AM they reported that news, yo. The ga$ station owners in my area are all big oil owned. Almost every single small station owner has shut down or have been bought up the past two years. :irked:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

It seems everyone is publishing how to conserve gas articles on driving habits. One of them is always that driving over XX MPH uses much more gas. Obviously more RPMs = more gas, but haven't auomakers adjusted their gearing with the assumption that typical highway speeds aren't 55 MPH? It seems it's probably not nearly as inefficient as it was years ago. (This is also why they should make more smaller engine turbos. You can get more power without increasing fuel consumption.)

[Sean Malone]

It seems everyone is publishing how to conserve gas articles on driving habits. One of them is always that driving over XX MPH uses much more gas. Obviously more RPMs = more gas, but haven't auomakers adjusted their gearing with the assumption that typical highway speeds aren't 55 MPH? It seems it's probably not nearly as inefficient as it was years ago. (This is also why they should make more smaller engine turbos. You can get more power without increasing fuel consumption.)

I was thinking about this myself when my mom said she heard 'they' were considering moving the national highway speed limit back to 55 in the name of fuel conservation.

[Ankf00]

gearing can't kill drag. but f 55mph.

[Andrew Longman]

I think it has to do with increased aero drag higher speeds. It increases exponentially (or something non-linear) with higher speeds, requiring more HP per mph.

Or something like that. Sorry, I was a philosophy major and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

But I also don't think there is an automatic case for dropping the speed limit to 55. Cars are much more aerodynamically efficient now and generally have plenty of extra HP compared to 1979. I think the "optimal" speed could be considerably different. Or, ask me something about Hagel, Hume or Locke, I can handle that.:gomer:

[cameraman]

Gas prices be damned, that 55 mph crap does not fly out here where everything is 200 or 400 miles away.:flame:

[Insomniac]

gearing can't kill drag. but f 55mph.


I think it has to do with increased aero drag higher speeds. It increases exponentially (or something non-linear) with higher speeds, requiring more HP per mph.

Or something like that.

I see. I thought gearing would drop the RPMs, therefore less gas.

[Andrew Longman]

Gas prices be damned, that 55 mph crap does not fly out here where everything is 200 or 400 miles away.:flame:

I don't care where I am. I will drive less, but not slower. :\

[Methanolandbrats]

Don't remember exactly, but over about 30 mph drag is the biggest term and grows at about the square of the speed. Best way to go fast and use less fuel is a car with a low drag coefficient.

[Don Quixote]

Best way to go fast and use less fuel is a car with a low drag coefficient.
So my ol' Dodge 2500 may not be the best? :gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

I see. I thought gearing would drop the RPMs, therefore less gas.

Another change since 79 is back then most cars had 3-4 gear transmission. Now most are 4-6 speeds, including an overdrive, which keeps the engine at a more efficient RPM more of the time.

[dando]

So my ol' Dodge 2500 may not be the best? :gomer:

Better sell dat Xion XB ASAP. ;)

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

Gas prices be damned, that 55 mph crap does not fly out here where everything is 200 or 400 miles away.:flame:
Yeah, laws passed by people living in urban areas, many of whom don't drive, seriously miss the mark for the other 95% of the country. They have no concept of the effect. We've been down that road before and it caused massive resentment in rural areas everywhere, especially in the West.

The folks in those areas are going to be hit hard enough without the government telling them what to do. There was in article in the paper Saturday that claimed sales of scooters and small (under 150cc) motorcycles were up 24% in rural areas of Oregon.

At the price gasoline is today speed and efficiency should be very self-regulating when energy bills arrive every month. Folks flogging a Suburban at 75mph with the AC on are either going to be wealthy or they won't be doing it for long.

oc

[Ankf00]

Don't remember exactly, but over about 30 mph drag is the biggest term and grows at about the square of the speed. Best way to go fast and use less fuel is a car with a low drag coefficient.


this. function of velocity squared

[Indy]

All the vehicles I have owned, including the newer ones, simply become less efficient over 45-50 MPH. The most efficient speed is the one that just keeps you in top gear.

Personally, I like the lower speed limits where there is significant traffic. Most people are not safe at 30, much less 70.

[oddlycalm]

Best way to go fast and use less fuel is a car with a low drag coefficient.
Bingo, even a 4200lb. barge with AWD like our 1999 Audi A6 gets 27mpg all day long on the highway. The secret is the low drag coefficient of 0.28 and the closely spaced top three gear ratios, one of which is overdrive.

To take your point a step further, most of my neighbors have Subaru Outback wagons, a car that also has AWD but is 900lbs lighter than our Audi. We all get the same 27mpg on the highway but the Subaru gets 20mpg in town and the Audi A6 17mpg which shows what a pig the A6 really is.

Our 1989 Taurus SHO had a slightly higher drag coefficient (.30 as I recall) but it was still slippery enough to get 21mpg while going 105mph all day long with the cruise control on when traversing Nevada, which we did several time a year. Any faster and the fuel economy would drop like a stone, but as long as you kept it under 105 it was golden. It got nearly 30mpg at normal highway speeds. Ford subsequently ruined it of course.

oc

[cameraman]

Personally, I like the lower speed limits where there is significant traffic. Most people are not safe at 30, much less 70.

Then I suggest you never attempt to drive in Salt Lake City where the traffic is doing 75 in the right lane.

[cameraman]

most of my neighbors have Subaru Outback wagons, a car that also has AWD but is 900lbs lighter than our Audi. We all get the same 27mpg on the highway but the Subaru gets 20mpg in town

oc

I'd like to get 20 mpg in my 95 Outback. Problem is I:
drive 1.00 miles and get out at the coffee shop then
drive 1.50 miles and stop and get out at day care then
drive 3.44 miles to work and park.

Then I go home at night 5.27 miles, no side trips.

I do that 5 days a week and then the weekends are a bazillion 2 mile shopping trips.

The car rarely runs more than 15 miles without getting shut off. Put it this way it is a 1995 with 131,000 miles on it.

That is not how to optimize your gas mileage, it averages 18 mpg.

And Chevron regular was $4.049 this morning...

[oddlycalm]

I'd like to get 20 mpg in my 95 Outback. Problem is I:
drive 1.00 miles and get out at the coffee shop then
drive 1.50 miles and stop and get out at day care then
drive 3.44 miles to work and park.

Then I go home at night 5.27 miles, no side trips.

I do that 5 days a week and then the weekends are a bazillion 2 mile shopping trips.
Yep, you don't get city performace with such short trips. I know exactly how that is. Our world is even smaller, we rarely go more than 20 blocks for anything. An electric car, or a plug-in hybrid, would a perfect 2nd car for running around in. We could drag out the gas-burner convertible when we were actually going somewhere, or on nice days.

Once my mom passed and we weren't making the long trips to AZ, and now that we've moved into town, our Audi is surplus and sits parked most of the time. Would have been gone before now if someone offered the car I want for sale. We'll probably end up with a Mini as I don't seen any plug-in electrics being offered in a reasonable time frame. No gasoline engine car is good for 10 minute trips because the engine never gets warm, so neither does the heater...:irked:

oc

[Andrew Longman]

My typical trip in my Acura TL is less than 10-15 miles one way on twisty 2 lane blacktop at 50-60 mph. And I am not kind; brake late, have fun.

When I do long distance on the interstate at about 80mph I get the same 27-30 mpg tank load after tank load.

Driving 55 on the interstate will only piss me off.

Driving 55 even on the local interstate will likely get me killed. Think running Talladega 60 laps down with a crash damaged rattletrap 30 mph off the pace. I remember when it was 55 and the NJSP would not enforce anything under 70. Now they don't enforce anything under 80+. (unless you are a minority... or really cute and they just want your number -- I have a friend who is a trooper)

[Sean Malone]

My motorcycle only gets 38mpg highway no matter how conservative I ride. 55mph would be ridiculous. I'm doing 55 when I shift into 3rd just casually cruising.

[Indy]

Then I suggest you never attempt to drive in Salt Lake City where the traffic is doing 75 in the right lane.

I didn't say I drive that slowly. It is the same deal here. But I drive around all day, and given the utter stupidity of the average driver, I am not liking my odds.

What is really irritating is the the Indiana state troopers handing out tickets at random for keeping up with traffic. I got one for doing 70 on I-465, our urban loop. I was just going with the flow and happened to be the unlucky target. :mad:

[Ankf00]

Houston tried that **** a few years back with a new "Traffic Enforcement" division. That **** didn't go over too well. That **** ended quick.

Didn't help that they were running pretense stops in all the affluent 'burbs. Well off folk dont like getting profiled like the po' folk :gomer: :laugh:

[chop456]

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM) today unveiled the Precept advanced class vehicle, in both hybrid and fuel cell powered forms, at the North American International Auto Show at Detroit's Cobo Center. The Precept is the latest demonstration of GM's capability and commitment to building vehicles that will ultimately help to remove the automobile from the environmental debate.

The Precept is an example of the type of ultra-high-efficiency architecture that GM is developing on its way toward putting millions of environmentally friendly vehicles on the road. The key to GM's advanced vehicles strategy is to focus on a number of options for clean transportation solutions, not just one.

The parallel-hybrid Precept uses the most aerodynamically efficient design in the world, with a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.163, 20 percent less aerodynamic drag than the production record-holder, the GM EV1 (0.19). Its four-wheel drive, dual-axle set-up features a 35kW three-phase electric motor driving the front wheels and a lean-burn compression-ignition, direct-injection (CIDI) heat engine driving the rear wheels.

Oh yeah...


January 1, 2000 - REUTERS

:gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

Global demand is driving oil prices higher. Global supply and demand sets prices. Even if 55 is passed in the USA, it won't lower prices. I wonder how pissed people will be when they arrive at their destination an hour later and fill up at the same price per gallon? :rofl:

on topic 100% pure 87 RUG is $4.09
87 octane polluted with corn squeezins is about $3.98

[dando]

I remember when it was 55 and the NJSP would not enforce anything under 70. Now they don't enforce anything under 80+. (unless you are a minority... or really cute and they just want your number -- I have a friend who is a trooper)

Must be like dat in your 'hood. The NJSPtards are thick b/w Philly and the Jersey shore in the summer. :irked: Drive to OCNJ one month away and counting.... :yuck:

-Kevin

[grungex]

What is really irritating is the the Indiana state troopers handing out tickets at random for keeping up with traffic. I got one for doing 70 on I-465, our urban loop. I was just going with the flow and happened to be the unlucky target. :mad:

Maybe he's not a Doobie Brothers fan... :p

[JLMannin]

My policy regarding speed is drive whater speed is required so that I can stay out of the left most lane and not be a rolling chicane. Usually, it is 10 to 25 mpm over the posted speed limit. I stay out of the left most lane, as that is where the real aggressive, assinine, light-flashing, tailgating a-holes drive, and I make it a policy to stay the hell out of theit way and give the cops clear radar shots on them. And if you take offence at this, I am not sorry.

BTW, gas was 4.199 for regular this AM in Indy.

[dando]

T. Boone Pickens energy plan. (http://www.pickensplan.com/) :thumbup:

The site is getting hammered since he's running TV ads on the plan now. Clearly this is the top priority to address in the coming decade. IMO, this is the space race of the new century.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus9-2008jul09,0,7890733.column


The so-called Pickens Plan would first entail a hefty investment -- more than $1 trillion -- in wind farms on an unusually breezy stretch of countryside extending from Texas to North Dakota.

The wind power would replace the natural gas now used by power plants to generate electricity. The country currently gets about 22% of its juice from natural gas.

All that freed-up natural gas, in turn, would be applied to fueling millions of vehicles that now run on gasoline but would be converted -- it's not clear how, or on whose dime -- to run instead on compressed natural gas.

I couldn't reach Pickens to ask him these questions. But he told the Associated Press that he wasn't guided by personal gain. "I'm doing it for America," he said.

Well, that's heartening. But the fact remains that he and his business partners are investing an estimated $12 billion to build the world's largest wind farm in Texas. That facility, needless to say, would play a pivotal role in meeting the nation's newfound demand for wind power.

Meanwhile, Pickens' more-than-$4-billion hedge fund, BP Capital, is invested in a variety of natural gas companies. He also sits on the board of Clean Energy Fuels Corp., North America's largest provider of vehicular natural gas.

-Kevin

[Gnam]

Down a nickel to $4.49 for regular. Must be the eye of the storm. :p

[dando]

Down a nickel to $4.49 for regular. Must be the eye of the storm. :p

:eek: We're fortunate to be down to ~$3.88 then. The wife's truck took $75 yesterday and that was with a $.30 Kroger di$count. :saywhat: I can't wait for the trip to OCNJ next month...I full expect $100 fill-ups on the PA turnpike. :irked:

-Kevin