push to pass coming to f1?

[rosawendel]

from speed (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/18144/)

[Cam]

from speed (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/18144/)

What a crock! AXE Max......... Not an original thought in his creaky old fart body..... :rolleyes: GO AWAY MAX!

[Insomniac]

That's an interesting way to do it. Maybe residual technology will come down to hybrid cars, which is a good thing. If they do this. However, the best way to get more on track passing is aerodynamics. They're great for running by yourself, but too disruptive to cars behind them. It seems they can't find a way to stick the front when following a car. Until they do that, they can do everything they want, the passing won't return to the days of old.

[oddlycalm]

the best way to get more on track passing is aerodynamics. They're great for running by yourself, but too disruptive to cars behind them. It seems they can't find a way to stick the front when following a car. Until they do that, they can do everything they want, the passing won't return to the days of old. Exactly right. What good is an extra 50hp if you can't get close enough to use it?

oc

[cameraman]

That is a pretty wild concept. A booster motor attached to the crankshaft. You would have to have a clutch of some kind and wouldn't that electric motor have to instantly spin up to the 20,000+ rpm to match the engine? Storing the electricity without a thousand pounds of batteries would also be a neat trick.

[jonovision_man]

I'm having a few discussions at the moment trying to sort it out...

But apparantly the electric engines are best for acclerating at low speeds due to generating a lot of torque as opposed to adding much at high speeds. Suggests this would be more useful coming out of the corner than at the end of a straight, which wouldn't add any passing at all.

In fact with the trouble guys have had following through corners, it could make it worse, as the guy in front with full downforce fires away as the guy behind struggles for grip. No draft down the straight, no pass.

I'm not sure yet if this is accurate, just a theory I'm assembling through bits and pieces I've picked up on various boards.

jono

[Insomniac]

Exactly right. What good is an extra 50hp if you can't get close enough to use it?

oc

On a semi-related note, since Ferrari isn't going to be starting up front any time soon, they should be changing their aerodynamics to get close enough to pass a car in front of them. Probably leave them open to being caught when in front, but then they could try to pass back. Imagine that concept? :)

And I still can't believe no one has figured out the Renault starting/launching trick. What better time to gain track position?

[Dr. Corkski]

Well they already are in Shanghai. It's only a matter of time before they implement another figment of MarkC's imagination. :gomer:

[Mike Kellner]

I bet it would be lighter and simpler to use nitrous and limit the bottle size.

The real answer is to return to wider slick tires, unrestricted undertrays, and smaller wings, while reducing engine size to keep speeds sub-orbital. Oh, and get rid of all the chicanes so they have longer straights.

mk

[devilmaster]

This isn't surprising, i guess.

I believe most f1 guys still watch Champcar on sunday nights, especially now that Eurosport shows the races live.

The pass Justin Wilson made on Servia, using up all of his remaining p2p to do it (he had something like 29 secs), pretty much validated the p2p concept.

Not speaking on the technical side, but the rules side of it - I kinda like the concept that you'll always have p2p, but for only limited bursts. 5 seconds max of p2p really isn't anything. You need at least 10 secs minimum to make it worth your while.

But to be honest, p2p really isn't for F1. When races finish in F1, drivers of different teams are sometimes split 10 to 20 seconds apart from each other. p2p isn't going to solve that. p2p works in CC because its a spec series, the top rung teams are more likely to be only a second or two off each other. And remember, p2p is really only here as a stop gap measure because of poor aerodynamics for cars following other cars. They'll keep it with the new car design, but thats what p2p was for.

p2p in F1 would only be exciting if Rubens decided to go against team orders every race and pass Schuey.

[Insomniac]

p2p in F1 would only be exciting if Rubens decided to go against team orders every race and pass Schuey.

What was up with Silvestone? They pull RB out of 4th so MS can get more points? Not really helping the constructor's championship. I guess all they want is the WDC.

[oddlycalm]

The real answer is to return to wider slick tires, unrestricted undertrays, and smaller wings, while reducing engine size to keep speeds sub-orbital. Sounds like you may get your way. Max has proposed totally overhauling the aero rules for 2008 with strict downforce limits (10% of current) and changing the emphasis to lowering aero drag instead.

Also, after the first test session the new V8's sound like they are well down on power from the current spec engines. Times are 3 seconds off the pace of the current engines. Panis said "You just expect more power to come after a while. First and second [gears] it is okay but after that there is no more"

oc

[Mike Kellner]

I don't think restricting downforce will improve overtaking. They have been doing that for 25 years, and it hasn't worked yet. Re-read what I said. Unrestricted undertrays and smaller wings. It is my belief that undertrays are affected by turbulence far less than wings, and they need to move the downforce back under the car. I would like to have most of the downforce generated by real venturi tunnels, with single plane wings that were mostly large trim tabs.

JMO: The new Max rules are reason enough for the GPWC all in themselves. Sounded like Formula CrapWagon to me.

mk

[Insomniac]

I don't think restricting downforce will improve overtaking. They have been doing that for 25 years, and it hasn't worked yet. Re-read what I said. Unrestricted undertrays and smaller wings. It is my belief that undertrays are affected by turbulence far less than wings, and they need to move the downforce back under the car. I would like to have most of the downforce generated by real venturi tunnels, with single plane wings that were mostly large trim tabs.

JMO: The new Max rules are reason enough for the GPWC all in themselves. Sounded like Formula CrapWagon to me.

mk

I agree with you. I would much rather see the aero focus on getting air forced under the car rather than over wings and all the little aero bits. Back to ground effects!

[trauma1]

well the gomers in earl arn't going to like this quote

Pat's Toyota counterpart Mike Gascoyne, though, reckons overtaking is not necessarily the be-all-and-end-all of racing. ''You don't want artificial overtaking,'' he said, citing the example of the overtaking-mad Indy Racing League.

The Briton remarked: ''In the first race, everyone thought it was fantastic, but five races later they had to change it. There's no easy solution.''